We moved into a house last year that has propane heat and it costs much
more to heat than our previous house which had a heat pump. Last year we
added 8 inches of insulation to the attic which has made a dramatic
reduction in our heating and cooling bills, but it still costs more to
heat than when we had a heat pump.

The house was built in 1960 and only had about 2" of insulation in the
attic when we moved in. The windows were replaced with double paned
insulated windows, we have weatherstripped all the doors, the ducts are
insulated and we have no detectable drafts. There are no vapor barriers to
speak of. I have no idea how much insulation is in the walls; I wouldn't
expect much based on the attic, but I don't forsee pumping insulation into
the walls.

I contacted a heating contractor who suggests that it would be very
expensive to switch over to a heat pump and that we should wait until we
need a new unit (ours is only about 2 years old).

I'm wondering if I might actually save money by installing baseboard
heaters in the bedrooms and use them on cold nights so we can leave the
thermostat turned down. We are in the mid-Atlantic (Carolinas) so weather
is usually mild with the occasional cold streak. Thoughts?
--
Mac Cool

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
We moved into a house last year that has propane heat and it costs much
more to heat than our previous house which had a heat pump. Last year we
added 8 inches of insulation to the attic which has made a dramatic
reduction in our heating and cooling bills, but it still costs more to
heat than when we had a heat pump.

The house was built in 1960 and only had about 2" of insulation in the
attic when we moved in. The windows were replaced with double paned
insulated windows, we have weatherstripped all the doors, the ducts are
insulated and we have no detectable drafts. There are no vapor barriers to
speak of. I have no idea how much insulation is in the walls; I wouldn't
expect much based on the attic, but I don't forsee pumping insulation into
the walls.

I contacted a heating contractor who suggests that it would be very
expensive to switch over to a heat pump and that we should wait until we
need a new unit (ours is only about 2 years old).

I'm wondering if I might actually save money by installing baseboard
heaters in the bedrooms and use them on cold nights so we can leave the
thermostat turned down. We are in the mid-Atlantic (Carolinas) so weather
is usually mild with the occasional cold streak. Thoughts?
--
Mac Cool

Maybe. Electric heat can be cheaper than propane. Very possible with area
heating only like you are talking about.

How much are you paying per KWH?

Just look at an old bill or call the utility company.

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...

I'm wondering if I might actually save money by installing baseboard
heaters in the bedrooms and use them on cold nights so we can leave the
thermostat turned down. We are in the mid-Atlantic (Carolinas) so weather
is usually mild with the occasional cold streak. Thoughts?
--
Mac Cool

Depends on the cost of power and how much heat you will be running. My
house has two zones of heat. Still, there are a couple of rooms that are
rarely used and they get almost as much heat as the rest of the house. If
they were electric, they could be shut off completely. If you modestly heat
one or two bedrooms, you may have some saving. Keep in mind, there is still
the cost of bringing up the heat in the morning for the entire house.

A couple of years ago I experimented by using a space heater in one room
that we were using to keep the rest of the house cooler and saving oil. It
was still more in electric cost than the saving in oil. Propane is more
costly than oil so you may have a chance of breaking even or savings if you
have cheap electric.

Do some energy comparisons first.
1000 Watts (1kW) = 3412 Btu
1 therm = 100,000 Btu

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Mac Cool" wrote in message

I'm wondering if I might actually save money by installing baseboard
heaters...

Depends on the cost of power...

Power is often free :-) We pay for energy.

Do some energy comparisons first.
1000 Watts (1kW) = 3412 Btu

Nonono. That's comparing power and energy, like miles per hour and miles,
or apples and oranges. Energy is power (a rate of energy use) times time:

1000 watt-hours (1kWh) = 3412 Btu

Nick

"Nick Pine" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Mac Cool" wrote in message

I'm wondering if I might actually save money by installing baseboard
heaters...

Depends on the cost of power...

Power is often free :-) We pay for energy.

Do some energy comparisons first.
1000 Watts (1kW) = 3412 Btu

Nonono. That's comparing power and energy, like miles per hour and miles,
or apples and oranges. Energy is power (a rate of energy use) times time:

1000 watt-hours (1kWh) = 3412 Btu

Nick

I think I said 3412 Btu. Most electric bills show watt-hours used for
comparison. OK, it is a technicality but if you use the kW rate on the bill
it comes out the same.

A blower door test will identify areas that leak.

Electricity is probably double or more the cost of propane so you may
not save but loose.

10" or r35 is not optimal for attic insulation r 60 is, heat rises so
consider upping it more.

Cellular window shades will help they have an r 3 rating, some more.

Why not zone your system

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Do some energy comparisons first.
1000 Watts (1kW) = 3412 Btu
***power*** ***energy***

Nonono. That's comparing power and energy, like miles per hour and miles,
or apples and oranges. Energy is power (a rate of energy use) times time:

I think I said 3412 Btu. Most electric bills show watt-hours used for
comparison. OK, it is a technicality but if you use the kW rate on the bill
it comes out the same.

