On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

Between my meter and my house main panel is a disconnect, installed when they upgraded the panel.

Does that disconnect switch just the hots, or the neutral too?

Because if I pull that disconnect and am totally off the grid, I'm not going to endanger any linemen if I put a generator in my system, correctly or not.

But if the neutral is still connected, is there a risk?
In better than 90% of disconnects (I'd say likely 99+) the neutral is
NOT switched. If bthe neureal is not grounded there COULD be a danger
as the neutral COULD be above ground potential by enough to be
dangerous. Doesn't need to be high enough to kill - just to knock the
(somewhat careless) lineman off the ladder.

On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 11:21:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

Between my meter and my house main panel is a disconnect, installed when they upgraded the panel.

Does that disconnect switch just the hots, or the neutral too?

Because if I pull that disconnect and am totally off the grid, I'm not going to endanger any linemen if I put a generator in my system, correctly or not.

But if the neutral is still connected, is there a risk?
In better than 90% of disconnects (I'd say likely 99+) the neutral is
NOT switched. If bthe neureal is not grounded there COULD be a danger
as the neutral COULD be above ground potential by enough to be
dangerous. Doesn't need to be high enough to kill - just to knock the
(somewhat careless) lineman off the ladder.

The neutral is grounded/earthed at the service side at the disconnect,
whether it's switched or unswitched. At least it is if it's installed
to code, inspected by the AHJ, by the power company before they turn
on power, etc. This is very basic. So, again, I see no way with the disconnect open that you can backfeed into the utility and shock a
lineman by doing anything on the customer side of the disconnect.
And that's true whether the neutral is switched or not.

On 9/14/2017 12:24 PM, Snohomo Jackie G aka wrote:
Why do you keep bringing off topic posts from alt.home.repair here?


Why are you such an idiot?

LoLoLoL

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:39 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 11:21:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

Between my meter and my house main panel is a disconnect, installed when they upgraded the panel.

Does that disconnect switch just the hots, or the neutral too?

Because if I pull that disconnect and am totally off the grid, I'm not going to endanger any linemen if I put a generator in my system, correctly or not.

But if the neutral is still connected, is there a risk?
In better than 90% of disconnects (I'd say likely 99+) the neutral is
NOT switched. If bthe neureal is not grounded there COULD be a danger
as the neutral COULD be above ground potential by enough to be
dangerous. Doesn't need to be high enough to kill - just to knock the
(somewhat careless) lineman off the ladder.

The neutral is grounded/earthed at the service side at the disconnect,
whether it's switched or unswitched. At least it is if it's installed
to code, inspected by the AHJ, by the power company before they turn
on power, etc. This is very basic. So, again, I see no way with the disconnect open that you can backfeed into the utility and shock a
lineman by doing anything on the customer side of the disconnect.
And that's true whether the neutral is switched or not.

That makes sense to me anyway.

I have 240 in my shed. If I connected a small generator there and backfed the house, turning off any nonessential breakers but running my wifes CPAP and one small fridge, would that be reasonably safe? Do they make a male outlet to install so a suicide extension cord is unnecessary?

On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 17:04:16 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:39 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 11:21:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

Between my meter and my house main panel is a disconnect, installed when they upgraded the panel.

Does that disconnect switch just the hots, or the neutral too?

Because if I pull that disconnect and am totally off the grid, I'm not going to endanger any linemen if I put a generator in my system, correctly or not.

But if the neutral is still connected, is there a risk?
In better than 90% of disconnects (I'd say likely 99+) the neutral is
NOT switched. If bthe neureal is not grounded there COULD be a danger
as the neutral COULD be above ground potential by enough to be
dangerous. Doesn't need to be high enough to kill - just to knock the
(somewhat careless) lineman off the ladder.

The neutral is grounded/earthed at the service side at the disconnect,
whether it's switched or unswitched. At least it is if it's installed
to code, inspected by the AHJ, by the power company before they turn
on power, etc. This is very basic. So, again, I see no way with the disconnect open that you can backfeed into the utility and shock a
lineman by doing anything on the customer side of the disconnect.
And that's true whether the neutral is switched or not.

That makes sense to me anyway.

I have 240 in my shed. If I connected a small generator there and backfed the house, turning off any nonessential breakers but running my wifes CPAP and one small fridge, would that be reasonably safe? Do they make a male outlet to install so a suicide extension cord is unnecessary?
Yes they do - but it will be live and a "suicide" connector if you
don't physically shut off the
baxckfeed" breaker - which is what an interconnect lockout is for.

