On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:16:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


In real life I don't need a better example of stupid financial
decisions than Griddy. It happened.
Bob had the right answer.
If you are going to play this game, you better be watching the market
24/7 instead of just being happy your lights are on without asking how
much that costs. These people could have cut their losses by flipping
the main breaker right away. That $10 grand or whatever would have
bought a real nice whole house generator and had plenty left over.


Sure, I expected that would be your answer. Expecting regulators to prevent
this kind of absurd ripoff is too much to ask for. And that is exactly what it was.
Or are you going to try to tell us that some power suppliers had legitimate
costs that suddenly went up 100X in a day? But at least it's consistent with
your '**** the Kurds". This time it's **** all the consumers in TX, it's their
fault and this kind of abuse of capitalism is OK. Are you living in 1900?
Even the barrons of the day back then probably didn't pull this crap.


These are Texans, they don't think like easterners and they don't want
your opinion.
My bet is there will be some legal action against Griddy, bills will
be cut and there will not be any regulation.
It doesn't affect any of us. They chose to be independent. I am going
to let them.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 12:48:23 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article , says...

If that is the agreement you have with your provider to normally get
lower rates, you'd better have a really good generator that
automatically takes over when the spot market goes above some fixed level.



How does a home owner in TX know when the price goes up or down ?

The large company I worked for would get a telephone call years ago
telling them that at a certain time the natural gas was going to another
rate and to get on the fuel oil.

Does TX do this for each house, or does the rate just go up and the home
owner had no idea before the payment statement is sent in the mail ?

Playing the power pricing game is much differnet than the stock market
game. Most have to have the electricity no matter the cost, but you set
your own limit as to how much you want to risk in the stock market, or
not even play it at all.

It is 2021, I bet the spot price of electricity is on the Griddy web
site in real time for their customers. (or a link) These folks just
didn't bother to look.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 10:46:02 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 10:08:28 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/2/2021 9:24 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 12:44:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 23:07:18 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On the other hand, those who got variable rates in 1992 when they
were starting at 9.25%, made out quite well as they quickly dropped
to 7 and later 5%.



When the rates drop one can usually negociate for the lower rates even
on fixed rates, or go to another bank (lender).
You'd need to buy your way out of the mortgage - the penalty
is usually the interest they are losing plus a fee for the
trouble.
John T.

Is that how it works in Canada? Not here in the US. I've never seen a mortgage
with a pre-payment penalty at all and I would bet that it's probably illegal in many
states. I've refinanced many times with no penalty. The only costs are whatever
it takes to get the new mortgage, eg application fee, appraisal fee, misc fee, etc.

I know of one but it is a commercial mortgage in the $1 million range.

I just checked. Since the 80s prepayment penalties have been in illegal in NJ,
on fixed rate mortgages, but they are OK on ARM mortgages.

Do you also have the law that any extra payments go against the
principal and not just get credited as an early payment.

On 3/1/2021 5:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:07:58 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:



A few years ago Texas was talking about leaving the US. Maybe we should
have let them.

A few years ago there was a petition for Texas to succeed from the
United States.

At the same time there was a petition to kick Texas out of the United
States.

They wanted their own power grid to stay away from the
Federal regulations.

Now I don't really understand all the ins and outs of this, but seems
they can not keep the lights on with out a big money problem with a week
of ice.

How can there be an electric charge of one weeks of power that exceeds
abot 3 times what it should be for a year ?

I don't know who will be left holding the bag for this situation.


Bloomberg) -- The largest power generation and transmission cooperative
in Texas filed for bankruptcy in the wake of power outages that caused
an energy crisis during the winter freeze last month.

Brazos Electric Power Cooperative filed for Chapter 11 in Texas after
racking up an estimated $2.1 billion in charges over seven days of the
freeze. Last year, it cost cooperative members $774 million for power
for all of 2020.

Brazos supplies power to its member coops, who sell to customers.

Brazos refused to pass on exorbitant charges to their member coops and
is using bankruptcy to avoid it.

An emplyee in a 2019 review stated
"Will pay better than any other job in the area. If you can get a job
here the likely hood that you will be laid off is very low. You will
get many hours, especially during outages."

etc
Is that for Brazos?
For a generating plant in Texas?
(Interesting comments.)

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 2:02:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:16:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


In real life I don't need a better example of stupid financial
decisions than Griddy. It happened.
Bob had the right answer.
If you are going to play this game, you better be watching the market
24/7 instead of just being happy your lights are on without asking how
much that costs. These people could have cut their losses by flipping
the main breaker right away. That $10 grand or whatever would have
bought a real nice whole house generator and had plenty left over.


