My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew Richman wrote:
My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?

Thanks,

Andrew

There are 1440 minutes in a day. I expect the refilling flow rate of a
typical toilet is somewhere around 2-3 gallons a minute with the fill
valve wide open. That'd occur if the flap valve was stuck open so all
the water was going down the drain and the toilet's fill valve never
shut off.

So, it's possible to use well over a thousand gallons a day on that kind
of leaking toilet, but you'd have to be deaf not to notice it yourself.

If it's the more common slight leak past a deteriorated flap valve, the
daily usage will be a LOT less than that.

It's not rocket science to calculate that stuff out yourself. For the
first case you could measure how long it takes the toilet to refill with
a properly closed flap valve and just measure the dimensions of the
tank and the height the water refills to, then calculate what the flow
rate had to have been. (There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon.)

For the second case you could prop or tie the float valve up so the fill
valve was closed and measure how long it took for the water level in the
tank do drop a few inches, then do the math.

Capiche?

************************************************** *

More to the point, have you watched your water meter for an hour or so
with everything using water in your house shut off? It shouldn't move at
all under those conditions. If it does, start looking for a leak.

Is your house built on a slab with waterpipes from after the meter
running under the concrete? It's not uncommon for leaks to develop there
where they may not be noticed. I hope for you sake thats' not the case,
because repairing those kind of leaks takes MUCHO dinero.

HTH,

Jeff

--
My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message....

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

Last winter I had occasion to force a small leak in three of our toilets.
The bathrooms in this two family attached house are one on in the same line
and the chase that holds the pipes that serve them is adjacent to a vacant,
unheated house. So the pipes were subject to freezing when the temperature
dropped into the teens. We therefore wanted to keep the water flowing at a
trickle at all times to prevent freezing, so I tied a weight to a piece of
string looped around the overflow pipe and placed the string under the
flapper to prevent a perfect seal. In addition, some basin taps were also
open a trickle. Admittedly, this was only for about a dozen days in the 3
month billing period, but we did not notice any major changes in the water
bill. So if this were a small leak, you should not see a 16:1 increase in
usage.
--
Peace,
BobJ

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Andrew Richman wrote:
My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?

Thanks,

Andrew

There are 1440 minutes in a day. I expect the refilling flow rate of a
typical toilet is somewhere around 2-3 gallons a minute with the fill
valve wide open. That'd occur if the flap valve was stuck open so all the
water was going down the drain and the toilet's fill valve never shut off.

So, it's possible to use well over a thousand gallons a day on that kind
of leaking toilet, but you'd have to be deaf not to notice it yourself.

If it's the more common slight leak past a deteriorated flap valve, the
daily usage will be a LOT less than that.

It's not rocket science to calculate that stuff out yourself. For the
first case you could measure how long it takes the toilet to refill with a
properly closed flap valve and just measure the dimensions of the tank and
the height the water refills to, then calculate what the flow rate had to
have been. (There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon.)

For the second case you could prop or tie the float valve up so the fill
valve was closed and measure how long it took for the water level in the
tank do drop a few inches, then do the math.

Capiche?

************************************************** *

More to the point, have you watched your water meter for an hour or so
with everything using water in your house shut off? It shouldn't move at
all under those conditions. If it does, start looking for a leak.

Is your house built on a slab with waterpipes from after the meter running
under the concrete? It's not uncommon for leaks to develop there where
they may not be noticed. I hope for you sake thats' not the case, because
repairing those kind of leaks takes MUCHO dinero.

HTH,

Jeff

--
My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message....

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

You can loose a galon or more a minute through a flapper. Monitor your
meter overnight. Also a previous reading or present may be off.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:43:40 -0500, (m Ransley)
wrote:

You can loose a galon or more a minute through a flapper. Monitor your
meter overnight. Also a previous reading or present may be off.

I read somewhere that a faucet that drips once a second will use 6
gallons a day. Can anyone verify that?