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 8:04:22 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:39 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 11:21:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

Between my meter and my house main panel is a disconnect, installed when they upgraded the panel.

Does that disconnect switch just the hots, or the neutral too?

Because if I pull that disconnect and am totally off the grid, I'm not going to endanger any linemen if I put a generator in my system, correctly or not.

But if the neutral is still connected, is there a risk?
In better than 90% of disconnects (I'd say likely 99+) the neutral is
NOT switched. If bthe neureal is not grounded there COULD be a danger
as the neutral COULD be above ground potential by enough to be
dangerous. Doesn't need to be high enough to kill - just to knock the
(somewhat careless) lineman off the ladder.

The neutral is grounded/earthed at the service side at the disconnect,
whether it's switched or unswitched. At least it is if it's installed
to code, inspected by the AHJ, by the power company before they turn
on power, etc. This is very basic. So, again, I see no way with the disconnect open that you can backfeed into the utility and shock a
lineman by doing anything on the customer side of the disconnect.
And that's true whether the neutral is switched or not.

That makes sense to me anyway.

I have 240 in my shed. If I connected a small generator there and backfed the house, turning off any nonessential breakers but running my wifes CPAP and one small fridge, would that be reasonably safe? Do they make a male outlet to install so a suicide extension cord is unnecessary?

It depends on your definition of reasonably safe. Under the NEC
it's a clear violation and for good reason. You're feeding
the house from a circuit serving the shed, with no interlock to
prevent the generator and the utility service from being connected
at the same time. Without an interlock in the form of an
Interlockit kit or transfer switch at the panel/disconnect,
you're relying on a human to always remember to open the disconnect
before connecting the generator, to make sure the disconnect
stays open, etc. The interlockit or transfer switch makes it
impossible for the generator and utility to be connected at the
same time, it's always one or the other. Without it, it's
easy to be sending power from the generator to the utility,
where it could kill a lineman or to have the power come back on
with the generator still connected.

I'd do it the code compliant way. Put an inlet near the panel
with either an Interlockit kit for the panel or a transfer
switch. You can either move the generator close when needed
or use a long extension cord. To be code compliant and to
work at all if the generator circuit being used has a gfci,
the generator needs to have it's neutral not connected to
ground, as discussed above. And I'm sure you know that the
generator can't be run in the shed for obvious reasons.

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 9:06:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 17:04:16 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:39 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 11:21:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:31:25 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

Between my meter and my house main panel is a disconnect, installed when they upgraded the panel.

Does that disconnect switch just the hots, or the neutral too?

Because if I pull that disconnect and am totally off the grid, I'm not going to endanger any linemen if I put a generator in my system, correctly or not.

But if the neutral is still connected, is there a risk?
In better than 90% of disconnects (I'd say likely 99+) the neutral is
NOT switched. If bthe neureal is not grounded there COULD be a danger
as the neutral COULD be above ground potential by enough to be
dangerous. Doesn't need to be high enough to kill - just to knock the
(somewhat careless) lineman off the ladder.

The neutral is grounded/earthed at the service side at the disconnect,
whether it's switched or unswitched. At least it is if it's installed
to code, inspected by the AHJ, by the power company before they turn
on power, etc. This is very basic. So, again, I see no way with the disconnect open that you can backfeed into the utility and shock a
lineman by doing anything on the customer side of the disconnect.
And that's true whether the neutral is switched or not.

That makes sense to me anyway.

I have 240 in my shed. If I connected a small generator there and backfed the house, turning off any nonessential breakers but running my wifes CPAP and one small fridge, would that be reasonably safe? Do they make a male outlet to install so a suicide extension cord is unnecessary?
Yes they do - but it will be live and a "suicide" connector if you
don't physically shut off the
baxckfeed" breaker - which is what an interconnect lockout is for.

In addition to what I pointed out in my post, that's a good point
too. An inlet without an interlock is live, or potentially live
all the time. You'd probably be as safer with a suicide cord.
At least the male contacts on that are only live when it's
plugged into the generator and the generator is running.

The code compliant, safe solution is an interlockit type kit
or transfer switch at the panel/disconnect and a circuit from
that to an inlet.

Thanks.

I understand better now.

In the past I've just run extension cords and will probably continue that, but luckily we've only had short outages, a few days. Something like Harvey or Irma would be different.