This might not be new to most but anyhow:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/05/why-you-shouldnt-wash-your-dishes-by-hand/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d995a1e3c6f

Machines do better than people.

On 10/29/18 8:06 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
This might not be new to most but anyhow:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/05/why-you-shouldnt-wash-your-dishes-by-hand/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d995a1e3c6f


Â*Â*Â* Machines do better than people.

My previous dishwasher and detergent with phosphates cleaned really well
with a 1-hour cycle.

This new one you have to use the longest high-heat cycle (4hr 20min) to
get the dishes to come out clean.

On 10/29/2018 8:06 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Â* This might not be new to most but anyhow:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/05/why-you-shouldnt-wash-your-dishes-by-hand/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d995a1e3c6f


Â*Â*Â* Machines do better than people.

I think I've heard questions here about how someone might get all the
crap accumulated in the dishwasher like chicken bones.

I can't imagine going this far without throwing such in the trash and
minor rinsing. Somethings need a little mechanical help to start
removing before putting in the dish washer. Also for those of us with
septic systems which are not too fond of digesting fats, most of these
should be removed first.

On 10/29/2018 8:06 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Â* This might not be new to most but anyhow:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/05/why-you-shouldnt-wash-your-dishes-by-hand/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d995a1e3c6f


Â*Â*Â* Machines do better than people.

A few people think they are saving water doing dishes by hand. There
are only two of us and we run the machine usually every other day. They
come out perfectly clean and are sanitized. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Use a good detergent though.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:06:02 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:

This might not be new to most but anyhow:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/05/why-you-shouldnt-wash-your-dishes-by-hand/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d995a1e3c6f

Machines do better than people.


Energy Star is a consortium of appliance manufacturers. Their goal is, no used appliances
available. They want you to replace that old, inefficient beast--apparently, every week.

--
croy

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:06:02 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

This might not be new to most but anyhow:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/05/05/why-you-shouldnt-wash-your-dishes-by-hand/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d995a1e3c6f

Machines do better than people.

I don't have a dishwasher but when we rent houses on vacation they
usually do. I suppose they are great if you don't mind dirty dishes
but I still find myself hand washing them, either before or after they
go through the dishwasher.

I do believe they save water but I am not sure what the tradeoff is in
power usage. It certainly appears to me that the 1KW heating element
is on for most of the cycle, even if you let them air dry. Otherwise
you would be washing dishes in cold water most of that time. The water
definitely seems hotter at the end of the cycle than at the start.

On 10/29/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:

I don't have a dishwasher but when we rent houses on vacation they
usually do. I suppose they are great if you don't mind dirty dishes
but I still find myself hand washing them, either before or after they
go through the dishwasher.

I do believe they save water but I am not sure what the tradeoff is in
power usage. It certainly appears to me that the 1KW heating element
is on for most of the cycle, even if you let them air dry. Otherwise
you would be washing dishes in cold water most of that time. The water
definitely seems hotter at the end of the cycle than at the start.


Why would they be dirty? In a rental, chances are it is a cheap machine
and crappy detergent. We have a KitchenAid DW and use Cascade Platinum
detergent pods. If a dish is really dirty, the most it gets is a pssst
under the faucet to get the big chunks off. Dishes and glassware comes
out sparkling clean like it is brand new. I have glasses that were my
grandmother's and are at least 80 years old and still look great.

You do use hot water for the connection and there is one cycle that does
boost the temperature to sanitize. I can't imagine not having a machine.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/29/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:

I don't have a dishwasher but when we rent houses on vacation they
usually do. I suppose they are great if you don't mind dirty dishes
but I still find myself hand washing them, either before or after they
go through the dishwasher.

I do believe they save water but I am not sure what the tradeoff is in
power usage. It certainly appears to me that the 1KW heating element
is on for most of the cycle, even if you let them air dry. Otherwise
you would be washing dishes in cold water most of that time. The water
definitely seems hotter at the end of the cycle than at the start.


Why would they be dirty? In a rental, chances are it is a cheap machine
and crappy detergent. We have a KitchenAid DW and use Cascade Platinum
detergent pods. If a dish is really dirty, the most it gets is a pssst
under the faucet to get the big chunks off. Dishes and glassware comes
out sparkling clean like it is brand new. I have glasses that were my
grandmother's and are at least 80 years old and still look great.

You do use hot water for the connection and there is one cycle that does
boost the temperature to sanitize. I can't imagine not having a machine.

Dunno, Maybe they were cheap machines but it was unlikely since we
usually rent a pretty high end house.
This is the one we had in Badrock Montana
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/montana/Bad...ry%20House.jpg

I guess I just never saw the need. We don't usually have that many
dishes to wash and the idea of saving up dirty ones for a few days is
not attractive to me.

