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| Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
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#1
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15 or 20 Amp
Hello,
I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... |
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#2
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David DeBoer wrote:
Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... Since you are asking these questions, I wonder if you are planning to do the work yourself. If so, maybe you should consider a professional. It is not all that difficult, but you can run into a few things that can go wrong. In any case, normally 15 amp is fine for a home computer. I only run 20 amp circuits as it cost only slightly less, provides additional power if needed for future changes and slightly reduces the voltage loss (assuming standard wire gauges are used.) It is generally not required, but I like to keep my laser printer on a differnet circuit to reduce power changes to the computer. -- Joseph E. Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
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#3
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PC, monitor, printer, scanner and USB hub right now.
wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:15:58 -0500, "David DeBoer" wrote: Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... It really depends on what you mean by "computer equipment". BB |
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#4
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A 15-amp breaker in a 120-volt circuit supports 1800 watts (15 x 120 =
1800). If your loads total less than 1800 watts, the 15-amp breaker will be adequate. Get the wattage rating from the nameplate on each piece of equipment that will plug into this circuit and add up the total. David DeBoer wrote: Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... |
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#5
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"David DeBoer" wrote:
I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? 15amp = 14ga copper. 20amp = 12ga copper. Either will work, I'll suggest 20 amp, it isn't that much more $$, and gives a bit more capacity, which might be handy for things like laser printers in the future. |
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#6
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David,
When you ask basic electrical questions like this, it indicates you may not have enough knowledge to be "safe" around electricity. Therefore, expect numerous suggestions to "seek professional help". If the wiring you plan to install from the distribution panel to outlets for your computer and other "stuff" is 14 gauge, then you MUST use a 15 amp breaker for each circuit. (The breaker protects the wire from carrying too much current and possibly overheating). Expect to have no more than about 1800 watts available. That's the reason the suggestion was made to get the wattage from each nameplate on the equipment and total them. If you use 12 gauge wire (which is bigger) you must use a 20 amp breaker. This will give you about 2400 watts of capacity. "David DeBoer" wrote in message ... Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... |
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#7
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I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... Given the choice of 15A or 20A, your best deal is to go with the 20A circuit. It doesn't cost that much more and there are other subtle benefits that have not been mentioned. If you load up one 15A circuit with monitor, computer, laser printer, audio amps, and say there is something else unusual on the circuit like a treadmill, your quality of power will suffer. (Excessive voltage drop, lamps may flicker as the laser printer goes through it's various heat-up cycles, etc. Although the 15A breaker might not actually trip, the higher Ampacity of a 20A circuit (increase load carrying ability of the conductors at 20A) is going to give you a better installation and less voltage variation. Beachcomber |
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#8
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Ray wrote:
A 15-amp breaker in a 120-volt circuit supports 1800 watts (15 x 120 = 1800). If your loads total less than 1800 watts, the 15-amp breaker will be adequate. Get the wattage rating from the nameplate on each piece of equipment that will plug into this circuit and add up the total. Unless the loads are continuous (likely in this case); then the ckt is limited to 80% of the max rating. Jim David DeBoer wrote: Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... |
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#9
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Would I need
a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Go with a 20a/12ga wire, your laser printer won't dip the line as much. how many breakers can be in the box? 42 |
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#10
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"David DeBoer" wrote in message ... Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... This is Turtle. First get all the amp requirements from the back of the equipment and add it up to see. Most of the time a 15 amp breaker would be fine but add all the amperages up to see. Now this is whay your suppose to do. Now I would run me a 20 circuit to it and have some spare ability for future additions. Now here is the abilitys of each type wire and breaker to use. 15 Amp Breaker = #14-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type up to 40 feet and not to exceed. 20 Amp Breaker = #12-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type up to 40 feet and not to exceed. These requiements are on the safe side and it should be. Now if your not well versed in the electrical field i might suggest you get a electrician to run the circuit for you. TURTLE |
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#11
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David DeBoer wrote:
Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... If this is to be a dedicated circuit, and if I had to buy the wire, I would go with 15A circuit and #14 wire. Fourteen gauge wire is a little cheaper, and a lot easier to work with, and a 15A circuit should be more than adequate. If I had #12 wire already, I would run a 20A circuit, just because. Best regards, Bob |
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#12
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There is no such thing as too much power. You don't
NEED more than 15 amps, but go with 20A and 12guage wire, anyway. |
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#13
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Yes, 20 amp circuit. My computer / printer / monitor power strip is on a 15
amp line and the overhead light blinks when the laser printer goes through it's warm up cycle. I'm using a backup supply for the computer to keep voltage constant. I'm thinking of adding a second backup supply with 7 amps in which will deliver more current out for a limited time. Eventually, I'll get around to putting in a 20 amp line. If you have the choice now, don't put in a 15. Bob wrote in message ... There is no such thing as too much power. You don't NEED more than 15 amps, but go with 20A and 12guage wire, anyway. |
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#14
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#14-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type
Y'all up thar in Looziana ain't got THHN Romex yet? The rest of the country got it in about 85-86. |
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#15
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David DeBoer wrote:
PC, monitor, printer, scanner and USB hub right now. wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:15:58 -0500, "David DeBoer" wrote: Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... It really depends on what you mean by "computer equipment". BB 15 amp. Very few people use anything more than a standard wall socket circuit (15 amp) for home computer equipment. What you mentioned is probably less than 600 watts, so you have 1200 more watts before you overload the circuit. You need a minimum of number 14 wire for 15 amp circuits, but number 12 wire would be better and if you put 12 wire in you might as well put in a 20 amp breaker. |
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#16
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"Greg" wrote in message ... #14-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type Y'all up thar in Looziana ain't got THHN Romex yet? The rest of the country got it in about 85-86. This is Turtle. We are still tring to get a complete copy of the NEC code without somebody getting a kick back on it in the State Government. We have a ex-governor, Treasurer, Insurance Commisioner, and Gambling Commisioner in Federal prison right now and tring to send some more. They had stolen billions but got cought with some chump change of $600,000,000.00 kick back on one casino kick back job. The Governor was stupid enough to take $1/4 mil. down payment in cash while in Los Vagas to cover some fun on the tables. He took it from a Federal Agent. He got 8 years for stealing 4.1 Billion dollars and taking $6 Mil. from Getty oil company on a law suite by his law firm. When Texeco bought out Getty oil company the state forgive Texeco about the kick back. They still have not got the money back yet for it is all in over sea's banks under different names. They did find some in the Bank of France. He was a starched Democrate and staied the course during the trial. Also they got him in a Federal prison about 1 mile from my house to be near family and friends. The Rotary club here ask the Federal prison for Edwards to speak at one of their Rotary club meetings and was turned down. I guess money talks. TURTLE |
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#18
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Most computers are fairly low load. 15 oughta do it. Yes, there are
restrictions hwo much load you can put on a panel. 15 amp breakers take 14 AWG wire. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "David DeBoer" wrote in message ... Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... |
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#19
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glad u said it so i didnt have to.
15A is plenty. in fact a 15 might be better. it will blow faster than the 20 if something does go wrong. randy "George E. Cawthon" wrote in message ... Good Grief! Have you ever looked at the wattage rating on your equipment. Most computers have a 350 watt power supply, some really big boys have a 600 watt PS. Monitors are usually less than 100 watts, laser printers may be 200 watts and inkjets are likely to be around 25 watts. A flat bed scanner is around 100 watts. That means the power consumption is likely to be 600 watts when scanning and 700 watts when using a laser printer. A 15 amp circuit could probably support three computer systems, or at least 2 system that draw heavily and use 100 watt or more table lights. wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:30:46 -0500, "David DeBoer" wrote: PC, monitor, printer, scanner and USB hub right now. That still really isn't enough detail. A CRT monitor uses a lot more power than an LCD monitor of a given size. A 2.8 ghz CPU uses more power than a 1 ghz CPU. A laser printer uses FAR more power (although intermittantly) than an inkjet. If you have a fast CPU, a CRT monitor and a laser printer, 15 amps may not meet even the minimum requirements. You should be able to find out the minimum power requirements for each item by looking in the manuals that came with them, or at the manufacturer's website. BB wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:15:58 -0500, "David DeBoer" wrote: Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... It really depends on what you mean by "computer equipment". BB |
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#21
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#22
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#23
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I will throw in my $.02 worth here.
