On 09/25/2018 09:05 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
* contact cement = we may have covered this as latex rubber cement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement

"Because rubber cements are designed to peel easily or rub off without
damaging the paper or leaving any trace of adhesive behind, they are
ideal for use in paste-up work where excess cement might need to be
removed."

I will be very disappointed if the Weldwood contact cement I'm using to
repair the scree cuffs on my boots peels easily. The chemistry is
similar but the usage is quite different.

I have two species of Gorillas on the shelf: PVA wood glue, and the
foaming (polyurethane) white glue. The wood glue specifically says on
the label that it doesn't foam.

PU glues need to be used correctly. Yes, they foam and no, they aren't
made to fill that 1/8" gap. Used sparingly and tightly clamped the
foaming will help to ensure you don't have a glue starved joint. They
are arguably a little better on end grain joints than PVA. For a
properly glued long grain joint either PVA or PU will usually tear the
wood apart so the 'strength' of the glue itself is moot.

On 09/25/2018 02:39 PM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
On thing polyurethane glues are not good for is large gaps
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/a...ethane_glue/2/

Precisely. The assumption that because it foams it will make up for poor
preparation is wrong. The foam itself has very little strength.

On 09/25/2018 09:19 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
In the home, there's not a lot of plexiglass I don't think - but there is
plenty of PVC pipe. So I'll add that to the home "glue" kit, thanks to your
suggestion.

I'm a little strange. I actually have a sheet of plexiglass leaning
against the refrigerator for various projects. Acetone is my solvent of
choice.

Another off label use for acetone that I've found is refreshing my
motorcycle saddlebags. They are ABS with a leather like pattern molded
in. Strange to say the company is called LeatherLyke:

https://ridermagazine.com/2010/03/29...lebags-review/

Anyway the get a bit gray over time. Reflowing the surface with acetone
eliminates the gray nicely without destroying the molded in pattern.

On 09/25/2018 09:05 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
You named useful glues so let's gather some information about them.
* contact cement = we may have covered this as latex rubber cement
* super glue = we covered this as ethyl cyano acrylate
* hot melt glue
* carpenter's glue = we covered this as poly vinyl alcohol
* gorilla glue (foamy)
* sho goo = we covered this as styrene-butadiene rubber
* jb weld = we covered this as poly epoxide 2-part epoxies

The two new glues we
* gorilla glue (foamy)
* hot melt glue

There is another acrylate that I have in various flavors --
methacrylate. I know you don't like brand names but it is commonly
referred to as Loctite. Of course Loctite has a wide range of products
other than threadlockers just to confuse the issue.

Probably not something kids renting an apartment would need unless they
get sick of the setscrew on a old doorknob backing out.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:16:22 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 09/25/2018 02:39 PM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
On thing polyurethane glues are not good for is large gaps
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/a...ethane_glue/2/

Precisely. The assumption that because it foams it will make up for poor
preparation is wrong. The foam itself has very little strength.

Several years ago I did a test on Gorilla urethane glue, yellow water
proof, yellow regular and white glue.
I glued and clamped a pair of hardwood 1x2s (red oak) and a pair of
softwood 1x2s (Southern Yellow Pine). They were clamped like a cross
with a 1.5 x 1.5 glue joint. After letting them cure for a week, I
tried to break them. The gorilla glue was the weakest. The glue joint
broke. The rest tore out wood and I think the good old white glue was
the strongest but it was a toss up with the regular yellow.
The gorilla fans said I did not have enough moisture content in the
wood.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:16:22 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


On thing polyurethane glues are not good for is large gaps
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/a...ethane_glue/2/

Precisely. The assumption that because it foams it will make up for poor
preparation is wrong. The foam itself has very little strength.

That's what the article says, senile idiot!

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:12:35 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement

"Because rubber cements are designed to peel easily or rub off without
damaging the paper or leaving any trace of adhesive behind, they are
ideal for use in paste-up work where excess cement might need to be
removed."

I will be very disappointed if the Weldwood contact cement I'm using to
repair the scree cuffs on my boots peels easily. The chemistry is
similar but the usage is quite different.

I have two species of Gorillas on the shelf: PVA wood glue, and the
foaming (polyurethane) white glue. The wood glue specifically says on
the label that it doesn't foam.

PU glues need to be used correctly. Yes, they foam and no, they aren't
made to fill that 1/8" gap. Used sparingly and tightly clamped the
foaming will help to ensure you don't have a glue starved joint. They
are arguably a little better on end grain joints than PVA. For a
properly glued long grain joint either PVA or PU will usually tear the
wood apart so the 'strength' of the glue itself is moot.

Feeling better now, you clueless glue-huffer? LOL

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:34:53 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:



There is another acrylate that I have in various flavors --
methacrylate.

"Flavours"? You huff them all, eh, clueless glue-huffer? LOL

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:26:20 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:




I'm a little strange.

Yes, you've been huffing too much of all that glue, lowbrowman!

Thanks for this improved list, with brand name examples!

