OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctorsy become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

On 10/30/2018 6:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctorsy become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


That was when drug companies were pushing their drugs to doctors,
claiming no risk of addiction, with no proof of their claim. Free meals
to doctors?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...r-pharma-insys

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 30 Oct 2018 20:17:55 -0700, Bob F
wrote:

On 10/30/2018 6:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctorsy become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


That was when drug companies were pushing their drugs to doctors,
claiming no risk of addiction, with no proof of their claim. Free meals
to doctors?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...r-pharma-insys

I saw one "study" regarding iirc having doctors who actually already did
prescribe a drug teach a class (to other doctors? maybe those who
conveniently worked in the same hospital so it was easy to go to a 2PM
class, compared to driving some place after work) about using specific
drugs that drug companies were pushing, and either the doctors who
participated or those who didn't, or both, thought the point was for one
doctor to convince the other doctors. But the plan was actually to get
the first doctor to use the drug more, because a) his trying to teach
others would convince him even more, b) iirc he'd feel comraderie with
the people from the drug company and that would cause him to prescribe
more of it. IIRC, they paid him to teach the class but, partly
because the money was small by most standards and certainly compared to
what they earned as doctors, the money itself was not the incentive,
more the praise which the money represented.

Similarly I suspect, taking doctors out to dinner, it's not the price of
the meal, which they could afford on their own, it's the praise it
represents.

On 10/31/2018 12:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

Yes, Dr. Feelgood got a lot of them started but it is the illegal stuff
killing them. You have to curtail both.

Also a lot of guys in the construction business where heavy labor is
needed and leads to a lot of problems with the back etc should consider
other lines of work where they will put this body part out of service
that needs drugs to continue.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:29:05 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/31/2018 12:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

Yes, Dr. Feelgood got a lot of them started but it is the illegal stuff
killing them. You have to curtail both.


Pills kill as many people as smack or fentanal
As long as there are "pain management clinics" where all they do is
sell legal heroin, this is going to be a problem. We seem to have one
of those in every big strip mall.


Also a lot of guys in the construction business where heavy labor is
needed and leads to a lot of problems with the back etc should consider
other lines of work where they will put this body part out of service
that needs drugs to continue.

I think the drugs are a big part of the problem, just watching it in
action. They never let the bad part heal and mask the pain with drugs,
making the injury worse. At a certain point the "pain" they feel could
just be withdrawing from the drug anyway.
I would rather live with pain than be a junkie so I won't take that
**** at all. If I ever get that sick, I would probably take them all
at once.

On 10/31/2018 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:29:05 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/31/2018 12:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?

Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.
Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

Yes, Dr. Feelgood got a lot of them started but it is the illegal stuff
killing them. You have to curtail both.

Pills kill as many people as smack or fentanal
As long as there are "pain management clinics" where all they do is
sell legal heroin, this is going to be a problem. We seem to have one
of those in every big strip mall.


Also a lot of guys in the construction business where heavy labor is
needed and leads to a lot of problems with the back etc should consider
other lines of work where they will put this body part out of service
that needs drugs to continue.
I think the drugs are a big part of the problem, just watching it in
action. They never let the bad part heal and mask the pain with drugs,
making the injury worse. At a certain point the "pain" they feel could
just be withdrawing from the drug anyway.
I would rather live with pain than be a junkie so I won't take that
**** at all. If I ever get that sick, I would probably take them all
at once.

I have chronic back pain ... and most of the time Ibuprofen works just
fine . But occasionally I want something stronger ... my last scrip for
Tylenol 3 was written in May , a dozen tablets . I still have 5 of them
.. The thing is , this stuff scares me , I made a little mistake while I
was overseas in the early 70's that was too painful to ever want to
repeat .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On 10/31/2018 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:29:05 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/31/2018 12:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

Yes, Dr. Feelgood got a lot of them started but it is the illegal stuff
killing them. You have to curtail both.