Andy Asberry wrote:


I read somewhere that a faucet that drips once a second will use 6
gallons a day. Can anyone verify that?

If I was still teaching students I'd tell you to inmrove your chances of
getting a "A" from be by doing it yourself, but I'm feeling good today,
and you piqued my curiosity, so here goes. (noblese oblige.)

Googling quickly locates the volume of "a drop" of water. It's .05 ml.
(I suppose that would vary a little with the shape and surface
conditions of what it's dripping off from and the purity of the water
too, but let's use that number for now...)

http://www.alumni.ca/~walkerd/sf7.html

There are 86400 seconds in a day. (A number I'll never be able to forget
because I used to help make atomic clocks for the GPS satellites.)

86,400 * .05ml = 4320 ml

Plugging this in at:

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/volume

Gives us 1.141 gallons, not even 20 percent of what you "read somewhere".

(Don't believe everything you read Andy...)

HTH

Jeff


--
My name is Jeff Wisnia and I approved this message....

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:32:18 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Andy Asberry wrote:


I read somewhere that a faucet that drips once a second will use 6
gallons a day. Can anyone verify that?

If I was still teaching students I'd tell you to inmrove your chances of
getting a "A" from be by doing it yourself, but I'm feeling good today,
and you piqued my curiosity, so here goes. (noblese oblige.)
Heh, heh. If I have to teach myself, all I need a teacher for is to
verify my answer. Or not, it seems. Thanks for the education.

I have another question on this subject but I will do my "homework"
first.

Googling quickly locates the volume of "a drop" of water. It's .05 ml.
(I suppose that would vary a little with the shape and surface
conditions of what it's dripping off from and the purity of the water
too, but let's use that number for now...)

http://www.alumni.ca/~walkerd/sf7.html

There are 86400 seconds in a day. (A number I'll never be able to forget
because I used to help make atomic clocks for the GPS satellites.)

86,400 * .05ml = 4320 ml

Plugging this in at:

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/volume

Gives us 1.141 gallons, not even 20 percent of what you "read somewhere".
My wife reminds me that info came in a city water bill. This was 20 or
so years ago during a drought.

(Don't believe everything you read Andy...)

HTH

Jeff

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:32:18 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Andy Asberry wrote:


I read somewhere that a faucet that drips once a second will use 6
gallons a day. Can anyone verify that?

If I was still teaching students I'd tell you to inmrove your chances of
getting a "A" from be by doing it yourself, but I'm feeling good today,
and you piqued my curiosity, so here goes. (noblese oblige.)

Googling quickly locates the volume of "a drop" of water. It's .05 ml.
(I suppose that would vary a little with the shape and surface
conditions of what it's dripping off from and the purity of the water
too, but let's use that number for now...)

http://www.alumni.ca/~walkerd/sf7.html

There are 86400 seconds in a day. (A number I'll never be able to forget
because I used to help make atomic clocks for the GPS satellites.)

86,400 * .05ml = 4320 ml

Plugging this in at:

http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/volume

Gives us 1.141 gallons, not even 20 percent of what you "read somewhere".

(Don't believe everything you read Andy...)

HTH

Jeff

Jeff, if you are going to correct the papers of the world, you will
have a steady job.

http://energyoutlet.com/res/waterheat/ho****er.html states that 60
drops per minute of HOT water equals 168 gallons/month.

http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/pwork...e/medchome.htm says
190-260/month

http://www.wichita.gov/CityOffices/W...nservation.htm
113/month

http://www.ci.lamar.co.us/drop_by_drop.htm 2400/year

http://www.seo.state.nm.us/water-info/water-trivia.html 192/month

I did learn from this little exercise. I now know that the viscosity
of water at 20 degrees C is 1.0016 centipoise. A word I had never even
heard before.

My new question: How many drops per minute possible from our leaking
faucet before it becomes a stream? Yes, I did search. I've read how to
produce methane gas from cow manure, the most effective spray droplet
size for fire fighting and number of drops of bleach or iodine to
purify water.

