I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.


How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

1) Laptop power supplies, when the laptop is not on? Is it different
when the laptop is disconnected?

2) Automobile Quick Charge 3.0 ports? My car is old so I have to add
one, like this one,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MNGJUPVG&psc=1
Some come with a switch in them and some don't. I picked this one
'cause it has a 1.1" hole saw, not for the switch. I suppose some new
cars come with QC 3.0 installed?

3) Radios, that have an on/off switch but the switch is not in the 110v.
line. It's somewhere in the transistor circuitry, after the radio's
power supply? Why don't they put the switch on the 110 volts?

4) Same question about TV's but since they are bigger, do they waste
even more? If they have to use a relay, they could use a relay. (Yes,
I agree that the remote control receiver has to be on all the time, but
I don't consider that a waste. It could be the only part that is on.)

5) What have I left out? Especially something that is different in
nature from the previous 4.


WRT 1, I've noticed that the black box that's part of the charging cable
is not hot, not even warm afaict, when I'm not charging anything. Does
that imply I'm not using much current? That I'm using no current?

WRT 2, cars, doesn't the alternator put out loads of extra electricity
anyhow except that there is a regulator to stop that. If the charger I'm
asking about or the lights or any accesorry (even maybe the heater fan)
is using electricity, does it make the engine work harder? Is the
amount significant? How many gallons an hour do all the accesories
together use?
Is the amount the engine would have to work to power a charger
that's not charging anything even measurable with other than a
galvanometer**?
** wikip doesn't say this but I was led to believe a galvanometer
is an ammeter for very small currents. Was that true? Is it still?
Anyhow, that's what I mean in the previous paragraph.

micky wrote

I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.


How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

1) Laptop power supplies, when the laptop is not on?

What the battery needs charging wise.

Is it different when the laptop is disconnected?

Yes, very little power is taken with a modern
very small switching power supply/charger.

2) Automobile Quick Charge 3.0 ports?
My car is old so I have to add one, like this one,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MNGJUPVG&psc=1

Same as the laptop.

Some come with a switch in them and some don't. I picked
this one 'cause it has a 1.1" hole saw, not for the switch. I
suppose some new cars come with QC 3.0 installed?

3) Radios, that have an on/off switch but the switch is
not in the 110v. line. It's somewhere in the transistor
circuitry, after the radio's power supply?

It doesn't actually switch anything, it tells the radio to turn off.

How much power it takes when off varys with the design.

Why don't they put the switch on the 110 volts?

Because the other switch is cheaper.

4) Same question about TV's but since
they are bigger, do they waste even more?

Yep, the worst designs can be quite bad.

If they have to use a relay, they could use a relay. (Yes, I agree
that the remote control receiver has to be on all the time, but
I don't consider that a waste. It could be the only part that is on.)

Yes with the best designs. But some of the smart ones
allow the firmware to be remotely updated so that
still needs to be active to know when to do that.

5) What have I left out?

Everything appliance wise except the most primitive now.

Especially something that is different in nature from the previous 4.

You can get power meters very cheaply.

WRT 1, I've noticed that the black box that's part of the charging
cable is not hot, not even warm afaict, when I'm not charging
anything. Does that imply I'm not using much current?

Yes.

That I'm using no current?

Nope, its never literally zero.

WRT 2, cars, doesn't the alternator put out loads of extra
electricity anyhow except that there is a regulator to stop that.

There always is a regulator.

If the charger I'm asking about or the lights or any
accesorry (even maybe the heater fan) is using
electricity, does it make the engine work harder?

Yep. But it isnt a fan heater in car.

Is the amount significant?

Nope.

How many gallons an hour do all the accesories together use?

Bugger all.

Is the amount the engine would have to work to power
a charger that's not charging anything even measurable
with other than a galvanometer**?

It is measurable with a power meter.

** wikip doesn't say this but I was led to believe a galvanometer
is an ammeter for very small currents. Was that true?

Yes.

Is it still?

Nope, we do it electronically now.

Anyhow, that's what I mean in the previous paragraph.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 17:31:12 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the trolling senile asshole's always predictable troll****

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rodent Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

On 28/03/2021 06:13, micky wrote:

I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.


Yup - and *much* preference to multiposting. Cross-posting to completely
different or trophy groups was the annoyance, mostly done by trolls.


How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

It's less than the electricity used when they are in use ;-)

However less - this depends on age, construction, type, and how much
power/cost you believe is significant.

Find yourself an AC plugin power meter and measure?

There are other metering methods for non-AC classes of equipment, a
clamp meter is a non-invasive measurer of current (and them hall-types
that also measure DC current are pretty useful in cars).

--
Adrian C

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 1:13:39 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.

Sorry, man. Google ****ing Groups won't let its users crosspost.
(Although considering how much crap originates with GG, that's
probably a good thing.)