Pills kill as many people as smack or fentanal
As long as there are "pain management clinics" where all they do is
sell legal heroin, this is going to be a problem. We seem to have one
of those in every big strip mall.


Also a lot of guys in the construction business where heavy labor is
needed and leads to a lot of problems with the back etc should consider
other lines of work where they will put this body part out of service
that needs drugs to continue.

I think the drugs are a big part of the problem, just watching it in
action. They never let the bad part heal and mask the pain with drugs,
making the injury worse. At a certain point the "pain" they feel could
just be withdrawing from the drug anyway.
I would rather live with pain than be a junkie so I won't take that
**** at all. If I ever get that sick, I would probably take them all
at once.

Only one of the four I know that lost a family member lost her to
prescription drugs and they were tranquilizers. The others were illegal
heroin. Heroin is not used legally as a pain killer.

This article says half:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...on-drug-misuse,
from legal opioids.

This may include those in cancer wards and the like. I know a nurse
that told me when he worked in a cancer ward that they were all dying
from the opiates. It was either that or die in pain. They are normally
very old at this point.

Of the families I knew, they were all in their 30's and healthy and I
don't think they got hooked by legal opiates.

I too hate opiates but have needed a few doses of morphine in the
hospital for severe pain. I refused to take ACP's for a collar bone
repair and nearly hurt my liver with ibuprofen. My wife hates them too
after going through withdrawal after needing opiates for knee replacement.

I met a heroin addict once in the hospital. He was having toes removed
for gangrene. He got hooked by legal opiates after an accident as a
tree cutter. One arm had the vein swollen, sticking out and inflamed.
The other vein was like a collapsed trench. He was a rotten SOB the way
he was treating his nurse.

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 4:09:02 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 10/31/2018 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:29:05 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/31/2018 12:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

Yes, Dr. Feelgood got a lot of them started but it is the illegal stuff
killing them. You have to curtail both.


Pills kill as many people as smack or fentanal
As long as there are "pain management clinics" where all they do is
sell legal heroin, this is going to be a problem. We seem to have one
of those in every big strip mall.


Also a lot of guys in the construction business where heavy labor is
needed and leads to a lot of problems with the back etc should consider
other lines of work where they will put this body part out of service
that needs drugs to continue.

I think the drugs are a big part of the problem, just watching it in
action. They never let the bad part heal and mask the pain with drugs,
making the injury worse. At a certain point the "pain" they feel could
just be withdrawing from the drug anyway.
I would rather live with pain than be a junkie so I won't take that
**** at all. If I ever get that sick, I would probably take them all
at once.

Only one of the four I know that lost a family member lost her to
prescription drugs and they were tranquilizers. The others were illegal
heroin. Heroin is not used legally as a pain killer.


There are a lot of people that start out with legal pain killers, get
hooked and then move on to heroin because it's cheaper and easier to get.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 16:08:57 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/31/2018 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 13:29:05 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 10/31/2018 12:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 23:09:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/30/2018 9:55 PM, micky wrote:
OT Opioid abuse

I understand that many people were given opioids for pain, caused by
illnesses, accidents, and surgery, and aiui a fairly high percentage of
them became addicted and a fairly high percentage of those addicted have
died or will die because of that.

But wasn't that when no one realized the risks of opioids?

Now that they know the risks and results, haven't doctors become much
less wiling to prescribe them, and for shorter periods, and if not, why
not? If so, are there still new people becoming addicted, or is this a
problem which will mostly go away soon?


Yes, I just saw something about that last week. Prescriptions have
generally been cut in half or more and some are not even prescribed.

Many of the new addictions are voluntary recreational users.

