On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:25:47 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 10/16/2020 5:02 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:05:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid. You could have heart disease or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years. You get infected with Covid, succumb to it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate. Covid still directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live 15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-age-group/

Highest number of deaths in the lowest number of people
.
But as usual the thread drifted
If you are 85 and have health conditions (why people go to assisted
living/nursing homes in the first place) any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you. This is the flu on steroids. Old people or really
anyone in poor health, may die if they get this.

Build a bubble around them and let r rip.

We need to build some level of immunity. That is particularly true in
young healthy people because they are least likely to be serious about
not giving it to anyone else. If they are immune, they won't be super
spreaders.

I think when I said "this bug isn't going anywhere and it is coming
after us as soon as we get out from under the bed", I am vindicated.
The bug started grabbing us again as soon as we started opening up.

I suppose we could go through another 6 months of this depression
until the vaccine is properly evaluated by the people we trust to do
that. Then you have to trick people into getting it. Half won't get a
flu shot. Distribution is not an issue if you don't let the government
do it. Just have the vaccines delivered to the big drug store
distribution centers and they can do the rest. Publix pays me to get a
flu shot so there has to be something in it for them..

We are still hoping it works tho.

If this is like the Corona Virus in the common cold, we know it can
mutate faster than we can make vaccine.
I am still waiting for a real answer about reinfection. So far it
seems to just be a collection of anecdotes.

The US case seems very well documented.

"One reason there may not be more documented cases of reinfection: It's
tough to prove, said Mark Pandori, a pathologist at the University of
Nevada, Reno School of Medicine, and senior author on the new study.

His team coordinated early in the pandemic with members of the Washoe
County Health District to look for repeat infections. They had the
benefit of sequencing equipment on campus, as well as microbiologists,
he said. And they got lucky finding someone who had been tested both
times he was infected and cleared in between.

Why his infection was worse the second time remains unclear, said
Pandori, director of the Nevada State Public Health Laboratory. "I can't
tell you if it tells us anything in particular about the biology of this
virus."

The man caught a slightly different version of the virus the second
time, according to a genetic analysis of the man's infections. It's
possible the second version was more dangerous, though there is no
evidence of that, or that it was just different enough that his body
didn't recognize it, the paper said.

Iwasaki said the study raises questions about how long immunity lasts
after a natural infection. Protection with a vaccine is likely to be
quite different, she said.

"Vaccines can be designed to induce much higher levels of antibody and
much longer-lasting immunity," she said. Just because the natural
infection doesn't give you protection doesn't mean the vaccines cannot.
It's a separate issue."

Offit, also a vaccine expert at the Perelman School of Medicine at the
University of Pennsylvania, said he expects protection from vaccines
will likely last at least a year or two.

The protection provided by infection or vaccination isn't 100% perfect
until the day it disappears completely, he said. Instead, protection
fades gradually, so someone exposed to a huge dose of the virus might
get reinfected within months, while others could be protected for years,
Offit said.

It's also possible the Nevada man has an undiagnosed problem with his
immune system. "He probably should be seen by an immunologist," Offit said.

The length of time an infection will be protective remains one of the
key open questions about the virus.

Infected twice, two months apart

The Nevada man, considered an essential worker, started feeling ill in
late March, with a sore throat, cough, headache, nausea and diarrhea.
His workplace had been hit with an outbreak early in the pandemic before
safety measures like masks could be put in place, said Heather Kerwin,
senior epidemiologist at the Washoe County Health District and a
co-author on the paper.

He went for testing on April 18 and his infection with the coronavirus
was confirmed.

On April 27, he reported his symptoms had all resolved and he felt fine,
but at the time, employees were required to test negative for the
coronavirus twice before they would be allowed back to work, Kerwin
said. So he remained isolated at home.

A month later, he began feeling poorly again. At the same time, there
was an outbreak where one of his parents, also an essential worker, was
employed, Kerwin said.