You'll have to read my reply in alt.home.repair.

How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

They sure don't make tightwads like they used to:

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Electricity-Analyzer-Monitoring-Equipment/dp/B07M8JKLG5

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 01:13:16 -0400, micky
wrote:

How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

1) Laptop power supplies, when the laptop is not on? Is it different
when the laptop is disconnected?

Using my P4460 Kill-a-watt meter, I tried a mixed collection of
laptops and power supplies. Since the laptop is charging the battery
while it is turned off, and I didn't want to wait for the battery to
come to full charge, I simply removed the battery where possible:

Acer Chromebook 14
PS only 0 watts
PS with laptop turned off 0 watts

HP Pavilion dv8263dl
PS only 0 watts
PS with laptop turned off 3 watts

HP Pavilion dv6-1253cl
PS only 0 watts
PS with laptop turned off 0 watts


2) Automobile Quick Charge 3.0 ports? My car is old so I have to add
one, like this one,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MNGJUPVG&psc=1
Some come with a switch in them and some don't. I picked this one
'cause it has a 1.1" hole saw, not for the switch. I suppose some new
cars come with QC 3.0 installed?

3) Radios, that have an on/off switch but the switch is not in the 110v.
line. It's somewhere in the transistor circuitry, after the radio's
power supply? Why don't they put the switch on the 110 volts?

4) Same question about TV's but since they are bigger, do they waste
even more? If they have to use a relay, they could use a relay. (Yes,
I agree that the remote control receiver has to be on all the time, but
I don't consider that a waste. It could be the only part that is on.)

5) What have I left out? Especially something that is different in
nature from the previous 4.


WRT 1, I've noticed that the black box that's part of the charging cable
is not hot, not even warm afaict, when I'm not charging anything. Does
that imply I'm not using much current? That I'm using no current?

WRT 2, cars, doesn't the alternator put out loads of extra electricity
anyhow except that there is a regulator to stop that. If the charger I'm
asking about or the lights or any accesorry (even maybe the heater fan)
is using electricity, does it make the engine work harder? Is the
amount significant? How many gallons an hour do all the accesories
together use?
Is the amount the engine would have to work to power a charger
that's not charging anything even measurable with other than a
galvanometer**?
** wikip doesn't say this but I was led to believe a galvanometer
is an ammeter for very small currents. Was that true? Is it still?
Anyhow, that's what I mean in the previous paragraph.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 10:29:10 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 01:13:16 -0400, micky
wrote:

How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

1) Laptop power supplies, when the laptop is not on? Is it different
when the laptop is disconnected?

Using my P4460 Kill-a-watt meter, I tried a mixed collection of
laptops and power supplies. Since the laptop is charging the battery
while it is turned off, and I didn't want to wait for the battery to
come to full charge, I simply removed the battery where possible:

Acer Chromebook 14
PS only 0 watts
PS with laptop turned off 0 watts

HP Pavilion dv8263dl
PS only 0 watts
PS with laptop turned off 3 watts

HP Pavilion dv6-1253cl
PS only 0 watts
PS with laptop turned off 0 watts


I doubt it is really zero but a switched mode power supply plugged in
with no load may not be enough to start counting on a Kill a Watt
unless you left it plugged in for a really long time.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 01:13:16 -0400, micky
wrote:


I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.


How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

1) Laptop power supplies, when the laptop is not on? Is it different
when the laptop is disconnected?

Depends. The newer smaller switch mode supplies draw VERY litle.
My LenovoDuet power supply is 2 watts when plugged into the laptop -
laptop off, battery 96% charged - and the same when not plugged into
the computer. (0.2Amps) My Toshiba power supply for my 10inch tablet
does not register ANY draws when not connected, .2amps when plugged in
and charging.. When turned on it draws 0,22 amps

2) Automobile Quick Charge 3.0 ports? My car is old so I have to add
one, like this one,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MNGJUPVG&psc=1
Some come with a switch in them and some don't. I picked this one
'cause it has a 1.1" hole saw, not for the switch. I suppose some new
cars come with QC 3.0 installed?
The one in my truck draws less than 25Ma with nothing plugged in and
it is not switched.

3) Radios, that have an on/off switch but the switch is not in the 110v.
line. It's somewhere in the transistor circuitry, after the radio's
power supply? Why don't they put the switch on the 110 volts?

Many have a "memory" or a clock that is powered when plugged in and
turned off. I have onr that draws 0.2 amps on or off

4) Same question about TV's but since they are bigger, do they waste
even more? If they have to use a relay, they could use a relay. (Yes,
I agree that the remote control receiver has to be on all the time, but
I don't consider that a waste. It could be the only part that is on.)

Again - my 50 inch plasma fraws about 0.2Amos when on "standby" My
cable box draws more - IIRC it was 0.3 amps

5) What have I left out? Especially something that is different in
nature from the previous 4.


