wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:12:53 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex
doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here
are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t
allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when

The eligible voters are all the members but it doesn't require a
unanimous vote. So things can still be shoved down the throat of those
who disagree. The % vote here might vary depending on the sort of
issue.

However here we have the opposite problem, and that is we have to change
the covenants or by-laws to raise the dues and we can can never get
enough votes, so as prices go up we can't afford to pay them. For
lawn-mowing and gardening of the common areas, although there isn't much
of that, if they are to come frequently it costs a bunch of money.

And snow-plowing varies a lot from year to year, but when it snows it
costs a bunch of money.

And recently we had to replace 3 of the 4 fire hydrants, because the
fire department checks them periodically and they seem to only last 30
or 40 years, and the FD insists they be replaced, and that was 10,000 or
something for 100 families.

And we've had a few water main leaks, each costing several thousand,
possibly because the original builder used the wrong pipe, not the
somewhat flexible metal pipe under the roads and when a really truck
comes by, it can break the pipe. Although the last leak was under a
sidewalk. First time we've had a leak under a sidewalk.
The plumber digs but we have to hire a cement guy to replace the
sidewalk.

And the biggest expense is repaving the road, I think the last time it
cost $150,000, and prices have probably gone up.

And repaving once and repairing once, each time raised the surface of
the parking lot an inch, including in front of the main storm drain, at
the bottom of the hill, two spots from where I park. The opening was 4
inches high and losing 2 inches meant it couldn't handle all the water
from the top of the hill to the north and west. And it would pool and
actually entered a neighbor's car. She claimed it ruined her car. I
find that hard to believe. The same day it came to one inch of my
doorway and while I don't think it would have ruined the car, it would
have made a lot of work and some expense to clean it.
That problem is solved but it wasn't easy.

We also pay electricity for the street lights but that's not much money,
and we pay a management company to handle paperwork, and maybe we have
some other expenses.

So we have all these expenses and we can't raise the dues. A little
bit twice in 38 years.

You just need to let the baby touch the stove sometimes.

Stop providing services they won't pay for.
They will come around pretty fast.
We seem to have a pretty good group here.

We arent silly enough to have HOAs here.

Our dues are about twice what we actually spend most
years on general maintenance so we have a nice reserve.
We don't actually provide that much tho. Our streets are
public roads, one of the 3 only communities in the "village"
where that is true and they are all right here in this cluster.

All of ours are public roads, the developer has to do the
roads to county standards and the local council does what
maintenance is needed on them, decades after they are
first done and that's only another top seal of chipseal.

We mow the park

The council mows our parks and the cost of that
is included in the property taxes we pay. Even the
renters pay that indirectly in the rent they pay.

and the area around the boat ramp.

We have two boat ramps, one for the sailing club and
one for the boat club, both of which are by subscription
operations off the side of the big public park on the
big lake. Not sure who does the mowing.

We maintain that ramp and 3 docks. Your yard is your business.

We used to mow vacants if the owner
paid his dues but we stopped that too.

The council makes the owner mow
the vacant blocks if they get too bad.

There are not many vacants here anyway now.

We are voluntary pay and we still get 85-90%.

One thing that helps is you can't get a ramp key without paying.

Same here, tho its not the ramp that's locked, it's the gate
to the big slab of the park the club has with its club house
and barby areas etc.

We do have private docks in areas along the coast.

We have no more power than what we can
negotiate as neighbors and that is fine with us.

We do have a different system with what you lot call condos.

Not sure what the gated communitys do altho they arent
actually gated in the sense of having gate guards. Almost
all are retirement communitys.
'
Come to think of it you don't see cars parked outside the
houses in ours but there were in the retirement village
that my dad chose to move into after his wife died.
That one didn't have garages.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:33:31 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:43:41 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 09:32:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex
doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not
be
in them. They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.


That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent
to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the
buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

The biggest city in Lee County Florida (Cape Coral) banned pickups or
any kind of truck. I think they are backing off of that a little but
it is still pretty restrictive.They also have had other silly laws. I
don't keep track but I know in the 80s you couldn't leave your shoes
on the front porch.

There are plenty of HOAs that ban parking anything in your driveway.
It has to be in the garage and the door has to be closed.

Fark, why do you lot put up with **** like that ?

I have been in the Cape about 5 times in the
last 20 years. I wouldn't put up with that crap.

But clearly some fools do.