On May 31, he went to an urgent care center, reporting fever, headache,
dizziness, cough, nausea and diarrhea. On June 5, he went to see a
doctor who found his oxygen levels dangerously low and had him
hospitalized. Again, the man tested positive for the virus, even though
he still had antibodies to the virus in his bloodstream, Kerwin said.

Genetic differences between the viruses responsible for each of his
infections suggested he was infected two separate times. The virus
doesn't mutate quickly enough within a single person to explain the
differences between the two infections, the researchers found.

A parent living with the man also caught COVID-19 and was diagnosed on
June 5.

The paper reports it's possible the man was reinfected because he was
exposed to a higher dose of the virus the second time, perhaps from the
family member.

His cough lingered and he suffered from shortness of breath and mental
fog, and was on oxygen for six weeks after the second infection, Kerwin
said. He has now fully recovered.

Reinfections imply so-called herd immunity cannot be obtained just
through natural infection. If natural infection protects for only a few
months, then it will be impossible for enough people to be protected
simultaneously to reach herd immunity.

The moral of the case study, said co-author Pandori, is even people who
already have been sick with COVID-19 need to protect themselves by
wearing a mask, avoiding large gatherings, washing hands frequently and
maintaining social distance.

"You're not invulnerable to this," Pandori said. "In fact, you could get
it worse the second time."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...an/5965917002/

There was a similar case in Europe, an elderly woman who got it twice within
a month or two. Her second time was much worse and she died. Like this case,
DNA showed that there were two infections, the viruses were different.

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:07:01 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 10/16/2020 4:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid. You could have heart disease or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years. You get infected with Covid, succumb to it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate. Covid still directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live 15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.


and only a small fraction of those
are in nursing homes. Further, a key driving factor in those deaths is
that they were living in group quarters that makes disease transmission
easy.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Those "group
quarters" are nursing homes or similar facilities.

No, you're just confused again. I know nursing homes are group quarters,
that was precisely my point.





Why is it that China has only 4500 deaths? No aged population there?
No nursing homes? what's different is that they had leadership with
a plan that took Covid seriously. We have a feckless orange clown who
lies and denies.

China enforces their quarantines at the point of a gun. There is also
more than a little skepticism in the truth of their totals.
I will grant you, an autocratic regime can restrict the spread of just
about anything. Disease, liberty, truth, just about anything.

And we have an evil, ignorant clown who refuses to take the simple measures
that save lives. Like wearing masks, social distancing, massive testing
and contact tracing. Instead he holds death rallies and he and his minions,
like you, have a defeatist attitude. The country that put man on the moon
and mobilized to win WWII, can't even mobilize to do testing. China can.
They have a new hotspot in Qingdao and the plan is to test 9 mil people in
5 days. And the world has taken notice. Even China is shocked at how the
mighty US has fallen down under Trump and can't get back up. Imagine if
Truman presented with the Berlin crisis had the approach of Trump. Or
Roosevelt faced with Pearl Harbor. Or Kennedy with the Cuban Missile Crisis.
No can do, let's just give up. In the early days of Covid Trump claimed
he was now a war time president. Some president, he quickly surrendered and took to lying instead of acting.


Of course you are not talking about the governor of New Jersey and what
a great job he did.

Overall the governor here did an excellent job as evidenced by the fact that
we put Covid down and so far have kept it down. We're on the small list of
states that have low levels, so travel between them is permitted with no
quarantine. I can go to MA, no quarantining. You, Fretwell and people in
most other states can't. The problem here is we still have some knuckleheads.
The Jews for some reason are incredibly stupid, as are some college students.
Those two groups are the source of most of the new infections.

