Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 7:11:30 PM UTC-5, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

yea, they work for a little while. Then it's back to cloudy again.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 17:16:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

yea, they work for a little while. Then it's back to cloudy again.

Thanks for the reply on practicality of the headlight
deoxidizers/polishers.

How long? 1 Year? 3 months?

I saw that in the referenced articles where there were two types:
- liquid that de'oxidizes (whatever that means, in reality, chemically)
- abrasive (from 2000 grit to 1000 grit) that polishes the surface

Are you speaking of both types?
Why not just put a "wax" on top after polishing?

Some said the wax protects them from yellowing again.
Others say that if such a wax existed, Toyota would have used it.

On 7/16/2017 8:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/


While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html


Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

Problem is not just oxidation but erosion by particulates like sand.
You can polish back with tooth paste but the kit might contain an
ingredient that also makes the lens scratch resistant. I know of
commercial acrylic materials that do this and I suspect some lens
manufactures use them and some don't.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:40:23 -0400, Frank wrote:

Problem is not just oxidation but erosion by particulates like sand.

I read all the pages I referenced where I find it hard to believe the
lenses were 'sandblasted'. These look "foggy" and "yellowed" and "cloudy"
but they're not sandblasted, and, for passenger vehicles in suburbia, I
can't fathom the 'erosion' argument.

Of course, in farm country of the dust bowl, I can see that, but then the
paint would be just as eroded, and maybe even more, which is not the case.

So I think this is only "sun" erosion, whether that's a chemical change in
the plastic (oxidation?) or if it's a physical effect (UV damage) I don't
know.

You can polish back with tooth paste but the kit might contain an
ingredient that also makes the lens scratch resistant.

The argument I saw essentially suggested "waxing" the lenses to protect
them from future sun damage, which makes sense only if the wax actually
works, since this is a see-through surface.

I don't see why anyone would want "scratch resistance" in a headlight which
isn't exposed to scratching in normal use (dust bowl in Kansas might be
different but this is suburbia).

I know of
commercial acrylic materials that do this and I suspect some lens
manufactures use them and some don't.

Here's my gut feeling (which can be completely wrong - so that's why I
ask):

1. I don't think it's sandblasting that did it - I think it was the sun.
2. I don't know if it's a physical change or a chemical change (or both).
3. I suspect if there was a "sealant", Toyota would have used it.
4. I suspect, as stated, polishing is the way to go (but I'm unsure).
5. I don't know if liquid "de-oxidizers" (whatever that means) work.

My leaning is toward a 1000 to 2000 grit wet abrasive plus wax when done,
but I don't know how long it will last nor how good it can get yet.

On 7/16/2017 9:09 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:40:23 -0400, Frank wrote:

Problem is not just oxidation but erosion by particulates like sand.

I read all the pages I referenced where I find it hard to believe the
lenses were 'sandblasted'. These look "foggy" and "yellowed" and "cloudy"
but they're not sandblasted, and, for passenger vehicles in suburbia, I
can't fathom the 'erosion' argument.

That would depends on where suburbia is. In the snowbelt, the roads are
salted and sanded and that can have an effect. Obviously that is only a
prtion of the problem but look at windshields after 60,000 miles.




So I think this is only "sun" erosion, whether that's a chemical change in
the plastic (oxidation?) or if it's a physical effect (UV damage) I don't
know.

I'd bet on UV. It is not kind to plastics.



I don't see why anyone would want "scratch resistance" in a headlight which
isn't exposed to scratching in normal use (dust bowl in Kansas might be
different but this is suburbia).

So you drive under 25 mph on perfectly clean roads. No bugs, no grit.




Here's my gut feeling (which can be completely wrong - so that's why I
ask):

1. I don't think it's sandblasting that did it - I think it was the sun.
2. I don't know if it's a physical change or a chemical change (or both).
3. I suspect if there was a "sealant", Toyota would have used it.
4. I suspect, as stated, polishing is the way to go (but I'm unsure).
5. I don't know if liquid "de-oxidizers" (whatever that means) work.

