We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

hvsteve wrote:
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


I don't know what the "decontamination and sealing the walls" is
supposed to be. You need to remove the wet drywall and insulation, and
dry everything out, then repair the damage. The mold will die out if
you can get it dry.

The LP's should be fine. Wash them with soap and warm water, rinse, and
rinse again with distilled (or deionized or reverse osmosis) water.

Bob

hvsteve wrote:

We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

I don't think anyone on here can judge whether that is a fair price
without seeing the scope of the job. But...if the 23K were coming
out of *my* pocket, I would have *my* atty writing the contract, not
theirs.

It would cover in detail the scope of work and standards of mtl
and workmanship. Stipulate contractor's insurance coverages.
Completion date with penalties. And a guarantee of mold remediation,
including after-completion mold testing. Mold still present
at "X" level, no payment.

State whether contractor is responsible for city permits/inspection
and completion to Code requirements.

23K is a lot of money if they are going to be there like 1 week
and just slap a pickup truck load of drywall on.

Jim

The basement is about 50 by 30. The estimator says the black mold on
the wallboard is the toxic type. I don't recall the scientific name.
The wallboard is black about a third of the way up. There is also mold
in a number of places around the basement.There are shelves of things
that were stored down there. He claims anything we want to keep has to
be cleaned and wood or paper items should just go. The previous owner
built a room in the basement and,rather than replace the walls,flooring
and,possibly studs,I would as soon tear it out and use the space for
other things. He says the cinder block,painted walls show water damage
and should be cleaned and have sealer,not waterproofing,sprayed on
them. He made a big deal out of the process of bagging and removing
everything so as not to spread the mold. The flood happened earlier
this year but I did not put in an insurance claim as I figured I would
collect for cleanup only and don't like to have a record as a
"problem". Now,with the mold,I have contacted the claims department and
am waiting to hear if they are going to send an adjuster. With the
amount of money involved,I may also spring for a service that does mold
and water damage inspections but not repairs.

hvsteve wrote:
The basement is about 50 by 30. The estimator says the black mold on
the wallboard is the toxic type. I don't recall the scientific name.
The wallboard is black about a third of the way up. There is also mold
in a number of places around the basement.There are shelves of things
that were stored down there. He claims anything we want to keep has to
be cleaned and wood or paper items should just go. The previous owner
built a room in the basement and,rather than replace the walls,flooring
and,possibly studs,I would as soon tear it out and use the space for
other things. He says the cinder block,painted walls show water damage
and should be cleaned and have sealer,not waterproofing,sprayed on
them. He made a big deal out of the process of bagging and removing
everything so as not to spread the mold. The flood happened earlier
this year but I did not put in an insurance claim as I figured I would
collect for cleanup only and don't like to have a record as a
"problem". Now,with the mold,I have contacted the claims department and
am waiting to hear if they are going to send an adjuster. With the
amount of money involved,I may also spring for a service that does mold
and water damage inspections but not repairs.



Sounds like a rip-off price wise, although I'm not expert. Some of these
folks like to play up words like mold and asbestos and they figure
you'll pay anything to be safe....

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear out
ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing paint
on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
ups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear out
ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing paint
on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba

hvsteve wrote:
The basement is about 50 by 30. The estimator says the black mold on
the wallboard is the toxic type. I don't recall the scientific name.
The wallboard is black about a third of the way up. There is also mold
in a number of places around the basement.There are shelves of things
that were stored down there. He claims anything we want to keep has to
be cleaned and wood or paper items should just go. The previous owner
built a room in the basement and,rather than replace the
walls,flooring and,possibly studs,I would as soon tear it out and use
the space for other things. He says the cinder block,painted walls
show water damage and should be cleaned and have sealer,not
waterproofing,sprayed on them. He made a big deal out of the process
of bagging and removing everything so as not to spread the mold. The
flood happened earlier this year but I did not put in an insurance
claim as I figured I would collect for cleanup only and don't like to
have a record as a "problem". Now,with the mold,I have contacted the
claims department and am waiting to hear if they are going to send an
adjuster. With the amount of money involved,I may also spring for a
service that does mold and water damage inspections but not repairs.

