I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

you might try an oil filled rollaround heater.

Increase wall, crawlspace, and attic insulation, cheapest in the long
run.

Don wrote:
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Where is the thermostat located? Is it in the warm area or the cool
area? Is there something about the cool area that makes it loose heat
faster than the warm area (more windows, uninsulated door, etc.) or does
the heat simply not get to the cool area?

"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.
snip

Gas logs are designed for aethestic purposes only. They are not designed
for heating and are very inefficient at doing so.

When they are installed, it is a common practice to put a stop in the
chimney damper, thus making it impossible to close the flue up. This is to
prevent CO problems, but you then have a constant drain of heat from your
house...straight up the chimney.

Jena

"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

If its a ducted system, I might look into rebalancing the duct work so that
not so much heat is going into the back bedrooms--lets face it, how much
time do you spend in the bedrooms anyways ???

--

SVL

Don wrote:
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

Yea, it is working fine. However was it properly sized, with a properly
designed distribution system and installed properly? The answer is NO. If
it was you would not have part of the house too cold!

You need to get a real tech in to look at the home and do the "Manuals"
needed to find out what you need. You can not fix the problem with a
bandaid.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Don" wrote in message

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6
years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I
have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having
one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone
said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind"

If what you have in the fireplace is what is normally called an
"insert", it IS a wood burning stove. Does it have a fan to
circulate heat around the part hidden in the fireplace? Have you
tried it? I used my insert last year for all the heat in my
house.

In any case, opening the vents where it is cold, and partially
closing those where it is not should help. Insulation additions
will help more, and save $ also.

Bob

"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

Dollars to donuts, you would probably get the most bang for the
buck by increasing your insulation over that crawl space.

Also whenever you have a fire going, cold air is being sucked
into the house to replace the air going out the chimney, unless
that insert has an outside air intake.

Don't fool around with the chimney unless and until you know
what you're doing.

Any electric heater is just as efficient as any other, if
that's what you want.

Don

I have hot water radiation - oil fired and when I moved in and got my
first big oil bill i almost croaked. I installed a "pacific energy"
wood stove insert in my old fireplace and it is excellent. stainless
steel liner in the exhisting stack. paid for itself in oil savings in
the first 1 and 1/2 years. I was thinking about a propane insert but
thats another monthly bill. if you have acess to wood i think it's the
way to go. If you have an exhisting chimmney the brick itself + a
single liner (stainless steel) it's pleanty safe pending the codes in
your area.


(Don) wrote in message . com...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

On 22 Sep 2004 11:00:47 -0700, (Don) wrote:


To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.


What about ceiling fans to help distribute the heat around evenly.
They'll real cheap to install and run and is good for winter or
summer.

You don't say one way or the other, and no one else has brought it up -
where are the ducts? Are they running under the floor, through the crawl
space? Are they insulated?

If you need a new chimney for a wood burning stove, you need a new chimney
for the fireplace insert - don't fool around with this, the last thing you
want is a house fire. In any case, a wood burner will heat a ROOM pretty
quickly, depending on the size of the room and the size of the stove, but
after living with one for 10 years in a 2000 square foot house, my
experience leads me to doubt it'll heat the HOUSE quickly. If you want to
use wood to heat the whole house (as opposed to just one room) unless you
get your wood for free it's almost certainly going to cost more than gas.
Not to mention that heating with wood is work - a lot of work - you have to
really want to do it.

You don't say what kind of windows you have. If they're not the real
efficient double or triple glazed type, nice and tight, you should have
either storm windows or failing that, cover the windows with clear plastic -
kits should be available at the local hardware or big box store.

Even if the heater is working right and the ducts are either in the heated
space or insulated, it sounds like the system could/should be balanced to
direct more of the heat to the main living area and reduce the heat
delivered to the bedrooms. At the very least, you could close the vents in
the bedrooms and keep the doors to those rooms closed.

Another possibility is that some of the ducts are partially blocked with
construction debris - maybe you should have the ducts cleaned.

Your local utility may have an energy audit program - they come out and
check out the house and make energy conserving suggestions. It may even be
done at no cost to you - give them a call and see.