1. Mostly sun but could be pitting too
2. I'd think both
3. Agree, unless it wears off over time
4. Agree.
5. Never heard of them



My leaning is toward a 1000 to 2000 grit wet abrasive plus wax when done,
but I don't know how long it will last nor how good it can get yet.

I'd guess "good enough" and a few years.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 21:52:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

That would depends on where suburbia is. In the snowbelt, the roads are
salted and sanded and that can have an effect. Obviously that is only a
prtion of the problem but look at windshields after 60,000 miles.

Califonria suburbia.
The environment doesn't get any easier than California, except for the
full-time sun - there's almost no dirt, grit, salt, or cold to worry about.

I'd bet on UV. It is not kind to plastics.

I'd bet on the California UV also, as the plastic is "foggy".

On 7/16/2017 10:27 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 21:52:59 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

That would depends on where suburbia is. In the snowbelt, the roads
are salted and sanded and that can have an effect. Obviously that is
only a prtion of the problem but look at windshields after 60,000 miles.

Califonria suburbia. The environment doesn't get any easier than
California, except for the
full-time sun - there's almost no dirt, grit, salt, or cold to worry about.

I'd bet on UV. It is not kind to plastics.

I'd bet on the California UV also, as the plastic is "foggy".

There is always grit to worry about on the road.
I know the formula used for scratch resistant plastic but cannot divulge
it. It would basically be applied like a wax. That's why it may be in
a lens refinish kit but I do not know for sure. These finishes are also
used on plastic eyeglass lens which easily scratch. Composition I had
seen was for acrylic sheets.

Both acrylic and polycarbonate have good outdoor resistance but both are
much softer than glass and easily scratched and dulled. Years ago I had
a watch with plastic lens that I occasionally restored clarity with
tooth paste. Toothpaste contains particulate that will not scratch teeth
but is a mistake to use on plastic dentures as it could wear them. I
have an old dental bridge that once had a plastic coating. Now years
later after years of brushing it is gone and all metal.

On 7/16/2017 8:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?


Nothing will make them as good as new. My neighbor used a kit on his
kid's car. Based on his results I'd try it. Much better than the dull
they were, but not brand new. I don't know what brand he ised

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:56:27 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Nothing will make them as good as new.

That seems like pragmatic advice.
The news ones aren't all that expensive either.
But to a kid they are.

My neighbor used a kit on his kid's car. Based on his results I'd try it.

Thanks. It is, after all, only elbow grease and toothpaste, and a wax on
the plastic when done.

Much better than the dull they were, but not brand new.
I don't know what brand he ised

Thanks for that assessment.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:07:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." wrote:

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:31:57 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:07:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." wrote:

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.

This product?

http://amzn.to/2utIFqd


Did you also use the sealer?

http://amzn.to/2utBzSp

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:39:32 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

This product?

http://amzn.to/2utIFqd


Did you also use the sealer?

http://amzn.to/2utBzSp

Blue Magic (restorer/sealer) versus something from "3M"...

While the net contains anything you want it to contain, it's worth reading
this article of a guy who used the blue magic "restorer" solution.
http://productreviewratings.com/2009...ight-restorer/
"Based on my own results, I cannot recommend blue magic as a way
to completely restore fogged or scratched headlights. Everyone¢s
headlights are different, so I cannot say for sure that the product
won¢t work for some people. However, based on the time I spent with
and without a polishing drill, and comparing the results to the turtle
wax, this product was not worth the $7 bucks it cost me."
He concludes:
"The 3M Headlight Lens Restoration System requires a little extra
elbow grease and cash, but it is the only way you can be sure to
get those headlights looking clean and brand spanking new again!"