Power and energy are different.

Nick

It's a snap to save energy in this country. As soon as more people
become involved in the basic math of heat transfer and get a gut-level,
as well as intellectual, grasp on how a house works, solution after
solution will appear.
Tom Smith, 1980

wrote in message

Power and energy are different.

No ****. Rather than pick nits over the way I expressed accurate
information that could be use to do the calculations, why not add something
of substance that the OP can use to make a decision. Oh, I see why. You are
posting from a EDU account. Lots of education, low on practicality.

Colbyt:
Maybe. Electric heat can be cheaper than propane. Very possible with
area heating only like you are talking about.

How much are you paying per KWH?

8.1¢ KWH

Propane runs about $1.50 in summer/ $2.00 in winter. Depending on the
weather I may use 2-3, 500 gallon tanks per winter. Last year was cold and
we used ~2.5 tanks, but we added 8" of insulation in the spring so I
expect to use less this year.
--
Mac Cool

Edwin Pawlowski:

Do some energy comparisons first.
1000 Watts (1kW) = 3412 Btu
1 therm = 100,000 Btu

I found a website that states there are 26.85 kilowatt hours of electric
energy in one gallon of propane, so if I multiply the cost of electricity
by 26.85, it should give me the equivalent cost of electricity vs propane.

I suppose the efficiency of the central unit plays a factor... the
baseboard heaters would be 100% efficient I believe, I don't know the
efficiency of the central unit but if we use 80%...

26.85 * $.081 KWH = $2.17 (electric)
wintertime propane cost + inefficiency** = ~$2.40 gal.
summertime propane cost + inefficiency** = ~$1.80 gal.
average propane effective cost = $2.20 gal.

If this is right then it's roughly a wash. Sound right?
--
Mac Cool

** I assumed $0.20 of each dollar spent on propane is wasted, so I added
20% to the price.

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski:

Do some energy comparisons first.
1000 Watts (1kW) = 3412 Btu
1 therm = 100,000 Btu

I found a website that states there are 26.85 kilowatt hours of electric
energy in one gallon of propane, so if I multiply the cost of electricity
by 26.85, it should give me the equivalent cost of electricity vs propane.

I suppose the efficiency of the central unit plays a factor... the
baseboard heaters would be 100% efficient I believe, I don't know the
efficiency of the central unit but if we use 80%...

26.85 * $.081 KWH = $2.17 (electric)
wintertime propane cost + inefficiency** = ~$2.40 gal.
summertime propane cost + inefficiency** = ~$1.80 gal.
average propane effective cost = $2.20 gal.

If this is right then it's roughly a wash. Sound right?
--
Mac Cool

** I assumed $0.20 of each dollar spent on propane is wasted, so I added
20% to the price.

That math would be close if you always manage to start the cool weather with
a full tank bought at summer prices and only refill it once at winter
prices.

Unless you have a fairly new furnace (less than 12 years old) you aren't
getting 80%. It would be 70% or less down to about 50% for a really old
unit.

Around here KWH price is about .06 and the claim is made and not disputed
that electric is far cheaper than propane.

You still have to factor in the smaller area heating only aspect. We
utilize setback thermostats and have the upper and lower levels set to be
warm when we are in them and at home with an 8 degree backset when we aren't
or when we are in bed. In bed we use the smallest electric heater, an
electric mattress pad.


Colbyt

Colbyt:

26.85 * $.081 KWH = $2.17 (electric)
average propane effective cost = $2.20 gal.

That math would be close if you always manage to start the cool
weather with a full tank bought at summer prices and only refill it
once at winter prices.

I can only guess. This is our first winter with insulation. I filled the
tank this summer when the prices were down but we are already down to
25% with Jan-Feb left.

Unless you have a fairly new furnace (less than 12 years old) you
aren't getting 80%. It would be 70% or less down to about 50% for a
really old unit.

Ours is about 3 years old. I have no idea of the specs. We have a
neighbor who owns an HVAC business and he installed it.

Around here KWH price is about .06 and the claim is made and not
disputed that electric is far cheaper than propane.

Most people tell me that a heat pump is much cheaper but the HVAC guy
claims that it wouldn't be cost effective to change over, I'm not really
sure why. Natural gas is about 1/2 the price of propane but the gas
company won't bring the pipe down our street. They stopped two blocks
away and have no plans to continue.

You still have to factor in the smaller area heating only aspect. We
utilize setback thermostats and have the upper and lower levels set
to be warm when we are in them and at home with an 8 degree backset
when we aren't or when we are in bed. In bed we use the smallest
electric heater, an electric mattress pad.

We used electric blankets as kids, turned the heat down at night and
turned the blanket on, but you don't see those blankets anymore. Bad rep
maybe.
--
Mac Cool