On 10/29/2018 4:16 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/29/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:

I don't have a dishwasher but when we rent houses on vacation they
usually do. I suppose they are great if you don't mind dirty dishes
but I still find myself hand washing them, either before or after they
go through the dishwasher.

I do believe they save water but I am not sure what the tradeoff is in
power usage. It certainly appears to me that the 1KW heating element
is on for most of the cycle, even if you let them air dry. Otherwise
you would be washing dishes in cold water most of that time. The water
definitely seems hotter at the end of the cycle than at the start.


Why would they be dirty? In a rental, chances are it is a cheap machine
and crappy detergent. We have a KitchenAid DW and use Cascade Platinum
detergent pods. If a dish is really dirty, the most it gets is a pssst
under the faucet to get the big chunks off. Dishes and glassware comes
out sparkling clean like it is brand new. I have glasses that were my
grandmother's and are at least 80 years old and still look great.

You do use hot water for the connection and there is one cycle that does
boost the temperature to sanitize. I can't imagine not having a machine.

Dunno, Maybe they were cheap machines but it was unlikely since we
usually rent a pretty high end house.
This is the one we had in Badrock Montana
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/montana/Bad...ry%20House.jpg

I guess I just never saw the need. We don't usually have that many
dishes to wash and the idea of saving up dirty ones for a few days is
not attractive to me.

I would think a place like that would have a decent machine.

We run ours roughly every other day. The dishes are in a box and we
don't see them except when adding a few more. I've washed plenty of
dishes but prefer automation and superior quality.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:15:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

*** Machines do better than people.

A few people think they are saving water doing dishes by hand. There
are only two of us and we run the machine usually every other day. They
come out perfectly clean and are sanitized. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Use a good detergent though.

I have a machine and the back-up washer. She gets 'em really clean. I
bought her ~33 years ago. She still ain't wore out

On 10/29/2018 9:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:15:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Â*Â*Â* Machines do better than people.

A few people think they are saving water doing dishes by hand. There
are only two of us and we run the machine usually every other day. They
come out perfectly clean and are sanitized. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Use a good detergent though.

I have a machine and the back-up washer. She gets 'em really clean. I
bought her ~33 years ago. She still ain't wore out


Yeah, but how much are you paying for the extended warranty?

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 13:26:36 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/29/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:

I don't have a dishwasher but when we rent houses on vacation they
usually do. I suppose they are great if you don't mind dirty dishes
but I still find myself hand washing them, either before or after they
go through the dishwasher.

I do believe they save water but I am not sure what the tradeoff is in
power usage. It certainly appears to me that the 1KW heating element
is on for most of the cycle, even if you let them air dry. Otherwise
you would be washing dishes in cold water most of that time. The water
definitely seems hotter at the end of the cycle than at the start.


Why would they be dirty? In a rental, chances are it is a cheap machine
and crappy detergent. We have a KitchenAid DW and use Cascade Platinum
detergent pods. If a dish is really dirty, the most it gets is a pssst
under the faucet to get the big chunks off. Dishes and glassware comes
out sparkling clean like it is brand new. I have glasses that were my
grandmother's and are at least 80 years old and still look great.

You do use hot water for the connection and there is one cycle that does
boost the temperature to sanitize. I can't imagine not having a machine.

Funny how that works. My son put one of those slow-drop toilet seats on our toilet a
couple years ago. Don't know how I ever lived without it. But somehow I did.
Same thing happened when they came out with geared blade can openers. I thought,
"Man, why didn't I think of that?" Never looked back on can openers.
We don't have a dishwasher, only because our kitchen is old. I'll put one in when I
remodel the kitchen. My wife - she was a professional chef - used to bitch at me about
not having a dishwasher. When she was working as a chef she had guy dishwashers.
But now when cooking daily meals for 5 people at her "job" babysitting grandkids at our
daughter's house, she's not bitching about it anymore. I asked her how she likes the
dishwasher there. She said she seldom uses it, because it's only efficient if it's near
full. Too many cooking implements, eg spatulas, strainers, pots, are needed for the next
meal, so must be washed immediately.
She still wants one here, because we have a lot of family meals, and there's plenty of
dishes to justify one then. But it's not a big deal, because usually the girls chip in.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 22:29:41 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/29/2018 9:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:15:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

*** Machines do better than people.

A few people think they are saving water doing dishes by hand. There
are only two of us and we run the machine usually every other day. They
come out perfectly clean and are sanitized. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Use a good detergent though.

I have a machine and the back-up washer. She gets 'em really clean. I
bought her ~33 years ago. She still ain't wore out


Yeah, but how much are you paying for the extended warranty?

