On Tue, 04 May 2021 11:34:55 -0300, Shadow wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...93a_story.html

//A U.S. bankruptcy administrator asked a federal judge Monday to
dismiss the National Rifle Association’s efforts to declare bankruptcy
or appoint a trustee or examiner to oversee the gun rights
organization — a setback for the group at the close of a federal court
hearing to consider its petition.

The recommendation bolstered the arguments of New York Attorney
General Letitia James (D), whose office has fought the NRA’s attempts
to relocate from New York to Texas, and came after senior NRA
executives acknowledged in court testimony that they received lavish
perks.

Lisa Lambert, a lawyer with the U.S. trustee’s office — which
participates in bankruptcy cases to protect taxpayer interests and
enforce bankruptcy laws — told the court that the evidence presented
in the hearing showed that the nonprofit organization lacked proper
oversight and that personal expenses were masked as business costs.//

Non-profit?
LOL
[]'s

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.

On 5/4/2021 12:22 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2021 11:34:55 -0300, Shadow wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...93a_story.html

//A U.S. bankruptcy administrator asked a federal judge Monday to
dismiss the National Rifle Associations efforts to declare bankruptcy
or appoint a trustee or examiner to oversee the gun rights
organization €” a setback for the group at the close of a federal court
hearing to consider its petition.

The recommendation bolstered the arguments of New York Attorney
General Letitia James (D), whose office has fought the NRAs attempts
to relocate from New York to Texas, and came after senior NRA
executives acknowledged in court testimony that they received lavish
perks.

Lisa Lambert, a lawyer with the U.S. trustees office €” which
participates in bankruptcy cases to protect taxpayer interests and
enforce bankruptcy laws €” told the court that the evidence presented
in the hearing showed that the nonprofit organization lacked proper
oversight and that personal expenses were masked as business costs.//

Non-profit?
LOL
[]'s

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.

In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.



Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

Frank "frank writes:
On 5/4/2021 12:22 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2021 11:34:55 -0300, Shadow wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...93a_story.html

//A U.S. bankruptcy administrator asked a federal judge Monday to
dismiss the National Rifle Associations efforts to declare bankruptcy
or appoint a trustee or examiner to oversee the gun rights
organization €” a setback for the group at the close of a federal court
hearing to consider its petition.

The recommendation bolstered the arguments of New York Attorney
General Letitia James (D), whose office has fought the NRAs attempts
to relocate from New York to Texas, and came after senior NRA
executives acknowledged in court testimony that they received lavish
perks.

Lisa Lambert, a lawyer with the U.S. trustees office €” which
participates in bankruptcy cases to protect taxpayer interests and
enforce bankruptcy laws €” told the court that the evidence presented
in the hearing showed that the nonprofit organization lacked proper
oversight and that personal expenses were masked as business costs.//

Non-profit?
LOL
[]'s

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.

Since when is a non-profit lobbying organization "big business"?

Doesn't the rule of law apply to any non-profit?

Give it up Frank (if that's your real name, I suspect you're just
another russian troll sowing discord). You spew lies every time
you post to usenet.

On 5/4/2021 12:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 5/4/2021 12:22 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2021 11:34:55 -0300, Shadow wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...93a_story.html

//A U.S. bankruptcy administrator asked a federal judge Monday to
dismiss the National Rifle Associations efforts to declare bankruptcy
or appoint a trustee or examiner to oversee the gun rights
organization €” a setback for the group at the close of a federal court
hearing to consider its petition.

The recommendation bolstered the arguments of New York Attorney
General Letitia James (D), whose office has fought the NRAs attempts
to relocate from New York to Texas, and came after senior NRA
executives acknowledged in court testimony that they received lavish
perks.

Lisa Lambert, a lawyer with the U.S. trustees office €” which
participates in bankruptcy cases to protect taxpayer interests and
enforce bankruptcy laws €” told the court that the evidence presented
in the hearing showed that the nonprofit organization lacked proper
oversight and that personal expenses were masked as business costs.//

Non-profit?
LOL
[]'s

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.

