On 6/7/2021 12:46 PM, dan wrote:

On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-7, dan wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 10:34:39 -0700, Bob F wrote:
So the smaller spring adjustment lessens the top of the range, the
difference above the turn on setting determined by the bigger spring.
That's a good way of putting it.

The video said the spring on the bigger screw is more forgiving as if
we're
supposed to be changing these things a lot? I'm surprised they said that.

What's a good range and high end? I don't know.
The video says to play with the 20# range if you need to lower
pressure.
It says to play with the high end cutoff only if you specifically
need it.

The manufacturer usually says to use a 20# range. If you adjust the
larger spring, you will keep the 20# range, but your lowest
pressure of
the cycle will be a little lower. If you adjust the smaller range
spring, the lowest pressure will remain the same, but the pump will
cycle a little more often.
After both adjustments, the water pressure pump has been cycling on
its own!

I only caught it starting once (which I timed at 1-1/2 minutes to
shutoff).
I tested the pressure at the top of the bladder at the end at 37psi.

I am glad you got it working.
Test it by turning on a faucet full blast until it starts.


It's kind of low but not so low as to make me worry.
I'm surprised though that it's that much lower than 52psi given only
5 turns
each of the two adjustment screws (the start of the range & its top
end).

5 turns each at 2-3 PSI per turn is 20-30 PSI lower setting for the peak
PSI and 10-15 lower for the start PSI. Not surprising at all. Why did
you adjust both, and why so much?




However it has only been doing this since my last post and I'm busy with
other things so I haven't figured out the new on/off/rest interval yet.

But the GOOD NEWS is it's "automatic" again!
Your advice to LOWER the cutoff pressure at the switch did the trick!

I will probably drop it lower than I really need to just to debug.
Then bring it up later as close to the 30:50 as I can get it.

It can (carefully, with a socket wrench) be adjusted while the pump is
running at it's maximum pressure and the pump should stop when the
setting is down to the pressure the pump is providing. Then turn it
another turn to get 2-3 PSI below the pumps limit.
Oh. That's a great trick!
That trick of adjusting it while the pump is running wasn't in the
video.
(And yes, I'm aware the pump is likely 220 volts and the switch is hot.)

BTW, you can't use a socket on my center bolt because the nut was
down too
low but it's just a 3/8ths inch nut so an open end wrench works just
fine.

Ah, the joy of having a deep socket set.


As I see it, the two bolts are above a plate where the pressure from
below
pushes the plate up and the bolts simply hold the spring which pushes
down.

Therefore, for debugging, since the pump never shut off, I could have
loosened the center range bolt until the pump shut off and then
loosened the
side topend bolt a few turns to get it to shut off a few psi below that.

I'd put the small spring back where it started, and adjust the big
spring for 48 or so PSI shutoff. that would give you a range of 28-48 PSI.


That's a great debugging idea to find out exactly where the pump
shuts off.

When I change the cutout pressure point I have to measure the
results.
Is the pressure at the top of the blue bladder tank an accurate
pressure?

You could replace the "L" under the switch with a "T", and extend it
with suitable pipe fittings so you can screw a new valve on where you
can see it.



It is as accurate as your gauge, but lets a little air out each
time you
do it which will need to be replaced at some point.
The air in the bladder is easily enough replaced.

It's only slightly inconvenient that I have to let the water pressure
go to
as close to zero in the house as possible. I don't know the "correct"
way to
fill the bladder since it will always have some water pressure from the
tanks feeding it. But I don't know how much that might be.

There is not a shut off valve for the water coming in?


I think you solved all the mysteries (except perhaps what changed to
cause
the problem in the first place but I'm not so worried about that really).

Switches wear, pump impellers erode.