Looking up the 3M product...
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/5...ct-for-use.pdf

3M 39008 Headlight Lens Restoration System
https://www.amazon.com/3M-39008-Head.../dp/B001AIZ5HY

There seem to be 9 different 3M "kits" according to the 3M site:
http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-u...estoration-Kit

The MSDS is a multi-part MSDS due to the multiple components in the kit.
http://images.myautoproducts.com/ima...39008_MSDS.pdf
3M (TM) Headlight Lens Restoration System, PN 39008

3M(TM) Headlight Lens Polish PN 39005
* WATER 7732- 8-5 30 - 60%
* HYDROTREATED LIGHT PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64742-47-8 10 - 30%
* QUARTZ SILICA 14808-60-7 10 - 30%
* KAOLINITE 1318-74-7 3 - 7%
* ASSOCIATED MINERALS Mixture 1 - 5%
* OLEIC ACID 112-80-1 1 - 5%
* SOLVENT-REFINED HEAVY PARAFFINIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64741-88-4 1 - 5%
* MINERAL OIL 64741-89-5 0.5 - 1.5%
* GLYCERIN 56-81-5 0.5 - 1.5%
* POLY(OXYETHYLENE)SORBITAN MONOSTEARATE 9005-67-8 0.1 - 1.0%

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 01:39:32 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:31:57 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:07:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." wrote:

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.

This product?

http://amzn.to/2utIFqd


Yes.

Did you also use the sealer?

http://amzn.to/2utBzSp

No.
The lenses were still looking good a couple years later.
The cars were 16 and 10 years old when I used it in 2011.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:31:57 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

You have to try it yourself. I used Blue Magic on 2 cars and it cleared up fogging,
yellowing and very minor scratches. It cost about 6 bucks for enough to for a dozen cars.
Just pour a bit on a cotton rag - I like to use old T-shirts - add a minute or two of elbow
grease and hose it off. Or spray some Windex and use a rag to clean the residue.
The lenses won't look new, because it won't take out pits and deep scratches.
But it's a big improvement.

Thanks for that specific pointer to "Blue Magic".

A quick search shows "Blue Magic" seems to be a line of "things" but
specifically two related things:

1. Blue Magic 725CD-06 Headlight Lens Restorer - 8 oz
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Magic-72.../dp/B001PH0WUU

2. Blue Magic 730-6 Headlight Lens Sealer - 8 oz.
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Magic-73.../dp/B0051PJWQW

A. Here is the Blue Magic "restorer" MSDS:
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/bl...lens_restorer/
Aluminium Oxide, Non-Fibrous (50 - 70%)
Distillates, Hydrotreated Light (5 - 10%)
Ammonium Hydroxide, Buffer Solution (1 - 5%)
Neodol 23-6.5E (1 - 5%) ==== what is that?
Argilla (1 - 5%) ==== what is that?
Pluronic F 98 (1 - 5%) ==== what is that?
Acrylates Copolymer (1%) === hmmmm... what is this?
CI 77007 (1%) ===== CI?

B. Here is the Blue Magic "sealer" MSDS:
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/bl...t_lens_sealer/
Hydrotreated Light Distillate (75.0 ¡V 85.0%)
Polydimethylsiloxane (18.0 ¡V 28.0 %) == ?

I have some homework to do but thanks for the pointer since this "Blue
Magic" "sealer" and "restorer" seem to be ubiquitous based on the result of
a quick search.

On 7/16/2017 9:42 PM, Danny D. wrote:
CI 77007

I looked over what you posted and you have a mixture of abrasives and
surfactants and a bluish coloring agent.

Blue tint is often added to plastics to make them look less yellow but
does not improve brightness. Laundry detergents often contain bluing.

The polydimethylsiloxane might improve scratch resistance. It is also
water repellent.

I'm a retired chemist but still do consulting and write a lot of MSDS's,
now just called Safety Data Sheets, SDS's, meeting Globally Harmonized
System requirements.

It is not necessary to divulge all ingredients except those mandated by
the EPA but all hazards must be disclosed. The Blue Magic SDS discloses
all ingredients and hazards but is outdated and not quite GHS compliant.
It is not particularly hazardous and probably does not require the new
hazard symbols.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:42:33 -0400, Frank wrote:

I looked over what you posted and you have a mixture of abrasives and
surfactants and a bluish coloring agent.