Most populous city in the county.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:26:45 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 03/22/2021 12:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/22/2021 11:31 AM, wrote:


But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

The biggest city in Lee County Florida (Cape Coral) banned pickups or
any kind of truck. I think they are backing off of that a little but
it is still pretty restrictive.They also have had other silly laws. I
don't keep track but I know in the 80s you couldn't leave your shoes
on the front porch.
There are plenty of HOAs that ban parking anything in your driveway.
It has to be in the garage and the door has to be closed.


That may have worked in 1958 but today, there are many pickups used for
daily drivers. They are 20% of new vehicle sales.

Ban pickups around here and a lot of people would be walking.

People shoot ARs in the yard in Montana

This is the house we rented in Paradise Valley (the green one next to
the red barn). The guy at the bottom of the hill had a 300 yard range
across that valley.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/montana/Par...20mountain.jpg

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:58:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 5:13:10 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
The eligible voters are all the members but it doesn't require a
unanimous vote. So things can still be shoved down the throat of those
who disagree. The % vote here might vary depending on the sort of
issue.

However here we have the opposite problem, and that is we have to change
the covenants or by-laws to raise the dues and we can can never get
enough votes, so as prices go up we can't afford to pay them. For
lawn-mowing and gardening of the common areas, although there isn't much
of that, if they are to come frequently it costs a bunch of money.

And snow-plowing varies a lot from year to year, but when it snows it
costs a bunch of money.

And recently we had to replace 3 of the 4 fire hydrants, because the
fire department checks them periodically and they seem to only last 30
or 40 years, and the FD insists they be replaced, and that was 10,000 or
something for 100 families.

And we've had a few water main leaks, each costing several thousand,
possibly because the original builder used the wrong pipe, not the
somewhat flexible metal pipe under the roads and when a really truck
comes by, it can break the pipe. Although the last leak was under a
sidewalk. First time we've had a leak under a sidewalk.
The plumber digs but we have to hire a cement guy to replace the
sidewalk.

And the biggest expense is repaving the road, I think the last time it
cost $150,000, and prices have probably gone up.

And repaving once and repairing once, each time raised the surface of
the parking lot an inch, including in front of the main storm drain, at
the bottom of the hill, two spots from where I park. The opening was 4
inches high and losing 2 inches meant it couldn't handle all the water
from the top of the hill to the north and west. And it would pool and
actually entered a neighbor's car. She claimed it ruined her car. I
find that hard to believe. The same day it came to one inch of my
doorway and while I don't think it would have ruined the car, it would
have made a lot of work and some expense to clean it.
That problem is solved but it wasn't easy.

We also pay electricity for the street lights but that's not much money,
and we pay a management company to handle paperwork, and maybe we have
some other expenses.

So we have all these expenses and we can't raise the dues. A little
bit twice in 38 years.

All that stuff is paid for by tax dollars where I live. Cheapskates don't
get to ruin it for everybody else.

Cindy Hamilton

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 7:25:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton
It is state by state and maybe even down to the local level somewhere
but in Florida they can change the bylaws and possibly the covenants
at the annual meeting and it does not have to be a unanimous vote.

Both you and micky thought I indicated a unanimous vote. "All" indicated
that all homeowners in the covenant can participate in voting, implying
not just the governing body.

Cindy Hamilton

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:


I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.

I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.

Cindy Hamilton

On 3/23/21 5:42 AM, wrote:
On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:

I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.
I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.

Cindy Hamilton


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

In article ,
lid says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 6:32:39 AM UTC-4, jimmy wrote:
On 3/23/21 5:42 AM, wrote:
On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:

I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.
I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.

Cindy Hamilton
Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.

My God, you're hateful. Doesn't it eat away at you?

Cindy Hamilton

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.



I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.

Heh. I came home one day, pulled my car into the garage, left the door
open (intending to come back a few minutes later), went into the house
to change out of my good clothes, and came back out. In the meantime,
a mallard female walked into the garage. When she noticed me, she
took flight, quacking like hell. I screamed. I don't know which one of us
was more startled by the other.

Cindy Hamilton

On 03/23/2021 07:31 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
lid says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.


We used to look forward to the swallows returning to the garage in the
spring.

On 3/23/2021 9:42 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/23/2021 07:31 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
lid says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a
democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed.* If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.


We used to look forward to the swallows returning to the garage in the
spring.

