I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream.

Things change over a span of 50 years.
They may not go anywhere anymore.
You could, if you really want to know, use a smoke test.
TB

On 25 Dec 2004 15:08:01 -0800, wrote:

I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream.

Do you have rain gutters with downspouts that go underground? Here in
OH, years ago there was no separate storm sewer and downspouts tied
into the sanitary. Now that's illegal and downspounts must discharge
into storm sewer or daylight. Maybe the other pipes run or did run to
your downspouts?

Paul

wrote:
I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream.


If it is an older home they may be the footer, foundation or floor drains.
--
Tom H

Likely stormwater drain connections.
Eliminate them. They need to be gone. AND you need to only
have your sewer line connected to a connection higher than grade
level. That way, if there's a backup, you're not replacing furnace,
water heater, etc. If there's a floor drain, this is the time to connect
it to a sump pump, rather than have sewage come in by way of a
basement line if there's a backup. Got a washing machine in the
basement? Use the sump pump for it, too.
Oneway valve? Don't believe it. The flap can be held open by a mop string.
And if there is a backup, and the oneway valve is being closed, when you
flush your commode you know what may show up in the basement.
Better if there's a backup for the liquid to overflow from the manhole
cover at the street, or into someone else's basement.

HorneTD wrote in message
ink.net...
If it is an older home they may be the footer, foundation or floor drains.
--
Tom H

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
Likely stormwater drain connections.
Eliminate them. They need to be gone.

Don't you think it would be smart to find out what they are before
eliminating them? Just plugging them up is about the dumbest idea I've
heard in a while. All sorts of damage may occur if something is draining
into them, like downspouts.

The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
Likely stormwater drain connections.
Eliminate them. They need to be gone.

Don't you think it would be smart to find out what they are before
eliminating them? Just plugging them up is about the dumbest idea I've
heard in a while. All sorts of damage may occur if something is draining
into them, like downspouts.

Michael Baugh wrote:

The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Yeah, I see he needs to be da... certain he knows what he's cutting
off before just doing so. Suggesting to "just eliminate" them w/o
having a clue of what they are is just irresponsible imo. (Which was
Edwin's point, too, obviously).

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
. ..
The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Before anything is "gone", you must make provision for what feeds into
them. Before you can do that, they must be traced to the source. It would
not make sense to plug them and have the spring rains flood the basement
because you just found out what goes into them. Could they be lines from the
house in the back neighbors sewage? Bet they'd love to have you plug them.

It would be totally irresponsible to plug an underground line now knowing
where it comes from.

All right, already. Stop trying to convince me that you can't
read the posts. Sewage in only one of the three pipes.
Sewage goes to the sewer. One pipe gets replaced to go
to the sewer.
Happens all the time, in combined discharge areas. Easy enough,
for some, to see that their stormwater gets delivered to the yard,
and sewage to the sewer.
Even if it's sewage from 15 neighbors, instead of just the one you
contrived, it still goes to the sewer. Nothing else. So get off the
stormwater pony. Rain water does not go to the sewer, and frequently
the municipal sewage people will smoketest a property to verify that
the downspouts are not connected to the sewer.
So disconnect yours, too, instead of trying to justify it.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
. ..
The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Before anything is "gone", you must make provision for what feeds into
them. Before you can do that, they must be traced to the source. It would
not make sense to plug them and have the spring rains flood the basement
because you just found out what goes into them. Could they be lines from
the
house in the back neighbors sewage? Bet they'd love to have you plug
them.

It would be totally irresponsible to plug an underground line now knowing
where it comes from.

Get off it already. You made a stupid suggestions (just remove...),
been called on it and now you just made another dumb reply. There are
-lots- of communities where stormwater is still feeding into the
sewage...usually small communities but there they are.

Harry K

Michael Baugh wrote:
The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Yes. You may be surprised what they may be. A contractor working on
building a garage for the home behind mine run into a pipe when he dug the
foundations. He just broke it up and went on his way. When I flushed my
toilet he came over to tell me to not do that it was flooding his
foundation. Well the city building department thought otherwise. He had to
stop his construction, patch the pipe and pay for my new sewer tap. About a
month later after the new sewer tap was in he was allowed to continue his
work on the garage. The owner of that home was non-too happy with him.

You don't just cut of what you don't know, unless you are a fool.


Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
Likely stormwater drain connections.
Eliminate them. They need to be gone.

Don't you think it would be smart to find out what they are before
eliminating them? Just plugging them up is about the dumbest idea
I've heard in a while. All sorts of damage may occur if something
is draining into them, like downspouts.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Call the sewer department. In Tacoma they are in the process of relining all
of the old sewer lines in the city. They are several years into this
process. They first come through with a camera through the main and locate
all of the side sewer hookups and then identify them so they can cut out
for them after they reline. They have very good records of the lines that
they have already done.