Do your neighbors heat the same way? Have you compared notes with them?
How does your propane usage compare with theirs? How does your comfort
level compare with theirs?

"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message ...
Don wrote:
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

Yea, it is working fine. However was it properly sized, with a properly
designed distribution system and installed properly? The answer is NO. If
it was you would not have part of the house too cold!

You need to get a real tech in to look at the home and do the "Manuals"
needed to find out what you need. You can not fix the problem with a
bandaid.

This is exactly the problem my parents' house has, and has had for the
last 37 years. Not sure about the furnace being the wrong size, but
the original AC did have to be replaced, and we were told it was
indeed too small for the job.

My folks' place is a tri-level, and the heat goes right up the center
stairwells. Closing off the bedrooms and the vents to these rooms has
helped push some of the warm air toward the kitchen.

Also, keeping the garage door closed helps immensely, as it faces
North and the garage is adjacent to the dining room. Additionally,
stacking bales of straw along the outer walls of the kitchen and
dining room help. A space heater has been the ultimate solution,
if/when the oven is not being used.

Hopefully needless to say.....the flu to the fireplace Must be closed
when the fireplace is not in use. Makes a Huge difference in the
temperature of the house.

Regarding woodburners....I was told, just this last summer, that to
put a woodstove into my polebarn would necessitate a *triple*
insulated chimney, much more than what is required of a standard gas
furnace. Big bucks, I was also told, altho I am not that sure that
this contractor really wanted to do the job in the first place.

Assuming your place is adequately insulated, I would look for
additional sources of heat loss. You are using a huge amount of gas.

ymmv...
Linda H.

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message ...
"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

you might try an oil filled rollaround heater.

What is that?

Elmo wrote in message ...
Don wrote:
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Where is the thermostat located? Is it in the warm area or the cool
area? Is there something about the cool area that makes it loose heat
faster than the warm area (more windows, uninsulated door, etc.) or does
the heat simply not get to the cool area?

The warm area of the house is the beddrooms which are on one side. The
living room is at the other end and is more "open". The thermostat is
on the bedroom side.

The living room is the farthest form the furnance. The living room has
more windows and doors.

"Lou" wrote in message ...
You don't say one way or the other, and no one else has brought it up -
where are the ducts? Are they running under the floor, through the crawl
space? Are they insulated?

If you need a new chimney for a wood burning stove, you need a new chimney
for the fireplace insert - don't fool around with this, the last thing you
want is a house fire. In any case, a wood burner will heat a ROOM pretty
quickly, depending on the size of the room and the size of the stove, but
after living with one for 10 years in a 2000 square foot house, my
experience leads me to doubt it'll heat the HOUSE quickly. If you want to
use wood to heat the whole house (as opposed to just one room) unless you
get your wood for free it's almost certainly going to cost more than gas.
Not to mention that heating with wood is work - a lot of work - you have to
really want to do it.

You don't say what kind of windows you have. If they're not the real
efficient double or triple glazed type, nice and tight, you should have
either storm windows or failing that, cover the windows with clear plastic -
kits should be available at the local hardware or big box store.

Even if the heater is working right and the ducts are either in the heated
space or insulated, it sounds like the system could/should be balanced to
direct more of the heat to the main living area and reduce the heat
delivered to the bedrooms. At the very least, you could close the vents in
the bedrooms and keep the doors to those rooms closed.

Another possibility is that some of the ducts are partially blocked with
construction debris - maybe you should have the ducts cleaned.

Your local utility may have an energy audit program - they come out and
check out the house and make energy conserving suggestions. It may even be
done at no cost to you - give them a call and see.

Do your neighbors heat the same way? Have you compared notes with them?
How does your propane usage compare with theirs? How does your comfort
level compare with theirs?

"Don" wrote in message
om...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

My duct is insulated and in the crawl space. I am not sure if what I
have is an "insert" or not. I think it was designed for gas logs. My
chiney is not brick but wood and vyinle.

I have tried closing off the vents in other rooms but it does not
help.

I have free wood to cut available to me.

Thanks for your help!

Don wrote:

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message ...


"Don" wrote in message
.com...