On Saturday, October 17, 2020 at 7:44:10 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 10/16/2020 8:27 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 10/16/2020 5:06 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/16/2020 4:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what
Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand
co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity
listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid.Â* You could have heart disease
or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years.Â* You get infected with Covid, succumb to
it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate.Â* Covid still
directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live
15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.


and only a small fraction of those
are in nursing homes.Â* Further, a key driving factor in those
deaths is
that they were living in group quarters that makes disease
transmission
easy.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Those "group
quarters" are nursing homes or similar facilities.

No, you're just confused again.Â* I know nursing homes are group
quarters,
that was precisely my point.





Why is it that China has only 4500 deaths?Â* No aged population there?
No nursing homes?Â*Â* what's different is that they had leadership with
a plan that took Covid seriously.Â* We have a feckless orange clown who
lies and denies.

China enforces their quarantines at the point of a gun. There is also
more than a little skepticism in the truth of their totals.
I will grant you, an autocratic regime can restrict the spread of just
about anything. Disease, liberty, truth, just about anything.

And we have an evil, ignorant clown who refuses to take the simple
measures
that save lives.Â* Like wearing masks, social distancing, massive testing
and contact tracing.Â* Instead he holds death rallies and he and his
minions,
like you, have a defeatist attitude.Â* The country that put man on the
moon
and mobilized to win WWII, can't even mobilize to do testing.Â* China
can.
They have a new hotspot in Qingdao and the plan is to test 9 mil
people in
5 days. And the world has taken notice.Â* Even China is shocked at how
the
mighty US has fallen down under Trump and can't get back up. Imagine if
Truman presented with the Berlin crisis had the approach of Trump.Â* Or
Roosevelt faced with Pearl Harbor.Â* Or Kennedy with the Cuban Missile
Crisis.
No can do, let's just give up.Â*Â* In the early days of Covid Trump
claimed
he was now a war time president.Â* Some president, he quickly
surrendered and took to lying instead of acting.


Of course you are not talking about the governor of New Jersey and
what a great job he did.

That seems apparent. Is there some reason he should be?


Trump was criticized for thinking about taking control over states where
it is up to the governor. Blame Trump is getting about states is really
the governors' faults.

That's a good one Frank! Trump has only been talking about taking control
over some cities with regard to protesters and policing, not Covid. NJ doesn't
have a situation with protesters, rioters, or Covid out of control. We're
doing fine. So, what was your point again?

Gary pretended :
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Just yesterday I heard someone claiming
the virus will be gone right after election day.

I have a neigbor that said the same thing to me a couple of
weeks ago. Idiot. While she was talking I pulled up my mask
up onto my face.

Why just so she couldn't see you laughing at her?

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:03:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:05:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid. You could have heart disease or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years. You get infected with Covid, succumb to it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate. Covid still directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live 15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-age-group/

Highest number of deaths in the lowest number of people
.
But as usual the thread drifted
If you are 85 and have health conditions (why people go to assisted
living/nursing homes in the first place) any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you. This is the flu on steroids. Old people or really
anyone in poor health, may die if they get this.

You just contradicted yourself. First saying any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you, then saying this is the flu on steroids. This isn't
just any nasty bug, it's a highly contagious one that's far deadlier than
the flu.

Hence the term. "on steroids"



Build a bubble around them and let r rip.

Sure and overload the hospitals, run out of ICU and have an epic disaster.
Even Trump isn't suggesting that. Additionally, it's a flawed strategy
because there is no evidence that people have much lasting immunity and
can get it again.



Hospitals were laying off people in the first surge and we never had
those problems in any wide scale sense. The hospital ships went
virtually unused during the New York spike and that was the worst
place in the country. The ventilator shortage was oversold too. If you
want some, my buddy in the medical supply biz has a warehouse full.


We need to build some level of immunity. That is particularly true in
young healthy people because they are least likely to be serious about
not giving it to anyone else. If they are immune, they won't be super
spreaders.

I think when I said "this bug isn't going anywhere and it is coming
after us as soon as we get out from under the bed", I am vindicated.
The bug started grabbing us again as soon as we started opening up.