)

Andrew Richman wrote:

My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?


Have they rechecked the reading? Sometimes meter-readers make a
mistake. They'll usually send someone out for a recheck, although they
may require that you be present.



Brian

On 23 Sep 2004 14:04:41 -0700, (Andrew
Richman) wrote:

My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?



I had intermittent leakage that was driving me nuts and my bills up.
It was caused by the flapper chain plastic links acquiring a kink now
and then during the flush cycle. The water pressure was strong enough
to keep the flapper down during refill but not let it seat properly
because the single kink in the chain made it slightly shorter. So
there was this unpredictable, moderate but long duration leak that
might correct itself with the next flush.. I could not diagnose the
problem because looking into the mechanism everything looked normal
and functioned normally. Eventually it was a faint but persistent
squirting sound in the plumbing pipes that caught my attention and
traced it to the toilet fill tube. I could only hear this in the
middle of the night when everything was quiet and I lying in bed
unable to sleep. This was quite an achievement as the washroom was
two doors from mine and at my age most people would have hearing loss
problems.

If you figure a leaky toilet at 1 galon a minute, that would be 60 gals an
hour. Or about 2440 galons a day. 6K a day sounds a bit much, but do-able.
If it was running full blast.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Andrew Richman" wrote in message
om...
My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?

Thanks,

Andrew

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
. ..
If you figure a leaky toilet at 1 galon a minute, that would be 60 gals an
hour. Or about 2440 galons a day. 6K a day sounds a bit much, but do-able.
If it was running full blast.

60 * 24 = 1440


Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Andrew Richman" wrote in message
om...
My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?

Thanks,

Andrew

If you decide to replace your toilet flush valve, here is a link to some:

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/ProductList.aspx?ID=918

Check it out...



(Andrew Richman) wrote in message . com...
My water bill went from $25 a month to $400. The utility says that it
was a leaky toilet. I did have a toilet leak during this time, but
could it really use this much? My usage record has me using 1,000
-6,000 gallons a day when I usually use about 50. Could this really
only be a running toilet?

Thanks,

Andrew

Thanks for the help. I am figureing that it is right. The Toilet
must have run full blast on the 6,000 gallon day.

Bummer.

Andrew

"Andrew Richman" wrote:
Thanks for the help. I am figureing that it is right. The Toilet
must have run full blast on the 6,000 gallon day.

Bummer.

Andrew

As others have calculated, even if it were pulling a gallon per minute for a
full 24-hour cycle, it would've only gotten 60*24 = 1440 gallons. You'd
need it to be pulling over four gallons a minute to go through 6000 gallons
in a single day--which would be one impressive john, and very, very
noticeable. I don't think I'd be able to put up with that much noise for a
single flush, not to mention all that noise for 24 hours, running
continuously...

-D.

tree root outside might have broken your supply or irrig main? but you
should see a river running from your yard. maybe the meter's broken

replying to Andrew Richman, Bill wrote:
The water Department said that I used 97,000 gallons in a month, I pay on
average about $67.00 a month. The plumber/inspector said he has seen this
before, he replaced the flapper and valve and the meter showed normal use
after installed.
I have a hearing problem so I did' not hear any water running. Is that really
possible?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...te-554620-.htm

On 9/29/2017 3:14 PM, Bill wrote:
replying to Andrew Richman, Bill wrote:
The water Department said that I used 97,000 gallons in a month, I pay on
average about $67.00 a month.Â* The plumber/inspector said he has seen this
before, he replaced the flapper and valve and the meter showed normal use
after installed.
I have a hearing problem so I did' not hear any water running.Â* Is that
really
possible?


Got me wondering about household water use and easy to google up:

https://www.pwd.org/faqs/how-many-ga...mily-use-month

Maybe you were leaking over a gallon a minute and I would think that
should be audible to person with normal hearing.

