I have heard repeatedly that Federal Pacific (FPE) breaker panels are
dangerous and they should be replaced.
There was also a Zinsco or GTE-Sylvania, both of which were dangerous
and are no longer made. (I've never seen these two brands)
But what about other brands?
Are any others considered to be poor or bad? Is there a "best" brand, or
are all the other brands about the same?

This is probably not a complete list of brands, but I regularly see
Square D (QO series)
Homeline (made by Square D)
General Electric
Cutler Hammer
Westinghouse

Others I dont regularly see are
Siemens
Eaton

What I see most are Square D, Homeline, GE, and Cutler Hammer, but that
might just be a regional thing.

What else is there?
Are all of these common brands equal, or are some better or worse?


I'm asking this because I have numerous panels on my farm in different
buildings. I have Square D, Homeline, and Cutler Hammer. Unfortunately I
also have a FPE panel, which has never been a problem, but based on poor
reports, I intend to replace it soon. (I'm considering keeping the metal
enclosure and just replacing the innards, if I can make them fit, to
eliminate the hassle of ripping out walls, making the steel service
entrance conduit fit, and so on.....). But that may or may not be
possible, since the cover needs to fit the breakers!

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:19:31 -0600, wrote:

I have heard repeatedly that Federal Pacific (FPE) breaker panels are
dangerous and they should be replaced.
There was also a Zinsco or GTE-Sylvania, both of which were dangerous
and are no longer made. (I've never seen these two brands)
But what about other brands?
Are any others considered to be poor or bad? Is there a "best" brand, or
are all the other brands about the same?

This is probably not a complete list of brands, but I regularly see
Square D (QO series)
Homeline (made by Square D)
General Electric
Cutler Hammer
Westinghouse

Others I dont regularly see are
Siemens
Eaton

What I see most are Square D, Homeline, GE, and Cutler Hammer, but that
might just be a regional thing.

What else is there?
Are all of these common brands equal, or are some better or worse?


I'm asking this because I have numerous panels on my farm in different
buildings. I have Square D, Homeline, and Cutler Hammer. Unfortunately I
also have a FPE panel, which has never been a problem, but based on poor
reports, I intend to replace it soon. (I'm considering keeping the metal
enclosure and just replacing the innards, if I can make them fit, to
eliminate the hassle of ripping out walls, making the steel service
entrance conduit fit, and so on.....). But that may or may not be
possible, since the cover needs to fit the breakers!



Cuttler Hammer (Challenger) makes retro fit kits listed for a number
of existing enclosures.
The breaker with the worst reputation is the FPE stab locks. I know
CPSC was all over them but I am not sure U/L ever tried to pull the
listing. The same situation exists with the Ideal 65 wire nut.

In article ,
says...



Cuttler Hammer (Challenger) makes retro fit kits listed for a number
of existing enclosures.
The breaker with the worst reputation is the FPE stab locks. I know
CPSC was all over them but I am not sure U/L ever tried to pull the
listing. The same situation exists with the Ideal 65 wire nut.

Had to look up the Ideal 65 wire nut. See why it should not be used.
That aluminum wiring for circuits in the house has burnt down many of
them.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:40:00 -0500, wrote:


I'm asking this because I have numerous panels on my farm in different
buildings. I have Square D, Homeline, and Cutler Hammer. Unfortunately I
also have a FPE panel, which has never been a problem, but based on poor
reports, I intend to replace it soon. (I'm considering keeping the metal
enclosure and just replacing the innards, if I can make them fit, to
eliminate the hassle of ripping out walls, making the steel service
entrance conduit fit, and so on.....). But that may or may not be
possible, since the cover needs to fit the breakers!



Cuttler Hammer (Challenger) makes retro fit kits listed for a number
of existing enclosures.
The breaker with the worst reputation is the FPE stab locks. I know
CPSC was all over them but I am not sure U/L ever tried to pull the
listing. The same situation exists with the Ideal 65 wire nut.