Two of the homes that I have owned in the northend of Tacoma have had
adjacent homes sewer lines running across my property. It would be strange
for them to run under your foundation however, unless there has been an
addition added to your home or your home is in an old neighborhood and was
built well after your neighbors. (50 yrs isn't that old in Tacoma) Check to
see if there are records for an easement. I never knew about either one of
the sewers on my properties until years after I bought them. It is very
common it the older neighborhoods for homes to share a line on private
property before it gets to the main.

Under no means dead end them. In the last 50 years you can bet that they
have been smoke tested and are not storm water. Unless there is a trap or a
very low spot in the line the smoke would have billowed out of your
downspouts. If they are a separate perimeter drain into the sanitary, then
so be it, leave them hooked to the sewer.
CR

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream.

Here in Louisville we routinely encounter sewer lines that serve
a property nearby. They are usually at least seven feet deep,
obviously running or ran sewage, and the property lines have
been changed a couple times since they were installed. Often,
they were a carriage house or a mother-in-law house, and
are no longer seen as part of the property. That's why part of the
concern is valid, the fact that you don't know what it is isn't basis for
removal.
Having established that all the sewage is in one pipe, none in the
others, and not knowing why the other pipes are there is sufficient
cause for eliminating them, unless there's a vacant building nearby.
Even if there is, that's what new property service connections are for.
Perimeter drains are not supposed to go to the sewer. They are stormwater,
and should be directed otherwise. Part of that is to keep
stormwater from overwhelming a sewage treatment plant, another is to keep
sewage backups from filling perimeter drain areas and potentially delivering
sewage to the surface.
My opinion, worth what you paid for it.

CR wrote in message
...
Call the sewer department. In Tacoma they are in the process of relining
all
of the old sewer lines in the city. They are several years into this
process. They first come through with a camera through the main and locate
all of the side sewer hookups and then identify them so they can cut out
for them after they reline. They have very good records of the lines that
they have already done.

Two of the homes that I have owned in the northend of Tacoma have had
adjacent homes sewer lines running across my property. It would be strange
for them to run under your foundation however, unless there has been an
addition added to your home or your home is in an old neighborhood and was
built well after your neighbors. (50 yrs isn't that old in Tacoma) Check
to
see if there are records for an easement. I never knew about either one of
the sewers on my properties until years after I bought them. It is very
common it the older neighborhoods for homes to share a line on private
property before it gets to the main.

Under no means dead end them. In the last 50 years you can bet that they
have been smoke tested and are not storm water. Unless there is a trap or
a
very low spot in the line the smoke would have billowed out of your
downspouts. If they are a separate perimeter drain into the sanitary, then
so be it, leave them hooked to the sewer.
CR

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream.

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
...
All right, already. Stop trying to convince me that you can't
read the posts. Sewage in only one of the three pipes.
Sewage goes to the sewer. One pipe gets replaced to go
to the sewer.


I read very well, thank you. The problem is not replacing the sew. It is as
you suggest, cutting and blocking pipes of unknown use. Read what you
suggested and use some common sense, It is just plain dumb to plug something
unless you know what it is there form. It could well be the sewage lines for
other homes, it could be downspouts, it could be a lot of things. I think
if you review what you said, you'll agree it is a dumb idea.




Happens all the time, in combined discharge areas. Easy enough,
for some, to see that their stormwater gets delivered to the yard,
and sewage to the sewer.


If it is so easy to see, the OP would not be asking.


Even if it's sewage from 15 neighbors, instead of just the one you
contrived, it still goes to the sewer. Nothing else. So get off the
stormwater pony.

I'm not on an pony. My point is the reason is UNKNOWN and blocking them can
be a danger.


Rain water does not go to the sewer, and frequently
the municipal sewage people will smoketest a property to verify that
the downspouts are not connected to the sewer.
So disconnect yours, too, instead of trying to justify it.

Jusitfy? No reason to as m ine go to the storm drain, not the sewer system.
All approved by the town. Why don't you understand the work UNKNOWN? I
stand by what I said about plugging lines of UNKNOWN origin and use.

There is a MASSIVE number of communities that still have
stormwater going into the sewers. But I'll bet the people in the
ones that have that would be able to figure out where their
downspouts go.

Harry K wrote in message
oups.com...
Get off it already. You made a stupid suggestions (just remove...),
been called on it and now you just made another dumb reply. There are
-lots- of communities where stormwater is still feeding into the
sewage...usually small communities but there they are.

