Trying to help out a neighbor here. He is the third or fourth owner
of this place down the road, so he has no idea how the pipes are
run. He has a shop that has a toilet that somehow connects to the
septic tank on the other side of the property about 100' away. We
know that the drain pipe leaves the shop going north, but the tank
inlet is NNW. We're looking for a cheap and relatively easy way to
trace the line so that he knows where he can dig without hitting the
pipe. We know the pipe is PVC. There are no permits or plot plans
required in this county for what was done from the shop
(non-occupied building).
Ideas?

"Grandpa" wrote in message
news:HKlHh.20055$as.14181@trnddc04...
Trying to help out a neighbor here. He is the third or fourth owner of
this place down the road, so he has no idea how the pipes are run. He has
a shop that has a toilet that somehow connects to the septic tank on the
other side of the property about 100' away. We know that the drain pipe
leaves the shop going north, but the tank inlet is NNW. We're looking for
a cheap and relatively easy way to trace the line so that he knows where
he can dig without hitting the pipe. We know the pipe is PVC. There are no
permits or plot plans required in this county for what was done from the
shop (non-occupied building).
Ideas?

No ideas, just a sure fire way to find the pipe.

Take two pieces of metal coat hanger wire, about 18" long. Bend them into
L's with a 12" and a 6" leg. Hold one in each hand by the short section,
each in a very loose fist, with the fronts of them dropped at the slightest
angles forward. You want them to be loose, and turn in your fists. Make
your fist as though you were holding something the size of a broom stick.
You want the wires to be really loose in there. The ends can go through the
opening in the bottom of your fist, but the tops can't rest on your top
finger or they won't turn.

Try it out. Go where you know where there is a line and get the hang of it
first.

Have some red flags, or pieces of cloth in your pocket to mark with as you
go.

You say you know generally which way the line runs. Go out twenty feet, and
walk like you would run into the pipe at a right angle. When you are over
the pipe, your two ends will come towards you to make a straight line left
to right in front of you. Mark the spot with a flag or rag. Go farther out
and repeat.

Exceptions; this will only work when passing over a line at a right angle.
If there are overhead power lines, they can cause the pointers to act
haywire. And, you will find every line in the yard, so you might have to do
some reasoning to decide which one is the one you're looking for.

If you can't master the touch of holding them lightly, go to the 99 cent
store and buy two small bottles of hot sauce, the ones shaped like Tabasco
bottles. You want the wire to be long enough to hit the bottom and swivel
with its weight on the bottom of the bottle. If all you can find is tall
bottles, make your short legs longer. They can't rest on the top lip of the
bottle, and must rest on the end of the wire on the bottom of the bottle.

I have found lots and lots of pipes this way. I have also found survey
markers, large pieces of buried metal, old tin cans, anything metal. And
YES, it does work on PVC pipes, too. Naysayers will say it can't be done.
If you live within 25 miles of me, I'd drive over there and guarantee you
$100 to a cold beer I could find it.

If you have troubles, post here, and I will tell you where I can send you
some helper pictures.

It works.

Steve

Steve, that was nasty.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:16:07 GMT, Grandpa wrote:

Trying to help out a neighbor here. He is the third or fourth owner
of this place down the road, so he has no idea how the pipes are
run. He has a shop that has a toilet that somehow connects to the
septic tank on the other side of the property about 100' away. We
know that the drain pipe leaves the shop going north, but the tank
inlet is NNW. We're looking for a cheap and relatively easy way to
trace the line so that he knows where he can dig without hitting the
pipe. We know the pipe is PVC. There are no permits or plot plans
required in this county for what was done from the shop
(non-occupied building).
Ideas?

Shove a long wire fish-tape down it, and connect it to
an RF emiter, and get a tuned receiver to wander around the yard with.

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
news

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.

Take two pieces of metal coat hanger wire, about 18" long. Bend them into
L's with a 12" and a 6" leg. Hold one in each hand by the short section,
each in a very loose fist, with the fronts of them dropped at the slightest
angles forward. You want them to be loose, and turn in your fists. Make
your fist as though you were holding something the size of a broom stick.
You want the wires to be really loose in there. The ends can go through the
opening in the bottom of your fist, but the tops can't rest on your top
finger or they won't turn.

Or you could just take a metal rod (Easier, when it has rained some to
soften the soil) & probe the dirt for it. My septic guy does that,
100% success rate. he just starts at the house where he knows them to
be, and works his way to the tank.

Or you could just take a metal rod (Easier, when it has rained some to
soften the soil) & probe the dirt for it. My septic guy does that,
100% success rate. he just starts at the house where he knows them to
be, and works his way to the tank.

There you go ... an elegant solution. Elegant means effective without
excess baggage.

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no! It does work!

