I like to know what type of experices others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC due
to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW we are in
Saint Louis


Thanks for all the help

jim

ECKHARDT wrote:
I like to know what type of experiences others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC due
to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW we are in
Saint Louis


Thanks for all the help

jim

Jim

Be aware that cable phone service is dependent on electric power for
continuity of service. When you loose electric power you will be
without telephone service. If you put your home equipment on an
Uninterruptible Power Supply, or UPS, then your phone will work for as
long as the UPS battery and the batteries in your cable companies line
amplifiers hold out. Once the line amplifiers' batteries go dead then
there is nothing that you can do to keep your telephone service working.
You should plan to have some sort of back up telephone service. Cell
phones may serve if the cell sites near your home have long duration
batteries or emergency generators. Keeping one telephone line with the
baby bell carrier is another way to assure service. POTS, or plain old
telephone service, is powered by battery current over the copper wires
from the exchange. Even if there is a controlled environment vault
(CEV) between you and the exchange those vaults have seventy two hours
of battery capacity and they are equipped with a portable generator
connection. The baby bells are pretty good at maintaining service
continuity under power failure conditions. For POTS service to work for
you under power failure conditions you must have at least one phone in
your home that does not require electrical power. A cordless phone will
not work without electric power at your home.

In the aftermath of hurricane Isabelle we were without power for eight
days. Our neighbors who had cable telephone service lost their phone
service after the first full day without power. My Verizon service
never faltered. Even my DSL service worked when I powered the modem
from an inverter and connected in my lap top with the battery charged
from a car adapter.
--
Tom H

Someone named ECKHARDT Proclaimed on Sat, 02
Oct 2004 14:00:12 GMT,

I like to know what type of experices others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC due
to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW we are in
Saint Louis


If you have a monitored security system it may *not* be able to dial
out with that service.


-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

G. Morgan wrote:
Someone named ECKHARDT Proclaimed on Sat, 02
Oct 2004 14:00:12 GMT,

I like to know what type of experices others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC
due to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW
we are in Saint Louis


If you have a monitored security system it may *not* be able to dial
out with that service.

Why not? To everything downstream from the modem, the service looks exactly
like a regular telephone service.

Someone named "JerryMouse" Proclaimed on Sat, 2
Oct 2004 16:08:32 -0500,

Why not? To everything downstream from the modem, the service looks exactly
like a regular telephone service.

Because it is VoIP service. The tones that are generated by ContactID
and SIA (alarm transmission protocols) are in a frequency range that
VoIP can sometimes not reproduce faithfully. The VoIP is designed for
voice transmission. We're running into the same problem with services
like Vonage too.


-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

G. Morgan wrote in message ...
Someone named ECKHARDT Proclaimed on Sat, 02
Oct 2004 14:00:12 GMT,

I like to know what type of experices others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC due
to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW we are in
Saint Louis


If you have a monitored security system it may *not* be able to dial
out with that service.


-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Why wouldn't a monitored security system be able to dial out with
internet phone service? The systems provided by the cable companies
look like just a regular phone line from the phones in the house and
the numbers are dialed the same way.

The whole internet vs telco phone service issue is really not
understood by most people. They think there is some big technology
break through that leads to the cost savings. Like the internet is
magically more efficient at moving bits around. The reality is, it's
simply a tarrif avoidance issue. If internet calls were to be
tarrifed like regular calls, most of the cost savings would disappear.

For the average person today, I don't think it's worth it for several
reasons. One is call quality. Internet calls get routed like all
internet traffic, so you can't be sure what kind of quality you'll get
on a given call. With telco calls you have a dedicated connection
with guaranteed real-time delivery. There is the power outage issue.
There is the issue of having to install a box that goes between your
phone lines and the cable and one more piece of eqpt to go bad or to
figure who's going to come fix it and for how much. And there is the
issue of giving more business to cable companies, which most people
don't like very much, one issue being customer service.

I can see internet phone service being worthwhile if you do a lot of
calls, especially international, but that's about it.

I think some responders are confused. My cable company Comcast offers phone
service but it is separate from the internet service and not VOIP.

It works well and you can dial out using a modem etc.. with VOIP most
systems cannot handle a fax call or modem.