I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

Any help is greatly appreciated!


you might try an oil filled rollaround heater.



What is that?


http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=prod...77-33454-MG15T

In article oups.com,
(JMartin) says...

Gas logs are designed for aethestic purposes only. They are not designed
for heating and are very inefficient at doing so.

The one my mom has is a completely enclosed glass front unit with a heat
exchanger and air circulating fan. It is not too bad for efficiency,
heating by both radiation and hot air. Of course, when the power goes
out its efficiency drops way off, but it will still radiate enough heat
to warm someone sitting in front of it.

I'm a real fan of 19th century technology. This got me to thinking
about wing back chairs, which were designed to keep you warm facing a
fireplace. I don't know anybody who owns one any more.

When I was in college, one place I rented had a gas heater that heated a
vertical gas grill about a foot high and 18" wide. There were heat
exchanger fins above that. The grill would glow bright red and put out
a lot of heat, and the heat exchanger would scavenge what was left over.
I have never seen anything like it since. It put out as much heat as a
wood stove.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

"Bob" wrote in message news:Mtl4d.239348$mD.96458@attbi_s02...
"Don" wrote in message

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6
years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I
have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having
one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone
said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind"

If what you have in the fireplace is what is normally called an
"insert", it IS a wood burning stove. Does it have a fan to
circulate heat around the part hidden in the fireplace? Have you
tried it? I used my insert last year for all the heat in my
house.

In any case, opening the vents where it is cold, and partially
closing those where it is not should help. Insulation additions
will help more, and save $ also.

Bob

And ... with any stove, if you run it much of the time with
uncontrolled draft, you'll not get any efficiency. The impact will be
determined by the difference between inside/outside temps, and we got
not clue as to area climate.

IOW, as possible, close the doors; regulate the draft.

Then there are the issues of sealing at connection to flue and
distributing heat from the insert, which can be hugely important.
Later.

HTH,
John

(Don) wrote in message . com...
I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.

Sounds like my place! That big living area is hotter in summer and
harder to air condition too.

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy.

We put in a gas log in our conventional fireplace in the living room,
but the gas log really provides mostly a decorative effect and very
little heat. If I were you, I wouldn't bother with a gas log.

I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.

Debated putting in a wood burning stove as I remember having one when
I was younger and they heated a house up quickly. But someone said i
would probably have to change the chimney pipe ot the "double
insulated kind" Not sure what that means. My chiney is at the end of
my house and outside and covered with vyinle as is the entire house.
Is changing the pipe something I could do myself?

Beats me. I'd ask a woodstove dealer. And would you be OK with keeping
up with something that is actually burning in your home and would
require you to have a steady supply of firewood?

What other options are there for me? I have even debated putting in
those fake electric logs that put out heat but how much heat do they
put out? Would it warm a small living room?

I doubt it would be much heat.

IMHO, your cheapest and easiest solution is to get an electric space
heater. You can get an electric space heater with a thermostat that
will help you keep your place at a comfortable temperature. Make sure
to get an electric heater with a fan to spread the heat around the
room. In summer, store the heater.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

"JMartin" wrote in message ewsgroups.com...
"Don" wrote in message
om...

(snip)

I have a fire place "insert" with chimney. The house is about 6 years
old. Wanted to put in a gas log but my gas bill is crazy. I have to
get my tank filled up 3 or 4 times a year.
snip

Gas logs are designed for aethestic purposes only. They are not designed
for heating and are very inefficient at doing so.

When they are installed, it is a common practice to put a stop in the
chimney damper, thus making it impossible to close the flue up. This is to
prevent CO problems, but you then have a constant drain of heat from your
house...straight up the chimney.

Yep. Someone gave us our gas log as a gift, which I appreciate, but
the gas log situation is exactly as you describe above.

I'd stuff some insulation up the chimney when the gas logs aren't in
use, but that idea makes my wife nervous. So yearround, it's a hole in
the house.

(snip)

Elmo wrote in message ...
Don wrote:

(snip)

Where is the thermostat located? Is it in the warm area or the cool
area?

Good thought. If the OP spends the most time in his living area, could
make sense to move the thermostat there.

Given that my home sounds similar to the OP's, and I have similar
problems, I have a question:

Would it be possible to have two thermostats in my home,
which could supply one average reading that would trigger my HVAC
system?

BTW, my thermostat is in the middle of the hallway where the bedrooms
are.

Is there something about the cool area that makes it loose heat
faster than the warm area (more windows, uninsulated door, etc.)

Given that my home sound similar, I'll bet part of the problem is more
windows, proximity of heat-producing kitchen appliances such as
fridge, stove, and dishwasher, and air leaking through the chimney.
And in my case, the living area is just so dang big that it's harder
to heat or cool, compared to the bedrooms, which are smaller.

or does
the heat simply not get to the cool area?

In my case, the heat gets to the living area, but it's never as warm
as in the bedrooms. In summer, the situation is reversed, except it's
worse: hot living area, cool bedrooms.

Hope nobody minds me interjecting my situation in my home. The OP's
situation sounds so similar to mine that my experience may be relevant
and/or I can learn something along with the OP from you other posters.

"Don K" wrote in message ...
"Don" wrote in message
om...

(snip)

Dollars to donuts, you would probably get the most bang for the
buck by increasing your insulation over that crawl space.

One change I've noticed in a friend's house with increased insulation
is that not only is the temperature more stable, but the place is
quieter because the HVAC runs less.

Also whenever you have a fire going, cold air is being sucked
into the house to replace the air going out the chimney,

Been there, done that. We used to live in an old place and it was
almost as if having a fire in the fireplace made the place colder!

We eventually learned that the fireplace, which was very shallow, was
actually designed to burn coal, so the fireplace really didn't (and
wasn't meant to) work well with wood.

(snip)

Any electric heater is just as efficient as any other, if
that's what you want.

If the OP wants a quick fix, an electric heater with a built-in fan
would be my recommendation.

If the OP wants a real fix that will save energy and (in the long run)
save money, and as a side benefits probably make the home quieter, the
temperature more stable yearround, and save wear on the HVAC, the OP
will need more insulation and anything else that an energy audit of
the OP's home will recommend.

N wrote:
Elmo wrote in message ...

Don wrote:


(snip)


Where is the thermostat located? Is it in the warm area or the cool
area?


Good thought. If the OP spends the most time in his living area, could
make sense to move the thermostat there.

Given that my home sounds similar to the OP's, and I have similar
problems, I have a question:

Would it be possible to have two thermostats in my home,
which could supply one average reading that would trigger my HVAC
system?

Most heating systems work on a simple on/off switch triggered by the
thermostat. I can think of a way to have each of them set to a different
temperature and connected to an intermediate switch which would require
both to be on before it would turn on the heating system but I can't see
any benefit in doing that. A more complex system would continually
sample the temperature reading at multiple locations and turn on the heat
when the average (or weighted average) reached a specified value. That
might have more benefit but I've not seen any such thing on the market.
Maybe for a Johnson Controls type commercial system but not for homes. I
think it would be less expensive to put in a second heating system.


BTW, my thermostat is in the middle of the hallway where the bedrooms
are.


Is there something about the cool area that makes it loose heat
faster than the warm area (more windows, uninsulated door, etc.)


Given that my home sound similar, I'll bet part of the problem is more
windows, proximity of heat-producing kitchen appliances such as
fridge, stove, and dishwasher, and air leaking through the chimney.
And in my case, the living area is just so dang big that it's harder
to heat or cool, compared to the bedrooms, which are smaller.


or does
the heat simply not get to the cool area?


In my case, the heat gets to the living area, but it's never as warm
as in the bedrooms. In summer, the situation is reversed, except it's
worse: hot living area, cool bedrooms.

That sounds like leakage/loss of temperature differential in the
distribution system. Are the ducts insulated? (Assuming forced air
because it does both heating and cooling.) Or maybe the total volume of
warm air at the starting point isn't great enough?


Hope nobody minds me interjecting my situation in my home. The OP's
situation sounds so similar to mine that my experience may be relevant
and/or I can learn something along with the OP from you other posters.

In my case, the heat gets to the living area, but it's never as warm
as in the bedrooms. In summer, the situation is reversed, except it's
worse: hot living area, cool bedrooms.