10 most common household "adhesives"
* poly vinyl alcohol ("Elmers", white, yellow, for rigid wood, cardboard)
* styrene butadiene rubber ("Shoe Goo", flexible leather cloth repair)
* poly epoxide ("JB-Weld, 2-part, for porcelain)
* ethyl cyano acrylate ("Krazy", fast repairs, tight fit)
* latex rubber cement ("brand?", paper that can't get wet, easily removed)
* thermoplastic ("brand?", hot-melt glue)
* polyurethane ("Gorilla", foamy, water cured)
* pvc cement ("Oatey", 2 part, primer + solvent)

How does the list look? (Did I include everyone's suggestions?)

On 9/25/2018 10:34 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/25/2018 09:05 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
You named useful glues so let's gather some information about them.
* contact cement = we may have covered this as latex rubber cement
* super glue = we covered this as ethyl cyano acrylate
* hot melt glue
* carpenter's glue = we covered this as poly vinyl alcohol
* gorilla glue (foamy)
* sho goo = we covered this as styrene-butadiene rubber
* jb weld = we covered this as poly epoxide 2-part epoxies

The two new glues we
* gorilla glue (foamy)
* hot melt glue

There is another acrylate that I have in various flavors --
methacrylate. I know you don't like brand names but it is commonly
referred to as Loctite. Of course Loctite has a wide range of products
other than threadlockers just to confuse the issue.

Probably not something kids renting an apartment would need unless they
get sick of the setscrew on a old doorknob backing out.


Cyanoacrylates differ from methacrylates as the methyl group is replaced
by a cyano group.

There are methacrylate adhesives but require a second part with
catalyst. Cyanoacrylate cure is initiated by moisture.

On 9/25/2018 9:53 PM, wrote:
....

Several years ago I did a test on Gorilla urethane glue, yellow water
proof, yellow regular and white glue.
I glued and clamped a pair of hardwood 1x2s (red oak) and a pair of
softwood 1x2s (Southern Yellow Pine). They were clamped like a cross
with a 1.5 x 1.5 glue joint. After letting them cure for a week, I
tried to break them. The gorilla glue was the weakest. The glue joint
broke. The rest tore out wood and I think the good old white glue was
the strongest but it was a toss up with the regular yellow.
The gorilla fans said I did not have enough moisture content in the
wood.

I've seen the same test several places with the Gorilla polyurethane
always the weakest with highest percentage of joint failure; order of
the others generally had one of the newer yellow or the Weldwood T II or
T III ahead of the white but not sufficiently as to make much real,
practical difference.

What is significant in choice is whether the application needs more
water resistance or not.

I will not use the polyurethane (one-part) at all, ever, for woodworking
purposes; it's just too much mess to deal with.

--

On 9/26/2018 7:21 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
Thanks for this improved list, with brand name examples!

10 most common household "adhesives"
* poly vinyl alcohol ("Elmers", white, yellow, for rigid wood, cardboard)
* styrene butadiene rubber ("Shoe Goo", flexible leather cloth repair)
* poly epoxide ("JB-Weld, 2-part, for porcelain)
* ethyl cyano acrylate ("Krazy", fast repairs, tight fit)
* latex rubber cement ("brand?", paper that can't get wet, easily removed)
* thermoplastic ("brand?", hot-melt glue)
* polyurethane ("Gorilla", foamy, water cured)
* pvc cement ("Oatey", 2 part, primer + solvent)

How does the list look? (Did I include everyone's suggestions?)

I just thought of the old Duco cement which is nitro cellulose.

On 26/09/2018 @ 13:19:54, Frank wrote:

I just thought of the old Duco cement which is nitro cellulose.

Thanks for that idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duco

Is this the stuff?
https://www.amazon.com/Duco-Cement-M.../dp/B0000A605H

Certainly it's nitro cellulose, which is different than what we've covered
http://www.itwconsumer.com/devcon-pr...2E%20bottle-53

Any idea what this "nitro cellulose" adhesive is particularly good for?
The advertising seems similar to most glues.
Bonds: Wood, China, Leather, Glass, Paper, Ceramic, Metal

Although I didn't check it against tensile strength claims of the others
* 200 psi (glass to glass)
* 700 psi (metal to metal)
* 1200 psi (wood to wood)

On 09/26/2018 05:40 AM, Frank wrote:

There are methacrylate adhesives but require a second part with
catalyst. Cyanoacrylate cure is initiated by moisture.

Threadlockers are anaerobic and depend on the interaction with the
thread material. There is a primer that is recommended for aluminum but
it's not a catalyst.

On 09/26/2018 06:53 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
Any idea what this "nitro cellulose" adhesive is particularly good for?
The advertising seems similar to most glues.
Bonds: Wood, China, Leather, Glass, Paper, Ceramic, Metal

People like the smell... I'm not being facetious; it's what people
always used and it still works as well as it ever did. For instance when
making arrows (cedar shafts) it was often used for the nocks and
fletching. Personally, I use CA for the nocks and double sided tape for
the fletches. Both are fast. It takes a little practice to deal with the
very narrow tape but with tape once the feather is in place you can move
on rather than letting the glue dry in the jig.