Neighbor had your problem with leaky hose and we've all heard of others
having resulted in tremendous water bills.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 29 Sep 2017 15:47:13 -0400, Frank "frank
wrote:

On 9/29/2017 3:14 PM, Bill wrote:
replying to Andrew Richman, Bill wrote:
The water Department said that I used 97,000 gallons in a month, I pay on
average about $67.00 a month.* The plumber/inspector said he has seen this
before, he replaced the flapper and valve and the meter showed normal use
after installed.
I have a hearing problem so I did' not hear any water running.* Is that
really
possible?


Got me wondering about household water use and easy to google up:

https://www.pwd.org/faqs/how-many-ga...mily-use-month

Maybe you were leaking over a gallon a minute and I would think that
should be audible to person with normal hearing.

But he said he doesn't have normal hearing.

Besides not hearing well, one can have tinnitus that always sounds like
running water in a pipe, or some other noise.

But he should/might be able to see ripples or more in the toilet bowl.

Neighbor had your problem with leaky hose and we've all heard of others
having resulted in tremendous water bills.

On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 2:14:09 PM UTC-5, Billboy wrote:

replying to Andrew Richman, Bill wrote:

The water Department said that I used 97,000 gallons in a month, I pay on
average about $67.00 a month. The plumber/inspector said he has seen this
before, he replaced the flapper and valve and the meter showed normal use
after installed.
I have a hearing problem so I did' not hear any water running. Is that really
possible?


for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...te-554620-.htm


Old Billy needs to change his hearing aid batteries and clean his
glasses well as he's replying to a THIRTEEN YEAR OLD post and thru
HomeMoanersHub as well.

Too late dearie, Andrew got so frustrated he ripped out his toilet
and now does his 'business' outdoors in full view of his appalled
neighbors.

On 9/29/2017 4:04 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 2:14:09 PM UTC-5, Billboy wrote:

replying to Andrew Richman, Bill wrote:

The water Department said that I used 97,000 gallons in a month, I pay on
average about $67.00 a month. The plumber/inspector said he has seen this
before, he replaced the flapper and valve and the meter showed normal use
after installed.
I have a hearing problem so I did' not hear any water running. Is that really
possible?


for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...te-554620-.htm


Old Billy needs to change his hearing aid batteries and clean his
glasses well as he's replying to a THIRTEEN YEAR OLD post and thru
HomeMoanersHub as well.

Too late dearie, Andrew got so frustrated he ripped out his toilet
and now does his 'business' outdoors in full view of his appalled
neighbors.


Me too, I guess. It was an interesting question as with a well I never
know how much water I use because there is no monthly water bill.

On 9/29/2017 3:14 PM, Bill wrote:
replying to Andrew Richman, Bill wrote:
The water Department said that I used 97,000 gallons in a month, I pay on
average about $67.00 a month.Â* The plumber/inspector said he has seen this
before, he replaced the flapper and valve and the meter showed normal use
after installed.
I have a hearing problem so I did' not hear any water running.Â* Is that
really
possible?



In spite of being a very old post, it does bring up a problem that any
of us can have. At work I used to read our meter every month. One
month it was about 12,000 gallons more than normal. We found a leaking
toilet. We have about 30 toilets so it is easily missed,

replying to Andrew Richman, Pete wrote:
Andrew. The biggest variable is how fast is it leaking? But even a tiny leak
can blow up your water bill. I have a daycare center with 30 toilets in it.
One month, the water bill, usually around $800 a month, jumped to $1200. We
checked each of the 30 toilets using a red dye (made for the purpose). Pour
some of the red dye into the tank and watch the bowl. Don't flush the toilet.
If red dye starts to appear in the bowl, the toilet is leaking. We found only
two of the 30 toilets were leaking, but those two,. over a one month period,
were enough increase our water bill 50%. We now do a weekly inspection of all
the toilets. Don't let a leaky toilet go. Total waste of money (and water).

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...te-554620-.htm