Since when is a non-profit lobbying organization "big business"?

Doesn't the rule of law apply to any non-profit?

Give it up Frank (if that's your real name, I suspect you're just
another russian troll sowing discord). You spew lies every time
you post to usenet.


Give me a break. Russian trolls are not needed when there are folks
like you.

On 5/4/2021 12:49 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.



Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?


My employer was a lot bigger and older and now a shell of itself. Our
pension and health benefits come from a spinoff who is screwing us now
dropping dental coverage.

I recall there were maybe 6 company planes and during a business crunch
a VP wrote a note to the department about using both sides of a sheet of
paper and saving paper clips while traveling off with his wife to the US
Open in a company plane. These people lived large.

I'm an NRA lifer and note with 5 million members and $45 annual dues
there is a lot of money there. Also there is income from advertising in
their magazines. LaPierre lives large like other big organization leaders.

On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:48:13 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 5/4/2021 12:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 5/4/2021 12:22 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2021 11:34:55 -0300, Shadow wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...93a_story.html

//A U.S. bankruptcy administrator asked a federal judge Monday to
dismiss the National Rifle Association’s efforts to declare bankruptcy
or appoint a trustee or examiner to oversee the gun rights
organization — a setback for the group at the close of a federal court
hearing to consider its petition.

The recommendation bolstered the arguments of New York Attorney
General Letitia James (D), whose office has fought the NRA’s attempts
to relocate from New York to Texas, and came after senior NRA
executives acknowledged in court testimony that they received lavish
perks.

Lisa Lambert, a lawyer with the U.S. trustee’s office — which
participates in bankruptcy cases to protect taxpayer interests and
enforce bankruptcy laws — told the court that the evidence presented
in the hearing showed that the nonprofit organization lacked proper
oversight and that personal expenses were masked as business costs.//

Non-profit?
LOL
[]'s

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.

Since when is a non-profit lobbying organization "big business"?

Doesn't the rule of law apply to any non-profit?

Give it up Frank (if that's your real name, I suspect you're just
another russian troll sowing discord). You spew lies every time
you post to usenet.


and now for the diversion

Give me a break. Russian trolls are not needed when there are folks
like you.

Gratz. Spoken like a true double agent.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

On 5/4/2021 4:18 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:48:13 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 5/4/2021 12:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Frank "frank writes:
On 5/4/2021 12:22 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2021 11:34:55 -0300, Shadow wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...93a_story.html

//A U.S. bankruptcy administrator asked a federal judge Monday to
dismiss the National Rifle Associations efforts to declare bankruptcy
or appoint a trustee or examiner to oversee the gun rights
organization €” a setback for the group at the close of a federal court
hearing to consider its petition.

The recommendation bolstered the arguments of New York Attorney
General Letitia James (D), whose office has fought the NRAs attempts
to relocate from New York to Texas, and came after senior NRA
executives acknowledged in court testimony that they received lavish
perks.

Lisa Lambert, a lawyer with the U.S. trustees office €” which
participates in bankruptcy cases to protect taxpayer interests and
enforce bankruptcy laws €” told the court that the evidence presented
in the hearing showed that the nonprofit organization lacked proper
oversight and that personal expenses were masked as business costs.//

Non-profit?
LOL
[]'s

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.

Since when is a non-profit lobbying organization "big business"?

Doesn't the rule of law apply to any non-profit?

Give it up Frank (if that's your real name, I suspect you're just
another russian troll sowing discord). You spew lies every time
you post to usenet.


and now for the diversion

Give me a break. Russian trolls are not needed when there are folks
like you.

Gratz. Spoken like a true double agent.
[]'s

I guess you know.

On 05/04/2021 12:06 PM, Frank wrote:
I'm an NRA lifer and note with 5 million members and $45 annual dues
there is a lot of money there. Also there is income from advertising in
their magazines. LaPierre lives large like other big organization leaders.


If North and Cox had gotten rid of LaPierre it would have been no big
loss. He was always a little too oily for me.