Harry K

You're talking about a sewer line.
Not a matter of cutting off a pipe of unknown contents.
The other two have been verified as not carrying sewage.
Perhaps I've misread the OP?
If so, in what way?

Joseph Meehan wrote in message
...
Michael Baugh wrote:
The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Yes. You may be surprised what they may be. A contractor working on
building a garage for the home behind mine run into a pipe when he dug the
foundations. He just broke it up and went on his way. When I flushed my
toilet he came over to tell me to not do that it was flooding his
foundation. Well the city building department thought otherwise. He had
to
stop his construction, patch the pipe and pay for my new sewer tap. About
a
month later after the new sewer tap was in he was allowed to continue his
work on the garage. The owner of that home was non-too happy with him.

You don't just cut of what you don't know, unless you are a fool.


Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
Likely stormwater drain connections.
Eliminate them. They need to be gone.

Don't you think it would be smart to find out what they are before
eliminating them? Just plugging them up is about the dumbest idea
I've heard in a while. All sorts of damage may occur if something
is draining into them, like downspouts.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Michael Baugh" wrote
You're talking about a sewer line.
Not a matter of cutting off a pipe of unknown contents.
The other two have been verified as not carrying sewage.
Perhaps I've misread the OP?
If so, in what way?

Perhaps you have misread the OP. Their waste water runs the middle pipe.
They in noway state the other two pipes are not sewer lines. The other two
pipes very well may be pipes from near by structures (neighbors). Though
this practice would be unheard of in todays building codes, I know it
existed in previous times. It would be cutting pipes of unknown useage.

OP: "I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream."

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
...
Here in Louisville we routinely encounter sewer lines that serve
a property nearby. They are usually at least seven feet deep,

The depth of the sewer line is in direct proportion to the distance to and
depth of the main line.



obviously running or ran sewage, and the property lines have
been changed a couple times since they were installed. Often,
they were a carriage house or a mother-in-law house, and
are no longer seen as part of the property. That's why part of the
concern is valid, the fact that you don't know what it is isn't basis for
removal.
Having established that all the sewage is in one pipe, none in the
others, and not knowing why the other pipes are there is sufficient
cause for eliminating them, unless there's a vacant building nearby.

He said that he ran all of HIS waste lines, not that he ran all of his
neighbors.
In any case, the risk of blocking them off is not worth taking without
ID-ing them first. And the cost of rerouting them if they are a perimeter
drains would be very high and may not even be possible depending on the lay
of the land. The fact that they come out from under his foundation tells me
that they probably are not perimeter drains anyway. They were sure as hell
put there for something at one time and hooking them to the new line won't
hurt anything and the cost of a couple of fernco's, 45 bends and a T is
minimal.

CR


Even if there is, that's what new property service connections are for.
Perimeter drains are not supposed to go to the sewer. They are stormwater,
and should be directed otherwise. Part of that is to keep
stormwater from overwhelming a sewage treatment plant, another is to keep
sewage backups from filling perimeter drain areas and potentially
delivering
sewage to the surface.
My opinion, worth what you paid for it.

CR wrote in message
...
Call the sewer department. In Tacoma they are in the process of relining
all
of the old sewer lines in the city. They are several years into this
process. They first come through with a camera through the main and
locate
all of the side sewer hookups and then identify them so they can cut
out
for them after they reline. They have very good records of the lines
that
they have already done.

Two of the homes that I have owned in the northend of Tacoma have had
adjacent homes sewer lines running across my property. It would be
strange
for them to run under your foundation however, unless there has been an
addition added to your home or your home is in an old neighborhood and
was
built well after your neighbors. (50 yrs isn't that old in Tacoma) Check
to
see if there are records for an easement. I never knew about either one
of
the sewers on my properties until years after I bought them. It is very
common it the older neighborhoods for homes to share a line on private
property before it gets to the main.

Under no means dead end them. In the last 50 years you can bet that they
have been smoke tested and are not storm water. Unless there is a trap
or
a
very low spot in the line the smoke would have billowed out of your
downspouts. If they are a separate perimeter drain into the sanitary,
then
so be it, leave them hooked to the sewer.
CR

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes
designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream.

Read the OP again. He has no idea what the pipes were for, they MAY be for
sewage.
Face it, you blew it, recommending that he just block off the pipes without
knowing what they are for is a very bad idea!
Greg


"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
...
You're talking about a sewer line.
Not a matter of cutting off a pipe of unknown contents.
The other two have been verified as not carrying sewage.
Perhaps I've misread the OP?
If so, in what way?