If this is consistant, then
that just means that you have to arrange for more air to be
delivered to and returned from the living area, and less to
the bedrooms, until it's right.

You'd only need a separate heater or zone if either the
error, or the desired relative temperature of the assorted
spaces changed, at different times.

N wrote:

(Don) wrote in message . com...

I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.


Sounds like my place! That big living area is hotter in summer and
harder to air condition too.

We have an open concept house. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on
this thread is installing and using a ceiling fan. These are very
economical winter or summer and more so for open concept or large spaces.

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:47:40 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

When I was in college, one place I rented had a gas heater that heated a
vertical gas grill about a foot high and 18" wide. There were heat
exchanger fins above that. The grill would glow bright red and put out
a lot of heat, and the heat exchanger would scavenge what was left over.
I have never seen anything like it since. It put out as much heat as a
wood stove.

I had one of those myself once upon a time. Nothing like coming in
from a freezing winter day and sitting with that monster. Back in '94
we had a huge snowstorm that knocked the power out for days. My
neighbors were out pulling up their wooden fence to burn for heat
while we were comfy in the house. Sure miss the old timey simple
things that just worked.

To the OP. Since you already have gas in the house look for a gas
burning wall unit if you have space for it. You can get nonvented or
vented and they both do a pretty good job though I prefer the vented
because I am scared of possible carbon monoxide. These will also work
without power so that gives you a source of heat in an emergency
situation as well.

Steve B.

"Larry Caldwell" wrote in message
k.net...
In article oups.com,
(JMartin) says...

Gas logs are designed for aethestic purposes only. They are not
designed
for heating and are very inefficient at doing so.

The one my mom has is a completely enclosed glass front unit with a heat
exchanger and air circulating fan. It is not too bad for efficiency,
heating by both radiation and hot air. Of course, when the power goes
out its efficiency drops way off, but it will still radiate enough heat
to warm someone sitting in front of it.

I'm a real fan of 19th century technology. This got me to thinking
about wing back chairs, which were designed to keep you warm facing a
fireplace. I don't know anybody who owns one any more.

Oh, we can tell that from here - no doubt your usenet access is via a
telegraph wire connected to your Babbidge Difference Engine which is located
in a room lit by coal gas lamps. It's obvious from the font.

What puzzles me is that a self-declared fan of 19th century technology and
wing back chairs apparently doesn't own at least one himself, especially
since they're so widely available at an astonishing range of prices.

my uncle is very happy with his pellet stove. it looked nice,
traditional, and cast-iron to me. i have no idea how pellet
prices stack up against other energy sources though.

Serendipity wrote in message ...
N wrote:

(Don) wrote in message . com...

I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.


Sounds like my place! That big living area is hotter in summer and
harder to air condition too.

We have an open concept house. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on
this thread is installing and using a ceiling fan. These are very
economical winter or summer and more so for open concept or large spaces.

I've always been a little suspicious of the idea that ceiling fans
were helpful in winter. It seems to me that the warm air from my
heating system would mix with the cooler air anyway and that a fan
wouldn't help much, if at all. I've always suspected the idea that a
ceiling fan is useful in winter is a ploy to sell more ceiling fans,
but I could be wrong.

However, ceiling fans in hot weather can be great! I used to live w/o
AC (couldn't afford it) and the ceiling fan over my bed was so
effective that on hot summer nights with the fan running, I'd
sometimes wake up after a few hours because I was so cold.

I've always been a little suspicious of the idea that ceiling fans
were helpful in winter. It seems to me that the warm air from my
heating system would mix with the cooler air anyway and that a fan
wouldn't help much, if at all. I've always suspected the idea that a
ceiling fan is useful in winter is a ploy to sell more ceiling fans,
but I could be wrong.

However, ceiling fans in hot weather can be great! I used to live w/o
AC (couldn't afford it) and the ceiling fan over my bed was so
effective that on hot summer nights with the fan running, I'd
sometimes wake up after a few hours because I was so cold.