On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 18:18:21 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
news

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.

Dowsing for water is folklore. Dowsing for PVC isn't.

"Grandpa" wrote in message
news:HKlHh.20055$as.14181@trnddc04...
Trying to help out a neighbor here. He is the third or fourth owner of
this place down the road, so he has no idea how the pipes are run. He has
a shop that has a toilet that somehow connects to the septic tank on the
other side of the property about 100' away. We know that the drain pipe
leaves the shop going north, but the tank inlet is NNW. We're looking for
a cheap and relatively easy way to trace the line so that he knows where
he can dig without hitting the pipe. We know the pipe is PVC. There are no
permits or plot plans required in this county for what was done from the
shop (non-occupied building).
Ideas?

I had a sewer line problem recently. A local guy that specializes in that
stuff put in a snake with some sort of transmitter and could follow it from
above. I pinpointed the line within an inch or two. I don't know what he'd
charge just for that since it was part of a much bigger job. I'd guess it
world be a minimum of $100 to come out though.

call it folklore if you want

We own a $3000 locator and a beacon. When we get conflicting
feedback, we get out the copper rods!!!

Doesn't cost anything to play, the line is probably not very deep.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.


Well, then don't use it. Go out and hire a guy and pay him whatever he
wants. The man asked for ideas. I gave him one. It was free, and
thoroughly worth the price. If he wants to try it, great. There is no
obligation to do anything I suggested.

As I said, I have used it, and it has worked for me countless times, and
left more than one person scratching their nuts and commenting, "Golleeee."
I'd bet a hundred dollar bill against a cold beer that I could find the
line.

Was I absent the day you were put in charge?

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.


Well, then don't use it. Go out and hire a guy and pay him whatever he
wants. The man asked for ideas. I gave him one. It was free, and
thoroughly worth the price. If he wants to try it, great. There is no
obligation to do anything I suggested.

As I said, I have used it, and it has worked for me countless times, and
left more than one person scratching their nuts and commenting,
"Golleeee." I'd bet a hundred dollar bill against a cold beer that I could
find the line.

Was I absent the day you were put in charge?

I'm trained in science, and know a hundred reasons why it can't work. But, I
grew up in construction, and have SEEN it work multiple times. I try not to
think about it- makes my head hurt.

aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news
"Charles Schuler" wrote in message
. ..
Steve, that was nasty.


Huh?

Dowsing is folklore.


Well, then don't use it. Go out and hire a guy and pay him whatever he
wants. The man asked for ideas. I gave him one. It was free, and
thoroughly worth the price. If he wants to try it, great. There is no
obligation to do anything I suggested.

As I said, I have used it, and it has worked for me countless times, and
left more than one person scratching their nuts and commenting,
"Golleeee." I'd bet a hundred dollar bill against a cold beer that I
could find the line.

Was I absent the day you were put in charge?

I'm trained in science, and know a hundred reasons why it can't work. But,
I grew up in construction, and have SEEN it work multiple times. I try not
to think about it- makes my head hurt.

aem sends...


I have seen it so many times. People who can't take in what they see,
confused so much by what they know.

I have heard it as "educated beyond capacity."

Drug companies went to jungles and asked old shamans what they used for
headaches, for diarrhea, for menstrual cramps, for sleeplessness.

The old ones took them to herbs and roots. When analyzed, they had some
ingredients that were helpful to the specific complaints. Kind of like
modern medicine poo poohing the ideas of acupuncture, acupressure, and
holistic medicines in favor of spendier brand name cures.

We are all hard wired. When we go against instincts, things we can see, and
instead go for things we have been indoctrinated in, there can only be
conflict.

I turn on the switch. The light comes on. Do I need to fully understand
the process?

Steve

"Bud--" wrote in message
.. .
aemeijers wrote:


Well, then don't use it. Go out and hire a guy and pay him whatever he
wants. The man asked for ideas. I gave him one. It was free, and
thoroughly worth the price. If he wants to try it, great. There is no
obligation to do anything I suggested.

As I said, I have used it, and it has worked for me countless times, and
left more than one person scratching their nuts and commenting,
"Golleeee." I'd bet a hundred dollar bill against a cold beer that I
could find the line.

Was I absent the day you were put in charge?


I'm trained in science, and know a hundred reasons why it can't work.
But, I grew up in construction, and have SEEN it work multiple times. I
try not to think about it- makes my head hurt.


If the ability can be demonstrated someone can make $1 million
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
People have tried and the $ is still there.

--
bud--

I doubt that two wires moving with relationship to an electromagnetic field,
or some other measurable force would be considered paranormal.

How does the water guy come out with a device and find lines?

Look. It's simple. It's free. It works.

If that's not good enough, let your fingers do the walking.

