On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 20:43:02 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Taking a clue from this apartment complex, it is time to put some
standards for people posting here. They must have a nice looking car.

https://tinyurl.com/3afv2p4t

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesnt
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while theres certainly something to be said about
towing a car thats been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesnt allow
them the time to get a repair€”especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them.* They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.


That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all.* Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

Ed Pawlowski writes:
On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them.* They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.

Why bring up section 8? The vast majority of apartment dwellers
are not section 8, and are not wealthy.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 09:32:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them.Â* They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.


That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all.Â* Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

The biggest city in Lee County Florida (Cape Coral) banned pickups or
any kind of truck. I think they are backing off of that a little but
it is still pretty restrictive.They also have had other silly laws. I
don't keep track but I know in the 80s you couldn't leave your shoes
on the front porch.
There are plenty of HOAs that ban parking anything in your driveway.
It has to be in the garage and the door has to be closed.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 09:32:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.


That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the
buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

The biggest city in Lee County Florida (Cape Coral) banned pickups or
any kind of truck. I think they are backing off of that a little but
it is still pretty restrictive.They also have had other silly laws. I
don't keep track but I know in the 80s you couldn't leave your shoes
on the front porch.

There are plenty of HOAs that ban parking anything in your driveway.
It has to be in the garage and the door has to be closed.

Fark, why do you lot put up with **** like that ?

On 3/22/2021 11:31 AM, wrote:


But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

The biggest city in Lee County Florida (Cape Coral) banned pickups or
any kind of truck. I think they are backing off of that a little but
it is still pretty restrictive.They also have had other silly laws. I
don't keep track but I know in the 80s you couldn't leave your shoes
on the front porch.
There are plenty of HOAs that ban parking anything in your driveway.
It has to be in the garage and the door has to be closed.


That may have worked in 1958 but today, there are many pickups used for
daily drivers. They are 20% of new vehicle sales.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:31:30 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 09:32:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them.* They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.


That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all.* Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

But the same rules apply from HOAs. One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

My HOA had a clause from the start, I think, against parking commercial
vehicles. Not against trucks afaic, but one guy had a panel truck (What
do they call them now????) with the business name on the side, and
that's what bothered people.

They argued about this at the HOA meeting for 10 minutes before I solved
it for them.

Get a blank sheet of magnetic vinyl and put it over the writing on the
door when he got home.

He was one of the few renters too, but why should we make his life
difficult.

Aut what do they think? That people who do physical work for a living
don't live here. How does it affect them if he drives a car with a name
on the side or a truck to work?

The biggest city in Lee County Florida (Cape Coral) banned pickups or
any kind of truck. I think they are backing off of that a little but
it is still pretty restrictive.They also have had other silly laws. I
don't keep track but I know in the 80s you couldn't leave your shoes
on the front porch.
There are plenty of HOAs that ban parking anything in your driveway.
It has to be in the garage and the door has to be closed.

I know of one n'hood, and it's probably not uncommon, where the garage
door cannot face the street. That's probably a good idea, because you
only have to do it once, when you build the house. And it does't take
much extra space to put one 90^ turn in the driveway.

On 3/22/21 9:32 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/22/2021 6:31 AM, kelown wrote:

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in
front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them.* They can always move.

True, if this is section 8 housing you won't get primo cars.


That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all.* Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

But the same rules apply from HOAs.* One near me wants to ban pickup
trucks.

Some years ago, I was on an out-of-town nine month high level consulting
assignment and the client rented me an apartment in an upscale complex
rather than pay for a hotel for all that time.

I had just bought me a top of the line fully tricked out 4WD Ford F-150
that cost more than most entry to mid-level luxury cars. The complex
management told me I couldn't park it in front of my unit.

My client- who rented several units in the complex- called them and told
them to back off. They did.

--
Why is it that the people who want more government control over your
life are the same ones who want you to be disarmed?

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:31:18 -0000, kelown wrote:


The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex.
If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

That's quite an elitist take on apartment affordability.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

This issue has nothing to do with buying a house.

I have a problem with your use of the word issue.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.

No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.

But what about when they change after you buy ?

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small
one such as many cars have where some one parked
next to them opens a door and puts a small dent in it ?

Mine has quite a dent in the driver's door which appears
to have been made by the corner of the tray of what we
call a ute. The body of my car is so well done that the
metal isnt rusting, so no point in fixing the dent given
that I don't know who did it because the arsehole who
did it didn't bother to tell me he had done it.
https://www.ozutetrays.com.au/assets...20200714030550

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton

" wrote in message
...
On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front
of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t
allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.

