I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 6:25:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

I've never tried it. Supposedly, connecting a spark plug wire from a
running vehicle will put a signal into a buried wire. The portable AM
radio will make the most static when it's directly over the wire.
There shouldn't be a return circuit so no current flow to ruin solenoid
valves.

On 5/17/2021 4:52 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 6:25:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

I've never tried it. Supposedly, connecting a spark plug wire from a
running vehicle will put a signal into a buried wire. The portable AM
radio will make the most static when it's directly over the wire.
There shouldn't be a return circuit so no current flow to ruin solenoid
valves.


I used a signal generator that would put an audio tone on an AM radio
frequency signal, and used that and an AM radio to get an approximation
of the location of a power cable at my fathers house once.

This gadget from Harbor Freight might help if the wire is close to the
surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJsXpVZc5E

On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:02:37 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 5/17/2021 4:52 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 6:25:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

I've never tried it. Supposedly, connecting a spark plug wire from a
running vehicle will put a signal into a buried wire. The portable AM
radio will make the most static when it's directly over the wire.
There shouldn't be a return circuit so no current flow to ruin solenoid
valves.

I used a signal generator that would put an audio tone on an AM radio
frequency signal, and used that and an AM radio to get an approximation
of the location of a power cable at my fathers house once.

This gadget from Harbor Freight might help if the wire is close to the
surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJsXpVZc5E

Update. Doing some more searching, I came across a Chatter Box, which
is a small device you put in series on the valve wire. It turns it on and off
very fast, causing it to chatter so you can better hear it. They go for about $30.
There are also fox and hound signal tracers for finding underground wires that
go for about twice that. Not too bad. Reading about the Chatter Box, it said
to do it with the water off. Which got me thinking, that maybe with no water
pressure the valves make more noise. So I turned off the water. Then I wet
down the rain sensor so that the simple little toggle switch that bypasses it
could be used to easily and quickly turn the zone on and off. I had a helper
work that while I listened again. I immediately heard a clicking right by the
backflow preventer where it exits the house. When checking with the water
on I had heard a thumping there, but it was coming from the backflow device
itself. This click sounds like a valve and very likely is and it was masked by
the sound of the bypass device when the water was on.

It was getting dark, so that's as far as I got. Seems like two possibilities.
One is that where the valve box with the three valves is. Other is that there
are two missing boxes and only the main valve box is in the spot I found.
Only reason I'm skeptical is that it would have been easier to put the valve
box elsewhere, as it would require just one water line run under the driveway
or sidewalk instead of three. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that I didn't
have more than two boxes. But you'd think I would remember the one right
by the backflow device where I blow it out each year. As they say, we'll see....

Thanks to all for the tips.

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:26:25 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:02:37 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 5/17/2021 4:52 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 6:25:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

I've never tried it. Supposedly, connecting a spark plug wire from a
running vehicle will put a signal into a buried wire. The portable AM
radio will make the most static when it's directly over the wire.
There shouldn't be a return circuit so no current flow to ruin solenoid
valves.

I used a signal generator that would put an audio tone on an AM radio
frequency signal, and used that and an AM radio to get an approximation
of the location of a power cable at my fathers house once.

This gadget from Harbor Freight might help if the wire is close to the
surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJsXpVZc5E
Update. Doing some more searching, I came across a Chatter Box, which
is a small device you put in series on the valve wire. It turns it on and off
very fast, causing it to chatter so you can better hear it. They go for about $30.
There are also fox and hound signal tracers for finding underground wires that
go for about twice that. Not too bad. Reading about the Chatter Box, it said
to do it with the water off. Which got me thinking, that maybe with no water
pressure the valves make more noise. So I turned off the water. Then I wet
down the rain sensor so that the simple little toggle switch that bypasses it
could be used to easily and quickly turn the zone on and off. I had a helper
work that while I listened again. I immediately heard a clicking right by the
backflow preventer where it exits the house. When checking with the water
on I had heard a thumping there, but it was coming from the backflow device
itself. This click sounds like a valve and very likely is and it was masked by
the sound of the bypass device when the water was on.