We use our ceiling fans year round.
We reverse the motor direction during the winter.
It then circulates the warm air (remember heat rises) from the
ceiling height back down. Good way to keep the windows defogged
and in some cases, defrosted. That's the theory anyways.

Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

"N" wrote in message m...
Serendipity wrote in message ...
N wrote:

(Don) wrote in message . com...

I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.


Sounds like my place! That big living area is hotter in summer and
harder to air condition too.

We have an open concept house. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on
this thread is installing and using a ceiling fan. These are very
economical winter or summer and more so for open concept or large spaces.

I've always been a little suspicious of the idea that ceiling
fans were helpful in winter. It seems to me that the warm
air from my heating system would mix with the cooler air
anyway and that a fan wouldn't help much, if at all.

If you measure it, you'll find there is a considerable vertical
temperature differential in most winter heating situatons.

Corse there is also another effect too. If the air temp is kept on
the low side, like say 60F, the draft at that temp isnt very pleasant,
particularly if you are basking in front of radiant heat sources.

I basically bask in full sun on sunny winter
days and the air temp isnt all that high at all.

When its not sunny, I basically have a fan heater blowing hot
air on me. That works because I dont move around much.

A ceiling fan is the last thing I need in winter.

Dont need one in summer either because I use a massive
'swamp' cooler on the roof that blows a hell of a gale thru the
most important parts of the house, all the air movement I need.

I've always suspected the idea that a ceiling fan is useful in
winter is a ploy to sell more ceiling fans, but I could be wrong.

Yes, you are. They do have their place, particularly if you attempt
to keep the entire room comfortably warm and dont have any fans
in the heating method used, say just have fanless oil filled heaters
or wood stoves without internal fans etc.

However, ceiling fans in hot weather can be great! I used to live
w/o AC (couldn't afford it) and the ceiling fan over my bed was
so effective that on hot summer nights with the fan running, I'd
sometimes wake up after a few hours because I was so cold.

Yeah, I hardly ever leave the swamp cooler on when I go to bed,
because of that effect, I have to get up to turn it off because its
too cold. I do like it warmer than most tho, many wouldnt consider
the initial temp with it off cool enough for sleeping.

"Rod Speed" wrote:
....
I basically bask in full sun on sunny winter
days and the air temp isnt all that high at all.

When its not sunny, I basically have a fan heater blowing hot
air on me. That works because I dont move around much.
....

Whoa! Somebody's cat has learned to post on the 'net!

N wrote:

Serendipity wrote in message ...

N wrote:


(Don) wrote in message . com...


I have a 1700 square foot house on a crawl space foundation with the
bedrooms on one end of the house and a living room/dining room/kitchen
on the other. I have propane water and heat.

To make a long story short the living room/dining room/kitchen area
stays colder than the rest of the house. I have had the system looked
at and it is working fine.


Sounds like my place! That big living area is hotter in summer and
harder to air condition too.

We have an open concept house. One thing that hasn't been mentioned on
this thread is installing and using a ceiling fan. These are very
economical winter or summer and more so for open concept or large spaces.


I've always been a little suspicious of the idea that ceiling fans
were helpful in winter. It seems to me that the warm air from my
heating system would mix with the cooler air anyway and that a fan
wouldn't help much, if at all. I've always suspected the idea that a
ceiling fan is useful in winter is a ploy to sell more ceiling fans,
but I could be wrong.

I think the effectiveness depends on the design of the area in which the
fan is in. In an open concept living area, the ceiling fan improves the
air circulation. This would be especially helpful when using a radient
heat source suce as baseboard heaters or a wood stove. In the winter,
you set the fan so that it blows the hot air from the ceiling to the floor

However, ceiling fans in hot weather can be great! I used to live w/o
AC (couldn't afford it) and the ceiling fan over my bed was so
effective that on hot summer nights with the fan running, I'd
sometimes wake up after a few hours because I was so cold.

Andy Hill wrote in message . ..
"Rod Speed" wrote:
....
I basically bask in full sun on sunny winter
days and the air temp isnt all that high at all.

When its not sunny, I basically have a fan heater blowing hot
air on me. That works because I dont move around much.
....

Whoa! Somebody's cat has learned to post on the 'net!

LOL!