On Tue, 4 May 2021 19:33:08 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


If North and Cox had gotten rid of LaPierre it would have been no big
loss. He was always a little too oily for me.

Perhaps, but is he as gossipy as you, lowbrowwoman?

On 5/4/2021 9:33 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/04/2021 12:06 PM, Frank wrote:
I'm an NRA lifer and note with 5 million members and $45 annual dues
there is a lot of money there.Â* Also there is income from advertising in
their magazines.Â* LaPierre lives large like other big organization
leaders.


If North and Cox had gotten rid of LaPierre it would have been no big
loss. He was always a little too oily for me.

I agree but it is not as bad as New York is claiming.

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.

On 05/05/2021 05:27 AM, Frank wrote:
On 5/4/2021 9:33 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 05/04/2021 12:06 PM, Frank wrote:
I'm an NRA lifer and note with 5 million members and $45 annual dues
there is a lot of money there. Also there is income from advertising in
their magazines. LaPierre lives large like other big organization
leaders.


If North and Cox had gotten rid of LaPierre it would have been no big
loss. He was always a little too oily for me.

I agree but it is not as bad as New York is claiming.

Morticia James is an elected official and wants to stay elected. That
plays well with the NYC crowd.

The upstate NRA members don't have the votes. If they elect somebody
like Gillibrand she turns coat at first chance. There's a reason I left
the state in the early '70s.

In article ,
says...

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.






I guess that GM is one of the things that is 'too big to fail'. Looks
to me that all the assets of the company should be sold off and the bond
holders paid off and if anything is left the stock holders get it.
However GM stays in business and the stockholders are left with nothing.
I bet the big wheels at GM got bonuses for the 'good job' they did.

A power company in California was another company that left the stock
holders holding the bag. The power never stopped following. The
service was too much to shut off and sell the power poles and wires to
pay off anyone.

From what little I know about the NRA it was a mission of the AG or
someone else to do them in. That is the reason of all the lawsuits and
other things. I think the NRA was going to move to another state to get
away from that.

On 5/5/2021 9:43 AM, rbowman wrote:
Morticia James

You were ahead of your time. I have an NY escapee across the street and
one next door.

NRA should have incorporated in DE where corporations are respected and
don't put up with crap like in NY. Never understood why now bankrupt
Remington stayed in NY.

DE is a blue state but derives about half its income from corporations.
Good for us residents with no sales tax, low income and property taxes
but enough NY and NJ refugees could ruin that if they took their
politics with them.

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 10:45:44 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.





I guess that GM is one of the things that is 'too big to fail'. Looks
to me that all the assets of the company should be sold off and the bond
holders paid off and if anything is left the stock holders get it.

That is one option in bankruptcy but I'm pretty sure if you did it
with GM the result, that the stockholders got nothing, would have been
the same and the results for the bondholders, most other creditors
and especially the employees
would have been worse. That's the calculation, negotiation, that went on
before they finalized the bankruptcy.







However GM stays in business and the stockholders are left with nothing.
I bet the big wheels at GM got bonuses for the 'good job' they did.

I doubt they got much from the bankruptcy but I would bet they got paid
well in the years leading up to it.




A power company in California was another company that left the stock
holders holding the bag. The power never stopped following. The
service was too much to shut off and sell the power poles and wires to
pay off anyone.

From what little I know about the NRA it was a mission of the AG or
someone else to do them in. That is the reason of all the lawsuits and
other things. I think the NRA was going to move to another state to get
away from that.

Right. The question here is whether you can legitimately go into bankruptcy
to try to avoid it when actually your actual, current finances are perfectly fine.

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out and they will not
have an easy way to **** with them.
They moved out of DC decades ago.
I still wonder why you anti gunners give a ****. It is not like you
actually had any of your money at stake.
An audit of NRA would not turn up any more improprieties than looking
at the Red Cross, United Way or BLM. All of the people running those
non-profits live large too.
I was curious why NRA was in New York in the first place.
In the mean time, I have my popcorn out, watching the case before the
current SCOTUS. "Sullivan" and similar draconian laws could get
tossed. That is really what has those politicians in NY/NJ upset. It
has nothing to do with whether LaPierre padded his expense account.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

On Wed, 05 May 2021 14:18:23 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

Everyone is moving out of NY. The AG is a George Soros backed servant.