Wayne

"Chet Hayes" wrote in message
om...
G. Morgan wrote in message
...
Someone named ECKHARDT Proclaimed on Sat, 02
Oct 2004 14:00:12 GMT,

I like to know what type of experices others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC due
to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW we are in
Saint Louis


If you have a monitored security system it may *not* be able to dial
out with that service.


-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Why wouldn't a monitored security system be able to dial out with
internet phone service? The systems provided by the cable companies
look like just a regular phone line from the phones in the house and
the numbers are dialed the same way.

The whole internet vs telco phone service issue is really not
understood by most people. They think there is some big technology
break through that leads to the cost savings. Like the internet is
magically more efficient at moving bits around. The reality is, it's
simply a tarrif avoidance issue. If internet calls were to be
tarrifed like regular calls, most of the cost savings would disappear.

For the average person today, I don't think it's worth it for several
reasons. One is call quality. Internet calls get routed like all
internet traffic, so you can't be sure what kind of quality you'll get
on a given call. With telco calls you have a dedicated connection
with guaranteed real-time delivery. There is the power outage issue.
There is the issue of having to install a box that goes between your
phone lines and the cable and one more piece of eqpt to go bad or to
figure who's going to come fix it and for how much. And there is the
issue of giving more business to cable companies, which most people
don't like very much, one issue being customer service.

I can see internet phone service being worthwhile if you do a lot of
calls, especially international, but that's about it.

"Chet Hayes" wrote in message



There is the power outage issue.
There is the issue of having to install a box that goes between your
phone lines and the cable and one more piece of eqpt to go bad or to
figure who's going to come fix it and for how much.

That is a big issue. When power goes out, you usually still have phone
service. It does not depend on just one wire from your house to the cable
company. Phone lines can route themselves around trouble spots. My phone is
much more reliable than my cable.

Someone named (Chet Hayes) Proclaimed on 2 Oct
2004 16:24:49 -0700,

Why wouldn't a monitored security system be able to dial out with
internet phone service? The systems provided by the cable companies
look like just a regular phone line from the phones in the house and
the numbers are dialed the same way.

Taken from the Ademco website FAQ:

Can I use Voice over IP to report alarm signals?
FAQ 23890466
While Voice Over IP (VOIP) has it's place in the world of
communications, it is not yet suitable for traditional Alarm Industry
reporting. ADEMCO's alarm controls are not designed to work on VOIP
whether it's 3+1, 4+2, Contact ID, or any other format our panels
might use. Any attempt to do so is to be taken at your own risk. We
cannot support this mode of communication on our equipment at this
time. The symptoms you might experience would be transmission errors
and/or slow-sounding TouchTones as well as timing errors during
dialing and/or during the message itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the time of this FAQ (5/21/2004) we are working with many cable
companies to help insure that their VOIP implementations are capable
of working correctly.






-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Someone named "wayne" Proclaimed on Sat, 02 Oct
2004 23:34:04 GMT,

I think some responders are confused. My cable company Comcast offers phone
service but it is separate from the internet service and not VOIP.

So you're saying Comcast in your area offers *analog* phone service?


-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Actually it is "digital" phone service but not VOIP they have a box that
goes from the telephone junction box to the cable box and the signal is
converted there.

http://comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/Faq2_168_0.html

Wayne

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Someone named "wayne" Proclaimed on Sat, 02 Oct
2004 23:34:04 GMT,

I think some responders are confused. My cable company Comcast offers
phone
service but it is separate from the internet service and not VOIP.

So you're saying Comcast in your area offers *analog* phone service?


-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Someone named "wayne" Proclaimed on Sun, 03 Oct
2004 02:51:23 GMT,

Actually it is "digital" phone service but not VOIP they have a box that
goes from the telephone junction box to the cable box and the signal is
converted there.


Sir, I do believe the "cable box" is essentially a cable modem. And
the signal is digitized and sent over an IP network, using the VoIP
protocol.