It mostly succeeds in grabbing you when you are stupid and do stupid things.
Like refuse to practice social distancing, refuse to wear masks, hold
totally unnecessary large gatherings. Unfortunately one of the stupid
people doing all that, encouraging it, is the president.

In other words, it will come get you as soon as you stop hiding under
the bed, just what I said. It isn't going anywhere you are just
describing how you hide from it.
Your favorite autocratic countries just seal their borders. That is
not practical here.
For example. New York alone had 371,461 foreign visitors fly into the
local airports in July. How would you quarantine them all? There are
only 40,000 hotel rooms there. (20% have homeless people in them now)




I suppose we could go through another 6 months of this depression
until the vaccine is properly evaluated by the people we trust to do
that.

And how long do you think it would take to get this herd immunity that you're
proposing? How many more dead do we wind up with? It's hard to find more
than a small percentage of health authorities who say we should go with
your idea.

Pay me now or pay me later. The virus is not just going to go away.

Then you have to trick people into getting it.

trump is good at that.



Half won't get a
flu shot. Distribution is not an issue if you don't let the government
do it. Just have the vaccines delivered to the big drug store
distribution centers and they can do the rest. Publix pays me to get a
flu shot so there has to be something in it for them..

We are still hoping it works tho.

If this is like the Corona Virus in the common cold, we know it can
mutate faster than we can make vaccine.
I am still waiting for a real answer about reinfection. So far it
seems to just be a collection of anecdotes.

Maybe it would be a good idea to figure that out before claiming herd immunity
is the answer and to just let her rip?

Do you have a better plan? Wearing a mask isn't it.
Correctly quoting the stat 85% of the people infected said they WERE
wearing their mask and got it anyway.

If 85% of the people who died in car crashes were wearing their seat
belt it would make that argument pretty weak too.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 08:18:05 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:07:01 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 10/16/2020 4:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid. You could have heart disease or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years. You get infected with Covid, succumb to it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate. Covid still directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live 15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.


and only a small fraction of those
are in nursing homes. Further, a key driving factor in those deaths is
that they were living in group quarters that makes disease transmission
easy.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Those "group
quarters" are nursing homes or similar facilities.

No, you're just confused again. I know nursing homes are group quarters,
that was precisely my point.





Why is it that China has only 4500 deaths? No aged population there?
No nursing homes? what's different is that they had leadership with
a plan that took Covid seriously. We have a feckless orange clown who
lies and denies.

China enforces their quarantines at the point of a gun. There is also
more than a little skepticism in the truth of their totals.
I will grant you, an autocratic regime can restrict the spread of just
about anything. Disease, liberty, truth, just about anything.

And we have an evil, ignorant clown who refuses to take the simple measures
that save lives. Like wearing masks, social distancing, massive testing
and contact tracing. Instead he holds death rallies and he and his minions,
like you, have a defeatist attitude. The country that put man on the moon
and mobilized to win WWII, can't even mobilize to do testing. China can.
They have a new hotspot in Qingdao and the plan is to test 9 mil people in
5 days. And the world has taken notice. Even China is shocked at how the
mighty US has fallen down under Trump and can't get back up. Imagine if
Truman presented with the Berlin crisis had the approach of Trump. Or
Roosevelt faced with Pearl Harbor. Or Kennedy with the Cuban Missile Crisis.
No can do, let's just give up. In the early days of Covid Trump claimed
he was now a war time president. Some president, he quickly surrendered and took to lying instead of acting.


Of course you are not talking about the governor of New Jersey and what
a great job he did.

Overall the governor here did an excellent job as evidenced by the fact that
we put Covid down and so far have kept it down. We're on the small list of
states that have low levels, so travel between them is permitted with no
quarantine. I can go to MA, no quarantining. You, Fretwell and people in
most other states can't. The problem here is we still have some knuckleheads.
The Jews for some reason are incredibly stupid, as are some college students.
Those two groups are the source of most of the new infections.