I leave mine open and birds will nest and door is closed at night. Also
a couple of years ago when I went in attached garage several times a
squirrel was running out. Don't know what he was up to but I hear they
can wreck havoc with your car's wiring.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:38:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 7:25:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton
It is state by state and maybe even down to the local level somewhere
but in Florida they can change the bylaws and possibly the covenants
at the annual meeting and it does not have to be a unanimous vote.

Both you and micky thought I indicated a unanimous vote. "All" indicated
that all homeowners in the covenant can participate in voting, implying
not just the governing body.

Cindy Hamilton

The most onerous things HOAs do can be a simple rule change that the
board can do by majority vote. In some cases it is just an
interpretation of an existing rule that stretches the meaning but you
need a lawyer to fight it and you still might lose. At my wife's HOA
they had cases where one board member would create a policy without
even consulting the other board members and the people would just go
along because they didn't know.
I am very happy we don't have a real HOA here. In fact, I am the one
who raised the rabble that defeated the idea of reinstating the HOA
that expired in 1978. The vote went 14 "for" to 44 "against" in the
most heavily attended annual meeting in the history of our
neighborhood. I just took the time to knock on every door in the
neighborhood and see what they thought.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:50:03 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

Our biggest incentive to pay is the ramp. Without the boat ramp our
participation might be a dozen.
One of the reasons I bought here was the public roads. I know people
on private roads and how much they have to pay, just to keep them
passable.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:31:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.

We have lots of critters that would set up housekeeping in your garage
if it was open. My wife had to go run off all sorts of things when she
was at the HOA. She is not afraid to go after anything with a broom.
The biggest was a 4 foot nile monitor. She had help with this gator.

http://gfretwell.com/wildlife/judygator.jpg

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:47:34 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/23/2021 9:42 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 03/23/2021 07:31 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
lid says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a
democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed.Â* If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.


We used to look forward to the swallows returning to the garage in the
spring.

I leave mine open and birds will nest and door is closed at night. Also
a couple of years ago when I went in attached garage several times a
squirrel was running out. Don't know what he was up to but I hear they
can wreck havoc with your car's wiring.

A squirrel is just a rat with a publicist. They chew on the same sort
of stuff. Neither offend me outside but in the house they are a dead
rodent walking. Rat shot in my Colt Frontier Scout seems to do the
deed with minimal collateral damage.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:50:03 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

Two moves back, I was in a neighborhood where the guy across the street
hadn't paid his HOA dues in nearly 15 years. Rather than take him to court,
the HOA just placed a lien on his home, updating it every year to reflect
the new amount, so that when he sells the home they get their money. With
no plans to sell, he figured the joke was on them.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:31:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.

Most days, my garage doors (3-car garage) are open during daylight hours.
Several of my neighbors do it the same way. We never park inside the
garage, so the vehicles are always on the driveway. The garage is primarily
my woodworking shop.

" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 6:32:39 AM UTC-4, jimmy wrote:
On 3/23/21 5:42 AM, wrote:
On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:

I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the
garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often
as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at
houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't
face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant
disqualifications.
I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is,
if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the
snow.

Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat
to steal your stuff.

My God, you're hateful.

Yes.

Doesn't it eat away at you?

Its likely that what eats away at him is what made him hateful.

On 3/23/2021 11:59 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:38:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 7:25:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton
It is state by state and maybe even down to the local level somewhere
but in Florida they can change the bylaws and possibly the covenants
at the annual meeting and it does not have to be a unanimous vote.

Both you and micky thought I indicated a unanimous vote. "All" indicated
that all homeowners in the covenant can participate in voting, implying
not just the governing body.

Cindy Hamilton

The most onerous things HOAs do can be a simple rule change that the
board can do by majority vote. In some cases it is just an
interpretation of an existing rule that stretches the meaning but you
need a lawyer to fight it and you still might lose. At my wife's HOA
they had cases where one board member would create a policy without
even consulting the other board members and the people would just go
along because they didn't know.
I am very happy we don't have a real HOA here. In fact, I am the one
who raised the rabble that defeated the idea of reinstating the HOA
that expired in 1978. The vote went 14 "for" to 44 "against" in the
most heavily attended annual meeting in the history of our
neighborhood. I just took the time to knock on every door in the
neighborhood and see what they thought.



Buying a new house in Florida without an HOA is difficult unless you buy
a piece of land and build. I was not willing to do that.

