SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers and
Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit from it???
Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to Financial Organizations;
unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry for which it
should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do! But solar and Electric
companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self sufficiency.

On 5/18/2017 1:44 PM, Tony944 wrote:
*SOLAR POWER*
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers and
Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit from
it???
Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to Financial
Organizations;
unless you purchase it out right!!
*Warning The Kicker*
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry for
which it
should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do! But solar and
Electric
companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self
sufficiency.

Anyone in this news group that knows anything about a home know that
seldom does anything last 20 years without replacement or major repairs.
All that payback will go down the drain then.

On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:44:57 -0700, "Tony944"
wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers and
Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit from it???
Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to Financial Organizations;
unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry for which it
should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do! But solar and Electric
companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self sufficiency.

This is more than a simple "$20" circuit. You could certainly clock
the inverter for much less than that but the rub comes in with
transfer equipment that will satisfy the PoCo and be NEC compliant.
You will also need some kind of automatic load management unless you
are right there managing the load. It is going to take a lot of solar
to deal with the locked rotor of an HVAC compressor, especially if the
water heater or dryer is going.

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 3:07:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:44:57 -0700, "Tony944"
wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers and
Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit from it???
Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to Financial Organizations;
unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry for which it
should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do! But solar and Electric
companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self sufficiency.

This is more than a simple "$20" circuit. You could certainly clock
the inverter for much less than that but the rub comes in with
transfer equipment that will satisfy the PoCo and be NEC compliant.
You will also need some kind of automatic load management unless you
are right there managing the load. It is going to take a lot of solar
to deal with the locked rotor of an HVAC compressor, especially if the
water heater or dryer is going.

Agree, it's not a $20 solution. The insurmountable problem is that
when the grid goes down, if you were to rely on solar, what happens
when a cloud goes by? Would customers want a system that can only
supply backup power in the day, with enough sun and would they tolerate
what happens when clouds go by? Would they put up with brownouts
or total power cut out? Would there equipment? And it's no solution
at night. That's why companies installing solar will tell you
that with no grid, no batteries, you have no power to the whole
house and why the eqpt is designed that way. In the other thread,
Diesel did show an example of an inverter that will supply one
isolated outlet with power without the grid. I can see that,
for use for charging cell phones, charging a sump pump battery, etc.

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 1:44:55 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
SOLAR POWER

What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy
installers and

Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to
know!!!

Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose
actually benefit from it???

Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to
Financial Organizations;

unless you purchase it out right!!

Warning The Kicker

You can not have any power: if your power line is
down

In other words the Electricity must be on in order to
have

power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�

What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from


You can get power from it, you just can't power your house with
it without the grid or a battery bank. What happens with
a passing cloud? rainshower? cloudy day? With the grid,
you're OK, without it you'll have brownouts or total shutdown,
depending on the loads and sunshine.

The grid is actually your friend if you have solar. It supplies
power when the clouds come by and at night. If it's bright and
you aren't using all of the output, which would probably be a
lot of the time, it's generating electric into the grid that
THEY PAY YOU FOR.

"Tony944"
Thu, 18 May 2017
17:44:57 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers
and Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit
from it??? Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to
Financial Organizations; unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry
for which it should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do!
But solar and Electric companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self
sufficiency.

Shhh. don't tell the off grid systems they aren't supposed to work, or
the ones that are on the grid but also have a battery bank for backup.
For some silly reason, neither of them go dark if the grid isn't
available. Yes, the last line was sarcastic.




--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

Thu, 18 May 2017 19:07:33 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:44:57 -0700, "Tony944"
wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers
and Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit
from it??? Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to
Financial Organizations; unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry
for which it should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do!
But solar and Electric companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self
sufficiency.

This is more than a simple "$20" circuit. You could certainly
clock the inverter for much less than that but the rub comes in
with transfer equipment that will satisfy the PoCo and be NEC
compliant. You will also need some kind of automatic load
management unless you are right there managing the load. It is
going to take a lot of solar to deal with the locked rotor of an
HVAC compressor, especially if the water heater or dryer is going.

Especially if you don't use gas appliances and force everything to
run on solar.




--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On Thu, 18 May 2017 16:37:20 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 3:07:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:44:57 -0700, "Tony944"
wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers and
Solar company dont tell you and dont want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit from it???
Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to Financial Organizations;
unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€�
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry for which it
should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do! But solar and Electric
companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self sufficiency.