Blue tint is often added to plastics to make them look less yellow but
does not improve brightness. Laundry detergents often contain bluing.

The polydimethylsiloxane might improve scratch resistance. It is also
water repellent.

Thanks for looking over the chemistry of the "blue magic" ingredients of
the lens restorer and protective seal.

I, for one, do not believe in "magic" elixers, so, I suspect they all have
essentially the same ingredients so looking at the Blue Magic is probably
almost as good as looking at any other.

While I had never heard of these ingredients below, and while they're in
minute quantities (hence, they may not be meaningful), I did look them up
so I write a summary for the rest of the team to benefit from.

CI 77007 seems to be a deep blue pigment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CI_77007
http://cosmetics.specialchem.com/inci/ci-77007

Pluronic F seems to have a bunch of numbers after the F, as shown here
https://worldaccount.basf.com/wa/NAF...Brand/pluronic
where the "Pluronic" is a registered name indicated by "(R)".
[quote=BASF]
The Pluronic® types are block copolymers based on ethylene oxide
and propylene oxide. They can function as antifoaming agents,
wetting agents, dispersants, thickeners, and emulsifiers."

Argilla seems to be my old friend Bentonite, of which I have plenty that a
well driller gave me years ago for poison oak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentone_34
"CAS No. 1340-68-7(Bentone)" with synonyms of
arcilla blanca; argilla alba as described here
http://www.guidechem.com/cas-134/1340-68-7.html
http://www.lookchem.com/cas-134/1340-68-7.html

The Argilla (aka Bentone) is used to thicken greases:
http://www.ikvlubricants.com/grease-...es-gels-pastes

Neodol seems to be an ALCOHOL ETHOXYLATE surfactant/emulsifier whose
precise mix of chemicals depends on the number after the word.
http://s08.static-shell.com/content/...eodol-25-5.pdf
Like the "Pluronic F" stuff, there are a billion mixes made by Shell.
http://www.surfachem.com/neodol-91-6
where it's described as a short-chain (C9-C11) alcohol with 6 moles of
ethylene oxide.

So those 4 mystery ingredients (admittedly in small quantities) are
1. blue pigment (CI 77007)
2. surfactants/emulsifiers (Pluronic F & Neodol)
3. thickening agent (Argilla)

Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

No, but what do you want for five bucks?
Buy whatever kit your FLAPS has on sale and try it. It'll be a big
improvement.

Will it be any bigger than Ajax cleanser slurry on a quarter sheet sander pad?
Dunno, but for five bucks I'd try it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 7/16/2017 7:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/


While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html


Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

50 bucks for both, new with bulbs. I know what I'd do. Be sure to
check the shipping costs. Since the kid is college bound give him/her
the tools and see if they can change them without help.
http://www.discountbodyparts.com/cat...?dbpcid=gglpla

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:58:29 -0500, My 2 Cents wrote:

50 bucks for both, new with bulbs. I know what I'd do. Be sure to
check the shipping costs. Since the kid is college bound give him/her
the tools and see if they can change them without help.
http://www.discountbodyparts.com/cat...?dbpcid=gglpla

The web site has the right price $50 (PN SET-20-5219-00) but it doesn't say
it fits the 4-cyl "LE" Camry.

I called 1-888-346-5511x1 and gave them the part number above and they said
that's $25 each lens for a Corolla. A Camry PN is T100121 (passenger side)
$63.44 each lens + shipping + tax.

Still, less than 100 bucks (taxed/shipped, but I'm guessing) is not too bad
for an auto part - but a bit high for a kid with no job other than to be a
full-time student who is a junior and away from home for the first time,
getting settled, 200 miles from her parents.

On 7/16/2017 10:28 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:58:29 -0500, My 2 Cents wrote:

50 bucks for both, new with bulbs. I know what I'd do. Be sure
to check the shipping costs. Since the kid is college bound give
him/her the tools and see if they can change them without help.
http://www.discountbodyparts.com/cat...?dbpcid=gglpla


The web site has the right price $50 (PN SET-20-5219-00) but it doesn't say
it fits the 4-cyl "LE" Camry.

