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Old February 23rd 21, 08:26 PM posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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Default How does a typical heating system controls work?


On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:05:37 -0800 (PST), Alexandre Verri posted for all of us
to digest...


I bought a house in Ireland two years ago and I still have some doubts about how the heating system controls should work.

My house has one thermostat and also a programmable mechanical timer. This is what I refer here as the control system. The actual behaviour of the control system is:

Regardless of the programmed timer, if the room temperature is less than the temperature set on the thermostat, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

If the room's temperature is bigger than the temperature set on thermostat and the timer fires, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

It seems a strange behaviour, this is not what I would have designed. I would prefer the following:

If the room's temperature is less than the thermostat and the timer fires, the pump and boiler should start working.

Please share your thoughts on this, how is your control system?


I am taking a SWAG he I think you want to set the timer and it's temperature
to when people are actually in the house and awake.

The other setting is what I would call a 'sleep mode'. Some people like the
temperature cooler when they are asleep or the house would be vacant for a
significant time.

You probably have what is called a programmable thermostat. I am in America and
not familiar with Ireland. Although I would like to travel there and have
ancestors there. I have reposted this to the newsgroup group called
alt.home.repair in the hope that you will receive more thoughts. Please
subscribe and join us there.

--
Tekkie

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Old February 23rd 21, 10:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default How does a typical heating system controls work?

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 2:26:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:05:37 -0800 (PST), Alexandre Verri posted for all of us
to digest...


I bought a house in Ireland two years ago and I still have some doubts about how the heating system controls should work.

My house has one thermostat and also a programmable mechanical timer. This is what I refer here as the control system. The actual behaviour of the control system is:

Regardless of the programmed timer, if the room temperature is less than the temperature set on the thermostat, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

If the room's temperature is bigger than the temperature set on thermostat and the timer fires, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

It seems a strange behaviour, this is not what I would have designed. I would prefer the following:

If the room's temperature is less than the thermostat and the timer fires, the pump and boiler should start working.

Please share your thoughts on this, how is your control system?


I am taking a SWAG he I think you want to set the timer and it's temperature
to when people are actually in the house and awake.

The other setting is what I would call a 'sleep mode'. Some people like the
temperature cooler when they are asleep or the house would be vacant for a
significant time.

You probably have what is called a programmable thermostat. I am in America and
not familiar with Ireland. Although I would like to travel there and have
ancestors there. I have reposted this to the newsgroup group called
alt.home.repair in the hope that you will receive more thoughts. Please
subscribe and join us there.

--
Tekkie


Yes, typically the timer part is to switch between temperatures that are set
for different times of the day. The early mechanical ones allowed for a day
setting and then a setback period for nighttime. Modern ones, eg Honeywell
Vision Pro, are digital and you can set multiple periods for each day and
different setting for each day of the week. His timer function is almost
certainly for setting different temps for different time periods. He should
google for the instructions for the thermostat if he doesn't have it or if
it doesn't offer what he needs, just get a new one. It could be some of
the best $100 spent.

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Old February 24th 21, 09:15 AM posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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Default How does a typical heating system controls work?

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:26:28 -0500, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:05:37 -0800 (PST), Alexandre Verri posted for all of us
to digest...


I bought a house in Ireland two years ago and I still have some doubts about how the heating system controls should work.

My house has one thermostat and also a programmable mechanical timer. This is what I refer here as the control system. The actual behaviour of the control system is:

Regardless of the programmed timer, if the room temperature is less than the temperature set on the thermostat, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

If the room's temperature is bigger than the temperature set on thermostat and the timer fires, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

It seems a strange behaviour, this is not what I would have designed. I would prefer the following:

If the room's temperature is less than the thermostat and the timer fires, the pump and boiler should start working.


It's conceivable that they put the parts together wrong Conceivable,
but very unlikely. It coudl be that the timer should control the pump
and boiler like you want, though I'm not sure what would happen when
tthe timer is ... off, is that the other setting? Would the house get
really cold if the timer were off and that stopped the boiler from
working. Or does the timer somehow change the temp setting like one of
the ansers though could be the case.

Be absolutely sure you have a totally understandable drawing of how it
is connected now so you can put it back that way when you realize you've
made it worse. But maybe you'll make it better.

Don't depend on your memory. It's amazing how easy these things are to
forget in only a few minutes.