I currently have a "data center" in one of my bedrooms. In there I run a number of machines, and all on a 15A circuit. I have had all the following up and running at the same time: 1 dual processor Compaq server(8A) with 4 internal disk drives and two attached storage arrays (6A each). 1 quad processor Compaq server(8A) with 4 internal disk drives and one attached storage array(6A). 1 homebuilt computer system with two 800Mhz processors, three internal disk drives, two external disk drives, and a 20" monitor. I'm not sure what the power requirements are, but the monitor says 3A. Can probably figure 6A for the whole thing. 1 HP Laserjet 4M+ printer (7.6A) with duplex attachement. That would certainly be mostly for warm-up, but I would imagine it would still draw a couple of amps while printing. 1 Epson Color dot matrix printer 1 fax machine. Plus my DSL modem, router, network switch, and maybe a couple of lights. (All Amp ratings are directly off of the labels on the back of the equipment.) This 15 amp circuit runs all of this just fine. It looks like the circuit is way over subscribed, but the ampere ratings are maximums which will **most likely** only come into play when the equipment is initially turned on. I left all of this equipment up and running for a few days a while back and there was no problem. No circuit breaker tripping, No smell of burning plastic. :-) But this is just about the limit. I fired up another computer which is pretty much a "normal" 2.4Ghz machine with a 21" monitor, tape drive, and scanner, and the circuit breaker tripped after a couple of hours. I'm sure that if I came in and just threw a switch and had everything all come on at the same time, the CB would just laugh at me and say "uh, NO!", but everything gets paced. I have it set up so that when I turn on a machine, the monitor comes on first, then the external storage array (if there is one), then the computer. While the computers with attached storage arrays are coming up, then the disk drives in the arrays will be spun up one at a time. Once the computer is fully booted then I can go to the next system. The bottom line of all this is that if you just have one computer system, even if it is on steroids, 15A will most likely be fine. wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:15:58 -0500, "David DeBoer" wrote: Hello, I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Thanks for any thoughts... It really depends on what you mean by "computer equipment". BB |
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#24
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I'm sure that if I came in and just threw a switch and had everything all
come on at the same time, the CB would just laugh at me and say "uh, NO!", What happens when the power company "throws the switch"? The real question is if you are running a NEW circuit, would you run 15 or 20. Since the cost difference is negligible why wouldn't you run the 20? The 15a breaker in your outlet/surge strip will give you that 15a protection people wanted but you can still have some excess capacity at the wall for other equipment. |
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#25
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I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I
need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Careful here. You can't use a 20A breaker unless _everything_ leading to the plug and the plug itself is rated at 20A. That means using 12-guage wire and a 20A rated plug (it has one prong socket that looks like a T). If you have have more than one outlet on that breaker, they must _all_ be rated at 20A and _all_ wire connecting them must be 12-guage. You're probably better off with two 15A breakers. You can use 14-3 wire to run two circuits through one cable as long as each of the hot wires is on a different phase. With this set-up, usually all top plugs are on one circuit and all bottom plugs are on the other making it easier for a person plugging things in to balance the load. Of course, tripping one will necessarily trip the other since it is required to have both trip together. I got a "Simplified Electrical Code" book from Home Depot before I did my work. It's really quite easy, but there are a lot of requirements. I have 240A (at 120V) coming in to my kitchen -- I have only 200A (at 120V) service to my house! But that's code for a kitchen... And whatever you do... Get a permit and get it inspected!!! It cost me $140 for a permit for my kitchen, including both inspections (one "rough-in" before the drywall went up and one when it was all complete). If you ever had a fire and there was even the posibility it had to do with uninspected work, your insurance company could refuse to pay. Here's a simple experiment you can try yourself: Get a bunch of strings of christmas lights, whose combined draw "should" equal 15 amps. Plug them in series with the last one plugged into a 15 amp outlet. Watch the clock and let me know how long before the wires (not the lamps) heat up enough to ignite something like tissue paper or even newsprint. Surprise! In many cases that will occur without the circuit breaker ever popping. If you can, check the temperature along the length of the light strings, as well as the house wiring. Very true, but that's not the problem of the breaker. The breaker is designed to protect the parts of the circuit that are hidden within the structure of the house (i.e. wiring and outlets). If you plug a 1/4 watt 10 ohm resitor in to an outlet, you're perfectly within the limits of the circuit, but I guarantee that you'll see some nice fireworks from the resistor. Anybody know what guage Christmas light wire is? Probably 16-gauge stranded, good for 10A, as I recall. Brian ( ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's not the days in your life, but the life in your days that counts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( Couldn't verify my signature? Use http://www.precidia.com/precidia.crt ) |
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#26
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When you ask basic electrical questions like this, it indicates you may not