Joseph Meehan wrote in message
...
Michael Baugh wrote:
The only thing that should go into the sewer line is sewage.
The sewage has been verified as only going in one of the pipes.
Yes, they are likely stubbed off downspout connections. Need
to be gone.
Do you see it some other way?

Yes. You may be surprised what they may be. A contractor working
on
building a garage for the home behind mine run into a pipe when he dug
the
foundations. He just broke it up and went on his way. When I flushed
my
toilet he came over to tell me to not do that it was flooding his
foundation. Well the city building department thought otherwise. He
had
to
stop his construction, patch the pipe and pay for my new sewer tap.
About
a
month later after the new sewer tap was in he was allowed to continue
his
work on the garage. The owner of that home was non-too happy with him.

You don't just cut of what you don't know, unless you are a fool.


Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
Likely stormwater drain connections.
Eliminate them. They need to be gone.

Don't you think it would be smart to find out what they are before
eliminating them? Just plugging them up is about the dumbest idea
I've heard in a while. All sorts of damage may occur if something
is draining into them, like downspouts.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
...
My opinion, worth what you paid for it.



That is the most sense you have made yet!
Greg

Hey, you're right. So before replacing his pipe, he needs
to see if there is sewage running or has run in the others.
If there is, the other owners need to participate.
Thanks for the repost.

Eddie Dice wrote in message
...

"Michael Baugh" wrote
You're talking about a sewer line.
Not a matter of cutting off a pipe of unknown contents.
The other two have been verified as not carrying sewage.
Perhaps I've misread the OP?
If so, in what way?

Perhaps you have misread the OP. Their waste water runs the middle pipe.
They in noway state the other two pipes are not sewer lines. The other
two
pipes very well may be pipes from near by structures (neighbors). Though
this practice would be unheard of in todays building codes, I know it
existed in previous times. It would be cutting pipes of unknown useage.

OP: "I'm having the side sewer replaced in my 50 yr old home (Tacoma, WA).
On either side of the sewer line as it leaves the foundation, are two
other concrete pipes the same diameter, which join the middle pipe and
dump into the sewer main. We tested and all the wastewater from the
house comes out the middle pipe. What are the two other pipes designed
to do? It's impossible to tell what they lead to, upstream."

Thanks everyone for the replies. We have done some more checking and
verified the two unknown pipes are NOT wastewater from other
properties. We have also verified the downspouts go to the street
gutter now (but probably did feed into these two pipes originally). My
question now is, do you think it's likely that a perimieter drain
system (under the foundation) may still feed into these pipes? A
contractor we asked told us this is quite possible in a home 50 years
old.

We cannot just connect these pipes back up to the side sewer, as the
City will not allow it, knowing the pipes are not wastewater. Even
though the downspouts no longer feed into these pipes, if they are
collecting stormwater then the discharge ends have to be connected to
something, otherwise water will collect around the foundation.

Suppose they are perimeter drains. And suppose they did go to the sewer.
In the process of installing new line, you'll likely need to have the line
surrounded with stone. Well, if I were doing it, I'd probably go ahead with
the installation project, and do all the things that needed to be done. As
well as putting a bag and some dirt over the ends
so they wouldn't even be apparent when the pipe was being inspected and
smoketested, if it is.
Then, before things started being filled back up with gravel and dirt, I'd
uncover them and let their drainage be by way of the gravel surrounding the
pipe.
I suspect that they could well be perimeter drain, and if it is, you've got
a path already to the street. Matter of fact, there are some folks that have
connected a 2" line to their perimeter drain pipes and ran it further below
grade to the street as they were putting in their gravel after inspection.
Would certainly never show if they ran a camera up your line. And after all,
you wouldn't be connecting to the sewer.
See how a smoke test gets done. I watched as someone smoketested an unknown
pipe, and smoke came up alongside a corner of his house, and from a spot in
the garden where there was an erosion path. The unknown pipe was a perimeter
drain pipe, one of two.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks everyone for the replies. We have done some more checking and
verified the two unknown pipes are NOT wastewater from other
properties. We have also verified the downspouts go to the street
gutter now (but probably did feed into these two pipes originally). My
question now is, do you think it's likely that a perimieter drain
system (under the foundation) may still feed into these pipes? A
contractor we asked told us this is quite possible in a home 50 years
old.

We cannot just connect these pipes back up to the side sewer, as the
City will not allow it, knowing the pipes are not wastewater. Even
though the downspouts no longer feed into these pipes, if they are
collecting stormwater then the discharge ends have to be connected to
something, otherwise water will collect around the foundation.

I'm in Kansas city, and my downspouts started backing up this weekend.
Now I know why!

Unblock the darn things, please! My wife is ****ed!