While I would not be certain that they told you true about the kind of
mold it is possible that it may be dangerous. I suspect you are going to
have a problem selling the house any time in the future if you don't have
the problem professionally corrected. The insurance company should help
you verify the first report.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

observer wrote:
Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money.
tear out ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls
need sealing paint on some of that concete sealer crap and your good
to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
ups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we
have a serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we
agreed that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up.
For a clean up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking
at $23,000. Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down
there. I have a large record collection and realize the cardboard
jackets,though looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl
records inside also a lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

Be equally weary of both the contractor trying to sell you mold control
and the Buba who tells you that it is nothing and just pretend that mold can
not be a serious threat. The truth is somewhere between.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear
out
ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing
paint
on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba
so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry air
won't stop it from growing?

hvsteve wrote:

The basement is about 50 by 30. The estimator says the black mold on
the wallboard is the toxic type. I don't recall the scientific name.

"Stachybotrys" Here is some information about it:
http://gcrc.meds.cwru.edu/stachy/def...AND%20OUTBREAK

The wallboard is black about a third of the way up. There is also mold
in a number of places around the basement.There are shelves of things
that were stored down there. He claims anything we want to keep has to
be cleaned and wood or paper items should just go. The previous owner
built a room in the basement and,rather than replace the walls,flooring
and,possibly studs,I would as soon tear it out and use the space for
other things. He says the cinder block,painted walls show water damage
and should be cleaned and have sealer,not waterproofing,sprayed on
them. He made a big deal out of the process of bagging and removing
everything so as not to spread the mold. The flood happened earlier
this year but I did not put in an insurance claim as I figured I would
collect for cleanup only and don't like to have a record as a
"problem". Now,with the mold,I have contacted the claims department and
am waiting to hear if they are going to send an adjuster. With the
amount of money involved,I may also spring for a service that does mold
and water damage inspections but not repairs.


If it were me, I would wear a respirator and goggles, rent a dumpster
and a dehumidifier, and clean it up myself.

Bob

observer wrote:
"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money.
tear out ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls
need sealing paint on some of that concete sealer crap and your
good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
ups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The
water was there for a day or two before being discovered. We
cleaned up and threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have
gone by and we have a serious mold problem. We just had a
specialist come in and we agreed that he drywall has to be removed
and the place cleaned up. For a clean up,decontamination and
sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000. Does this seem out of
sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down
there. I have a large record collection and realize the cardboard
jackets,though looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl
records inside also a lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba
so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry
air won't stop it from growing?

Clorox is not likely to kill all of it and it only takes one spore to
get it going again. Fresh dry air may slow it down, but I would not bet my
life on it stopping it.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:00 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


"Bubba" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear
out
ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing
paint
on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba

so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry air
won't stop it from growing?

Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL you.
Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air changes.
Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have the same
nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery Ventilators)
and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so popular and
being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change the air in
the home.
Bubba

Your home owner's insurance should cover just about all of your expenses and
usually will pay the "restoration company" what ever their bill is minus
your deductible. Why is that not the way to go in your case? $23,000 in
not out of line--taking to someone that went through this process.
MLD
"hvsteve" wrote in message
ups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

Bubba wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:00 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


"Bubba" wrote in message
. ..

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear

out

ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing

paint

on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
egroups.com...

We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba


so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry air
won't stop it from growing?


Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL you.
Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air changes.
Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have the same
nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery Ventilators)
and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so popular and
being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change the air in
the home.
Bubba



Bubba, please post some news links of people who have perished from mold.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
ups.com...
I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


JUST-- WHATEVER YOU DO---DON'T PUT THEM IN THE DISHWASHER!!!!!!!!

Bubba wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:00 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

snip

so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry air
won't stop it from growing?


Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL you.
Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air changes.
Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have the same
nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery Ventilators)
and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so popular and
being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change the air in
the home.
Bubba

I was under the impression the OP got mold in his basement was because
of a flood? How can mold continue to grow once the moisture is gone?
Your logic seems to be that a simple spore got into his house and grew.
Hmph...

If one has a leaky roof, and the drywall ceiling is damaged, gets mold,
the roof is fixed, and the damaged drywall replaced, how can the mold
come back?

--Mike

Mike Fritz wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:00 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

snip

so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry
air won't stop it from growing?


Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL
you. Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air
changes. Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have
the same nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery
Ventilators) and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so
popular and being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change
the air in the home.
Bubba

I was under the impression the OP got mold in his basement was because
of a flood? How can mold continue to grow once the moisture is gone?
Your logic seems to be that a simple spore got into his house and
grew. Hmph...

If one has a leaky roof, and the drywall ceiling is damaged, gets
mold, the roof is fixed, and the damaged drywall replaced, how can
the mold come back?

--Mike

Once it gets a good hold and spores all over the place it is difficult
to get rid of. It does not take much moisture to get it going again.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Rob Gray wrote:
Bubba wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:00 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


"Bubba" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money.
tear

out

ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need
sealing

paint

on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
ups.com...

We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot
water into our basement. The place was filled with stored items.
The water was there for a day or two before being discovered. We
cleaned up and threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have
gone by and we have a serious mold problem. We just had a
specialist come in and we agreed that he drywall has to be
removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean up,decontamination
and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000. Does this seem
out of sight? We also realize we have to throw out most of what is
left down
there. I have a large record collection and realize the
cardboard jackets,though looking fine,probably have to go. Are
the vinyl records inside also a lost cause,or can they be
cleaned?

You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can
be deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it
right. You have no idea what is at the original posters home and
the degree of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the
greatest deal on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest
clue without being there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why
you get estimates. Clorox and sealing paint............God what a
retard. Bubba


so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry
air won't stop it from growing?


Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL
you. Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air
changes. Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have
the same nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery
Ventilators) and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so
popular and being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change
the air in the home.
Bubba



Bubba, please post some news links of people who have perished from
mold.

Here are some lawyers looking for work on wrongful death by mold

http://www.apersonalinjurylawyersour...oxic_mold.html

On the other side here is a report in the Official OSU newspaper

http://www.thelantern.com/news/2004/...d-596812.shtml

Personally I am open to both arguments, but I am not convinced by
either. So I will suggest that molds can cause illnesses and certainly can
create serious problems for anyone selling a home that had mold problems
which have not been professionally handled.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:45:56 GMT, Joseph Meehan
wrote:

snipped out long prelude


so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry
air won't stop it from growing?


Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL
you. Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air
changes. Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have
the same nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery
Ventilators) and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so
popular and being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change
the air in the home.
Bubba



Bubba, please post some news links of people who have perished from
mold.

Here are some lawyers looking for work on wrongful death by mold

http://www.apersonalinjurylawyersour...oxic_mold.html

On the other side here is a report in the Official OSU newspaper

http://www.thelantern.com/news/2004/...d-596812.shtml

Personally I am open to both arguments, but I am not convinced by
either. So I will suggest that molds can cause illnesses and certainly
can
create serious problems for anyone selling a home that had mold problems
which have not been professionally handled.



The U.S. EPA has a website specifically on mold without the hype:
http://www.epa.gov/mold/

Here is the key quotation:
"There is no practical way to eliminate all mold and mold spores in the
indoor environment; the way to control indoor mold growth is to control
moisture"

They have extensive resources there that answer many of the questions
flying around this discussion.

Many people are sensitive to mold spores because of allergies. I'm sure
someone, somewhere has died from mold exposure. Likewise, I'm sure
someone, somewhere has died due to ragweed allergies or cat dander. The
current scare tactics being used to sell mold remediation services
overplay the dangers to the vast majority of the population so that the
lawyers and contractors can make a quick $$$. If mold were going to kill
the OP and his family, it would have done so already. There's probably
billions of spores floating around that they've breathed just by being
around it.

Not to say I'd be cavalier around it. I would wear a good respirator, some
rubber gloves, provide lots of veintillation, and remove all visible signs
of mold. Toss all that wet and moldy garbage. As someone else noted,
bleach is an excellent biocide. Very few organisms can survive when
sprayed with bleach.

There's a bunch of scare sites out there that say "bleach ineffective at
killing mold". They indicate this problem because it won't penetrate
porous surfaces.

Then there's:
http://www.medicalnewsservice.com/ARCHIVE/MNS2197.cfm

key quotation:
"The study results confirm that denaturing the mold spores with a dilute
chlorine bleach solution appears to be the most effective and efficient
way to reduce mold allergen on hard surfaces."