--
Tekkie

On Wed, 05 May 2021 14:18:23 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

The reason NY is ****ed is because NRA plans to bust out NRA of New
York through bankruptcy so there is nothing to sue for and any
successful prosecution will most likely be in civil court. Once they
become the NRA of Texas corporation they are out of the jurisdiction
of the NY DA.
They just have to be careful to not to convey assets from NY to Texas
but this is an organization with plenty of cash flow so they can spend
that New York money pretty fast, on lawyers alone with the cases they
are bringing and defending. I imagine they are already banking new
money in another state. I think I am sending mine to Virginia and have
been for quite a while.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 17:31:51 -0400, posted for all of us to
digest...


On Wed, 05 May 2021 14:18:23 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

The reason NY is ****ed is because NRA plans to bust out NRA of New
York through bankruptcy so there is nothing to sue for and any
successful prosecution will most likely be in civil court. Once they
become the NRA of Texas corporation they are out of the jurisdiction
of the NY DA.
They just have to be careful to not to convey assets from NY to Texas
but this is an organization with plenty of cash flow so they can spend
that New York money pretty fast, on lawyers alone with the cases they
are bringing and defending. I imagine they are already banking new
money in another state. I think I am sending mine to Virginia and have
been for quite a while.

I wonder when the politicians in VA will attack?

--
Tekkie

On 05/05/2021 08:45 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
From what little I know about the NRA it was a mission of the AG or
someone else to do them in. That is the reason of all the lawsuits and
other things. I think the NRA was going to move to another state to get
away from that.

Right out of the SPLC playbook; sue them out of existence.

On 05/05/2021 09:04 AM, Frank wrote:
Good for us residents with no sales tax, low income and property taxes
but enough NY and NJ refugees could ruin that if they took their
politics with them.

New Hampshire didn't have a sales or income tax. Property taxes varied.
If you had kids and wanted quality schooling you picked the right town
and paid high taxes.

Then the Massholes started to move in... It was good while it lasted but
I left there in '88.

On Wed, 05 May 2021 17:31:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 14:18:23 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

The reason NY is ****ed is because NRA plans to bust out NRA of New
York through bankruptcy so there is nothing to sue for and any
successful prosecution will most likely be in civil court. Once they
become the NRA of Texas corporation they are out of the jurisdiction
of the NY DA.
They just have to be careful to not to convey assets from NY to Texas
but this is an organization with plenty of cash flow so they can spend
that New York money pretty fast, on lawyers alone with the cases they
are bringing and defending. I imagine they are already banking new
money in another state. I think I am sending mine to Virginia and have
been for quite a while.

They just need to get their story straight. Are they flush with cash or are
they on the brink of financial collapse. The judge wants to know, and I'd
like to know, as well.

On Wed, 5 May 2021 22:09:02 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


New Hampshire didn't have a sales or income tax. Property taxes varied.
If you had kids and wanted quality schooling you picked the right town
and paid high taxes.

So which school mad of you such a talented slick gossiper, lowbrowwoman?

On Wed, 5 May 2021 22:05:49 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Right out of the SPLC playbook; sue them out of existence.

Brilliant formulation, again, senile gossip! LOL

On Thu, 06 May 2021 01:56:48 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 17:31:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 14:18:23 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

The reason NY is ****ed is because NRA plans to bust out NRA of New
York through bankruptcy so there is nothing to sue for and any
successful prosecution will most likely be in civil court. Once they
become the NRA of Texas corporation they are out of the jurisdiction
of the NY DA.
They just have to be careful to not to convey assets from NY to Texas
but this is an organization with plenty of cash flow so they can spend
that New York money pretty fast, on lawyers alone with the cases they
are bringing and defending. I imagine they are already banking new
money in another state. I think I am sending mine to Virginia and have
been for quite a while.