Take photographs and make functional drawings and schematic drawings and
then stare at the schematic until you understand how it is set up, what
the timer is supposed to do (and how it's supposed to do it) (It seems
pretty clear what the other parts, the thermostat, pump, and boiler are
supposed to do.) And when you know what the timer does and what it's
role is supposed to be, then you'll know if you can rearrange things or
not

What about other houses on the street? Or anywhere in town? Do they
have the same setup? This is a good way to meet your neighbors. If uou
ask to see his furnace, he might turn out to a pro or a long-time owner
who can tell you what's wrong.


I had a room air conditioner and when the thermostat said was cool
enough it stopped the compressor, but the fan ran constantly. If it
cooled off 30 minutes after I went to bed, the compressor would stop but
the fan would run all night. I hated that. I hated the noise. All the
connections were slide-clips and I only had to rearrange 3 of them so
that when the thermostat said it was cold enough, the fan and the
compressor stopped.

The designers don't like this because there is no fan to circulate the
air so that the thermostat knows almost immediately when the air is too
hot. But I don't care if it has to wait 30 or 60 minutes to find out.

Is it possible the timer was added by a previous owner, not by someone
skilled in heating? That would make the chance of it being wired
incorrectly a lot higher.

Please share your thoughts on this, how is your control system?


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Old February 24th 21, 05:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair,alt.hvac
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Default How does a typical heating system controls work?

micky writes:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:26:28 -0500, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:05:37 -0800 (PST), Alexandre Verri posted for all of us
to digest...


I bought a house in Ireland two years ago and I still have some doubts about how the heating system controls should work.

My house has one thermostat and also a programmable mechanical timer. This is what I refer here as the control system. The actual behaviour of the control system is:

Regardless of the programmed timer, if the room temperature is less than the temperature set on the thermostat, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

If the room's temperature is bigger than the temperature set on thermostat and the timer fires, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

It seems a strange behaviour, this is not what I would have designed. I would prefer the following:

If the room's temperature is less than the thermostat and the timer fires, the pump and boiler should start working.


It's conceivable that they put the parts together wrong Conceivable,


It's conceivable and quite likely that neither of you have any
knowledge of Irish heating systems; and that your speculation can
actually be damaging.

Recommendation is that the OP contact a reliable Irish HVAC
company for an inspection - most of them will do it for free
or a nominal charge.

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Old February 24th 21, 09:05 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default How does a typical heating system controls work?

This is the way most of the systems where I work function.

The timer turns the heat on when you expect to need it and saves energy the rest of the time. Usually it starts warming the place up an hour or so before people arrive or will use it. Some of our smart systems have an outdoor temperature sensor and an algorithm that learns how fast this building warms up.

The thermostat overrides this and turns the heat on any time the temperature gets low enough to be hazardous - break pipes etc.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me. You might be traveling during a hard freeze and come home to a house full of damage if the timer was the only thing controlling.


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Old February 25th 21, 01:48 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default How does a typical heating system controls work?

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 11:25:35 AM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
micky writes:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:26:28 -0500, Tekkie©
wrote:


On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:05:37 -0800 (PST), Alexandre Verri posted for all of us
to digest...


I bought a house in Ireland two years ago and I still have some doubts about how the heating system controls should work.

My house has one thermostat and also a programmable mechanical timer. This is what I refer here as the control system. The actual behaviour of the control system is:

Regardless of the programmed timer, if the room temperature is less than the temperature set on the thermostat, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

If the room's temperature is bigger than the temperature set on thermostat and the timer fires, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house.

It seems a strange behaviour, this is not what I would have designed. I would prefer the following:

If the room's temperature is less than the thermostat and the timer fires, the pump and boiler should start working.


It's conceivable that they put the parts together wrong Conceivable,

It's conceivable and quite likely that neither of you have any
knowledge of Irish heating systems;


Do you? If so, since this is a DIY forum, why not help the poster and educate
others here? In heating systems the logical use for a thermostat/timer
combination is to have two or more time periods with differing temp set
points. With a boiler system that also provides domestic hot water, you
could have a timer to only enable the boiler to heat water for that during
certain time periods, eg not at night. That's how I see timers being incorporated.
So, what's so special about Ireland? And explain this:

"If the room's temperature is bigger than the temperature set on thermostat and the timer fires, the boiler and pump start working to heat the house. "

Unique physics in Ireland?



and that your speculation can
actually be damaging.

Recommendation is that the OP contact a reliable Irish HVAC
company for an inspection - most of them will do it for free
or a nominal charge.



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