have enough knowledge to be "safe" around electricity. Therefore, expect numerous suggestions to "seek professional help". If the wiring you plan to install from the distribution panel to outlets for your computer and other "stuff" is 14 gauge, then you MUST use a 15 amp breaker for each circuit. (The breaker protects the wire from carrying too much current and possibly overheating). Expect to have no more than about 1800 watts available. That's the reason the suggestion was made to get the wattage from each nameplate on the equipment and total them. If you use 12 gauge wire (which is bigger) you must use a 20 amp breaker. This will give you about 2400 watts of capacity. Actually, you don't. Your breaker must be rated at the minimum component on the circuit. You could use 1ga wire if you wanted, but if you had one 15A outlet or one piece of 14ga wire, then the breaker cannot be rated more than 15A. Don't forget that outlets have ratings on them, too! If you have a 20A breaker, you need to use 20A outlets. Note that this only applies to the "permanent" parts of the circuit. What you plug in to those outlets is up to you. As an aside... Running multiple circuits "ganged" together (where the wires run adjacent) reduces the rating even further since they do not have the full surface area to dissipate heat. Brian ( ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. -- JC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( Couldn't verify my signature? Use http://www.precidia.com/precidia.crt ) |
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#27
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:19:35 -0500, Brian White
wrote: I would like to put my computer equipment on its own circuit. Would I need a 15 or 20 amp breaker to do this? Are there any restrictions as far as how many breakers can be in the box? I know there is room for more. What gauge wiring would this require? Careful here. You can't use a 20A breaker unless _everything_ leading to the plug and the plug itself is rated at 20A. That means using 12-guage wire and a 20A rated plug (it has one prong socket that looks like a T). Unless you are specifically know that specific receptacle is going to need to be rated 20 amps, you use a 15 amp receptacle. Just incase you want to look it up: http://www.urlbee.com?358 last question, references the table on page 70-56 hth, If you have have more than one outlet on that breaker, they must _all_ be rated at 20A and _all_ wire connecting them must be 12-guage. You're probably better off with two 15A breakers. You can use 14-3 wire to run two circuits through one cable as long as each of the hot wires is on a different phase. With this set-up, usually all top plugs are on one circuit and all bottom plugs are on the other making it easier for a person plugging things in to balance the load. Of course, tripping one will necessarily trip the other since it is required to have both trip together. I got a "Simplified Electrical Code" book from Home Depot before I did my work. It's really quite easy, but there are a lot of requirements. I have 240A (at 120V) coming in to my kitchen -- I have only 200A (at 120V) service to my house! But that's code for a kitchen... And whatever you do... Get a permit and get it inspected!!! It cost me $140 for a permit for my kitchen, including both inspections (one "rough-in" before the drywall went up and one when it was all complete). If you ever had a fire and there was even the posibility it had to do with uninspected work, your insurance company could refuse to pay. Here's a simple experiment you can try yourself: Get a bunch of strings of christmas lights, whose combined draw "should" equal 15 amps. Plug them in series with the last one plugged into a 15 amp outlet. Watch the clock and let me know how long before the wires (not the lamps) heat up enough to ignite something like tissue paper or even newsprint. Surprise! In many cases that will occur without the circuit breaker ever popping. If you can, check the temperature along the length of the light strings, as well as the house wiring. Very true, but that's not the problem of the breaker. The breaker is designed to protect the parts of the circuit that are hidden within the structure of the house (i.e. wiring and outlets). If you plug a 1/4 watt 10 ohm resitor in to an outlet, you're perfectly within the limits of the circuit, but I guarantee that you'll see some nice fireworks from the resistor. Anybody know what guage Christmas light wire is? Probably 16-gauge stranded, good for 10A, as I recall. Brian ( ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's not the days in your life, but the life in your days that counts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( Couldn't verify my signature? Use http://www.precidia.com/precidia.crt ) |
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#28
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:29:54 -0500, Brian White
wrote: When you ask basic electrical questions like this, it indicates you may not have enough knowledge to be "safe" around electricity. Therefore, expect numerous suggestions to "seek professional help". If the wiring you plan to install from the distribution panel to outlets for your computer and other "stuff" is 14 gauge, then you MUST use a 15 amp breaker for each circuit. (The breaker protects the wire from carrying too much current and possibly overheating). Expect to have no more than about 1800 watts available. That's the reason the suggestion was made to get the wattage from each nameplate on the equipment and total them. If you use 12 gauge wire (which is bigger) you must use a 20 amp breaker. This will give you about 2400 watts of capacity. Actually, you don't. Your breaker must be rated at the minimum component on the circuit. You could use 1ga wire if you wanted, but if you had one 15A outlet or one piece of 14ga wire, then the breaker cannot be rated more than 15A. Don't forget that outlets have ratings on them, too! If you have a 20A breaker, you need to use 20A outlets. Unless you are specifically know that specific receptacle is going to need to be rated 20 amps, you use a 15 amp receptacle. Just incase you want to look it up: http://www.urlbee.com?358 last question, references the table on page 70-56 hth, Note that this only applies to the "permanent" parts of the circuit. What you plug in to those outlets is up to you. As an aside... Running multiple circuits "ganged" together (where the wires run adjacent) reduces the rating even further since they do not have the full surface area to dissipate heat. Brian ( ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. -- JC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( Couldn't verify my signature? Use http://www.precidia.com/precidia.crt ) |
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#29
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This "15 amp receptacle" thing comes up about once a week around here.