I had a tube I was using for some joints on a model longboat but I
managed to stab the tube with an x-acto knife and it was leaking. I
probably won't replace it. It was good for gluing printed trim to the
hull without harming the ink on the paper.

On 26/09/2018 @ 15:04:19, rbowman wrote:

People like the smell... I'm not being facetious; it's what people
always used and it still works as well as it ever did.

Thanks for the insight into the "Duco" brand nitro cellulose adhesives.

I just realized, looking in my own glue toolbox, that I have assorted
room-temperature vulcanizing "silicone sealants", mostly used for
weatherstripping, where, I'm not sure if that qualifies as an "adhesive" or
not.

Someone mentioned "loctite" brand threadlockers, which seem to be
vacuum-cured methacrylate.

I guess there are also uv-cured glass-repair products such as this
https://www.masterbond.com/tds/uv25

The uv-cured adhesives seem to be expensive though
https://www.ellsworth.com/products/adhesives/uv-curing/

Would you include RTV in a common home kit?
(the recipients do have cars but don't work in them AFAIK).

What about that uv-cured stuff?
Have any of you used it in the home?

On 26/09/2018 @ 14:50:08, rbowman wrote:

Threadlockers are anaerobic and depend on the interaction with the
thread material. There is a primer that is recommended for aluminum but
it's not a catalyst.

I think it's valid to add the methyl acrylates since they're commonly used,
where I'd be interested in how they cure just by being steel on steel in a
vacuum.

I'm not so sure about RTV, since it's not really a glue, is it?

Anyway, adding all the inputs to date, how does this list look so far?
* poly vinyl alcohol ("Elmers", white, yellow, for rigid wood, cardboard)
* styrene butadiene rubber ("Shoe Goo", flexible leather cloth repair)
* poly epoxide ("JB-Weld, 2-part, for porcelain)
* ethyl cyano acrylate ("Krazy", fast repairs, tight fit, water cured)
* methyl acrylate ("Loctite", securing threaded bolts, vacuum cured)
* latex rubber cement ("Latex-ite", dry use, easily removed)
* nitro cellulose ("Duco", smells nicer than most household adhesives)
* thermoplastic glue sticks ("Adtech", hot-melt glue)
* polyurethane ("Gorilla", foamy, water cured)
* pvc cement ("Oatey", 2 part, primer + solvent)
* room temperature vulcanizing rubber ("Permatex", sealing cracks & joints)

On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 07:50:08 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


There are methacrylate adhesives but require a second part with
catalyst. Cyanoacrylate cure is initiated by moisture.

Threadlockers are anaerobic and depend on the interaction with the
thread material. There is a primer that is recommended for aluminum but
it's not a catalyst.

It isn't, senile driveler? BG

On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 08:04:19 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:



I had a tube

Did you? LOL

On 09/26/2018 09:36 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
I'm not so sure about RTV, since it's not really a glue, is it?

Sort of, in a pinch. I've used the common moisture cured versions and
the two part varieties for mold making but 'glue' isn't the first thing
that comes to my mind. Sealant definitely.

Logan MacEwens wrote:
I'm building a tool "kit" for a new home renter (bunch of kids who just
graduated from college and now have their first house rental).

One of the toolboxes in the house-warming kit is the 'glue box'.

The goal is to have one (and only one) kind of the most used glues.
* PVA wood glue (for non-flexing porous surface repairs)
* Styrene-butadiene rubber ("Shoe Goo" flexible leather cloth repair)
* Polyepoxides, (2-part epoxy for strength in things like porcelain)
* Ethyl cyanoacrylate (non-flexing plastics repairs, must be small tubes)
* Latex rubber cement (for flexing plastic repairs)

The goal is to handle many types of common situations.

What other types of glues do you stock in your glue kit?
And what use is it best for?

Aliens tacky glue. Like elmers or wood glue but has some flex for things
needing some bending.

Shoe Glue in the form of Marine Goop, UV protectors. Outside and inside
repairs. Very tough and strong, can glue PVC pipe.

Silicone rtv, flexible, stick to most things that are clean.

Polyurethane, tough, sticks to cement.

Greg

rbowman wrote:
On 09/26/2018 09:36 AM, Logan MacEwens wrote:
I'm not so sure about RTV, since it's not really a glue, is it?

Sort of, in a pinch. I've used the common moisture cured versions and the
two part varieties for mold making but 'glue' isn't the first thing that
comes to my mind. Sealant definitely.

Glues fish tanks.

Greg

On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 19:38:51 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


Sort of, in a pinch. I've used the common moisture cured versions and
the two part varieties for mold making but 'glue' isn't the first thing
that comes to my mind. Sealant definitely.

You clearly have been huffing too much glue, senile lowbrowman! Explains a
lot about you and your endless senile driveling!