I did, however, take the time to read the regulations. They were not
overly restrictive. Nor did I hear from anyone when I broke a couple of
rules the first week here.

I used PODS when we moved and they sat in my driveway a little longer
than the rules. Not a big deal but it is there to prevent someone from
putting on in front of the house for permanent storage.

" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a
democrat to steal your stuff.



I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.

Heh. I came home one day, pulled my car into the garage, left the door
open (intending to come back a few minutes later), went into the house
to change out of my good clothes, and came back out. In the meantime,
a mallard female walked into the garage. When she noticed me, she
took flight, quacking like hell. I screamed. I don't know which one of
us
was more startled by the other.

Wota wimp.

I have a massive great line of trees all down the park side of my very long
house.
One summer the local galahs decided that my trees were a great place to
roost.
All sitting there in the trees, jabbering away to each other, feasting on
the
seeds in my trees. I came out of the house to go shopping and the hundreds
of them all took off at once. One hell of a noise. I didnt turn a hair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:E...capilla_AF.jpg

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:50:03 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here
are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t
allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the
buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and
puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a
lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have
to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

Our biggest incentive to pay is the ramp. Without the boat ramp our
participation might be a dozen.
One of the reasons I bought here was the public roads. I know people
on private roads and how much they have to pay, just to keep them
passable.

It costs peanuts here, because they have to be done right in the first
place.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 06:02:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I have a massive great line of trees all down the park side of my very long
house.

You can shove them all up your senile arse, just like your "Alexa", your
"Philips Hue" and your "Google Maps", senile trolling arsehole!

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 05:57:47 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


My God, you're hateful.

Yes.

Good that you felt personally addressed, senile pest!

Doesn't it eat away at you?

Its likely that what eats away at him is what made him hateful.

Good description of yourself, senile cretin!

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 3/23/2021 2:56 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:31:50 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
lid says...


Leaving a street-facing garage door open is an invitation for a democrat to steal your stuff.




I have to keep my garage door closed. If I do not, the birds will try
to build a nest inside or crap all over everything.

Most days, my garage doors (3-car garage) are open during daylight hours.
Several of my neighbors do it the same way. We never park inside the
garage, so the vehicles are always on the driveway. The garage is primarily
my woodworking shop.


My neighbor leaves his open most of the day too. He covers the back of
the cars with a blanket to keep the afternoon sun off of them.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 06:11:29 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



It costs peanuts here, because they have to be done right in the first
place.

Keep TEACHING those stupid Yanks how to do things the right way, sociopathic
Ozzie swine! tsk

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:42:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:


I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.

I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.

My DR Horton (builder) sales guy, as well as several realtors, all said
that homes with side-facing garages were quicker to sell, so I guess it's
something that people want.

It simply doesn't work for me at all. On those houses, they always seem to
put the garage door on a side of the house that has no windows, and since
we park on the driveway and leave our garage door(s) open during daylight
hours, it's not an acceptable situation for us.

Like I said, instant disqualification, just like a driveway that slopes
down toward the garage, as if rain is going to run uphill away from the
house, or a front yard that has an open drainage ditch where you'd expect a
sidewalk to be. I'm looking at you, Florida. Stick a culvert in there and
cover it with dirt & sod, for crying out loud. No one wants to see standing
water in an open drainage ditch. I'm supposed to mow that? I'm supposed to
control the mosquitoes? I don't think so. There are lots of houses for
sale, let's keep going. We don't even have to get out of the car to look
inside.

When we go house hunting, our list of disqualifying conditions is fairly
extensive but realtors seem to like the fact that we've gone to the trouble
of making a list.

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:42:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:


I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.

I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.
My DR Horton (builder) sales guy, as well as several realtors, all said
that homes with side-facing garages were quicker to sell, so I guess it's
something that people want.

It simply doesn't work for me at all. On those houses, they always seem to
put the garage door on a side of the house that has no windows, and since
we park on the driveway and leave our garage door(s) open during daylight
hours, it's not an acceptable situation for us.

Ah, well. My garage isn't attached to the house. It doesn't much matter which
way it faces.

Why do you leave your garage door(s) open during daylight hours?

Like I said, instant disqualification, just like a driveway that slopes
down toward the garage, as if rain is going to run uphill away from the
house, or a front yard that has an open drainage ditch where you'd expect a
sidewalk to be.

We have such a ditch, but it never has standing water in it. Or never more
than an inch or so for a short while after a heavy rain.