I called 1-888-346-5511x1 and gave them the part number above and they said
that's $25 each lens for a Corolla. A Camry PN is T100121 (passenger side)
$63.44 each lens + shipping + tax.
Still, less than 100 bucks (taxed/shipped, but I'm guessing) is not too bad
for an auto part - but a bit high for a kid with no job other than to be a
full-time student who is a junior and away from home for the first time,
getting settled, 200 miles from her parents.


Its a matter of perspective. As a kid in school, I'd go with a
polish/restoration kit As an adult with a decent job I'd go with new
lenses. As an adult with a very good income I'd opt for a new car.

On 7/16/17 8:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing
chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over
time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/


While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html


Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that
question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing
chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

I used this kit from Sylvania on my 2008 Ford. It uses 3 grades of
sandpaper and 2 liquids. Kit has everything you need.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...1&prefZC=06032

There is a YouTube video showing how to use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWjS...hrffl3&index=1

It's only been 4 months now but the my lights look great.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:04:45 -0400, Retired wrote:

On 7/16/17 8:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing
chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over
time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/


While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html


Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that
question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing
chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

I used this kit from Sylvania on my 2008 Ford. It uses 3 grades of
sandpaper and 2 liquids. Kit has everything you need.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...1&prefZC=06032

There is a YouTube video showing how to use it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWjS...hrffl3&index=1

It's only been 4 months now but the my lights look great.
I've used several with excellent but short term results. They look
like new for about 5 months-8 months, then go bad again. The sealer
makes 'em last a little longer

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 22:49:42 -0400, wrote:

It's only been 4 months now but the my lights look great.
I've used several with excellent but short term results. They look
like new for about 5 months-8 months, then go bad again. The sealer
makes 'em last a little longer

After having looked at the ingredients, all contain a grit, particularly
"aluminum oxide".

Anyone know where to get a free handful of "aluminum oxide" grit?

Given the worst thing that can happen is we ruin what is already ruined, it
may be worth experimenting with some of that bentonite clay I got from a
well driller for use in the heavy poison oak.

I'm thinking a few sheets of 1000 grit to 2000 grit wet sandpaper.
Plus a handful of free bentonite well-driller's clay.
Plus free college-aged elbow grease and free water from the hose.

The "sealer" seems to be Polydimethylsiloxane (aka dimethicone).
It's in shampoo/conditioner to make hair "slippery and shiny".
And in Rain-X. Silly putty too. Silicone grease. All says Wikipedia anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydimethylsiloxane

So maybe a handful of bentonite (which I have) or aluminum oxide (if I can
find it) plus water and fine-grit sandpaper will polish - and - maybe hair
conditioner or Rain-X will seal it?

Where can we get a handful of free "aluminum oxide" & "dimethicone"?

On 7/16/2017 8:30 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Where can we get a handful of free "aluminum oxide" & "dimethicone"?

Try polishing the lights with some toothpaste or BonAmi polishing cleanser.

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 8:11:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?


Try DEET bugspray and newspaper.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 00:07:29 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

Danny,

My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.

I didn't have to do any work :-|

Sam's Club Headlight Renewal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RyTa2fVJg

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny,

My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.

I didn't have to do any work :-|

Sam's Club Headlight Renewal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RyTa2fVJg

You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny,

My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.

I didn't have to do any work :-|

Sam's Club Headlight Renewal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RyTa2fVJg

You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!

IIRC, Sam's adds a clear UV protection coating after the finish. Not
sure any DIY kits have that included. Sam's did the work, a warranty
and I stayed lazy :-)

On 7/17/17 12:15 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny,

My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.

I didn't have to do any work :-|

Sam's Club Headlight Renewal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RyTa2fVJg

You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!