As other posters have indicated, kill the surface mold and get rid of the
moisture problem. Mold can't grow in the wrong (i.e. dry) environment. If
you want to kill it deep into the surfaces, get one of the mold killing
agents sold for that purpose.

good luck. Let us know your progress.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:33:38 GMT, Rob Gray wrote:

Bubba wrote:
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:16:00 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


"Bubba" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:


Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear

out

ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing

paint

on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
legroups.com...

We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba


so your saying a solution of clorox won't kill mold. and fresh dry air
won't stop it from growing?


Not exactly. Chlorox is NOT made to kill molds. Have you ever sprayed
it on a basement wall or a closet where mold grows? Notice how it
seems to keep showing up? Obviously, Chlorox is not a permanent
solution. And remember, some molds are harmless. Others will KILL you.
Dry air may help but a key to getting rid of mold is air changes.
Insulate that house and plug all those holes and you have the same
nasty air to breed mold. That's why HRV's (Heat Recovery Ventilators)
and ERV's (Energy Recovery Ventilators) are becoming so popular and
being installed in new homes. To ventilate and/or change the air in
the home.
Bubba



Bubba, please post some news links of people who have perished from mold.

Howz about you get your lazy drunken ass up offa that couch and do a
little thing called Google search and you can find all the articles,
deaths, hoaxes and whatever else you want to find on mold problems all
by your little self.
Bubba

The first thing I would do is get the mold tested by a reputable lab to
verify what type it is. Before giving you a estimate for $23K the
contractor should have given you a lab report showing it to be a toxic
and dangerous variety, eg stachybotrys. If he didn't, I would get rid
of him immeadiately. I think there may be test kits available on the
internet where you can take a sample yourself and send it in. No one
can identify a harmless black mold from a toxic one without a lab test.

If it's not a toxic mold, then a lot of what is being proposed is, IMO,
unwarranted. If it is toxic, then I agree with Joseph that it could be
a real problem and should be handled by a professional. I'd also do
some research on the web. I think the CDC has some good info too,
explaining that in most cases, unless you happen to be allergic to it,
mold is not a disaster.

On 12/29/2004 8:55 AM US(ET), took fingers to
keys, and typed the following:

The first thing I would do is get the mold tested by a reputable lab to
verify what type it is. Before giving you a estimate for $23K the
contractor should have given you a lab report showing it to be a toxic
and dangerous variety, eg stachybotrys. If he didn't, I would get rid
of him immeadiately. I think there may be test kits available on the
internet where you can take a sample yourself and send it in. No one
can identify a harmless black mold from a toxic one without a lab test.


Home Depot has a number of test kits for various home environmental
problems; Mold, Radon, etc. They have to be mailed in to some lab. I
happened to see them in HD last week because they were displayed right
at the end of an aisle. I don't know if Lowes has them, but I suppose
they do. If so, I didn't see them when I was in there a couple of weeks
ago, but I wasn't looking for them.

If it's not a toxic mold, then a lot of what is being proposed is, IMO,
unwarranted. If it is toxic, then I agree with Joseph that it could be
a real problem and should be handled by a professional. I'd also do
some research on the web. I think the CDC has some good info too,
explaining that in most cases, unless you happen to be allergic to it,
mold is not a disaster.





--
Bill

Bubba wrote in
:

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money.
tear out ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need
sealing paint on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
roups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up
and threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we
have a serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we
agreed that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up.
For a clean up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking
at $23,000. Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down
there. I have a large record collection and realize the cardboard
jackets,though looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl
records inside also a lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba

Bubba, please provide some scientific evidence that mold is anything
more than an annoyance to anyone other than allergy sufferers or people
with chronic asthma. Recently the National Academy of Science released
a report (http://www4.nationalacademies.org/ne...bn/0309091934?
OpenDocument) saying that the evidence was inconclusive regarding the
link between "indoor dampness or mold and the wide range of other health
complaints that have been ascribed to them." The way these mold
"remediators" push their wares, one would think that they are cleaning
up Ebola.