Dr Feelgood is far more responsible than they want to admit. They
offered me some kind of dope pretty much every time I had anything
more than a routine physical or had my teeth cleaned. They argue with
you when you say no. I never needed any of it and didn't take the
script.
Once you get a month or so in your system, it is very hard to quit. My
wife knew lots of construction guys who were 2-3 hits of dope a day
guys. (Vicodin, Percocet etc) At a certain point they either have to
keep coming up with new pains to get new scripts or start using
heroin. They are firmly hooked.

Yes, Dr. Feelgood got a lot of them started but it is the illegal stuff
killing them. You have to curtail both.


Pills kill as many people as smack or fentanal
As long as there are "pain management clinics" where all they do is
sell legal heroin, this is going to be a problem. We seem to have one
of those in every big strip mall.


Also a lot of guys in the construction business where heavy labor is
needed and leads to a lot of problems with the back etc should consider
other lines of work where they will put this body part out of service
that needs drugs to continue.

I think the drugs are a big part of the problem, just watching it in
action. They never let the bad part heal and mask the pain with drugs,
making the injury worse. At a certain point the "pain" they feel could
just be withdrawing from the drug anyway.
I would rather live with pain than be a junkie so I won't take that
**** at all. If I ever get that sick, I would probably take them all
at once.

Only one of the four I know that lost a family member lost her to
prescription drugs and they were tranquilizers. The others were illegal
heroin. Heroin is not used legally as a pain killer.

This article says half:
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...on-drug-misuse,
from legal opioids.

This may include those in cancer wards and the like. I know a nurse
that told me when he worked in a cancer ward that they were all dying
from the opiates. It was either that or die in pain. They are normally
very old at this point.

Of the families I knew, they were all in their 30's and healthy and I
don't think they got hooked by legal opiates.

I too hate opiates but have needed a few doses of morphine in the
hospital for severe pain. I refused to take ACP's for a collar bone
repair and nearly hurt my liver with ibuprofen. My wife hates them too
after going through withdrawal after needing opiates for knee replacement.

I met a heroin addict once in the hospital. He was having toes removed
for gangrene. He got hooked by legal opiates after an accident as a
tree cutter. One arm had the vein swollen, sticking out and inflamed.
The other vein was like a collapsed trench. He was a rotten SOB the way
he was treating his nurse.

I understand the path from pain killers to heroin but they are
essentially the same drug and equally bad. My neighbor and his son
both have had problems with abuse. The son was on a methadone regimen
for years to stay off the other stuff. It was all prescribed.
It took the son 6 or 7 years to get straight and I think he is one bad
night from starting right back up again. The father is simply managing
his addiction, not curing it.
As an aside I knew 2 guys in the computer business who were semi
functional addicts. They were not really effective but they showed up
every day so they got to stay. Eventually the ethnic politics were
right to buy them out.
The only reason I knew was I was assigned to mentor them and they told
me in an off hand moment that they were snorting "boy". I was confused
because I assumed it was cocaine and they certainly did not have that
demeanor. Later someone told me "boy" was china white heroin.
I suggested there were programs and tried to get them interested but I
did not rat them out.

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:19:56 -0400,
wrote:



I think the drugs are a big part of the problem, just watching it in
action. They never let the bad part heal and mask the pain with drugs,
making the injury worse. At a certain point the "pain" they feel could
just be withdrawing from the drug anyway.
I would rather live with pain than be a junkie so I won't take that
**** at all. If I ever get that sick, I would probably take them all
at once.

After I had abdominal surgery, the doctor sent me home with a
prescription for something with codeine I think it was. My friend's
wife went to the store to get it, but I told her just get the part
without the codeine. Like you, I'd rather have a little pain than take
chances (even though codeine is not as risky??).

It turned out I only need one or two tylenol, total. It was sore but
really didn't hurt much, even with stitches along 18" (This wasn't the
day after surgery but 4 or 5 days after. I don't know what they gave me
in the hospital.)

On TV, people will say "I need a drink". How do they know that? I
drink but I guess not enough to know what problem it will make go away
or when. Or maybe it doesn't make my problems go away. Not even
tension.