Micky
Wed, 24 May 2017
13:56:46 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Well that makes you unusual. I never worked for a bank and I can
just about guaranttee that most of the others in this group didn't
either.

[temp]

responded to your post and some other posters explaining the
holds, etc.

Does your bank send emails when a hold is cancelled or a charge
is retracted?

No. And, other banks shouldn't do that either. It only leads to
confusion.

And what they did instead didnt' lead to confusion??

Your bank statement doesn't show all activity that took
place on your card or your account. Invalid pin entries, bad
swipes,

Things like that that have no consequence, I don't want to see.
Invalid pin entries and bad swipes neither cost me money nor do
they appear to have cost me money, even if they were shown. .

But deductions of money from my account to have consequences.

The problem is that they DID show holds for money that was never
deducted/debited/chargeed but they didn't disttinguish it from
money that WAS deducted. They did this both in the email alerts,
and the monthly statement as viewed online before the month
ended**. All they had to do was says in the email. This is a
HOLD and no money has been deducted. Or if money was deducted,
they should have sent an email to say it was returned.

Then to make matters worse, they first put the entry in the
online-statement, and later removd it with no nothing left to say
it had been there. And you don't think that is confusing? You
think it is okay to have phantom charges that appear online and
then disappear? Or emails about "transactions" that appear to be
charges, without saying that they were reversed later?


**I guess since it's not the end of the month, and it changes
before it's finalized/mailed, that means it's not really the
monthly statement, but it has the same format as the monthly
statment and I don't know what else it should be called.

etc, don't appear on YOUR copy, but, they do appear on your
account that a bank employee with proper security rights has.

That's good.

That information is required in order to help you, the customer if
you call about a possible fraudulent transaction. Or have another
issue to discuss with the bank that specifically concerns
transactions on your account and/or other services the bank may
offer/be able to provide, based on your account status and
transaction history.

That's all good, but giving me a bunch of words about something
the bank does right doesn't mean they haven't done something else
that is wrong.

Of course I know what I'm doing. I don't know what sort of
system or breaker cut the power off, but it's clear below that
you don't know either.

I wasn't there to see the configuration, the wiring, or the panel
you interacted with, so I don't know for certain what the system
is, no. I'm relying on you to provide details; which you haven't
provided much of, so far. I'm not a mind reader.

If you and the people here don't know the answer, I have no
critiicism about that. I thought it might be so well known that
even with the little information I had, the answer would have been
clear. That would have been true if I had, for example,
described a GFI breaker in the USA that kept tripping. People ask
questions like that all the time, and the group is able to answer
them. If the people here can't this time, that's fine.

It would greatly help to know which country you were in when this
happened.

My agency does not allow me to say where assignments take me.

Suffice to say, a current leak detected by ground fault
and/or arcfault/ground fault combo breaker could have occured. But
without further details from you, it's not possible to know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground...it_interrupter

What country do you live in?

I live in the USA.

because toggle switches often have arcing in normal operation.
It's continued arcing that makes those breakers trip.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fa...it_interrupter

You are just sputtering words you know about things that
interrupt current, but they have nothing to do with this
situation.

I'm doing nothing of the sort...

you haven't provided enough useful detail to reliably be able to
determine that. You wouldn't see much of any 'spark' if either
is

Arcfault: definition coming later.

Already provided..

Yes. Thank you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fa...it_interrupter

BRLAFGF120

Is one such combo model. It's a combination ground fault and
arcfault, single pole.


She has a breaker box that is only 20, probably less than 10
years old.

Umm...So which is it then?

I don't know or I would have said. Is your knowledge of
electrical history so extensive that the difference between 10
and 20 would tell you what the answer is?

Not necessarily, but, it could help to narrow down the
possibilities.

Hey, Here's an idea.. is there any chance you could take a pic
of what you're looking at, and, upload it to say, picpaste? I
request picpaste because it doesn't use a bunch of scripts to
provide an uploaded picture on the screen.

As your description isn't very helpful. A pic of the panel
feeding the area you live in would also be a plus.

I probably don't have time. Only 7 days left on my vacation
and lots of things to do. But maybe I'll have time.

You don't have time to take a few pics and do a quick upload?

I've been away for 3 days. We'll see. It takes no time to
take the picture but the rest will take me time, and I've told the
landlady I will try to put casters on a cabinet she has. It turns
out she can't borrow an electric drill and the tool I bought to
start the holes didn't work as well as I hoped, The cabinet is
upsdide down in her living room and she needs help turning it
right side up and putting it back in the other room, so that is a
priority.

But most of the breakers are Delixi
The main breaker is RS and it also says BRL

Is this panel inside or outside your home?

It's inside the apartment.

What country is your residence in?

They have to say more than that...

Do they look anything like these:

https://www.google.com/#q=delixi+circuit+breaker

I hadn't had time to do this.

If so, which one(s)?

Yes, this one is the most common, and is the one for the circuit
in question:
CDB6s Miniature Circuit Breaker
http://www.delixi-electric.com/en/pr...c19b75742.aspx
It's C16. I guess that is 16 amps on the C curve, and iiuc at
220v, 16a is equivalent to 32a on 110v.

There is a Q&A tab, and if I send them my original post here, do
you think they'll tell me how it works!

The whole company is less than 10 years old, so her rewiring was
less than 10 years ago.

The breaker that got tripped was rs brl rogy
She knew right where to go so apparently it's the one that's
tripped before, when the whole apartment is involved.
Some of these are similar:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/fuses-...reakers/circui
t-breakers/residential-rcbos/ This one, for one:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reside...rcbos/3414452/ althought
it's branded EATON instead of RS.
It says"Type B MCB and 30mA RCD combined in one device
10kA MCB/RCBO breaking capacity
Type B MCB/RCBO operating characteristic"

That 30mA RCD sounds relveant. Maybe 30 or 50 wouldn't make a
visible spark.
https://www.google.com/search?num=10..._l=serp.12...3
111223.3112689.0.3127892.3.2.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0 ...1.1.64.serp..3
.0.0.YlMfkNj-Rr8

Also this looks good but havent' read it yet.
http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.../0900766b812e3
f94.pdf

I have to take a break now, but one question is clear. How many
of the 3 conductors are disconnected when the breaker is tripped
in a 220v system like this? If it were even 2 of them, I don't
see how I tripped this main? breaker. If I have time I'll do some
testing. The test leads on my travel voltmeter are pretty short.


Seriously though, the country in which you reside and some more
details (as much as you can provide on the breakers) and/or some
decent pics of them would be very helpful here. Like I said, I'm
not a mind reader.

Along with good quality pics of the outlet you tried to work on,
and it's enclosure. That is, if you expect any of us to be able to
provide you a reasonable explanation as to what happened...


Back to the charge card:
If the two charges from the gas station that were later reversed
had been marked as Holds or Debit/Reversed-Debit and not debits, I
would never havw had to call the bank. That would have saved the
bank time and saved me a lot of time.

And when I made an international call to learn why the charges
were there, all the woman from the bank said was that one had been
cancelled. She didn't know about the other one that was still
there and didn't seem to know about holds etc.


WRT the gas station that had two charges for about $110 when the
car holds less than 60 which generated 2 email alert, the online
statement DID show themt and the two local people I talked to
about it, both adults over 50, one who runs his own business, said
that I was being cheated. So it confused them too, Back in
the states I know a couple other people who work in banking. I'll
talk to them about it before I write to Bank of America.





--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.