Steve

I'd just dig and fix whatever got hit. It's just PVC. On the other
hand, how do you know the toilet is connected to the main septic
tank? You might find another tank down there somewhere.


-rev



On Mar 6, 5:16 pm, Grandpa wrote:
Trying to help out a neighbor here. He is the third or fourth owner
of this place down the road, so he has no idea how the pipes are
run. He has a shop that has a toilet that somehow connects to the
septic tank on the other side of the property about 100' away. We
know that the drain pipe leaves the shop going north, but the tank
inlet is NNW. We're looking for a cheap and relatively easy way to
trace the line so that he knows where he can dig without hitting the
pipe. We know the pipe is PVC. There are no permits or plot plans
required in this county for what was done from the shop
(non-occupied building).
Ideas?

The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
I'd just dig and fix whatever got hit. It's just PVC. On the other
hand, how do you know the toilet is connected to the main septic
tank? You might find another tank down there somewhere.


-rev

Knowing its connected to the one septic tank is real easy as he had
a blockage in the house septic line last year and it backed up into
the shop! It starts out only about six inches below grade at the
shop. He wants to dig a new foundation for an outbuilding somewhere
north of his shop and doesn't want to reroute any sewer lines. Wants
to know where the line is before he starts with the backhoe. Being a
retired engineer, I kind of like the rf emitter approach. Being
cheap, I like the rod approach if the ground was softer. May try the
snake and use a metal detector, rather than the geiger counter idea.
My father was a dowser, but I didn't seem to inherit his "gift."

Thanks one and all for your suggestions. I certainly got more than I
"paid" for.
--
Grandpa

"Bud--" wrote in message
.. .
aemeijers wrote:


Well, then don't use it. Go out and hire a guy and pay him whatever he
wants. The man asked for ideas. I gave him one. It was free, and
thoroughly worth the price. If he wants to try it, great. There is no
obligation to do anything I suggested.

As I said, I have used it, and it has worked for me countless times, and
left more than one person scratching their nuts and commenting,
"Golleeee." I'd bet a hundred dollar bill against a cold beer that I
could find the line.

Was I absent the day you were put in charge?


I'm trained in science, and know a hundred reasons why it can't work.
But, I grew up in construction, and have SEEN it work multiple times. I
try not to think about it- makes my head hurt.


If the ability can be demonstrated someone can make $1 million
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
People have tried and the $ is still there.

Here is a snip from the above site:

To put it simply, the ideo-motor reflex is the same thing that makes dowsers
believe that they are actually divining. Although you BELIEVE that you are
not influencing the movement of the yo-yo, you actually ARE, though you are
entirely unconscious of it. The only way to prove that you are not
physically influencing the yo-yo, would be for you to NOT hold the yo-yo
string.

Nobody has ever successfully demonstrated dowsing under controlled
conditions ... and nobody ever will ... it is just horsepucky.

But, assay the responses in this thread. It is alarming that science is so
ill understood in these times. The dark ages are coming back.

Thanks for the link Bud and for the ONLY reasoned response. Scary!

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 16:25:15 -0500, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


"Bud--" wrote in message
. ..
aemeijers wrote:


Well, then don't use it. Go out and hire a guy and pay him whatever he
wants. The man asked for ideas. I gave him one. It was free, and
thoroughly worth the price. If he wants to try it, great. There is no
obligation to do anything I suggested.

As I said, I have used it, and it has worked for me countless times, and
left more than one person scratching their nuts and commenting,
"Golleeee." I'd bet a hundred dollar bill against a cold beer that I
could find the line.

Was I absent the day you were put in charge?


I'm trained in science, and know a hundred reasons why it can't work.
But, I grew up in construction, and have SEEN it work multiple times. I
try not to think about it- makes my head hurt.


If the ability can be demonstrated someone can make $1 million
http://www.randi.org/research/index.html
People have tried and the $ is still there.

Here is a snip from the above site:

To put it simply, the ideo-motor reflex is the same thing that makes dowsers
believe that they are actually divining. Although you BELIEVE that you are
not influencing the movement of the yo-yo, you actually ARE, though you are
entirely unconscious of it. The only way to prove that you are not
physically influencing the yo-yo, would be for you to NOT hold the yo-yo
string.

Nobody has ever successfully demonstrated dowsing under controlled
conditions ... and nobody ever will ... it is just horsepucky.

But, assay the responses in this thread. It is alarming that science is so
ill understood in these times. The dark ages are coming back.


It really looks like that sometimes, considering the garbage seen in
so many posts. I was thinking of posting a link, but I see Bud already
did.

I seemed to have already learned BS detection by the age of 5. I still
don't understand why so few have.

Thanks for the link Bud and for the ONLY reasoned response. Scary!

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster