I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...s-1133668-.htm

On 6/3/2017 12:44 PM, Raymond wrote:
I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet
has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground
wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring


Old wiring can be hit or miss. Black is usually the hot and the other
neutral. Use a tester to be sure.

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 12:44:05 PM UTC-4, Raymond wrote:
I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...s-1133668-.htm

I'd test it using a meter or test light. Between one wire and a ground
point, eg cold water pipe, you should have 120V. That is the hot.
The other may show some lesser voltage. The hot wire goes to the
receptacle side with the smaller opening, typically brass screw on
that side too.

You could also pull off the cover on the panel and see where the reds
and blacks land there.

In article ,
Raymond m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring

Raymond-

I assume you are in the U.S., working with a 120 Volt outlet. My first
thought would be that Black was hot and Red was neutral. But because of
the age of your wiring, you can not be sure without performing some kind
of test or looking at which wire is connected to the fuse at the fuse
box.

There is a neon test light available, made with a neon bulb in series
with a high value ballast resistor. Its two "test leads" would normally
be plugged into an outlet. The neon bulb would light if there was power
in the outlet. You can also use such a test light to see which of the
outlet's wires is hot. You hold one of the two test leads in your hand,
and touch the other lead to one of the wires. The hot wire will cause
the neon bulb to glow dimly.
Reference:
http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/neon_circuit_testers.htm

In modern outlet wiring, the hot wire is connected to the brass-colored
terminal (Narrow Slot). The neutral wire is connected to the
silver-colored terminal (Wide Slot).

Fred

Fred McKenzie
Sat, 03
Jun 2017 17:31:58 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

In article ,
Raymond m
wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My
outlet has 2 wires a red and black one what side does each go to
I have no ground wire. The house is probably 80 years old with
old wiring

Raymond-

I assume you are in the U.S., working with a 120 Volt outlet. My
first thought would be that Black was hot and Red was neutral.
But because of the age of your wiring, you can not be sure without
performing some kind of test or looking at which wire is connected
to the fuse at the fuse box.

There is a neon test light available, made with a neon bulb in
series with a high value ballast resistor. Its two "test leads"
would normally be plugged into an outlet. The neon bulb would
light if there was power in the outlet. You can also use such a
test light to see which of the outlet's wires is hot. You hold
one of the two test leads in your hand, and touch the other lead
to one of the wires. The hot wire will cause the neon bulb to
glow dimly. Reference:
http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/neon_circuit_testers.htm

Why not just invest in a 'ticker' (non contact voltage tester)
instead? They aren't that expensive and will quickly tell you which
wire is your 'hot' one vs the neutral one. Without any possible risk
to yourself in the process.

Get it near the red wire if it turns green and beeps, you have
voltage present. Likewise with your black wire. If both wires causes
it to beep, you might be dealing with a 240volt circuit, use a
multimeter to confirm this.

Do not attempt to test the wires if they're beside each other,
you'll get a false reading. You should instead opt to test at each
side of the outlet near the screws where the wires connect, instead.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Too...1SEN/100661787


--
Nope, I can't go to hell.
Satan still has a restraining order against me.
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

Diesel
news:XnsA78A3873E7B3FHT1@uX38qky0spPb6I8v9zTx9lokl 86L2RvRCAa160X4J.h7
8EHa89mg4767 Sun, 04 Jun 2017 09:23:06 GMT in alt.home.repair,
wrote:

Get it near the red wire if it turns green and beeps, you have
voltage present. Likewise with your black wire. If both wires
causes it to beep, you might be dealing with a 240volt circuit,
use a multimeter to confirm this.

Oops. turns red. Sorry.



--
Nope, I can't go to hell.
Satan still has a restraining order against me.
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 16:44:02 GMT, Raymond m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring

Why are you replacing the receptacle? Does the old receptacle not firmly hold a plug in it, or are you
changing it so it will accommodate a newer plug with a ground? If the latter, by code you must add a ground
wire. That could get difficult and/or expensive for the novice very quickly.

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 2:01:08 PM UTC-4, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 16:44:02 GMT, Raymond m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring

Why are you replacing the receptacle? Does the old receptacle not firmly hold a plug in it, or are you
changing it so it will accommodate a newer plug with a ground? If the latter, by code you must add a ground
wire. That could get difficult and/or expensive for the novice very quickly.

That's not true. It's code compliant to replace an old two wire,
ungrounded receptacle with a 3 wire grounded type receptacle as long
as it's protected by an upstream GFCI and marked as "GFCI protected,
no eqpt ground".

On 6/3/2017 2:09 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 2:01:08 PM UTC-4, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 16:44:02 GMT, Raymond m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring
Why are you replacing the receptacle? Does the old receptacle not firmly hold a plug in it, or are you
changing it so it will accommodate a newer plug with a ground? If the latter, by code you must add a ground
wire. That could get difficult and/or expensive for the novice very quickly.
That's not true. It's code compliant to replace an old two wire,
ungrounded receptacle with a 3 wire grounded type receptacle as long
as it's protected by an upstream GFCI and marked as "GFCI protected,
no eqpt ground".


Nonsense, just bond the neutral to the ground. It all lands on the neutral/ground buss in the panel anyway.

Yah, I know, code requires a separate ground wire but that's just a distinction without a difference.

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 9:43:43 AM UTC-4, Megg A. Hertz wrote:
On 6/3/2017 2:09 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 2:01:08 PM UTC-4, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 16:44:02 GMT, Raymond m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring
Why are you replacing the receptacle? Does the old receptacle not firmly hold a plug in it, or are you
changing it so it will accommodate a newer plug with a ground? If the latter, by code you must add a ground
wire. That could get difficult and/or expensive for the novice very quickly.
That's not true. It's code compliant to replace an old two wire,
ungrounded receptacle with a 3 wire grounded type receptacle as long
as it's protected by an upstream GFCI and marked as "GFCI protected,
no eqpt ground".


Nonsense, just bond the neutral to the ground. It all lands on the neutral/ground buss in the panel anyway.

Yah, I know, code requires a separate ground wire but that's just a distinction without a difference.

There are real and significant differences, some of which have been discussed here. And
as I just pointed out, in this application code doesn't require a separate ground, a gfci is permissible. Too cheap to buy one gfci for a circuit?

On 6/4/2017 5:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 9:43:43 AM UTC-4, Megg A. Hertz wrote:
On 6/3/2017 2:09 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 2:01:08 PM UTC-4, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 16:44:02 GMT, Raymond m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring
Why are you replacing the receptacle? Does the old receptacle not firmly hold a plug in it, or are you
changing it so it will accommodate a newer plug with a ground? If the latter, by code you must add a ground
wire. That could get difficult and/or expensive for the novice very quickly.
That's not true. It's code compliant to replace an old two wire,
ungrounded receptacle with a 3 wire grounded type receptacle as long
as it's protected by an upstream GFCI and marked as "GFCI protected,
no eqpt ground".

Nonsense, just bond the neutral to the ground. It all lands on the neutral/ground buss in the panel anyway.

Yah, I know, code requires a separate ground wire but that's just a distinction without a difference.
There are real and significant differences, some of which have been discussed here. And
as I just pointed out, in this application code doesn't require a separate ground, a gfci is permissible. Too cheap to buy one gfci for a circuit?


Why waste hundreds of feet of copper when a 1 inch jumper from neutral to ground screw can solve the problem? A 30-40 amp stove or dryer doesn't need a separate ground so neither does a 20 amp outlet.

..


Nonsense, just bond the neutral to the ground. It all lands on the neutral/ground buss in the panel anyway.



bad advice


if your combined ground /neutral wire should develop an open fault, you will apply 120V onto the frame of the appliance.

so you will cause the exact danger the ground is supposed to protect against.

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 16:44:02 GMT, Raymond
m wrote:

I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring

Without knowing where you are, this may be hard to answer. In the UK,
black was neutral 80 years ago. Red was 230v

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 12:44:05 PM UTC-4, Raymond wrote:
I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring


After reading the suggestions in the other posts, if you are able to determine which wire is which,
e.g. black is hot, red is neutral, you should then mark the last inch or so of the red wire with
white electrical tape or white paint. Do this at both ends. This is a common practice used to
avoid confusion for those that come along later or even you if you disconnect the wires in
the future and forget where they go, especially in the panel where you might remove
multiple wires at the same time.

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 05:57:52 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 12:44:05 PM UTC-4, Raymond wrote:
I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring


After reading the suggestions in the other posts, if you are able to determine which wire is which,
e.g. black is hot, red is neutral, you should then mark the last inch or so of the red wire with
white electrical tape or white paint. Do this at both ends. This is a common practice used to
avoid confusion for those that come along later or even you if you disconnect the wires in
the future and forget where they go, especially in the panel where you might remove
multiple wires at the same time.

If it turns out the OP is in UK, make that blue ;-)

On 6/3/2017 9:44 AM, Raymond wrote:
I have a older outlet that I'm replacing with a newer style. My outlet has 2
wires a red and black one what side does each go to I have no ground wire. The
house is probably 80 years old with old wiring


Stick the black one up yer ass and whistle Dixie.