I am allergic to Rhizopds. Their spores make my eyes water, but for
$23000 (unless I had an enormous basement) I’d put on some goggles, seal
off the ducts, rip out the affected sheetrock, set up dehumidifiers,
HEPA filter(s), and use either a boric acid or hydrogen peroxide
solution to wipe down the exposed surfaces. Wipe off the peroxide/borax
with water; then raise the temperature to dry the treated surfaces as
quickly as possible. Keep in mind that the optimal conditions for mold
growth are 77-88 F and 70-98 percent relative humidity. Once the area
is dry, vacuum all surfaces with a good HEPA vacuum cleaner. This will
pick up spores the HEPA filter(s) missed. You can get a surface mold
test kit and a ambient spore count kit to check your work.

Anyhow, mold spores are everywhere. Mold doesn't just materialize out
of thin air. The whole point is not to create an environment that
allows spores to grow into colonies. If this happens you can get rid of
them by creating an inhospitable environment. The spores will remain.
If enough spores are present then the chances of recolonization is high.

Bubba, please post some news links of people who have perished from mold.

Howz about you get your lazy drunken ass up offa that couch and do a
little thing called Google search and you can find all the articles,
deaths, hoaxes and whatever else you want to find on mold problems all
by your little self.

Which is Bubba's way of saying "I'm full of ****".

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/e...old/moldQA.htm

" Livestock have died from eating moldy feed and fungal infections
can be fatal to humans, although this is rare. There is no specific mold
that creates a life threatening situation by its mere presence."

Counterbalanced by the observation that ANY mold is an allergen,
and adversely affects your air quality. It will make you sick,
in sufficient quantity, but it will drive you out of the house long
before it kills you.

--Goedjn

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:54:52 GMT, Alex Z wrote:

Bubba wrote in
:

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer"
wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money.
tear out ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need
sealing paint on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
groups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up
and threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we
have a serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we
agreed that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up.
For a clean up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking
at $23,000. Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down
there. I have a large record collection and realize the cardboard
jackets,though looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl
records inside also a lost cause,or can they be cleaned?


You and Rob Gray are ****in idiots. There is toxic mold and it can be
deadly. There are also rip off artists and people that do it right.
You have no idea what is at the original posters home and the degree
of clean up. $23,000 may be a rip off and it may be the greatest deal
on earth but neither you nor I have the slightest clue without being
there. Mold clean up is NOT cheap but thats why you get estimates.
Clorox and sealing paint............God what a retard.
Bubba

Bubba, please provide some scientific evidence that mold is anything
more than an annoyance to anyone other than allergy sufferers or people
with chronic asthma. Recently the National Academy of Science released
a report (http://www4.nationalacademies.org/ne...bn/0309091934?
OpenDocument) saying that the evidence was inconclusive regarding the
link between "indoor dampness or mold and the wide range of other health
complaints that have been ascribed to them." The way these mold
"remediators" push their wares, one would think that they are cleaning
up Ebola.

I am allergic to Rhizopds. Their spores make my eyes water, but for
$23000 (unless I had an enormous basement) I’d put on some goggles, seal
off the ducts, rip out the affected sheetrock, set up dehumidifiers,
HEPA filter(s), and use either a boric acid or hydrogen peroxide
solution to wipe down the exposed surfaces. Wipe off the peroxide/borax
with water; then raise the temperature to dry the treated surfaces as
quickly as possible. Keep in mind that the optimal conditions for mold
growth are 77-88 F and 70-98 percent relative humidity. Once the area
is dry, vacuum all surfaces with a good HEPA vacuum cleaner. This will
pick up spores the HEPA filter(s) missed. You can get a surface mold
test kit and a ambient spore count kit to check your work.

Anyhow, mold spores are everywhere. Mold doesn't just materialize out
of thin air. The whole point is not to create an environment that
allows spores to grow into colonies. If this happens you can get rid of
them by creating an inhospitable environment. The spores will remain.
If enough spores are present then the chances of recolonization is high.