Uh Huh

https://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2020/10/08/covid-19-cases-rising-in-new-jersey-as-officials-prepare-for-second-wave-1322590

On 10/17/2020 8:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, October 17, 2020 at 7:44:10 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 10/16/2020 8:27 PM, Bob F wrote:
On 10/16/2020 5:06 PM, Frank wrote:
On 10/16/2020 4:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what
Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand
co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity
listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid.Â* You could have heart disease
or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years.Â* You get infected with Covid, succumb to
it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate.Â* Covid still
directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live
15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.


and only a small fraction of those
are in nursing homes.Â* Further, a key driving factor in those
deaths is
that they were living in group quarters that makes disease
transmission
easy.

You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Those "group
quarters" are nursing homes or similar facilities.

No, you're just confused again.Â* I know nursing homes are group
quarters,
that was precisely my point.





Why is it that China has only 4500 deaths?Â* No aged population there?
No nursing homes?Â*Â* what's different is that they had leadership with
a plan that took Covid seriously.Â* We have a feckless orange clown who
lies and denies.

China enforces their quarantines at the point of a gun. There is also
more than a little skepticism in the truth of their totals.
I will grant you, an autocratic regime can restrict the spread of just
about anything. Disease, liberty, truth, just about anything.

And we have an evil, ignorant clown who refuses to take the simple
measures
that save lives.Â* Like wearing masks, social distancing, massive testing
and contact tracing.Â* Instead he holds death rallies and he and his
minions,
like you, have a defeatist attitude.Â* The country that put man on the
moon
and mobilized to win WWII, can't even mobilize to do testing.Â* China
can.
They have a new hotspot in Qingdao and the plan is to test 9 mil
people in
5 days. And the world has taken notice.Â* Even China is shocked at how
the
mighty US has fallen down under Trump and can't get back up. Imagine if
Truman presented with the Berlin crisis had the approach of Trump.Â* Or
Roosevelt faced with Pearl Harbor.Â* Or Kennedy with the Cuban Missile
Crisis.
No can do, let's just give up.Â*Â* In the early days of Covid Trump
claimed
he was now a war time president.Â* Some president, he quickly
surrendered and took to lying instead of acting.


Of course you are not talking about the governor of New Jersey and
what a great job he did.

That seems apparent. Is there some reason he should be?


Trump was criticized for thinking about taking control over states where
it is up to the governor. Blame Trump is getting about states is really
the governors' faults.

That's a good one Frank! Trump has only been talking about taking control
over some cities with regard to protesters and policing, not Covid. NJ doesn't
have a situation with protesters, rioters, or Covid out of control. We're
doing fine. So, what was your point again?


And trump seems to be lyingabout the assassination of an antifa suspect
in Washington recently. trump keeps claiming it was a major shootout,
but witnesses indicate the police were the only ones shooting.

"We sent in the US Marshals," Trump said during a campaign rally in
North Carolina, adding that it "took 15 minutes (and) it was over."
The President immediately followed that statement by appearing to
indicate that authorities had no intention of ever taking Reinoehl alive.

"They knew who he was; they didn't want to arrest him, and in 15 minutes
that ended," Trump said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/polit...ing/index.html

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 17:25:53 -0700, Bob F wrote:

One in a row isn't a study it is an anecdote.

Nope its a single study, stupid.

OTOH If it were true that out of the ~8million infections
only one guy was reinfected. It isn't even a thing.

It's a very rare thing, stupid. And it might be that
that individual's immune system is ****ed too. We
know that that does happen with some people.