WRT 1, I've noticed that the black box that's part of the charging cable
is not hot, not even warm afaict, when I'm not charging anything. Does
that imply I'm not using much current? That I'm using no current?

WRT 2, cars, doesn't the alternator put out loads of extra electricity
anyhow except that there is a regulator to stop that. If the charger I'm
asking about or the lights or any accesorry (even maybe the heater fan)
is using electricity, does it make the engine work harder? Is the
amount significant? How many gallons an hour do all the accesories
together use?

Everything in a car uses a little bit of power and affects fuel
mileage - the question is, does it affect mileage in a measurable
amount??
One horsepower os about 745 watts
An alternator is something like 60 to 75% efficient depending on the
make and model, and the efficiency changes with load - the heavier
load the more efficient, to a point because the friction load doesn't
change much. So - assuming middle of the road efficiency of 70%, every
745 watts of power drawn consumes ABOUT 1065 watts of input power, or
just under 1.5HP
Now take that charger - and assume it's a cheapassed chinese outfit
and it draws 2 times what mine does -.05 amps or 0.6 watts - you can
figure out the answewr to that question REALLY easily now, can't
you???
Is the amount the engine would have to work to power a charger
that's not charging anything even measurable with other than a
galvanometer**?
1 watt is about .00134 of a horsepower so .6 watts is .00134x0.6=
about ,0008 HP at 100% efficiency or .001 HP at 70% efficiency if my
lousy math is correct. If the specific fuel consumption r of your
engine is .37 lb per HP hour - average for a Toyota Prius engine - it
would take .001X.37= 0.00037 lbs of gas per hour EXTRA to run that
charger. Since gas weighs about 6.3 lb per gallon that is about 0.0025
gallons of fuel per hour. My math is a bit rusty - but I think I'm in
the ballpark

Totally "gets lost in the noise"
** wikip doesn't say this but I was led to believe a galvanometer
is an ammeter for very small currents. Was that true? Is it still?
Anyhow, that's what I mean in the previous paragraph.

On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 1:13:39 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.


How much electricity do these things use when not in use?

1) Laptop power supplies, when the laptop is not on? Is it different
when the laptop is disconnected?

Very little.


2) Automobile Quick Charge 3.0 ports? My car is old so I have to add
one, like this one,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...MNGJUPVG&psc=1
Some come with a switch in them and some don't. I picked this one
'cause it has a 1.1" hole saw, not for the switch. I suppose some new
cars come with QC 3.0 installed?

Extremely little, some have an LED that's lit for example.



3) Radios, that have an on/off switch but the switch is not in the 110v.
line. It's somewhere in the transistor circuitry, after the radio's
power supply? Why don't they put the switch on the 110 volts?

Probably to keep the setting alive in at least some designs.



4) Same question about TV's but since they are bigger, do they waste
even more? If they have to use a relay, they could use a relay. (Yes,
I agree that the remote control receiver has to be on all the time, but
I don't consider that a waste. It could be the only part that is on.)

I would guess it could be a few watts when off. Enough to keep the
infrared remote circuitry going so it can be turned on.




5) What have I left out? Especially something that is different in
nature from the previous 4.


WRT 1, I've noticed that the black box that's part of the charging cable
is not hot, not even warm afaict, when I'm not charging anything. Does
that imply I'm not using much current? That I'm using no current?

That you're using very little.



WRT 2, cars, doesn't the alternator put out loads of extra electricity
anyhow except that there is a regulator to stop that. If the charger I'm
asking about or the lights or any accesorry (even maybe the heater fan)
is using electricity, does it make the engine work harder? Is the
amount significant? How many gallons an hour do all the accesories
together use?

Yes, the more loads, the more power it take to turn the alternator.
How that translates into gallons of gasoline, IDK. But given you can
run a 5000W generator for a good time on a gallon of gas, I suspect
it's not much of a factor in gasoline consumption in a car compared
to driving.





Is the amount the engine would have to work to power a charger
that's not charging anything even measurable with other than a
galvanometer**?

If the alternator is not charging anything, the amount is going to
be negligible, it's just the friction losses in the bearings, etc.


** wikip doesn't say this but I was led to believe a galvanometer
is an ammeter for very small currents. Was that true? Is it still?
Anyhow, that's what I mean in the previous paragraph.

AFAIK they were early ammeters and have been pretty much replaced
by digital ones. That works for me.

If you're interested in finding out how much power 120V plug-in AC
devices use, buy a Kill-a-Watt meter for about $20

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 01:13:16 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


I'd appreciate it any replies went to all three groups that this is
posted to so I don't have to read all three to see all the replies.
When I started in Usenet, that was considered the proper way.


No, it wasn't.

--
Tekkie