For the record. all receptacles listed in the US are 20a rated for feed through. It is only the individual socket that is 15a rated on a NEMA 5-15 and that corresponds to the 15a plug that will fit in it. As long as you have more than one outlet you can put a 15a on a 20a circuit. A standard duplex receptacle is TWO outlets. The split wired kitchen receptacle thing is in Canada, not the US. I believe they also have the rule about 15a receptacles NOT being on 20a circuits. Maybe we should always preface our comments with NEC or CEC. |
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#30
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From: "TURTLE"
"Greg" wrote in message ... #14-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type Y'all up thar in Looziana ain't got THHN Romex yet? The rest of the country got it in about 85-86. This is Turtle. We are still tring to get a complete copy of the NEC code without somebody getting a kick back on it in the State Government. We have a ex-governor, Treasurer, Insurance Commisioner, and Gambling Commisioner in Federal prison right now and tring to send some more. They had stolen billions but got cought with some chump change of $600,000,000.00 kick back on one casino kick back job. The Governor was stupid enough to take $1/4 mil. down payment in cash while in Los Vagas to cover some fun on the tables. He took it from a Federal Agent. He got 8 years for stealing 4.1 Billion dollars and taking $6 Mil. from Getty oil company on a law suite by his law firm. When Texeco bought out Getty oil company the state forgive Texeco about the kick back. They still have not got the money back yet for it is all in over sea's banks under different names. They did find some in the Bank of France. He was a starched Democrate and staied the course during the trial. Also they got him in a Federal prison about 1 mile from my house to be near family and friends. The Rotary club here ask the Federal prison for Edwards to speak at one of their Rotary club meetings and was turned down. I guess money talks. TURTLE Allrighty then, you just go ahead and use that little piece of #14 on a 20a circuit then! It'll be the least of your problems! =:-) |
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#31
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"HaHaHa" wrote in message ... From: "TURTLE" "Greg" wrote in message ... #14-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type Y'all up thar in Looziana ain't got THHN Romex yet? The rest of the country got it in about 85-86. This is Turtle. We are still tring to get a complete copy of the NEC code without somebody getting a kick back on it in the State Government. We have a ex-governor, Treasurer, Insurance Commisioner, and Gambling Commisioner in Federal prison right now and tring to send some more. They had stolen billions but got cought with some chump change of $600,000,000.00 kick back on one casino kick back job. The Governor was stupid enough to take $1/4 mil. down payment in cash while in Los Vagas to cover some fun on the tables. He took it from a Federal Agent. He got 8 years for stealing 4.1 Billion dollars and taking $6 Mil. from Getty oil company on a law suite by his law firm. When Texeco bought out Getty oil company the state forgive Texeco about the kick back. They still have not got the money back yet for it is all in over sea's banks under different names. They did find some in the Bank of France. He was a starched Democrate and staied the course during the trial. Also they got him in a Federal prison about 1 mile from my house to be near family and friends. The Rotary club here ask the Federal prison for Edwards to speak at one of their Rotary club meetings and was turned down. I guess money talks. TURTLE Allrighty then, you just go ahead and use that little piece of #14 on a 20a circuit then! It'll be the least of your problems! This is Turtle. Hap Hazard , You do read well do you. You did not read the wire size verses the breaker sixe write up did you ? Go two post back up and read it again. You need to get out more often and see them Electric wires more. Also take some reading lessons for that would not hurt at all. TURTLE |
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#32
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#33
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Greg wrote:
I'm sure that if I came in and just threw a switch and had everything all come on at the same time, the CB would just laugh at me and say "uh, NO!", What happens when the power company "throws the switch"? The real question is if you are running a NEW circuit, would you run 15 or 20. Since the cost difference is negligible why wouldn't you run the 20? The 15a breaker in your outlet/surge strip will give you that 15a protection people wanted but you can still have some excess capacity at the wall for other equipment. I have no idea what the difference in cost would be if an electrician did the work, but the cost difference between 14 and 12 gauge wire is really minimal. I would never wire anything with less than 12 gauge wire even if using a 15 A breaker. In fact, I would use 10 gauge for any long runs or if I anticipated a large amperage motor being used; the only problem is that 10 gauge tends to be a bitch to work with. Newer vacuums draw at least 12 amps and can lower the voltage sufficiently to dim lights. Compounding the voltage drop problem is they have really long cords of fairly low gauge and that can't be good for the motor. As a factual point, our Hoover is rated at 12 A but the appliance cord is stamped 17/2. Hoover must know something different, because the appliance cord should be a minimum of 14 gauge for a 3 percent voltage drop at the motor. |
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#34
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:36:09 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"
wrote: Greg wrote: I'm sure that if I came in and just threw a switch and had everything all come on at the same time, the CB would just laugh at me and say "uh, NO!", What happens when the power company "throws the switch"? The real question is if you are running a NEW circuit, would you run 15 or 20. Since the cost difference is negligible why wouldn't you run the 20? The 15a breaker in your outlet/surge strip will give you that 15a protection people wanted but you can still have some excess capacity at the wall for other equipment. I have no idea what the difference in cost would be if an electrician did the work, but the cost difference between 14 and 12 gauge wire is really minimal. I would never wire anything with less than 12 gauge wire even if using a 15 A breaker. In fact, I would use 10 gauge for any long runs or if I anticipated a large amperage motor being used; the only problem is that 10 gauge tends to be a bitch to work with. Newer vacuums draw at least 12 amps and can lower the voltage sufficiently to dim lights. Compounding the voltage drop problem is they have really long cords of fairly low gauge and that can't be good for the motor. As a factual point, our Hoover is rated at 12 A but the appliance cord is stamped 17/2. Hoover must know something different, because the appliance cord should be a minimum of 14 gauge for a 3 percent voltage drop at the motor. IMHO: Some very good points about preventing voltage drop, but having the attitude of always going with a higher gauge wire is very costly and not necessary. 14 awg wire is 'rated' for 20 amps(even higher depending on what temp you calc for, I know I must use the 60C per NEC), but being a small guage wire it falles under NEC 240.4(d) saying I can only use 14 awg for a 15A circuit( 25% cut). So, the breaker is the most limiting device in the circuit and now it makes no sense to just spend money on the cable by going to a higher size. Infact it's already built into the code, instead of using 14awg for a 20a branch, you are forced to use 12awg, so why further restrict your self to using 12 awg for a 15a if nothing else tells you to do so? What I woudl do if I had to money to burn, run an isolated ground, and install tvss's to protect the computer equipment. later, tom @ URLBee.com |
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#35
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Vacuum cleaner cord has it's own listing category (type SVxx) and the
motor/cord assembly is an engineered system. The voltage drop is taken into account when they design a vacuum. In fact you would violate the listing if you did put a 14 ga cord on one. It really has nothing to do with what we are talking about here |
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#36
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This "15 amp receptacle" thing comes up about once a week around here.