Way, way more than I bargained for. Parts are still very expensive
when not covered under the fine print.

On 10/30/2018 3:00 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 22:29:41 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/29/2018 9:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:15:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Â*Â*Â* Machines do better than people.
A few people think they are saving water doing dishes by hand. There
are only two of us and we run the machine usually every other day. They
come out perfectly clean and are sanitized. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Use a good detergent though.
I have a machine and the back-up washer. She gets 'em really clean. I
bought her ~33 years ago. She still ain't wore out

Yeah, but how much are you paying for the extended warranty?
Way, way more than I bargained for. Parts are still very expensive
when not covered under the fine print.

And disposal costs are huge!

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
15.223...
On Tue 30 Oct 2018 02:17:14p, Jack Knauff told us...

On 10/30/2018 3:00 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 22:29:41 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 10/29/2018 9:31 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:15:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

   Machines do better than people.
A few people think they are saving water doing dishes by hand.
There are only two of us and we run the machine usually every
other day. They come out perfectly clean and are sanitized.
Makes a lot of sense to me. Use a good detergent though.
I have a machine and the back-up washer. She gets 'em really
clean. I bought her ~33 years ago. She still ain't wore out

Yeah, but how much are you paying for the extended warranty?
Way, way more than I bargained for. Parts are still very
expensive when not covered under the fine print.

And disposal costs are huge!



When we bought our Bosch we also bought an extended warranty, but we
bought the warranty from the appliance dealer instead of from Bosch,
a huge difference in price.

If I didnd't have a working dishwasher I wouldn't cook. :-) I don't
buy anything used in the kitchen that isn't dishwasher safe. I will
even run 2 or 3 cycles if I have a lot of large items; e.g., pots and
pans and mixing bowls.

Yeah, I'd never wash by hand again. I don’t use it all that often,
got lots of plates and cutlery and glasses and usually to the
dishwasher run every 10 days or so when I have run out of
dinner plates. Don’t use pots and pans much at all anymore.
Most dinners are done in the air fryer or glass convection
oven or on those cast iron plates under the grill for steaks
and chops and stuff like that.

I also do the beer brewing bottles in it. In fact I would never
have got into brewing my own beer if I had to wash the
bottles by hand. Mate of mine told me that they are fine
in the dishwasher and when I proved that for myself,
got me into brewing beer and have never regretted that.
Leave all the commercial beer for dead, including the
microbrewery stuff.

I also do the really filthy stuff like the kitchen exhaust
fan shutter and the glass shelves in the fridge etc too.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:45:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



Yeah, I'd never wash by hand again.

Oh, darn! And this innocent little thread was Rot-free, so far! tsk

--
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp about senile cretin Rot Speed:
"Thick pillock!"
MID:

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 1:26:39 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:

I don't have a dishwasher but when we rent houses on vacation they
usually do. I suppose they are great if you don't mind dirty dishes
but I still find myself hand washing them, either before or after they
go through the dishwasher.

I do believe they save water but I am not sure what the tradeoff is in
power usage. It certainly appears to me that the 1KW heating element
is on for most of the cycle, even if you let them air dry. Otherwise
you would be washing dishes in cold water most of that time. The water
definitely seems hotter at the end of the cycle than at the start.


Why would they be dirty? In a rental, chances are it is a cheap machine
and crappy detergent.

+1

Been there, done that. Add old machine and half shot to the mix too.
Went snowboarding one time and rented a condo. It had an old piece of
crap machine, probably 20 years old and it was broken. We reported it
right away, were there for 3 days and they never fixed it, nor apologized,
offered any compensation, nada. Made sure to leave them the appropriate
review and never used them again.









We have a KitchenAid DW and use Cascade Platinum
detergent pods. If a dish is really dirty, the most it gets is a pssst
under the faucet to get the big chunks off. Dishes and glassware comes
out sparkling clean like it is brand new. I have glasses that were my
grandmother's and are at least 80 years old and still look great.

I use the cheaper detergent, was using Finish Advanced, just trying
Walmart's right now. Works for me, same as the Finish from what I can tell.
Very high percent, everything comes out clean. Once in a while, a really
cooked on pot will have something left that needs hand work, but not
often.




You do use hot water for the connection and there is one cycle that does
boost the temperature to sanitize. I can't imagine not having a machine.

IDK what they actually do with heating. For sure, at least sometimes I will
hear it pause for about 5 mins after filling for the last cycle. So, it
must be heating at that point. Whether it heats for other cycles, if
the water isn't hot enough, IDK. You would think it would, if the water
isn't hot enough. But whatever it's doing, I doubt it uses much energy,
there isn't all that much water to heat. I can run a 1500W heater full
on for an hour for 20 cents.