But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

**** that.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Me neither.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 05:01:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


**** that.

NOTHING and NOBODY here could ever be as ****ed as you are, senile pest!

--
Marland addressing senile Rodent's tall stories:
"Do you really think people believe your stories you come up with to boost
your self esteem."
Message-ID:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when

The eligible voters are all the members but it doesn't require a
unanimous vote. So things can still be shoved down the throat of those
who disagree. The % vote here might vary depending on the sort of
issue.

However here we have the opposite problem, and that is we have to change
the covenants or by-laws to raise the dues and we can can never get
enough votes, so as prices go up we can't afford to pay them. For
lawn-mowing and gardening of the common areas, although there isn't much
of that, if they are to come frequently it costs a bunch of money.

And snow-plowing varies a lot from year to year, but when it snows it
costs a bunch of money.

And recently we had to replace 3 of the 4 fire hydrants, because the
fire department checks them periodically and they seem to only last 30
or 40 years, and the FD insists they be replaced, and that was 10,000 or
something for 100 families.

And we've had a few water main leaks, each costing several thousand,
possibly because the original builder used the wrong pipe, not the
somewhat flexible metal pipe under the roads and when a really truck
comes by, it can break the pipe. Although the last leak was under a
sidewalk. First time we've had a leak under a sidewalk.
The plumber digs but we have to hire a cement guy to replace the
sidewalk.

And the biggest expense is repaving the road, I think the last time it
cost $150,000, and prices have probably gone up.

And repaving once and repairing once, each time raised the surface of
the parking lot an inch, including in front of the main storm drain, at
the bottom of the hill, two spots from where I park. The opening was 4
inches high and losing 2 inches meant it couldn't handle all the water
from the top of the hill to the north and west. And it would pool and
actually entered a neighbor's car. She claimed it ruined her car. I
find that hard to believe. The same day it came to one inch of my
doorway and while I don't think it would have ruined the car, it would
have made a lot of work and some expense to clean it.
That problem is solved but it wasn't easy.

We also pay electricity for the street lights but that's not much money,
and we pay a management company to handle paperwork, and maybe we have
some other expenses.

So we have all these expenses and we can't raise the dues. A little
bit twice in 38 years.


you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:12:53 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when

The eligible voters are all the members but it doesn't require a
unanimous vote. So things can still be shoved down the throat of those
who disagree. The % vote here might vary depending on the sort of
issue.

However here we have the opposite problem, and that is we have to change
the covenants or by-laws to raise the dues and we can can never get
enough votes, so as prices go up we can't afford to pay them. For
lawn-mowing and gardening of the common areas, although there isn't much
of that, if they are to come frequently it costs a bunch of money.

And snow-plowing varies a lot from year to year, but when it snows it
costs a bunch of money.

And recently we had to replace 3 of the 4 fire hydrants, because the
fire department checks them periodically and they seem to only last 30
or 40 years, and the FD insists they be replaced, and that was 10,000 or
something for 100 families.

And we've had a few water main leaks, each costing several thousand,
possibly because the original builder used the wrong pipe, not the
somewhat flexible metal pipe under the roads and when a really truck
comes by, it can break the pipe. Although the last leak was under a
sidewalk. First time we've had a leak under a sidewalk.
The plumber digs but we have to hire a cement guy to replace the
sidewalk.

And the biggest expense is repaving the road, I think the last time it
cost $150,000, and prices have probably gone up.

And repaving once and repairing once, each time raised the surface of
the parking lot an inch, including in front of the main storm drain, at
the bottom of the hill, two spots from where I park. The opening was 4
inches high and losing 2 inches meant it couldn't handle all the water
from the top of the hill to the north and west. And it would pool and
actually entered a neighbor's car. She claimed it ruined her car. I
find that hard to believe. The same day it came to one inch of my
doorway and while I don't think it would have ruined the car, it would
have made a lot of work and some expense to clean it.
That problem is solved but it wasn't easy.

We also pay electricity for the street lights but that's not much money,
and we pay a management company to handle paperwork, and maybe we have
some other expenses.

So we have all these expenses and we can't raise the dues. A little
bit twice in 38 years.

I'll bet those who refuse to allow the fees to go up are the ones
bitching the most about the "one-time levies" and the lack of
maintenance.

you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:12:53 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when

The eligible voters are all the members but it doesn't require a
unanimous vote. So things can still be shoved down the throat of those
who disagree. The % vote here might vary depending on the sort of
issue.

However here we have the opposite problem, and that is we have to change
the covenants or by-laws to raise the dues and we can can never get
enough votes, so as prices go up we can't afford to pay them. For
lawn-mowing and gardening of the common areas, although there isn't much
of that, if they are to come frequently it costs a bunch of money.