IIRC, Sam's adds a clear UV protection coating after the finish. *Not
sure any DIY kits have that included*. Sam's did the work, a warranty
and I stayed lazy :-)

$30 to have it done is nice. However the Sylvania $20 kit does include
UV block.

Kit contents:

1 oz. Surface Activator
1/2 oz. Clarifying Compound
1 oz. UV Block Clear Coat
Waterproof Premium Sandpaper (400, 1000 & 2000 grit)
Applicator and Polish Cloths
Vinyl Glove

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:39:00 -0400, Retired wrote:

On 7/17/17 12:15 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:16:15 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny,

My wife took our cars to Sam's Club Auto Center to have the headlights
restored, last year. Cost ~$30 and has a 5 year warranty. They still
look great. Living in the desert with blowing sand and UV damage.

I didn't have to do any work :-|

Sam's Club Headlight Renewal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9RyTa2fVJg

You know your huckleberries, so I trust your opinion.
That means the stuff works.
And $15/headlight is in this kid's budget!
Thanks!

IIRC, Sam's adds a clear UV protection coating after the finish. *Not
sure any DIY kits have that included*. Sam's did the work, a warranty
and I stayed lazy :-)

$30 to have it done is nice. However the Sylvania $20 kit does include
UV block.

Kit contents:

1 oz. Surface Activator
1/2 oz. Clarifying Compound
1 oz. UV Block Clear Coat
Waterproof Premium Sandpaper (400, 1000 & 2000 grit)
Applicator and Polish Cloths
Vinyl Glove

Yeah butt, DIY kits don't give a warranty for labor. Sam's gives five
year warranty. Total $30 and no labor at my house.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:39:00 -0400, Retired wrote:

$30 to have it done is nice. However the Sylvania $20 kit does include
UV block.

Kit contents:

1 oz. Surface Activator
1/2 oz. Clarifying Compound
1 oz. UV Block Clear Coat
Waterproof Premium Sandpaper (400, 1000 & 2000 grit)
Applicator and Polish Cloths
Vinyl Glove

I like to know how things work, since there's usually no magic involved.
Looking up the Sylvania kit, is this the combination you are talking about?
http://www.osram-americas.com/en-us/...ation-kit.aspx

$18 SYLVANIA Headlight Restoration Kit
https://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-HRK-.../dp/B00429NKWK

$12 SYLVANIA Headlight Restoration UV Block Clear Coat, 1 fl. oz.
https://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-HRK-...01KIVYE6G?th=1

It's a multipart where this has some of the permutations & combinations:
https://www.opticatonline.com/part/s...estoration-kit

It seems (almost?) impossible to find the MSDS for this stuff online, so I
can't tell you what's in it yet. I have a call open to Sylvania at
1.800.729.3777 to ask them to email them to me though.

I realize I take a different approach than almost everyone here in that I
don't stay on the same well-worn trails that everyone else does. To me,
product solutions just commodities that are just basic chemicals.

The work is in finding out what the chemicals are, and in figuring out what
they do that matters - which is the fun part.

So far, it seems that the uv block is just simethicone (silicone) and the
restoration part is just aluminum oxide (grit) but that's only a basic
assumption based on the 3M results.

I'll let you know what Sylvania comes up with as their "magic" ingredients.

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 8:11:30 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

Why is that the standard? I haven't seen anyone claiming that they
will restore them to be indistinguishable from new. I used a kit,
I think it was 3M, worked great. It included an attachment for
a drill with pads. There was a huge improvement,
I was very happy, but no way I'd say they were indistinguishable from
new. It lasts several years, but obviously the process continues.
Same thing will happen with new ones. The choice is up to you, but
I'm sure you're not going to find new ones for $10 which is about
the cost of the polishing kit. And the lenses were poly or similar,
not glass (does anyone still use that?), so the part about it not
working on anything but glass is BS.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:51:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

Why is that the standard?

That's a fair question. AFAIK, there are only three options:
1. Leave them yellowed (free)
2. Buy new headlight lenses (~$120 for the pair at discount)
3. Polish them up (~$30 for the pair at Sams Club or ~$30 for chemicals)

I haven't seen anyone claiming that they
will restore them to be indistinguishable from new.