It was getting dark, so that's as far as I got. Seems like two possibilities.
One is that where the valve box with the three valves is. Other is that there
are two missing boxes and only the main valve box is in the spot I found.
Only reason I'm skeptical is that it would have been easier to put the valve
box elsewhere, as it would require just one water line run under the driveway
or sidewalk instead of three. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that I didn't
have more than two boxes. But you'd think I would remember the one right
by the backflow device where I blow it out each year. As they say, we'll see....

Thanks to all for the tips.

Update. Turns out the clicking heard above at the backflow preventer was
only the main valve. So last night I disabled that and with the water off,
proceeded to do more click testing. Knowing that the main valve was there
also further pointed to the likely place for the third valve box. I found it,
at least think I have. Found faint clicking and something that goes thump
underneath the grass in a spot on the lawn. Will be uncovering it today.

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 9:24:43 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:26:25 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:02:37 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 5/17/2021 4:52 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 6:25:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

I've never tried it. Supposedly, connecting a spark plug wire from a
running vehicle will put a signal into a buried wire. The portable AM
radio will make the most static when it's directly over the wire.
There shouldn't be a return circuit so no current flow to ruin solenoid
valves.

I used a signal generator that would put an audio tone on an AM radio
frequency signal, and used that and an AM radio to get an approximation
of the location of a power cable at my fathers house once.

This gadget from Harbor Freight might help if the wire is close to the
surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJsXpVZc5E
Update. Doing some more searching, I came across a Chatter Box, which
is a small device you put in series on the valve wire. It turns it on and off
very fast, causing it to chatter so you can better hear it. They go for about $30.
There are also fox and hound signal tracers for finding underground wires that
go for about twice that. Not too bad. Reading about the Chatter Box, it said
to do it with the water off. Which got me thinking, that maybe with no water
pressure the valves make more noise. So I turned off the water. Then I wet
down the rain sensor so that the simple little toggle switch that bypasses it
could be used to easily and quickly turn the zone on and off. I had a helper
work that while I listened again. I immediately heard a clicking right by the
backflow preventer where it exits the house. When checking with the water
on I had heard a thumping there, but it was coming from the backflow device
itself. This click sounds like a valve and very likely is and it was masked by
the sound of the bypass device when the water was on.

It was getting dark, so that's as far as I got. Seems like two possibilities.
One is that where the valve box with the three valves is. Other is that there
are two missing boxes and only the main valve box is in the spot I found.
Only reason I'm skeptical is that it would have been easier to put the valve
box elsewhere, as it would require just one water line run under the driveway
or sidewalk instead of three. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that I didn't
have more than two boxes. But you'd think I would remember the one right
by the backflow device where I blow it out each year. As they say, we'll see....

Thanks to all for the tips.
Update. Turns out the clicking heard above at the backflow preventer was
only the main valve. So last night I disabled that and with the water off,
proceeded to do more click testing. Knowing that the main valve was there
also further pointed to the likely place for the third valve box. I found it,
at least think I have. Found faint clicking and something that goes thump
underneath the grass in a spot on the lawn. Will be uncovering it today.

So that new location was the missing valve box. Covered by 2+ inches of
lawn. How that happened over 25 years, IDK. I obviously must have seen it
slowly disappearing and never did anything about it and it finally disappeared
and I forgot it ever existed.