They just need to get their story straight. Are they flush with cash or are
they on the brink of financial collapse. The judge wants to know, and I'd
like to know, as well.

That is what lawyers are for. My guess is the NRA of NY inc can show
financial stress but that doesn't mean NRA HQ in Virginia is in
trouble. It is just part of the scheming that goes on in corporate law
in this country and the NRA is far from the worst abuser. As I said I
am not even sure why NRA was in New York except as tradition. There
was a time when New York wasn't a state that hated the 2d amendment.
The same is true of Massachusetts and Connecticut. They used to have
thriving firearms industries but they are running them off.

On Thu, 06 May 2021 01:56:48 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...


On Wed, 05 May 2021 17:31:51 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 14:18:23 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Wed, 05 May 2021 12:41:19 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 5 May 2021 06:08:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 4, 2021 at 12:49:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , "frank says...

I especially liked the part where the judge asked the NRA to explain an
obvious conflict. The NRA wants to declare bankruptcy, but at the same time
they apparently sent a newsletter to their members in which they claimed to
be in the best financial shape ever. One of these things is not like the
other.


I guess neither of you understand how big business works.


Big business is set up to screw over the little people than mostly built
the business, or the stock holders.

The company I worked for was started in the local area around 1965 with
many good benefits and mainly a very good retirement. Around 1990 to
2010 it was sold several times , each time the benefits and retirement
were reduced. As far as the local workers nothing changed but a new
plant manager. By selling the company the eairly retirement benefits
were sort of null and void and the new company could dictate the new
benefits. It cost me and others around $ 1000 to $ 1500 a month in
retirement pension.

There are companies like a power company in California that about 10
years ago declared bankruptcy. The power never quit flowing,but the
stock holders were left without any stock.

Didn't GM sort of do the same thing ?

It's not unusual for companies to go bankrupt, for the stockholders to be
wiped out and for the company to be able to continue in business.
Stockholders are last on the list of those with any claim. In the case of GM,
other creditors and bondholders were ahead of GM. GM didn't have the
means to pay the bondholders, they wound up taking equity positions in
lieu of some of their bond claims as part of the bankruptcy negotiations.
When that happens, stockholders are
typically left with nothing. I suspect similar happened with the power
company. And it's not like a meteor struck GM one day, the stockholders
had plenty of time to get out during the long ride down. I would bet a
majority of stockholders at the end had taken those positions only in the
last months, betting that GM would not go bankrupt.

NRA is totally different. Starting with that AFAIK, they have not actually
gone bankrupt, just started the process. And they are not upside down,
they are doing it on the claim that they need that protection because of
the pending lawsuits from NY state. I don't know if anything like that has
ever been used successfully as a valid reason for bankruptcy. Seems
there is a good chance it will not be allowed.


New York is just ****ed that the NRA is moving out

As usual, you have it exactly backwards. I don't know how you so
consistently manage that. Must be a skill of some kind.

You won't have to do much checking to see that the NRA threatened to leave
NY and settle in TX *as a result of* the attention they were getting from
the NY AG.

If anyone is ****ed, it's the NRA. They'd like to get out from under the NY
AG's magnifying glass by moving to TX but she's saying, 'Hold on, not so
fast. We still have some business to do here."

rest snipped

The reason NY is ****ed is because NRA plans to bust out NRA of New
York through bankruptcy so there is nothing to sue for and any
successful prosecution will most likely be in civil court. Once they
become the NRA of Texas corporation they are out of the jurisdiction
of the NY DA.
They just have to be careful to not to convey assets from NY to Texas
but this is an organization with plenty of cash flow so they can spend
that New York money pretty fast, on lawyers alone with the cases they
are bringing and defending. I imagine they are already banking new
money in another state. I think I am sending mine to Virginia and have
been for quite a while.

They just need to get their story straight. Are they flush with cash or are
they on the brink of financial collapse. The judge wants to know, and I'd
like to know, as well.

Why?

--
Tekkie