It seems we are not even sure what we don't know about this virus

More utterly mindless silly stuff.

and thousands of people are studying it. Some things
can't be rushed, no matter what the leader says.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:03:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:05:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what Hawk
is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand
co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity
listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid. You could have heart disease or
diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years. You get infected with Covid, succumb to
it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate. Covid still
directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live 15
or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20
more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-age-group/

Highest number of deaths in the lowest number of people
.
But as usual the thread drifted
If you are 85 and have health conditions (why people go to assisted
living/nursing homes in the first place) any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you. This is the flu on steroids. Old people or really
anyone in poor health, may die if they get this.

You just contradicted yourself. First saying any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you, then saying this is the flu on steroids. This isn't
just any nasty bug, it's a highly contagious one that's far deadlier than
the flu.





Build a bubble around them and let r rip.

Sure and overload the hospitals, run out of ICU and have an epic disaster.
Even Trump isn't suggesting that. Additionally, it's a flawed strategy
because there is no evidence that people have much lasting immunity

Hardly surprising given that its only been around for 11 months.

and can get it again.

Only a microscopic handful MIGHT have got it again
and even those might have a ****ed immunity system.


We need to build some level of immunity. That is particularly true in
young healthy people because they are least likely to be serious about
not giving it to anyone else. If they are immune, they won't be super
spreaders.

I think when I said "this bug isn't going anywhere and it is coming
after us as soon as we get out from under the bed", I am vindicated.
The bug started grabbing us again as soon as we started opening up.

It mostly succeeds in grabbing you when you are stupid and do
stupid things. Like refuse to practice social distancing, refuse to
wear masks, hold totally unnecessary large gatherings.

Thats a lie with all though health care people who have got it.

Unfortunately one of the stupid people doing
all that, encouraging it, is the president.

I suppose we could go through another 6 months of this depression
until the vaccine is properly evaluated by the people we trust to do
that.

And how long do you think it would take to get this herd immunity that
you're
proposing? How many more dead do we wind up with? It's hard to find
more
than a small percentage of health authorities who say we should go with
your idea.



Then you have to trick people into getting it.

trump is good at that.



Half won't get a
flu shot. Distribution is not an issue if you don't let the government
do it. Just have the vaccines delivered to the big drug store
distribution centers and they can do the rest. Publix pays me to get a
flu shot so there has to be something in it for them..

We are still hoping it works tho.

If this is like the Corona Virus in the common cold, we know it can
mutate faster than we can make vaccine.
I am still waiting for a real answer about reinfection. So far it
seems to just be a collection of anecdotes.

Maybe it would be a good idea to figure that out before claiming herd
immunity
is the answer and to just let her rip?

On Saturday, October 17, 2020 at 12:32:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 07:45:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 8:03:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:05:56 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 3:48:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 05:03:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:58:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Yeah, that's a good one, because it says the opposite of what Hawk is claiming.
It says that people like him and Trump don't understand co-morbidity, so when
the CDC said the majority of Covid deaths have a co-morbidity listed, that
means they didn't die from Covid. You could have heart disease or diabetes
and live 15 or 20 years. You get infected with Covid, succumb to it and they
list Covid and diabetes on the death certificate. Covid still directly lead
to your death.

Since the highest demographic for covid death is 80+ and a large
percentage were in nursing homes, no they were not going to live 15 or
20 more years. Nursing home statics make that more like 15 or 20 more
weeks if nothing else happened to them including Covid. A bad cold
might push them over the edge.


Less than half of Covid deaths are over 80

Look at them per capita and get back to me.



Why don't you find whatever the data is that you're trying to claim?
That would work much better.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-age-group/

Highest number of deaths in the lowest number of people
.
But as usual the thread drifted
If you are 85 and have health conditions (why people go to assisted
living/nursing homes in the first place) any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you. This is the flu on steroids. Old people or really
anyone in poor health, may die if they get this.

You just contradicted yourself. First saying any kind of nasty bug is
going to kill you, then saying this is the flu on steroids. This isn't
just any nasty bug, it's a highly contagious one that's far deadlier than
the flu.

Hence the term. "on steroids"



Build a bubble around them and let r rip.