Having found the valves, I took the top part of the valve off, inspected it.
Everything looked good. Put it back together hoping it would resolve itself,
no luck. Still stuck on. After more fiddling, I decided to take the working
one next to it apart and see if anything was different. That one looked the
same. I put it back together and now I had that zone stuck on too! Two
more times I took it apart, tried to see what I was doing wrong. Finally
I spent more time trying to understand how it works. These use kind of
a pilot valve to activate it. The solenoid opens a small pencil size opening.
That it turn causes water to flow I guess that in turn pushes a good size
diaphragm which in turn opens the actual main part of the valve. Looking
at how it works, I realized that the top part of the assembly is on the side of
the diaphragm that does the opening. And I deduced that since the tiny
pilot valve apparently opens that part to turn it on, that if there was any
similar leakage from that end, it too would turn it on. While doing my
above disassembly/reassembly I was just tightening these big ring nuts
by hand, figuring that worse that would happen if it wasn't tight enough
would be some minor leaking. But what if not having it good and tight
caused the valve to open, just like if the little solenoid released it?
Tightened the good one up with pliers and bingo, it went back to working.
Did the same to the original faulty one and it too started working perfectly.
So I think what happened was over the years the top worked a bit loose.
The side of the big ring nut on the bad one was also touching the side of
the sunken box, that could have been putting sideways pressure on it,
that also caused it to have a small leak.

So all is working. Still have to dig out the rest of the box so I can pull it
up and move it over an inch or two so it's better centered for access.
And put back together all the other crap that I fiddled with in the process,
re-wire nut things, etc.

Any suggestion on wire nuts? Seems like they used regular ones to me
and they lasted 25 years. I did see that HD had some ones from Orbit,
a little kit with an assortment, mostly small two wire ones, a couple bigger
ones for the common wires, but the local stores don't stock it. I'm thinking
to just use regular ones that I already have, orient them pointed up in
the box.

Meanwhile project is on hold. Township is coming next week to pick up
brush and I have a tree that fell down during the winter in the woods that
I need to cut up and get out there. Now that I can water the lawn correctly
in the current week long drought, those chores have priority. I also fixed
my old nemesis again, the leaf blower, yesterday. Piston ring stuck again,
carbon holding it stuck in the groove. I think this is caused by the hippies.
They got the EPA to prevent us from being able to adjust carbs anymore.
Seems really stupid to me. Instead of having a properly running engine,
we have engines running poorly, putting out more emissions. This blower
you have to have half choke much of the time to get it to run well.
I guess when I have time I;ll see if I can find whatever restricted tool is
required for this particular carb. Is that legal? Or maybe just buy a new
one from China.

On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 6:25:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?
I've never tried it. Supposedly, connecting a spark plug wire from a
running vehicle will put a signal into a buried wire. The portable AM
radio will make the most static when it's directly over the wire.
There shouldn't be a return circuit so no current flow to ruin solenoid
valves.

I'd be worried that the high voltage might break down the insulation of
the wire, but it's an interesting idea. Thanks.

On 5/17/21 7:25 PM, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?


This $15 metal detector from Harbor Fright might work for you. Meant for
finding nails, etc in wood, one reviewer said he used it to find buried
sprinkler heads.


https://www.harborfreight.com/metal-detector-97245.html

On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 8:12:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On 5/17/21 7:25 PM, trader_4 wrote:
I have a sprinkler zone valve stuck open, but IDK where the valve box is.
I have two valve boxes, one has 5 zone valves, the other has the main
valve and two zones. Of course the stuck valve is in the box that I
can't remember where it's located. I've tried cycling the valves, listening
for clicks. I can hear clicks in the box I know, but so far despite listening
where I think the other one could be, no luck. No luck with a pitch fork
in the likely spots either. I do have a map I drew when it was put in
25 years ago, but so far I can't find that either.

So any ideas for a cheap way to put a signal on the wires going to it
and tracing it to find it? The wires are probably 8 inches or so deep.
Maybe a rental company? HD? I looked online at Harbor Freight,
they have an AC one, but it relies on AC power. Any chance of
putting something simple and easy on it and trying an AM radio?

This $15 metal detector from Harbor Fright might work for you. Meant for
finding nails, etc in wood, one reviewer said he used it to find buried
sprinkler heads.


https://www.harborfreight.com/metal-detector-97245.html

That's a possibility. I'd have to rig up something to put it on the end of a
stick to be able to go over the whole target area That is if I did it trying
to find the valve box. I guess if it's sensitive enough, I could trace the wire
on my hands and knees. Thanks.