You dont seem to be following along here.
I am in the heating and cooling business. I own my own. I have for
over 20 years. My family has now been in this business for 3 or 4
generations. Our industry is being trained in this field now but we
are not experts in the field. I do know, that I can be held
accountable and liable for any mold problem I run across and dont
properly advise the owner about or cause damage to the home from
"stirring it up". So what else is new. I can be sued for anything. It
comes with the business.
What you're missing is, I follow standards and procedures mandated by
my industry. If I see mold, its suspected serious until proven
otherwise. I could actually care less whether you have a runny nose
from it or get sick and die of it. My home is warm, cozy and mold
free. If you want to do research on it, Google yourself to death. I
dont need the research. I am trained enough on it as it is.
A hepa vacuum cleaner and some boric acid wipedown. .............
Oh my gawd! Yer killin me man, yer just killin me.
Bubba

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:04:22 -0500, "
wrote:

Bubba, please post some news links of people who have perished from mold.

Howz about you get your lazy drunken ass up offa that couch and do a
little thing called Google search and you can find all the articles,
deaths, hoaxes and whatever else you want to find on mold problems all
by your little self.

Which is Bubba's way of saying "I'm full of ****".

Yes, I am saying that you are full of **** and a clueless asshole.
So what else is new?
Your own statement pasted below even proves mold can be fatal although
rare. So are you saying you cant read or what? I think Id like to know
if it was serious or not if it were in my home. You can die with your
livestock for all I care.
Bubba

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/e...old/moldQA.htm

" Livestock have died from eating moldy feed and fungal infections
can be fatal to humans, although this is rare. There is no specific mold
that creates a life threatening situation by its mere presence."

Counterbalanced by the observation that ANY mold is an allergen,
and adversely affects your air quality. It will make you sick,
in sufficient quantity, but it will drive you out of the house long
before it kills you.

--Goedjn

Bubba wrote in
:


You dont seem to be following along here.
I am in the heating and cooling business. I own my own. I have for
over 20 years. My family has now been in this business for 3 or 4
generations. Our industry is being trained in this field now but we
are not experts in the field. I do know, that I can be held
accountable and liable for any mold problem I run across and dont
properly advise the owner about or cause damage to the home from
"stirring it up". So what else is new. I can be sued for anything. It
comes with the business.
What you're missing is, I follow standards and procedures mandated by
my industry. If I see mold, its suspected serious until proven
otherwise. I could actually care less whether you have a runny nose
from it or get sick and die of it. My home is warm, cozy and mold
free. If you want to do research on it, Google yourself to death. I
dont need the research. I am trained enough on it as it is.
A hepa vacuum cleaner and some boric acid wipedown. .............
Oh my gawd! Yer killin me man, yer just killin me.
Bubba


Standards are standards and they should be followed or else risk being
sued. As a businessman you are being very sensible in following them.
However, these standards vary from industry to industry and state to state.
With regards to mold many of these standards were created as a response to
the mold *panic* of the late eighties early nineties. There is very little
science to back them up.

As for your home being "warm, cozy and mold free," I take it you don't live
in Houston, TX, because you it'd have to be a plastic bubble in order to
make such a claim.

MLD wrote:
Your home owner's insurance should cover just about all of your
expenses and usually will pay the "restoration company" what ever
their bill is minus your deductible. Why is that not the way to go
in your case? $23,000 in not out of line--taking to someone that
went through this process.

Nope. Homeowner policies are written today to specifically exclude mold
remediation.

Why?

Because there's mold everywhere and hysteria is catching.

Mold is the latest in a long line of nonsense: asbestos, silicon breast
implants, global warming, carbohydrates.

Next year there will be something else to fear.

Paint over the **** and keep quite about it.

JerryMouse wrote:
MLD wrote:

Your home owner's insurance should cover just about all of your
expenses and usually will pay the "restoration company" what ever
their bill is minus your deductible. Why is that not the way to go
in your case? $23,000 in not out of line--taking to someone that
went through this process.


Nope. Homeowner policies are written today to specifically exclude mold
remediation.

Why?

Because there's mold everywhere and hysteria is catching.

Mold is the latest in a long line of nonsense: asbestos, silicon breast
implants, global warming, carbohydrates.

Next year there will be something else to fear.

Paint over the **** and keep quite about it.



You forgot lead paint, and radon.

I agree with you about the hysteria thing. But you can't just paint
over the mold -- for one thing, the paint won't stick. You need to
remove as much mold as is reasonable, dry everything out (which might
mean opening up the walls and tearing out old insulation and drywall),
and seal the remaining mold with shellac or kilz, or paint with
mildewcide in it.