Maybe I had simply *assumed* that they would be indistinguishable from new.
Can someone who has done it tell us how they compared to brand new?

I used a kit, I think it was 3M, worked great.

Three kits have been mentioned most he
1. 3M
2. Sylvania
3. Blue Magic

Most kits seem to have two parts:
A. The stripper
B. The sealer

It included an attachment for
a drill with pads. There was a huge improvement,
I was very happy, but no way I'd say they were indistinguishable from
new.

This is good to know because it turns out that the original owner called
today when we asked about some of the paperwork saying they had in their
garage a brand new unused driver side headlight lens, still in the box,
which they'd give the kid for free.

So now we have only one lens to "match" to the driver side.

It lasts several years, but obviously the process continues.

There is an open question as to whether the erosion process is
*accelerated* by the polishing, or if it's the same process, but starting
fresh.

Same thing will happen with new ones. The choice is up to you, but
I'm sure you're not going to find new ones for $10 which is about
the cost of the polishing kit.

Most kits seemed to come out at around $30 for the two components.
But I didn't look all that hard yet on price 'cuz I'm just looking at
chemicals right now.

And the lenses were poly or similar,
not glass (does anyone still use that?), so the part about it not
working on anything but glass is BS.

I agree. Glass isn't the problem here, at least not with the Camry.

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 4:26:11 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:51:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

Why is that the standard?

That's a fair question. AFAIK, there are only three options:
1. Leave them yellowed (free)
2. Buy new headlight lenses (~$120 for the pair at discount)

Since you like to micro analyze, are those OEM lenses from the
dealer? Ones that are OEM quality from one of the OEM suppliers?
Ones that are from some aftermarket company and supply chain that
at least has some credibility? Or ones on Ebay claiming to be of
some of the above pedigree? Or Chinese crap from China?


3. Polish them up (~$30 for the pair at Sams Club or ~$30 for chemicals)


I did mine for ~$10 to $15, think it was the 3M kit, Walmart.



I haven't seen anyone claiming that they
will restore them to be indistinguishable from new.

Maybe I had simply *assumed* that they would be indistinguishable from new.
Can someone who has done it tell us how they compared to brand new?


They come out looking good, clear, well worth it, but no way you'd think they
were new ones.



I used a kit, I think it was 3M, worked great.

Three kits have been mentioned most he
1. 3M
2. Sylvania
3. Blue Magic

Most kits seem to have two parts:
A. The stripper
B. The sealer

It included an attachment for
a drill with pads. There was a huge improvement,
I was very happy, but no way I'd say they were indistinguishable from
new.

This is good to know because it turns out that the original owner called
today when we asked about some of the paperwork saying they had in their
garage a brand new unused driver side headlight lens, still in the box,
which they'd give the kid for free.

So now we have only one lens to "match" to the driver side.


Well, that changes the equation.



It lasts several years, but obviously the process continues.

There is an open question as to whether the erosion process is
*accelerated* by the polishing, or if it's the same process, but starting
fresh.


Who cares? They look good again for at least several years, at least
mine did. How long is your kid going to have the car? Plus I would
think you could do it a second time.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:43:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:
Since you like to micro analyze, are those OEM lenses from the
dealer?

I have no idea.

I did mine for ~$10 to $15, think it was the 3M kit, Walmart.

Lots of votes for the 3M kit over the Sylvania and Blue Magic.

They come out looking good, clear, well worth it, but no way you'd think they
were new ones.

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense.

Who cares? They look good again for at least several years, at least
mine did. How long is your kid going to have the car? Plus I would
think you could do it a second time.

It's not my kid, but we're a close-knit family (Italians & Jews mostly,
with a few Arabs sprinkled about just to keep the conversation salty).

She's going to be a junior, having just graduated from a 2-year school
(they don't even give AA degrees anymore, I'm told) so it's her first year
at a 4-year college, where she's going to live off campus so she needs a
car.