Is there some place to locate these Cutler Hammer retro-fit kits? (as in
website, or by phone). It would be a lot easier to just change the
innards. The box itself dont matter, it's just a metal box.

What is wrong with Ideal 65 wirenuts? I never heard anything about that.
Can you shed more light on this. I've always used whatever wirenut came
my way, thinking they were all the same on the inside, just looked a
little different on the outside....

In article ,
says...


What is wrong with Ideal 65 wirenuts? I never heard anything about that.
Can you shed more light on this. I've always used whatever wirenut came
my way, thinking they were all the same on the inside, just looked a
little different on the outside....

From what I get out of them it is they are rated to be used with
aluminum wiring and contain a substance that is flamable.

Look he

http://www.alwirerepair.com/photo-ga...burned-purples

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:55:58 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...



Cuttler Hammer (Challenger) makes retro fit kits listed for a number
of existing enclosures.
The breaker with the worst reputation is the FPE stab locks. I know
CPSC was all over them but I am not sure U/L ever tried to pull the
listing. The same situation exists with the Ideal 65 wire nut.

Had to look up the Ideal 65 wire nut. See why it should not be used.
That aluminum wiring for circuits in the house has burnt down many of
them.


There was a lot of bad workmanship when they were installing aluminum.
The houses that were going to burn down already have for the most
part. There are still millions running just fine. The Ideal 65 was
caught up in that hysteria.
The thing that shocks people is that aluminum wire is still legal and
could be installed today if you used AA-8000 alloy wire and CU/AL
identified devices (CO-AL/r)

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:25:13 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


What is wrong with Ideal 65 wirenuts? I never heard anything about that.
Can you shed more light on this. I've always used whatever wirenut came
my way, thinking they were all the same on the inside, just looked a
little different on the outside....

From what I get out of them it is they are rated to be used with
aluminum wiring and contain a substance that is flamable.

Look he

http://www.alwirerepair.com/photo-ga...burned-purples





If you do not install them right, the yellow ones burn up too ... on
copper wire.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:25:13 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


What is wrong with Ideal 65 wirenuts? I never heard anything about that.
Can you shed more light on this. I've always used whatever wirenut came
my way, thinking they were all the same on the inside, just looked a
little different on the outside....

From what I get out of them it is they are rated to be used with
aluminum wiring and contain a substance that is flamable.

Look he

http://www.alwirerepair.com/photo-ga...burned-purples


Aluminum wiring a total garbage and should have never been allowed.
Putting a flammable material in the wirenuts is worse yet. I have never
seen the purple ones though.

Back in the 70's I was doing handyman work, which meant almost anything
and everything. A guy lived in a trailer house with Alum wire and he
plugged in an electric space heater. Luckily he was home watching tv in
his living room, when that outlet started on fire right next to his
couch. He said he smelled smoke, then the tv went off. Moments later he
saw flames coming from the wood panelling around that outlet next to the
couch. (where heater was plugged in). He shut off the power and threw
water on the flames, and made out the fire. He called me to fix the
damage, which meant rewiring that outlet, and repairing the wall.

To rewire would have meant ripping the whole trailer apart, so we
decided to just run EMT conduit on the wall surface above the baseboard
from the breaker box to that outlet, and the next one on that circuit.
That just fixed that outlet and I warned the guy about the other outlets
having their alum wire. Rewiring was not an option because the entire
trailer would need to be torn apart. Thats when I found that they made
special outlets and switches for alum wire, that were safe. They cost
around $8 each, which in the 70s was pretty expensive. But another fire
was not an option either, so he paid close to $200 just for these
materials, and I changed every outlet and switch in the whole trailer,
and inspected every light fixture and other stuff. He never had another
problem with his wiring.

I cant believe they still allow alum wiring. It's just not safe!!!!

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:40:26 -0600, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 17:25:13 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...


What is wrong with Ideal 65 wirenuts? I never heard anything about that.
Can you shed more light on this. I've always used whatever wirenut came
my way, thinking they were all the same on the inside, just looked a
little different on the outside....