I will add to the idea of having water pressure in the system when you
probe to clean out the gauge passage. Have some pressure in the tank,
but the pump turned off so the crud will not get pushed around by the
impeller, but instead will go with the water pushing it out the gauge
hole. Have enough pressure to make sure a bunch of water is there
to get
it all out as you probe.
For now, if the gauge on the bladder is good enough, I'm fine but I
do agree
that having a gauge at the pump is far better as I can watch it drop and
then I can see when the pump kicks on and off (although it's not in a
convenient spot for watching it).
t spot for watching it).

Put the gauge back at least, or you might have a flood some day.

You could use a bent coat hanger or other such tool to probe into the
gauge hole and try to break the plugging material loose.

On 6/7/2021 1:36 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 6/7/2021 12:46 PM, dan wrote:

On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-7, dan wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 10:34:39 -0700, Bob F wrote:
So the smaller spring adjustment lessens the top of the range, the
difference above the turn on setting determined by the bigger spring.
That's a good way of putting it.

The video said the spring on the bigger screw is more forgiving as if
we're
supposed to be changing these things a lot? I'm surprised they said
that.

What's a good range and high end? I don't know.
The video says to play with the 20# range if you need to lower
pressure.
It says to play with the high end cutoff only if you specifically
need it.

The manufacturer usually says to use a 20# range. If you adjust the
larger spring, you will keep the 20# range, but your lowest
pressure of
the cycle will be a little lower. If you adjust the smaller range
spring, the lowest pressure will remain the same, but the pump will
cycle a little more often.
After both adjustments, the water pressure pump has been cycling on
its own!

I only caught it starting once (which I timed at 1-1/2 minutes to
shutoff).
I tested the pressure at the top of the bladder at the end at 37psi.

I am glad you got it working.
Test it by turning on a faucet full blast until it starts.


It's kind of low but not so low as to make me worry.
I'm surprised though that it's that much lower than 52psi given only
5 turns
each of the two adjustment screws (the start of the range & its top
end).

5 turns each at 2-3 PSI per turn is 20-30 PSI lower setting for the peak
PSI and 10-15 lower for the start PSI. Not surprising at all. Why did
you adjust both, and why so much?




However it has only been doing this since my last post and I'm busy with
other things so I haven't figured out the new on/off/rest interval yet.

But the GOOD NEWS is it's "automatic" again!
Your advice to LOWER the cutoff pressure at the switch did the trick!

I will probably drop it lower than I really need to just to debug.
Then bring it up later as close to the 30:50 as I can get it.

It can (carefully, with a socket wrench) be adjusted while the pump is
running at it's maximum pressure and the pump should stop when the
setting is down to the pressure the pump is providing. Then turn it
another turn to get 2-3 PSI below the pumps limit.
Oh. That's a great trick!
That trick of adjusting it while the pump is running wasn't in the
video.
(And yes, I'm aware the pump is likely 220 volts and the switch is hot.)

BTW, you can't use a socket on my center bolt because the nut was
down too
low but it's just a 3/8ths inch nut so an open end wrench works just
fine.

Ah, the joy of having a deep socket set.


As I see it, the two bolts are above a plate where the pressure from
below
pushes the plate up and the bolts simply hold the spring which pushes
down.

Therefore, for debugging, since the pump never shut off, I could have
loosened the center range bolt until the pump shut off and then
loosened the
side topend bolt a few turns to get it to shut off a few psi below that.

I'd put the small spring back where it started, and adjust the big
spring for 48 or so PSI shutoff. that would give you a range of 28-48 PSI.


That's a great debugging idea to find out exactly where the pump
shuts off.

When I change the cutout pressure point I have to measure the
results.
Is the pressure at the top of the blue bladder tank an accurate
pressure?

You could replace the "L" under the switch with a "T", and extend it
with suitable pipe fittings so you can screw a new valve on where you
can see it.

Oops. That should be "new gauge".




It is as accurate as your gauge, but lets a little air out each
time you
do it which will need to be replaced at some point.
The air in the bladder is easily enough replaced.