Sure and overload the hospitals, run out of ICU and have an epic disaster.
Even Trump isn't suggesting that. Additionally, it's a flawed strategy
because there is no evidence that people have much lasting immunity and
can get it again.



Hospitals were laying off people in the first surge

I'd like to see your cites for that irrational claim.



and we never had
those problems in any wide scale sense. The hospital ships went
virtually unused during the New York spike and that was the worst
place in the country. The ventilator shortage was oversold too. If you
want some, my buddy in the medical supply biz has a warehouse full.

Call me crazy, but it's responsible leadership to prepare for the worst
case scenario, instead of lying and denying, which is what Trump did and
is STILL DOING. Feel free to condemn that at any time.





We need to build some level of immunity. That is particularly true in
young healthy people because they are least likely to be serious about
not giving it to anyone else. If they are immune, they won't be super
spreaders.

I think when I said "this bug isn't going anywhere and it is coming
after us as soon as we get out from under the bed", I am vindicated.
The bug started grabbing us again as soon as we started opening up.

It mostly succeeds in grabbing you when you are stupid and do stupid things.
Like refuse to practice social distancing, refuse to wear masks, hold
totally unnecessary large gatherings. Unfortunately one of the stupid
people doing all that, encouraging it, is the president.

In other words, it will come get you as soon as you stop hiding under
the bed, just what I said.

Wearing a mask, maintaining social distancing, not going to death rallies,
is not what reasonable people would call hiding under the bed.


It isn't going anywhere you are just
describing how you hide from it.

AGain, look at the countries, including China, where it started that are
not hiding under the bed. China has had a few thousand deaths total.
Their economy is impacted far less right now than the US. Why? Because
instead of lying and denying they have leaders with a plan.


Your favorite autocratic countries just seal their borders. That is
not practical here.

That's a lie. Trump brags about cutting off travel. Problem is, that's
all he did.


For example. New York alone had 371,461 foreign visitors fly into the
local airports in July. How would you quarantine them all? There are
only 40,000 hotel rooms there. (20% have homeless people in them now)


Look at Hong Kong for comparison. Similar size, totally different results.
But of course you won't, because like Trump you prefer the ostrich mode.





I suppose we could go through another 6 months of this depression
until the vaccine is properly evaluated by the people we trust to do
that.

And how long do you think it would take to get this herd immunity that you're
proposing? How many more dead do we wind up with? It's hard to find more
than a small percentage of health authorities who say we should go with
your idea.

Pay me now or pay me later. The virus is not just going to go away.

Trumptard level. Is Trump lying when he says a vaccine is just around the
corner? Lying when he says we now have a cure and more is coming?
Why do you post this nonsense?




Then you have to trick people into getting it.

trump is good at that.



Half won't get a
flu shot. Distribution is not an issue if you don't let the government
do it. Just have the vaccines delivered to the big drug store
distribution centers and they can do the rest. Publix pays me to get a
flu shot so there has to be something in it for them..

We are still hoping it works tho.

If this is like the Corona Virus in the common cold, we know it can
mutate faster than we can make vaccine.
I am still waiting for a real answer about reinfection. So far it
seems to just be a collection of anecdotes.

Maybe it would be a good idea to figure that out before claiming herd immunity
is the answer and to just let her rip?

Do you have a better plan? Wearing a mask isn't it.

Yes, the plan just about all the world has adopted. Massive free testing,
social distancing, masks, contact tracing, until we have a vaccine. That's
the plan the US will be on by February. Meanwhile we have a president
who's lying and denying, holding death rallies, with no plan. It's obvious
why he does that. The question is, why do people like you support what he's
doing and spread more lies and misinformation?




Correctly quoting the stat 85% of the people infected said they WERE
wearing their mask and got it anyway.

If 85% of the people who died in car crashes were wearing their seat
belt it would make that argument pretty weak too.

Obviously you have no grounding in probability and statistics. Just like Trump.