From what I get out of them it is they are rated to be used with
aluminum wiring and contain a substance that is flamable.

Look he

http://www.alwirerepair.com/photo-ga...burned-purples


Aluminum wiring a total garbage and should have never been allowed.
Putting a flammable material in the wirenuts is worse yet. I have never
seen the purple ones though.

Back in the 70's I was doing handyman work, which meant almost anything
and everything. A guy lived in a trailer house with Alum wire and he
plugged in an electric space heater. Luckily he was home watching tv in
his living room, when that outlet started on fire right next to his
couch. He said he smelled smoke, then the tv went off. Moments later he
saw flames coming from the wood panelling around that outlet next to the
couch. (where heater was plugged in). He shut off the power and threw
water on the flames, and made out the fire. He called me to fix the
damage, which meant rewiring that outlet, and repairing the wall.

To rewire would have meant ripping the whole trailer apart, so we
decided to just run EMT conduit on the wall surface above the baseboard
from the breaker box to that outlet, and the next one on that circuit.
That just fixed that outlet and I warned the guy about the other outlets
having their alum wire. Rewiring was not an option because the entire
trailer would need to be torn apart. Thats when I found that they made
special outlets and switches for alum wire, that were safe. They cost
around $8 each, which in the 70s was pretty expensive. But another fire
was not an option either, so he paid close to $200 just for these
materials, and I changed every outlet and switch in the whole trailer,
and inspected every light fixture and other stuff. He never had another
problem with his wiring.

I cant believe they still allow alum wiring. It's just not safe!!!!



Perhaps you should actually listen to engineers who have investigated
the problems and what was done to fix it.
It is not likely we will see 15 and 20a circuits run in aluminum any
time soon but 8ga and larger is very common. You also are served by
aluminum from the utility.

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 3:40:30 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:19:31 -0600, wrote:

I have heard repeatedly that Federal Pacific (FPE) breaker panels are
dangerous and they should be replaced.
There was also a Zinsco or GTE-Sylvania, both of which were dangerous
and are no longer made. (I've never seen these two brands)
But what about other brands?
Are any others considered to be poor or bad? Is there a "best" brand, or
are all the other brands about the same?

This is probably not a complete list of brands, but I regularly see
Square D (QO series)
Homeline (made by Square D)
General Electric
Cutler Hammer
Westinghouse

Others I dont regularly see are
Siemens
Eaton

What I see most are Square D, Homeline, GE, and Cutler Hammer, but that
might just be a regional thing.

What else is there?
Are all of these common brands equal, or are some better or worse?

I'm asking this because I have numerous panels on my farm in different
buildings. I have Square D, Homeline, and Cutler Hammer. Unfortunately I
also have a FPE panel, which has never been a problem, but based on poor
reports, I intend to replace it soon. (I'm considering keeping the metal
enclosure and just replacing the innards, if I can make them fit, to
eliminate the hassle of ripping out walls, making the steel service
entrance conduit fit, and so on.....). But that may or may not be
possible, since the cover needs to fit the breakers!

Cuttler Hammer (Challenger) makes retro fit kits listed for a number
of existing enclosures.
The breaker with the worst reputation is the FPE stab locks. I know
CPSC was all over them but I am not sure U/L ever tried to pull the
listing. The same situation exists with the Ideal 65 wire nut.


Back when I was still working, I used some of the Ideal 65 wire nuts but there was something else I started using that was like a length of ground/neutral bar enclosed in a clear soft plastic insulation. It was rated cu/al and I never had a failure when I used them to connect copper to aluminum wiring. I haven't found them by searching the Web but there seems to be a new darling of a copper to aluminum connector on the market. I've never used them but the specs look good. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

http://kinginnovation.com/category-p.../alumiconn.php

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster

On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 4:51:24 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:55:58 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Cuttler Hammer (Challenger) makes retro fit kits listed for a number
of existing enclosures.
The breaker with the worst reputation is the FPE stab locks. I know
CPSC was all over them but I am not sure U/L ever tried to pull the
listing. The same situation exists with the Ideal 65 wire nut.