For the record. all receptacles listed in the US are 20a rated for feed through. It is only the individual socket that is 15a rated on a NEMA 5-15 and that corresponds to the 15a plug that will fit in it. As long as you have more than one outlet you can put a 15a on a 20a circuit. A standard duplex receptacle is TWO outlets. If they're rated for 20A feed-through, then that's the rating that matters since a single appliance cannot draw more than 15A without having a different plug configuration. The split wired kitchen receptacle thing is in Canada, not the US. I believe they also have the rule about 15a receptacles NOT being on 20a circuits. Maybe we should always preface our comments with NEC or CEC. It's the code in Ontario; I can't say for sure what it is in the rest of Canada, but it's probably the same since I believe Ontario pretty much copies that federal recommendations. It's always a good idea to check your local building codes, though, because there are differences. Brian ( ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No man dies except he who has not lived. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( Couldn't verify my signature? Use http://www.precidia.com/precidia.crt ) |
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#37
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Vacuum cleaner cord has it's own listing category (type SVxx) and the
motor/cord assembly is an engineered system. The voltage drop is taken into account when they design a vacuum. In fact you would violate the listing if you did put a 14 ga cord on one. It really has nothing to do with what we are talking about here Hmmm... 17GA wire has a resistance of about 5ohms/1000ft(*). Assuming a 10ft vaccum cord, you have have about 0.1ohm of total resistance. Thus, you would dissipate about 12A*12A*0.1ohm = 14.4Watts of heat during operation (over the length of the cord) and have a voltage drop at the motor of 12A*0.1ohm = 1.2V. 14GA wire has about 1/2 the resistance and thus would dissipate 1/2 the amount of heat and 1/2 the voltage drop. Would a 0.6V change in voltage at the motor really violate the listing? (*) I'm assuming that the rating of 5ohm/1000ft is for single conductor and not the "round trip" (i.e. double) distance. If I'm wrong, cut the calculated numbers in half. Brian ( ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "smart"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( Couldn't verify my signature? Use http://www.precidia.com/precidia.crt ) |
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#38
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From: "TURTLE"
"HaHaHa" wrote in message ... From: "TURTLE" "Greg" wrote in message ... #14-2 with nake Ground , Romex TW type Y'all up thar in Looziana ain't got THHN Romex yet? The rest of the country got it in about 85-86. This is Turtle. We are still tring to get a complete copy of the NEC code without somebody getting a kick back on it in the State Government. We have a ex-governor, Treasurer, Insurance Commisioner, and Gambling Commisioner in Federal prison right now and tring to send some more. They had stolen billions but got cought with some chump change of $600,000,000.00 kick back on one casino kick back job. The Governor was stupid enough to take $1/4 mil. down payment in cash while in Los Vagas to cover some fun on the tables. He took it from a Federal Agent. He got 8 years for stealing 4.1 Billion dollars and taking $6 Mil. from Getty oil company on a law suite by his law firm. When Texeco bought out Getty oil company the state forgive Texeco about the kick back. They still have not got the money back yet for it is all in over sea's banks under different names. They did find some in the Bank of France. He was a starched Democrate and staied the course during the trial. Also they got him in a Federal prison about 1 mile from my house to be near family and friends. The Rotary club here ask the Federal prison for Edwards to speak at one of their Rotary club meetings and was turned down. I guess money talks. TURTLE Allrighty then, you just go ahead and use that little piece of #14 on a 20a circuit then! It'll be the least of your problems! This is Turtle. Hap Hazard , You do read well do you. You did not read the wire size verses the breaker sixe write up did you ? Go two post back up and read it again. You need to get out more often and see them Electric wires more. Also take some reading lessons for that would not hurt at all. TURTLE Geez Turtle, dontcha know facitious when you read it? Thinkin' ya might not I even added a little =:-) to help clue you in. Lighten up 'tis the season for whatever your season is for. Besides... the discussion a few posts up doesn't negate the NEC. |
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#39
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Greg wrote:
Vacuum cleaner cord has it's own listing category (type SVxx) and the motor/cord assembly is an engineered system. The voltage drop is taken into account when they design a vacuum. In fact you would violate the listing if you did put a 14 ga cord on one. It really has nothing to do with what we are talking about here OH? You put fifty feet of #17 wire on a 12 A motor and then plug it into a house wire that is #14 and 110 feet from the panel. Ok, right, who cares. Oh, you might want to switch that vacuum for a 12 a table saw. |
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#40
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George E. Cawthon wrote:
Greg wrote: Vacuum cleaner cord has it's own listing category (type SVxx) and the motor/cord assembly is an engineered system. The voltage drop is taken into account when they design a vacuum. In fact you would violate the listing if you did put a 14 ga cord on one. It really has nothing to do with what we are talking about here OH? You put fifty feet of #17 wire on a 12 A motor and then plug it into a house wire that is #14 and 110 feet from the panel. Ok, right, who cares. Oh, you might want to switch that vacuum for a 12 a table saw. In that case, the motor is designed to run at the lower voltage you get from the voltage drop of long cord. (maybe it's a 105V motor) Bob |
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