And snow-plowing varies a lot from year to year, but when it snows it
costs a bunch of money.

And recently we had to replace 3 of the 4 fire hydrants, because the
fire department checks them periodically and they seem to only last 30
or 40 years, and the FD insists they be replaced, and that was 10,000 or
something for 100 families.

And we've had a few water main leaks, each costing several thousand,
possibly because the original builder used the wrong pipe, not the
somewhat flexible metal pipe under the roads and when a really truck
comes by, it can break the pipe. Although the last leak was under a
sidewalk. First time we've had a leak under a sidewalk.
The plumber digs but we have to hire a cement guy to replace the
sidewalk.

And the biggest expense is repaving the road, I think the last time it
cost $150,000, and prices have probably gone up.

And repaving once and repairing once, each time raised the surface of
the parking lot an inch, including in front of the main storm drain, at
the bottom of the hill, two spots from where I park. The opening was 4
inches high and losing 2 inches meant it couldn't handle all the water
from the top of the hill to the north and west. And it would pool and
actually entered a neighbor's car. She claimed it ruined her car. I
find that hard to believe. The same day it came to one inch of my
doorway and while I don't think it would have ruined the car, it would
have made a lot of work and some expense to clean it.
That problem is solved but it wasn't easy.

We also pay electricity for the street lights but that's not much money,
and we pay a management company to handle paperwork, and maybe we have
some other expenses.

So we have all these expenses and we can't raise the dues. A little
bit twice in 38 years.


You just need to let the baby touch the stove sometimes.
Stop providing services they won't pay for. They will come around
pretty fast.
We seem to have a pretty good group here. Our dues are about twice
what we actually spend most years on general maintenance so we have a
nice reserve. We don't actually provide that much tho. Our streets are
public roads, one of the 3 only communities in the "village" where
that is true and they are all right here in this cluster. We mow the
park and the area around the boat ramp. We maintain that ramp and 3
docks. Your yard is your business. We used to mow vacants if the owner
paid his dues but we stopped that too. There are not many vacants here
anyway now.
We are voluntary pay and we still get 85-90%.
One thing that helps is you can't get a ramp key without paying.
We have no more power than what we can negotiate as neighbors and that
is fine with us.

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 5:13:10 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT),
" wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
The eligible voters are all the members but it doesn't require a
unanimous vote. So things can still be shoved down the throat of those
who disagree. The % vote here might vary depending on the sort of
issue.

However here we have the opposite problem, and that is we have to change
the covenants or by-laws to raise the dues and we can can never get
enough votes, so as prices go up we can't afford to pay them. For
lawn-mowing and gardening of the common areas, although there isn't much
of that, if they are to come frequently it costs a bunch of money.

And snow-plowing varies a lot from year to year, but when it snows it
costs a bunch of money.

And recently we had to replace 3 of the 4 fire hydrants, because the
fire department checks them periodically and they seem to only last 30
or 40 years, and the FD insists they be replaced, and that was 10,000 or
something for 100 families.

And we've had a few water main leaks, each costing several thousand,
possibly because the original builder used the wrong pipe, not the
somewhat flexible metal pipe under the roads and when a really truck
comes by, it can break the pipe. Although the last leak was under a
sidewalk. First time we've had a leak under a sidewalk.
The plumber digs but we have to hire a cement guy to replace the
sidewalk.

And the biggest expense is repaving the road, I think the last time it
cost $150,000, and prices have probably gone up.

And repaving once and repairing once, each time raised the surface of
the parking lot an inch, including in front of the main storm drain, at
the bottom of the hill, two spots from where I park. The opening was 4
inches high and losing 2 inches meant it couldn't handle all the water
from the top of the hill to the north and west. And it would pool and
actually entered a neighbor's car. She claimed it ruined her car. I
find that hard to believe. The same day it came to one inch of my
doorway and while I don't think it would have ruined the car, it would
have made a lot of work and some expense to clean it.
That problem is solved but it wasn't easy.

We also pay electricity for the street lights but that's not much money,
and we pay a management company to handle paperwork, and maybe we have
some other expenses.

So we have all these expenses and we can't raise the dues. A little
bit twice in 38 years.

All that stuff is paid for by tax dollars where I live. Cheapskates don't
get to ruin it for everybody else.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), posted for all
of us to digest...


On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton

But this is an apartment complex.

--
Tekkie

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:29:07 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.