Another ditch runs behind our property and in the spring it has a fair
amount of water in it. But by mosquito hatching time, it's dry.

We've only been house hunting three times. It's not a hobby for us. We've been
in this house 21 years and plan to leave feet first. My mother has us beat by a
long shot: she's been in the same house since 1966.

Cindy Hamilton

" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:42:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:


I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the
garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often
as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at
houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't
face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant
disqualifications.

I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is,
if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the
snow.
My DR Horton (builder) sales guy, as well as several realtors, all said
that homes with side-facing garages were quicker to sell, so I guess it's
something that people want.

It simply doesn't work for me at all. On those houses, they always seem
to
put the garage door on a side of the house that has no windows, and since
we park on the driveway and leave our garage door(s) open during daylight
hours, it's not an acceptable situation for us.

Ah, well. My garage isn't attached to the house. It doesn't much matter
which
way it faces.

Why do you leave your garage door(s) open during daylight hours?

Like I said, instant disqualification, just like a driveway that slopes
down toward the garage, as if rain is going to run uphill away from the
house, or a front yard that has an open drainage ditch where you'd expect
a
sidewalk to be.

We have such a ditch, but it never has standing water in it. Or never
more
than an inch or so for a short while after a heavy rain.

Another ditch runs behind our property and in the spring it has a fair
amount of water in it. But by mosquito hatching time, it's dry.

We've only been house hunting three times. It's not a hobby for us.
We've been in this house 21 years and plan to leave feet first. My mother
has us beat by a long shot: she's been in the same house since 1966.

I've been in mine since 73 and similarly plan to leave it feet first.
Not interested in retirement villages or nursing homes either.
When I no longer have what I consider is an acceptable lifestyle
I will just pull the plug.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 08:16:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I've been in mine since 73 and similarly plan to leave it feet first.
Not interested in retirement villages or nursing homes either.
When I no longer have what I consider is an acceptable lifestyle
I will just pull the plug.

Ahem! NOBODY asked you anything or even talked to you, senile sociopath! LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:22:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:42:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:


I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.

I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.
My DR Horton (builder) sales guy, as well as several realtors, all said
that homes with side-facing garages were quicker to sell, so I guess it's
something that people want.

It simply doesn't work for me at all. On those houses, they always seem to
put the garage door on a side of the house that has no windows, and since
we park on the driveway and leave our garage door(s) open during daylight
hours, it's not an acceptable situation for us.

Ah, well. My garage isn't attached to the house. It doesn't much matter which
way it faces.

Back in the early 90's I briefly rented a house with a detached garage. I
knew it wouldn't be an ideal situation, so I wasn't surprised when I didn't
like it. You get spoiled quickly when you can go to the garage without
going outside.

Why do you leave your garage door(s) open during daylight hours?

We're in and out far too often throughout the day to be opening and closing
the door each time, especially my wife. She usually spends her days
outside, planting flowers and doing other green yard work. For me, when I'm
not working at my real job I like to go out there and build something. I've
made most of our tables, chairs, rocking chairs, storage cabinets,
dressers, yard art, etc. Every time I put a wishing well or water wheel in
the front yard someone stops by, asking to buy it. I always sell so I can
make another, just for the fun of it and to try to tweak the design.

One nice thing about modern technology is that the garage door texts me if
I leave it open past dusk, and it makes seasonal adjustments to the time.
Dusk in February isn't the same as dusk in August.

Like I said, instant disqualification, just like a driveway that slopes
down toward the garage, as if rain is going to run uphill away from the
house, or a front yard that has an open drainage ditch where you'd expect a
sidewalk to be.

We have such a ditch, but it never has standing water in it. Or never more
than an inch or so for a short while after a heavy rain.

Another ditch runs behind our property and in the spring it has a fair
amount of water in it. But by mosquito hatching time, it's dry.

We've only been house hunting three times. It's not a hobby for us. We've been
in this house 21 years and plan to leave feet first. My mother has us beat by a
long shot: she's been in the same house since 1966.

It seems to be becoming the norm to move every 7 years or so. I've had
multiple realtors tell me that. For us, we tend to get itchy around the 5
year mark and we're gone either that year or the next. The country is too
big to stay in one place for long.

Now that we're getting older, we're starting to think about summer homes.
We like Frankenmuth or Tawas City in Michigan, the Black Hills of South
Dakota, the area just west of Boston near Waltham, and the area around
Kennebunkport, Maine. Newport, RI, was really nice, but I think it caters
to a better class of people than we are.