-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

nope different technology you do not even have to have cable service to have
the telephone service the VOIP requires a SIP box that is inside your house
that gives you one POTS line Fax and alarm systems do not work with VOIP
neither do regular modems. they all work fine with the Comcast system.
Caller ID and 911 also work fine. VOIP usually has very low prices for long
distance packages as well as international the Comcast system is comparable
to the regular phone company here

here is a blurb about it, it is called circuit switched?

full article here
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040728/phw003_1.html

As expected, cable phone revenue declined 13.8% from the second quarter of
2003 to $177 million in the second quarter of 2004, reflecting a 10.4%
decrease in subscribers to 1.2 million and a 3.0% decline in average monthly
revenue per subscriber to $47.71. Excluding telephone revenue, which is
expected to decline throughout 2004, total revenue for Comcast Cable in the
second quarter of 2004 increased 11.6%. Telephone results reflect the
Company's focus on profitability, not unit growth, of the acquired
circuit-switched telephone business as it begins to transition to VoIP phone
service.

Wayne


"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Someone named "wayne" Proclaimed on Sun, 03 Oct
2004 02:51:23 GMT,

Actually it is "digital" phone service but not VOIP they have a box that
goes from the telephone junction box to the cable box and the signal is
converted there.


Sir, I do believe the "cable box" is essentially a cable modem. And
the signal is digitized and sent over an IP network, using the VoIP
protocol.




-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

Someone named "wayne" Proclaimed on Sun, 03 Oct
2004 03:33:52 GMT,

here is a blurb about it, it is called circuit switched?


Ahhhhh.. I see what you're talking about now. That is the service the
article you cited was "aquired", from AT&T Broadband. I didn't know
about that. That is on it's way out now - as evidenced in this
article in Cable World, March 10,2003:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...15/ai_98654947

It took me some searching but you're right, here's what I found on the
"circuit-switched" or "CBR" service:

http://www.vonage.com/corporate/pres...R=2003_08_01_5

"Adding phone service has strengthened the bundles even more. Cox
reports that in an area where its video-only churn rate was 1.7
percent in 2001, the churn rate for customers taking video, data, and
voice service as a bundle was 0.8 percent, less than half. Some
players, such as AT&T Broadband - now part of Comcast Corp.- and Cox,
moved into telephony several years ago. They were able to do this by
using constant bit rate (CBR), or circuit-switched service, which
relies on traditional Class 5 telecom switching.
The advent of new technologies such as IPbased or packetized voice
along with the evolving capabilities of cable platforms allows
cablecos to expand CBR phone systems less-expensively with IP or
deploy pure IP telephony systems. All the top cable MSOs and a large
percentage of smaller cablecos, have been testing VoIP infrastructure.
Many have been conducting field and marketing trials. A few even have
full rollouts."


According to Comcast they are going to maintain the CBR clients, but
seek no new ones. Everything is going VoIP my friend. The good news
is with high-speed access already in the house, you won't need that
old 56k modem. The bad news is systems that rely on constant
connection (no packets) like security system dialers, and FAX machines
will suffer hit-and-miss operation due to timing (frequency) issues.


Regards,



-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

That about covers it whereas VOIP from home can be a bit shaky as far as
voice quality and the fact that you have to backfeed the signal to have it
work with all the jacks the CBR service works very well with great quality
and very good dialup connection rates. I configure laptops at home as part
of my job as all the phones at work are digital on a pbx. I take them home
get them configured then make sure everything works before I give them out I
always get great connection rates on dialup. I just wish they did not
charge so much. I would change to voip in a heartbeat though for how much I
use my phone except that DishNetwork requires a phone line for their box or
pay 5 bucks more/month that is about what my savings would be so I am still
waiting hoping they come out with an internet based connection for the boxes
would make a lot more sense and save them from having a huge modem bank for
phone lines.

Wayne

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
Someone named "wayne" Proclaimed on Sun, 03 Oct
2004 03:33:52 GMT,

here is a blurb about it, it is called circuit switched?