If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules
they should not be in them. They can always move.
No reason why they should have to due to stupid rules like that.
For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate
agent to check to see if there are any rules or covents for the
property other than what the county has over all. Then put it
in writing in the buying contract.
But what about when they change after you buy ?

As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton

It is state by state and maybe even down to the local level somewhere
but in Florida they can change the bylaws and possibly the covenants
at the annual meeting and it does not have to be a unanimous vote.
Other rules can be made and changed by the board in a simple up down
vote. A lot depends on how the original documents were written. There
are also differences between condos, Co-ops and HOAs. They have entire
law firms here who do nothing but deal with the 3 statutes that define
these operations. My wife is a Licensed CAM and she ran one of those
nut houses (799 doors) for over a decade. (Master HOA, a few Single
family HOAs and about 12 condos) She still hates people.

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 7:25:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


As I understand it, those covenants are changed by a vote of all
the homeowners who are subject to those covenants. I bet when
you buy in those neighborhoods, you agree to abide by the covenant
and any changes that are made according to some rules set out in
the agreement.

My knowledge is limited, since I'd never buy such a house.

Cindy Hamilton
It is state by state and maybe even down to the local level somewhere
but in Florida they can change the bylaws and possibly the covenants
at the annual meeting and it does not have to be a unanimous vote.

Both you and micky thought I indicated a unanimous vote. "All" indicated
that all homeowners in the covenant can participate in voting, implying
not just the governing body.

Cindy Hamilton

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.

wrote in message
news
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front
of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t
allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.

We make ours do the roads and parks etc to county
standard, including full roundabouts etc now so there
is no need for any HOA to look after either of them.

Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:50:03 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

Our biggest incentive to pay is the ramp. Without the boat ramp our
participation might be a dozen.
One of the reasons I bought here was the public roads. I know people
on private roads and how much they have to pay, just to keep them
passable.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 08:50:03 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 3/22/2021 9:01 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:19:52 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 22 Mar 2021 06:14:57 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

The Montana Valley Apartments manager noted that the complex doesn?t
allow cars with rust, dents, flat tires, or bad paint to sit in front of
its complex. And while there?s certainly something to be said about
towing a car that?s been immobile for several weeks, tenants here are
arguing that the standards are entirely unfair because it doesn?t allow
them the time to get a repair?especially for people who are already
living paycheck to paycheck.

It is just the HOA mentality run amok.



If the people don't like the Apartment or HOA rules they should not be
in them. They can always move.

It's easy to move, isn't it? And doesn't cost any money.

For the two houses I have bought I always ask the real estate agent to
check to see if there are any rules or covents for the property other
than what the county has over all. Then put it in writing in the buying
contract.

I wonder what they call a 'dent'? Could it be a very small one such as
many cars have where some one parked next to them opens a door and puts
a small dent in it ?

Who knows? And if I understood the story, they only gave them a couple
days to fix their cars!

I think a court would throw out the whole rule, but normally for an
injunction you need a lawyer. I did it once myself and it took a lotttt
of time, and once it got started, I didn't know what to do for the next
step. I still forced new HOA elections, but it was not enough.

I believe the law in Maryland requires every group of houses, or condo
or co-op apartment built since 1970 or 80 to have an HOA. There was a
very good reason for the law but if one wants to avoid that he'd have to
living in a place more than 50 years old, or a home built individually.
Not too many of those around, and I think they are all very expensive.

I doubt the law requires an HOA but if you want the county to own your
roads the developer needs to cede over whatever property is required
for the right of way and build the roads up to the county standard
before they will take them. The only reasonable way to have private
roads is to have a legal entity such as an HOA to maintain them.
I bet the developers choose the HOA route. Most HOA property could
never come close to the county rules about rights of way and setbacks
and still be able to build as many houses as they want to build.
Condos and Co-ops are a different thing. Again, it is usually the
developer who wants it to be a condo. More money in it for them.
Otherwise they are just building rental apartments. You might have a
tougher time getting zoning for that.


I think that is correct. When we moved here there was an HOA set up to
maintain roads in our 20 home development. Roads did not meet state
standards with grade, no curbs or sidewalks or storm drains.

When I was president of the HOA I shepherded the take over of the roads
by the state by a quirk in the law. I figure I have saved residents
over $300 a year each. A friend is vp of his HOA and tells me of all
the problems they have to contend with which includes taking residents
to court for not paying fees.

Two moves back, I was in a neighborhood where the guy across the street
hadn't paid his HOA dues in nearly 15 years. Rather than take him to court,
the HOA just placed a lien on his home, updating it every year to reflect
the new amount, so that when he sells the home they get their money. With
no plans to sell, he figured the joke was on them.