This is more than a simple "$20" circuit. You could certainly clock
the inverter for much less than that but the rub comes in with
transfer equipment that will satisfy the PoCo and be NEC compliant.
You will also need some kind of automatic load management unless you
are right there managing the load. It is going to take a lot of solar
to deal with the locked rotor of an HVAC compressor, especially if the
water heater or dryer is going.

Agree, it's not a $20 solution. The insurmountable problem is that
when the grid goes down, if you were to rely on solar, what happens
when a cloud goes by? Would customers want a system that can only
supply backup power in the day, with enough sun and would they tolerate
what happens when clouds go by? Would they put up with brownouts
or total power cut out? Would there equipment? And it's no solution
at night. That's why companies installing solar will tell you
that with no grid, no batteries, you have no power to the whole
house and why the eqpt is designed that way. In the other thread,
Diesel did show an example of an inverter that will supply one
isolated outlet with power without the grid. I can see that,
for use for charging cell phones, charging a sump pump battery, etc.

I can see it working somewhat with the right load management software
and carefully isolated loads that get priority when it is browning out
so to speak. Wide mouth inverters can handle the change in solar
output and sustain the voltage but the current it can provide will
drop. You would still want a little battery power to hold it while you
are switching but you could survive and do an orderly shutdown on big
loads. Once you get that sophisticated you might as well be looking at
incoming clouds in real time. As I said this is far from a $20
solution.
I have already said, the $20 solution might be a small battery
inverter to clock the grid inverter and a main breaker interlock that
would allow an emergency switch over but it might crash with a load
spike or a cloud. If your bootstrap inverter was 1500w or so it might
carry over short term spikes or interruptions in solar output. That is
still hundreds of dollars not tens of dollars.

On Fri, 19 May 2017 00:06:01 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:


Thu, 18 May 2017 19:07:33 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:44:57 -0700, "Tony944"
wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy installers
and Solar company don€„¢t tell you and don€„¢t want you to know!!!
Solar Energy is nice clean and chip; but who dose actually benefit
from it??? Well yes every body dose benefit but most of it goes to
Financial Organizations; unless you purchase it out right!!
Warning The Kicker
You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€?
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry
for which it should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will do!
But solar and Electric companies do not want you to have that,
because some or too many people would be taking advantage of self
sufficiency.

This is more than a simple "$20" circuit. You could certainly
clock the inverter for much less than that but the rub comes in
with transfer equipment that will satisfy the PoCo and be NEC
compliant. You will also need some kind of automatic load
management unless you are right there managing the load. It is
going to take a lot of solar to deal with the locked rotor of an
HVAC compressor, especially if the water heater or dryer is going.

Especially if you don't use gas appliances and force everything to
run on solar.


If you are burning fossil fuels you are not green, you are a prepper.
The fact remains that grid tie inverters listed for the purpose do not
run off grid unless you have transfer equipment and some hack to
bootstrap them from an on site frequency source

Fri, 19 May 2017 01:38:22 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Fri, 19 May 2017 00:06:01 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:


Thu, 18 May 2017 19:07:33 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:44:57 -0700, "Tony944"
wrote:

SOLAR POWER
What you need to know about Solar power that the slimy
installers and Solar company don€„¢t tell you and
don€„¢t want you to know!!! Solar Energy is nice clean and
chip; but who dose actually benefit from it??? Well yes every
body dose benefit but most of it goes to Financial
Organizations; unless you purchase it out right!! Warning The
Kicker You can not have any power: if your power line is down
In other words the Electricity must be on in order to have
power from Solar system €œHow nice or stupid€?
What is purpose of Solar if you can not get power from
It while you may not have supply from you local Electric.
Yes it will need that inverters would need additional circuitry
for which it should not be big deal, perhaps extra $20.00 will
do! But solar and Electric companies do not want you to have
that, because some or too many people would be taking advantage
of self sufficiency.

This is more than a simple "$20" circuit. You could certainly
clock the inverter for much less than that but the rub comes in
with transfer equipment that will satisfy the PoCo and be NEC
compliant. You will also need some kind of automatic load
management unless you are right there managing the load. It is
going to take a lot of solar to deal with the locked rotor of an
HVAC compressor, especially if the water heater or dryer is
going.

Especially if you don't use gas appliances and force everything to
run on solar.


If you are burning fossil fuels you are not green, you are a
prepper.

The client could be. The discussion never came up. I didn't claim the
client was a tree hugger, either, though.

The fact remains that grid tie inverters listed for the
purpose do not run off grid unless you have transfer equipment and
some hack to bootstrap them from an on site frequency source

Yep, a hybrid inverter with a battery bank is a 'hack' and a half.




--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.