It's only slightly inconvenient that I have to let the water pressure
go to
as close to zero in the house as possible. I don't know the "correct"
way to
fill the bladder since it will always have some water pressure from the
tanks feeding it. But I don't know how much that might be.

There is not a shut off valve for the water coming in?


I think you solved all the mysteries (except perhaps what changed to
cause
the problem in the first place but I'm not so worried about that
really).

Switches wear, pump impellers erode.


I will add to the idea of having water pressure in the system when you
probe to clean out the gauge passage. Have some pressure in the tank,
but the pump turned off so the crud will not get pushed around by the
impeller, but instead will go with the water pushing it out the gauge
hole. Have enough pressure to make sure a bunch of water is there
to get
it all out as you probe.
For now, if the gauge on the bladder is good enough, I'm fine but I
do agree
that having a gauge at the pump is far better as I can watch it drop and
then I can see when the pump kicks on and off (although it's not in a
convenient spot for watching it).
t spot for watching it).

Put the gauge back at least, or you might have a flood some day.

You could use a bent coat hanger or other such tool to probe into the
gauge hole and try to break the plugging material loose.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2021 13:43:50 -0700, Bob F wrote:
5 turns each at 2-3 PSI per turn is 20-30 PSI lower setting for the
peak PSI and 10-15 lower for the start PSI. Not surprising at all.
Why did you adjust both, and why so much?

To tell you the truth, I went out there with the wife yelling at me to stop
watching that video and just turn the water on and I was writing to you
taking time and she got frustrated and said she was going to turn the water
on herself (she was doing her Monday cleaning and she likes it just so).

I brought only a set of nut wrenches with me but found that the 3/8" center
bolt was too tall so I only was able to loosen the side 3/8" nut the five
turns and then I tested to see if the pump shut off.

I am not the first owner so I can only assume the original range was 20psi.
If I assume the top end was set at 60 (the nut was far down the bolt),
then dropping that top end to 50 should, theoretically, get me below the
52psi the pump was capable of.

The pump didn't stop but that setting is plus or minus a lot of guesswork.

Luckily, given the cleaning chores of the wife, the water soon ran out, so I
then loosened the center bolt the five turns, and that's what solved it.

If the top was originally 60 and if I dropped the top by 10 loosening the
side nut and then by another 10 loosening the center nut that makes the top
end 40 which seems to be just about where it may be.

The range, if it was 20 is now only 10 though, so that makes the kick-on
point about 30 which makes the turn on at 30 and the turn off at 40.

It has been working automatically all day since but I haven't been able to
catch it on the start since I'm doing things around the house. It may take a
few days before I get a feeling of what the new interval is but I'm ok with
the one observed 1-1/2 minute running to 37 psi.

BTW, she asked me what happens to a washing machine when water runs low?
I told her I didn't know.
Do you?

I'd put the small spring back where it started, and adjust the big
spring for 48 or so PSI shutoff. that would give you a range of 28-48 PSI.

I can do that and I very well might do that as that was the original plan.
What I will do is get an idea of the cycles during this week & then decide.

You could replace the "L" under the switch with a "T", and extend it
with suitable pipe fittings so you can screw a new valve on
where you can see it.

For visibility nothing beats the top of the blue bladder tank.
Do they sell bicycle gauges that screw into the valve but which don't leak?

There is not a shut off valve for the water coming in?

Yes. It's not all that great but it's there. When I shut that main valve
(which is just a foot from the pump inlet) to put the 1-inch plugs in, I
noticed water still came through at a good clip - maybe at the clip where it
would take a minute to fill a glass of water. So those valves are leaky.

Switches wear, pump impellers erode.

Logical. I must agree.

Put the gauge back at least, or you might have a flood some day.

Oh I put it back right away. No problem there.

You could use a bent coat hanger or other such tool to probe into the
gauge hole and try to break the plugging material loose.

Maybe. But I like your idea of a gauge in the 1-inch tapered hole on the top
of the pump better. Nice & solid and nothing to gunk up inside.