Sure, I expected that would be your answer. Expecting regulators to prevent
this kind of absurd ripoff is too much to ask for. And that is exactly what it was.
Or are you going to try to tell us that some power suppliers had legitimate
costs that suddenly went up 100X in a day? But at least it's consistent with
your '**** the Kurds". This time it's **** all the consumers in TX, it's their
fault and this kind of abuse of capitalism is OK. Are you living in 1900?
Even the barrons of the day back then probably didn't pull this crap.

These are Texans, they don't think like easterners and they don't want
your opinion.

I should put that one in your record book. Texans don't want my opinion
but you, living in FL, speak for them. Got it.



My bet is there will be some legal action against Griddy, bills will
be cut and there will not be any regulation.
It doesn't affect any of us. They chose to be independent. I am going
to let them.


My bet is those bills will be brought down to reality and there will be new
regulation going forward. But then it is GOP Texas, so maybe they are that
uncaring and stupid. IDK. I see that bonehead governor just took off ALL
Covid restrictions on all businesses, no more mask requirements, etc.
They are running at 7K cases a day, the more contagious variants are
growing, the UK one will be dominant in a few weeks. So let's see how
many more people we can kill needlessly before the vaccines kick in.
Go Covid, go! It's just a mask. So happy I left the GOP two years ago,
this is such total stupidity, all brought to you by Trump. He's the one that
mocked masks, discouraged people from wearing them, held maskless
death rallies. Monkey see, monkey do.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 07:25:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 2:02:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:16:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


In real life I don't need a better example of stupid financial
decisions than Griddy. It happened.
Bob had the right answer.
If you are going to play this game, you better be watching the market
24/7 instead of just being happy your lights are on without asking how
much that costs. These people could have cut their losses by flipping
the main breaker right away. That $10 grand or whatever would have
bought a real nice whole house generator and had plenty left over.


Sure, I expected that would be your answer. Expecting regulators to prevent
this kind of absurd ripoff is too much to ask for. And that is exactly what it was.
Or are you going to try to tell us that some power suppliers had legitimate
costs that suddenly went up 100X in a day? But at least it's consistent with
your '**** the Kurds". This time it's **** all the consumers in TX, it's their
fault and this kind of abuse of capitalism is OK. Are you living in 1900?
Even the barrons of the day back then probably didn't pull this crap.

These are Texans, they don't think like easterners and they don't want
your opinion.

I should put that one in your record book. Texans don't want my opinion
but you, living in FL, speak for them. Got it.

Oh, you saw that too, huh? Classic Fretwell. :-)


My bet is there will be some legal action against Griddy, bills will
be cut and there will not be any regulation.
It doesn't affect any of us. They chose to be independent. I am going
to let them.


My bet is those bills will be brought down to reality and there will be new
regulation going forward. But then it is GOP Texas, so maybe they are that
uncaring and stupid. IDK. I see that bonehead governor just took off ALL
Covid restrictions on all businesses, no more mask requirements, etc.
They are running at 7K cases a day, the more contagious variants are
growing, the UK one will be dominant in a few weeks. So let's see how
many more people we can kill needlessly before the vaccines kick in.
Go Covid, go! It's just a mask. So happy I left the GOP two years ago,
this is such total stupidity, all brought to you by Trump. He's the one that
mocked masks, discouraged people from wearing them, held maskless
death rallies. Monkey see, monkey do.

Within moments of Texas removing all mask requirements, Mississippi's
Governor did the same.

For the time being, I'll continue to wear a mask. My Covid shot is
scheduled for March 16, with a second shot around mid-April or so.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 07:25:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 2:02:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:16:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


In real life I don't need a better example of stupid financial
decisions than Griddy. It happened.
Bob had the right answer.
If you are going to play this game, you better be watching the market
24/7 instead of just being happy your lights are on without asking how
much that costs. These people could have cut their losses by flipping
the main breaker right away. That $10 grand or whatever would have
bought a real nice whole house generator and had plenty left over.


Sure, I expected that would be your answer. Expecting regulators to prevent
this kind of absurd ripoff is too much to ask for. And that is exactly what it was.
Or are you going to try to tell us that some power suppliers had legitimate
costs that suddenly went up 100X in a day? But at least it's consistent with
your '**** the Kurds". This time it's **** all the consumers in TX, it's their
fault and this kind of abuse of capitalism is OK. Are you living in 1900?
Even the barrons of the day back then probably didn't pull this crap.