On 3/23/2021 6:25 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:


It seems to be becoming the norm to move every 7 years or so. I've had
multiple realtors tell me that. For us, we tend to get itchy around the 5
year mark and we're gone either that year or the next. The country is too
big to stay in one place for long.

Now that we're getting older, we're starting to think about summer homes.
We like Frankenmuth or Tawas City in Michigan, the Black Hills of South
Dakota, the area just west of Boston near Waltham, and the area around
Kennebunkport, Maine. Newport, RI, was really nice, but I think it caters
to a better class of people than we are.


If you like to move, good for you. I'm in my third house since I got
married 55 years ago. Last house was 37 years.

My next door neighbor is 78. Our houses are 2 1/2 years old and he just
sold to move from FL to TN. Something like 29 times for his including
in the service.

His next house needs a new roof and updated kitchen so he is planning
now for the move in a few weeks. One reason I bought here was I should
need nothing more than maybe a light bulb for the rest of my life.

My daughter is moving over the weekend. Her 25th address, 7th in FL
alone.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:44:29 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:50:03 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

Two moves back, I was in a neighborhood where the guy across the street
hadn't paid his HOA dues in nearly 15 years. Rather than take him to court,
the HOA just placed a lien on his home, updating it every year to reflect
the new amount, so that when he sells the home they get their money. With
no plans to sell, he figured the joke was on them.

I am not sure what state you are talking about but in Florida, if he
has a mortgage, the joke might be on them.
Their lien is subordinate to the 1st and other subsequent mortgages
and if they try to go to foreclosure, the mortgage company will bid
the outstanding loan value. There won't be any money in the pot unless
someone can outbid the mortgage company.
If it is a tax lien auction, everyone else's encumbrance is wiped out.
Usually again, the mortgage company will pay the tax to avoid that
process and foreclose on the mortgage.
I went through all of this trying to get the house next door. I had a
pretty good lawyer but not willing to spend enough money to outbid the
mortgage company for a tear down. They still ended up taking a $50k
bath and the other $20k in bad paper was just gone.
Some of it was voided anyway because there is a time limit on some
types of liens. Either foreclose within a couple of years or lose it.
Mechanic's liens are certainly that way. I don't know about HOA liens.
That was the only kind of bad paper she didn't have.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:00:43 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/23/2021 11:59 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:38:37 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 7:25:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton
It is state by state and maybe even down to the local level somewhere
but in Florida they can change the bylaws and possibly the covenants
at the annual meeting and it does not have to be a unanimous vote.

Both you and micky thought I indicated a unanimous vote. "All" indicated
that all homeowners in the covenant can participate in voting, implying
not just the governing body.

Cindy Hamilton

The most onerous things HOAs do can be a simple rule change that the
board can do by majority vote. In some cases it is just an
interpretation of an existing rule that stretches the meaning but you
need a lawyer to fight it and you still might lose. At my wife's HOA
they had cases where one board member would create a policy without
even consulting the other board members and the people would just go
along because they didn't know.
I am very happy we don't have a real HOA here. In fact, I am the one
who raised the rabble that defeated the idea of reinstating the HOA
that expired in 1978. The vote went 14 "for" to 44 "against" in the
most heavily attended annual meeting in the history of our
neighborhood. I just took the time to knock on every door in the
neighborhood and see what they thought.



Buying a new house in Florida without an HOA is difficult unless you buy
a piece of land and build. I was not willing to do that.

I imagine that is true. There are not many builders building one off
spec houses. I do know some "on your lot" builders tho but they are
mostly high end.
I would sub a house out myself if I was building but my wife still
knows lots of people in the business.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:30:22 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:


Like I said, instant disqualification, just like a driveway that slopes
down toward the garage, as if rain is going to run uphill away from the
house, or a front yard that has an open drainage ditch where you'd expect a
sidewalk to be. I'm looking at you, Florida. Stick a culvert in there and
cover it with dirt & sod, for crying out loud. No one wants to see standing
water in an open drainage ditch. I'm supposed to mow that? I'm supposed to
control the mosquitoes? I don't think so. There are lots of houses for
sale, let's keep going. We don't even have to get out of the car to look
inside.