Ahhhhh.. I see what you're talking about now. That is the service the
article you cited was "aquired", from AT&T Broadband. I didn't know
about that. That is on it's way out now - as evidenced in this
article in Cable World, March 10,2003:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...15/ai_98654947

It took me some searching but you're right, here's what I found on the
"circuit-switched" or "CBR" service:

http://www.vonage.com/corporate/pres...R=2003_08_01_5

"Adding phone service has strengthened the bundles even more. Cox
reports that in an area where its video-only churn rate was 1.7
percent in 2001, the churn rate for customers taking video, data, and
voice service as a bundle was 0.8 percent, less than half. Some
players, such as AT&T Broadband - now part of Comcast Corp.- and Cox,
moved into telephony several years ago. They were able to do this by
using constant bit rate (CBR), or circuit-switched service, which
relies on traditional Class 5 telecom switching.
The advent of new technologies such as IPbased or packetized voice
along with the evolving capabilities of cable platforms allows
cablecos to expand CBR phone systems less-expensively with IP or
deploy pure IP telephony systems. All the top cable MSOs and a large
percentage of smaller cablecos, have been testing VoIP infrastructure.
Many have been conducting field and marketing trials. A few even have
full rollouts."


According to Comcast they are going to maintain the CBR clients, but
seek no new ones. Everything is going VoIP my friend. The good news
is with high-speed access already in the house, you won't need that
old 56k modem. The bad news is systems that rely on constant
connection (no packets) like security system dialers, and FAX machines
will suffer hit-and-miss operation due to timing (frequency) issues.


Regards,



-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email

wrote:
On 2 Oct 2004 16:24:49 -0700, (Chet Hayes)
wrote:


Why wouldn't a monitored security system be able to dial out with
internet phone service? The systems provided by the cable companies
look like just a regular phone line from the phones in the house and
the numbers are dialed the same way.


But they are not - they are digital after they move from the phone
through the adaptor and not analog again until they are transmitted to
the receiving phone.

I have Charter broadband, and have had 4 outages since last Christmas.
The first time, when I finally got thru to the (two?) folks at the
helpdesk, they said that they could come out and take a look in about 10
days. (???!!!) the 2nd, the estimate was far better only 6 days. do
you really want to be without phone service for that long? When's the
last time you lost dial tone with SBC?

G. Morgan wrote in message ...
Someone named (Chet Hayes) Proclaimed on 2 Oct
2004 16:24:49 -0700,

Why wouldn't a monitored security system be able to dial out with
internet phone service? The systems provided by the cable companies
look like just a regular phone line from the phones in the house and
the numbers are dialed the same way.

Taken from the Ademco website FAQ:

Can I use Voice over IP to report alarm signals?
FAQ 23890466
While Voice Over IP (VOIP) has it's place in the world of
communications, it is not yet suitable for traditional Alarm Industry
reporting. ADEMCO's alarm controls are not designed to work on VOIP
whether it's 3+1, 4+2, Contact ID, or any other format our panels
might use. Any attempt to do so is to be taken at your own risk. We
cannot support this mode of communication on our equipment at this
time. The symptoms you might experience would be transmission errors
and/or slow-sounding TouchTones as well as timing errors during
dialing and/or during the message itself.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the time of this FAQ (5/21/2004) we are working with many cable
companies to help insure that their VOIP implementations are capable
of working correctly.






-Graham

Remove the 'snails' from my email


Thanks for that info, it's interesting. I was thinking of it
primarily from the alarm getting access to the phone line and dialing
the monitoring station, which should be transparent. However, I
forgot they also have to send some brie info, like what zone, who's
calling, etc. I guess that info is trasmitted either via tones or
some type of modem technology. So, it would make sense that there
could be issues with VOIP.

"ECKHARDT" wrote:
I like to know what type of experices others have had Charter phone
service and Charter High-Speed internet. We are going to leave SBC due
to fact that the can not fix cross wire in theier system. BTW we are in
Saint Louis

As others have said, you probably want to keep at least a regular phone line
for emergencies. (I have regular local calls, no long distance carrier (by
the way, AT&T is EVIL); I place a local call to a computer to place
long-distance calls via VOIP. If that went down, I could use a carrier
access code in case of emergency...)

That said, I just recently started using Charter High-Speed. I've only had
it about a month so far, but I haven't had any problems at all. One thing
to be aware of is that, when you call to sign up, they _only_ quote you
their standard price--if you get a flier offering a better deal, or see
something on their web site, you need to ask for it specifically. Seems a
little screwy to me.

-D.