How long will she own it?
Dunno. I owned my first car for about a decade and it was a decade old when
I got it, so, I assume she'll own it for a decade. Besides, my first car
was a Chrysler and hers is a Toyota. Two different beasts in terms of
longevity.

Anyway, I think we have pretty good answers to the questions.
a. It won't look like new but it will look pretty good
b. You have to sand and seal (not just sand)
c. The 3M kit gets the most votes (Sylvania & Blue Magic in second)
d. The main ingredient is grit with clearcoat being the sealer
e. Don't use electric tools - just use elbow grease

Danny D. wrote:
Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

We bought for a college kid an older Toyota Camry of the early 2002-2006
model vintage where the polycarbonate on the headlights oxidized over time
to a cloudy yellowed appearance (and the speaker covers on the rear deck
are both burned off by sunlight).

The kid has two options, of course, which is replace the oxidized
headlights altogether, or try those "toothpaste & sandpaper" deoxidizing
remedies on the net, which 'sound' maybe a bit too good to be true.
http://www.jpauleytoyota.com/blog/ho...ights-at-home/

While the pictures by the headlight-polishing companies are always
impressive
http://xfactorae.com

Yet, this article says that abrasives will only work on "glass" lenses.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/THE-TRUTH-AB...0945494/g.html

Only someone with actual experience would know the answer to that question.

Overall, do those yellowed polycarbonate headlight deoxidizing chemicals or
1600-grit polishing solutions actually work well enough to be
indistinguishable from new?

If so, which ones do you have the best experience with on Toyota
headlights?

Easy to repair,
Get a 3M headlight kit
Either remove the light units or tape around them to protect the body paint.
Wet down and wash the grit off the lights. Then use the coarse paper and
keep the lens wet and sand until the yellow and scratches are gone.
Switch to the finer paper and sand until the larger scratches are gone,
switch to the last grit and keep going until you get to the polishing step.

NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).

This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic. The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:26:14 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).

Thanks for that suggestion as this is the first suggestion, I think, for an
automotive "2-part clear" as the protective coating.

Searching, is this what you mean?
http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spr...clearcoat.aspx

Or maybe this?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...125/99984738-P

Or, maybe more likely this?
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/ur...clearcoat.aspx

This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic.

Does the irony of that statement ring true for you as it does for me?

The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.

A lot of people are voting for the 3M kit components.
Fewer for Sylvania and Blue Magic.

Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:26:14 -0400, Steve W. wrote:

NOW to keep the lights looking like new for a long time, spray them with
automotive 2part clear (you can buy it in a spray can or have a bo0dy
shop give them a spritz).

Thanks for that suggestion as this is the first suggestion, I think, for an
automotive "2-part clear" as the protective coating.

Searching, is this what you mean?
http://www.automotivetouchup.com/spr...clearcoat.aspx

Or maybe this?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...125/99984738-P

Or, maybe more likely this?
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/ur...clearcoat.aspx

This is how I deal with the yellowed/cruddy ones. They yellow due to the
UV from the sun, it kills the protective coating on the plastic.

Does the irony of that statement ring true for you as it does for me?

The 2
part clear when you're done will restore that plus it will seal the plastic.
I use bulk supplies but the 3M kit includes enough to do a couple sets
of lights and it's good stuff. DON'T use a high speed drill with it, you
can burn the surface of the light.

A lot of people are voting for the 3M kit components.
Fewer for Sylvania and Blue Magic.

The 3M kit works very well. NONE of the chemical only kit's work. I've
done hundreds of headlights using the sand, polish, clear coat method.

The UV, age and other chemicals just destroy the lights. The plastics
have gotten better but some brands just seem to turn to crap faster.

https://repaintsupply.com/spraymax-3...sol-p3685.html
is a true 2 part clear in a spray can, if you don't have a spray gun.

or if you have a spray gun and know how to use it
https://www.automotivetouchup.com/ur...clearcoat.aspx
would work as well.

--
Steve W.