*Then* keep quiet about it.

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I agree with you about the hysteria thing. But you can't just paint
over the mold -- for one thing, the paint won't stick. You need to
remove as much mold as is reasonable, dry everything out (which might
mean opening up the walls and tearing out old insulation and drywall),
and seal the remaining mold with shellac or kilz, or paint with
mildewcide in it.

*Then* keep quiet about it.

Bob

This sounds like a sensible proposition. Once dry there is no reason for
the mold to grow back. I think they recommend washing the framing with
peroxide letting it dry out then paint it.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

You need to hire two or three separate independent contractors:
1. Inspect and write cleanup plan (usually called a protocol)
2. Someone to do the clean-up
3. Someone to test and certify that the cleanup has been done.

Virtually all contractors that do cleanup and other parts (like 1 and 2)
are not ethical.


On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:53:19 -0500, "observer" wrote:

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear out
ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing paint
on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

"hvsteve" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water
into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water
was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and
threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a
serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed
that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean
up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000.
Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I
have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though
looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a
lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

"JerryMouse" wrote in message
...
MLD wrote:
Your home owner's insurance should cover just about all of your
expenses and usually will pay the "restoration company" what ever
their bill is minus your deductible. Why is that not the way to go
in your case? $23,000 in not out of line--taking to someone that
went through this process.

Nope. Homeowner policies are written today to specifically exclude mold
remediation.

Why?

Because there's mold everywhere and hysteria is catching.

Mold is the latest in a long line of nonsense: asbestos, silicon breast
implants, global warming, carbohydrates.

Next year there will be something else to fear.

Paint over the **** and keep quite about it.


Not if the mold problem is part of the clean up due to the water damage.
While away for a few days I had a toilet failure that resulted in it
overflowing and causing considerable damage. Insurance paid (even
recommended a company) for the tearing down of all the damaged walls,
ceilings and mold removal and associated spraying etc. for future mold
growth. They were in my house for about a week.
The biggest lesson I learned out of my event was that the first thing one
should do is call in a public adjuster. You pay them a fee, 10% I think, but
they deal with the insurance co. and in the end will get you back much more
than their fee. Also, they fight on your behalf to get the insurance
company to pay up. I had to lock horns a few times with my insurance
company.
MLD

There can be a long and apparently a legitimate debate over whether mold
presents a significant risk. However, I don't think we need to step
into that debate here. Whether or not the OP or others will experience
health risks frfrom the state of the house after a DIY cleanup is debatable;
what I think is *not* in question is that, currently, having a mold issue
in a house will likely have an effect on the value of the house. Maybe
this should be true and maybe it shouldn't, but it does *currently* seem
to be true. Perhaps this will change in the future, but we don't know
that right now. Given that, in order to mitigate *financial* loss and
risk, I would have the problem remediated professionally, even if I
felt that it was a bit of a ripoff. I know this is not the ideal state
of affairs, but it would be my way of trying to deal the situation
in a dispassionate way that best serves my own interests. As someone
suggested, one could cover up the problem and not disclose its existence,
but that seems risky to me.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=
Mike Lacy, Ft Collins CO 80523
Clean out the 'junk' to email me.

I appreciate all the "spirited" responses to my post. Here is an
update.

I called the insurance company and,while making sure to go on record
that there may not be a claim,they sent an adjuster. He looked over the
situation and did not see all that much mold (I'm not trained,and I can
see it) but did note a lot of physical damage from the flooding. What
surprised me was his asking for the phone number so he could contact
the guy who wanted 23 grand for the cleanup. I'd like to have heard
that discussion.

I also found a local company that does environmental testing and is
experienced with mold. They would test and outline the scope of the
problem. They could also supply a list of companies that do this kind
of cleanup if I wish. It would cost a few hundred for them to show up
and up to five or six hundred total depending on the amount of testing
they have to send to the lab. I would not call them in unless the
insurance company wants no part of the deal. Should the insurance
company say there is a claim,I might try to get them to foot the bill
for this kind of testing.

I guess what I will do now is what to hear from my insuror. I will keep
the group posted as I could see the amount of interest and varying
opinion on this case.

I guess