I agree on the driveway or even the whole house. I want to be above
the road. That is particularly true if you have city sewer. The sewer
line typically runs down the center of the street and if it backs up,
I want the **** to come out of a manhole in the road, not my shower.
The swales should drain. If they don't I would be on the county/city's
ass until they fixed the grading. It is OK in front of my house but we
have a few places where homeowners have built dams and blocked the
original flow. DOT screwed up on the inspections to allow that. They
own it. They own the first 24' next to the road here. If I didn't want
to mow it, I could make them do it. I don't bother because I want it
mowed more often than the Bushhog comes down here. They do maintain
the swales on the main road coming in at the end of my street.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 13:22:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 3:30:27 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 02:42:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:16:46 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:32:42 -0400, micky wrote:


I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.
My wife and I relocate every 5-6 years or so, or about half as often as I
moved during my 20-year military career. When we were looking at houses for
this latest move, we saw several houses where the garage door doesn't face
the street. We added that to our long list of instant disqualifications.

I think I'd like a garage door that doesn't face the street. As it is, if we wanted
to hire snow removal it would be difficult to find someplace to put the snow.
My DR Horton (builder) sales guy, as well as several realtors, all said
that homes with side-facing garages were quicker to sell, so I guess it's
something that people want.

It simply doesn't work for me at all. On those houses, they always seem to
put the garage door on a side of the house that has no windows, and since
we park on the driveway and leave our garage door(s) open during daylight
hours, it's not an acceptable situation for us.

Ah, well. My garage isn't attached to the house. It doesn't much matter which
way it faces.

Why do you leave your garage door(s) open during daylight hours?

Like I said, instant disqualification, just like a driveway that slopes
down toward the garage, as if rain is going to run uphill away from the
house, or a front yard that has an open drainage ditch where you'd expect a
sidewalk to be.

We have such a ditch, but it never has standing water in it. Or never more
than an inch or so for a short while after a heavy rain.

Another ditch runs behind our property and in the spring it has a fair
amount of water in it. But by mosquito hatching time, it's dry.

We've only been house hunting three times. It's not a hobby for us. We've been
in this house 21 years and plan to leave feet first. My mother has us beat by a
long shot: she's been in the same house since 1966.

Cindy Hamilton

Once I cleaned out the jungle behind my house and the village cleaned
out the swale on the other side of FPL, my mosquito problems pretty
much went away. I am up on FPL several times a day/night and I seldom
even see one. It used to be horrible.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 19:54:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/23/2021 6:25 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:


It seems to be becoming the norm to move every 7 years or so. I've had
multiple realtors tell me that. For us, we tend to get itchy around the 5
year mark and we're gone either that year or the next. The country is too
big to stay in one place for long.

Now that we're getting older, we're starting to think about summer homes.
We like Frankenmuth or Tawas City in Michigan, the Black Hills of South
Dakota, the area just west of Boston near Waltham, and the area around
Kennebunkport, Maine. Newport, RI, was really nice, but I think it caters
to a better class of people than we are.


If you like to move, good for you. I'm in my third house since I got
married 55 years ago. Last house was 37 years.

My next door neighbor is 78. Our houses are 2 1/2 years old and he just
sold to move from FL to TN. Something like 29 times for his including
in the service.

His next house needs a new roof and updated kitchen so he is planning
now for the move in a few weeks. One reason I bought here was I should
need nothing more than maybe a light bulb for the rest of my life.

My daughter is moving over the weekend. Her 25th address, 7th in FL
alone.

Thanks, Ed. Your story has both extremes well covered.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 17:25:29 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

It seems to be becoming the norm to move every 7 years or so. I've had
multiple realtors tell me that. For us, we tend to get itchy around the 5
year mark and we're gone either that year or the next. The country is too
big to stay in one place for long.

Florida tax laws punish you for that. My real estate tax hikes are
capped at 3% a year as long as I live here based on an old appraisal.
If I move I start being taxed at 80% of the price of the house I buy.
You also lose a year of homestead exemption. Fortunately I like it
here. I am not sure where I would want to move too. If I hit the lotto
I might buy a summer house up by Bowman tho. I would just be out of
there before the first snow. My kids are in Northern Michigan and that
area doesn't grab me at all unless I was right on a fairly good sized
but not "great" lake and a lot of acreage.
I think I would be just as happy north of Tampa doing that. My buddy
lives there. (Odessa)
That is Keystone Lake 424 acres. Big enough to boat on.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Milts%20yard.jpg