Had to look up the Ideal 65 wire nut. See why it should not be used.
That aluminum wiring for circuits in the house has burnt down many of
them.

There was a lot of bad workmanship when they were installing aluminum.
The houses that were going to burn down already have for the most
part. There are still millions running just fine. The Ideal 65 was
caught up in that hysteria.
The thing that shocks people is that aluminum wire is still legal and
could be installed today if you used AA-8000 alloy wire and CU/AL
identified devices (CO-AL/r)


Back in the 1970's, trailer manufacturers were wiring trailers with aluminum Romex because it was cheep and because of the copper shortage at the time.. The house trailers were bounced around as they were transported causing the aluminum wiring to flex and fatigue which caused a lot of bad connection and burned trailers. I don't know what steps the manufacturers took to protect the wiring such as securing it better to prevent movement during transport. As I recall, copper clad aluminum Romex hit the market during those days and I remember encountering my first roll of copper clad aluminum thermostat wire. I picked it up and it almost flew out of my hands because it was so light. The last Ethernet installation I was involved with was where me and the guys were using copper clad aluminum Cat5e cable. Me and Penguin had no problem with the wire but Stinky kept breaking it because he was too vigorous with his use of the punch down tool. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Trailer Monster

In article ,
says...



Back in the 1970's, trailer manufacturers were wiring trailers with aluminum Romex because it was cheep and because of the copper shortage at the time. The house trailers were bounced around as they were transported causing the aluminum wiring to flex and fatigue which caused a lot of bad connection and burned trailers. I don't know what steps the manufacturers took to protect the wiring such as securing it
better to prevent movement during transport. As I recall, copper clad aluminum Romex hit the market during those days and I remember encountering my first roll of copper clad aluminum thermostat wire. I picked it up and it almost flew out of my hands because it was so light. The last Ethernet installation I was involved with was where me and the guys were using copper clad aluminum Cat5e cable. Me and Penguin had
no problem with the wire but Stinky kept breaking it because he was too vigorous with his use of the punch down tool. ?(?)?


A few months back I ordered some # 10 and # 14 wire off ebay. It was
twin wire one red and one black for low voltage. That stuff was copper
coated aluminum wire. Not sure why they would make wire like that
unless it was less expensive. Looking back if you read the fine print
it tells that.

I know they make some coax cable wiring with copper coated aluminum. As
mose of the radio waves tend to travel on the outside of the conductor
this is fine electriclly. Infact some of the very large cables use a
hollow tube for the center conductor.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:39:24 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:


A few months back I ordered some # 10 and # 14 wire off ebay. It was
twin wire one red and one black for low voltage. That stuff was copper
coated aluminum wire. Not sure why they would make wire like that
unless it was less expensive. Looking back if you read the fine print
it tells that.

I know they make some coax cable wiring with copper coated aluminum. As
mose of the radio waves tend to travel on the outside of the conductor
this is fine electriclly. Infact some of the very large cables use a
hollow tube for the center conductor.


Yea, a lot of the trailer homes in the 70s had alum wiring, later
replaced by copper clad aluminum, which was supposed to be a lot safer.
(I always wondered how that did not corrode from dialectric corrosion).
I agree that the movement from transporting those homes added to poor
connections.

A few years ago, I helped a guy demolish a trailer. Besides getting
paid, the guy told em I could have the wiring as a bonus, (to sell for
scrap copper). But I was sure it was alum wire, because the outer
coating was black, and rather than a white and black wire, it had white
and a light brown (or tan). I looked at the printing on the cable and
it's a Phelps Dodge type NM 14-2 W ground. Type PD-X. I cut it and it is
solid copper. I googled it and never found that exact type listed, but
it appears to be some sort of fireproof insulation (I think). Most if it
was in good shape, so I saved the longer pieces to reuse in my sheds or
whatever.
But it really looks goofy without a black wire.... I can only guess they
did that because of the black outer coating, so it's easier to see the
inner wires when stripping it.