These are Texans, they don't think like easterners and they don't want
your opinion.

I should put that one in your record book. Texans don't want my opinion
but you, living in FL, speak for them. Got it.

I told you my father's side of the family are Texans and Okies. I do
know a little about how they think.


My bet is there will be some legal action against Griddy, bills will
be cut and there will not be any regulation.
It doesn't affect any of us. They chose to be independent. I am going
to let them.


My bet is those bills will be brought down to reality and there will be new
regulation going forward. But then it is GOP Texas, so maybe they are that
uncaring and stupid. IDK.

My net is not much changes.
Again, why is this any of your business? As we say here. "We don't
give a damn how you used to do things up north".

I see that bonehead governor just took off ALL
Covid restrictions on all businesses, no more mask requirements, etc.
They are running at 7K cases a day, the more contagious variants are
growing, the UK one will be dominant in a few weeks. So let's see how
many more people we can kill needlessly before the vaccines kick in.
Go Covid, go! It's just a mask. So happy I left the GOP two years ago,
this is such total stupidity, all brought to you by Trump. He's the one that
mocked masks, discouraged people from wearing them, held maskless
death rallies. Monkey see, monkey do.

If the lockdowns are so effective, why is California doing worse than
Florida that has been pretty much open at 100% since the fall?
Most people are wearing masks or something but not because the
government says they have to.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 09:03:37 -0600, bud-- wrote:

On 3/1/2021 5:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:07:58 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:



A few years ago Texas was talking about leaving the US. Maybe we should
have let them.

A few years ago there was a petition for Texas to succeed from the
United States.

At the same time there was a petition to kick Texas out of the United
States.

They wanted their own power grid to stay away from the
Federal regulations.

Now I don't really understand all the ins and outs of this, but seems
they can not keep the lights on with out a big money problem with a week
of ice.

How can there be an electric charge of one weeks of power that exceeds
abot 3 times what it should be for a year ?

I don't know who will be left holding the bag for this situation.


Bloomberg) -- The largest power generation and transmission cooperative
in Texas filed for bankruptcy in the wake of power outages that caused
an energy crisis during the winter freeze last month.

Brazos Electric Power Cooperative filed for Chapter 11 in Texas after
racking up an estimated $2.1 billion in charges over seven days of the
freeze. Last year, it cost cooperative members $774 million for power
for all of 2020.

Brazos supplies power to its member coops, who sell to customers.

Brazos refused to pass on exorbitant charges to their member coops and
is using bankruptcy to avoid it.

An emplyee in a 2019 review stated
"Will pay better than any other job in the area. If you can get a job
here the likely hood that you will be laid off is very low. You will
get many hours, especially during outages."

etc
Is that for Brazos?
For a generating plant in Texas?
(Interesting comments.)
Yes - for brazos generating plant in Texas

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 21:26:30 -0800, Bob F posted for all of us to digest...


On 3/1/2021 8:12 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/1/2021 6:40 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:52:51 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

How can there be an electric charge of one weeks of power that exceeds
abot 3 times what it should be for a year ?

Deregulation.

Simply put, as the supply of electricity approached zero, the price
of electricity
approached infinity.

Cindy Hamilton



Looks like that should somehow come under the price gouging laws.* Where
if due to some disaster prices can not rise much above the normal price
range.

Bear in mind this was only one company offering a very speculative
pricing scheme tied to the wholesale price of power with no caps on
the top or bottom number. Nobody complained when they were getting
electricity for half price or less.
There were plenty of normal options for these people.
If you really want to play this game, give them an account number with
limited funds in it and fight with them before you pay, not after the
fact. The guy who gave them access to his life savings was a moron.


While I'd normally agree with you, this is beyond all ethical and moral
business practice.*** If a normal bill is say $100 and it jumped to
$1000 it would be bad, but to jump to $10,000?

If I bought Game Stop or Bitcoin and it went to $0. I'd agree but this
is far beyond what anyone could ever guess.* It is not like buying a
risky stock or a poker game.

If that is the agreement you have with your provider to normally get
lower rates, you'd better have a really good generator that
automatically takes over when the spot market goes above some fixed level.

Ha good one. It can be sold as a "Smart Generator" maybe uses the WiFi to read
the rates and activate.

People didn't read and understand what they were getting into. I'm not like
that, I don't even buy green bananas

--
Tekkie