Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John

John wrote:

Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John


Off the top of my head, I would drive a new 8' or 10' ground rod right
under the mast and ground to it with a big wire with as few bends in it as
possible -- probably a bare stranded #8. Then I would run a #6 solid wire
from the that new electrode to the nearest point on the grounding electrode
system for the house -- the electric meter enclosure would be the closest
point on my service. The new ground rod is now an extension of your
service ground. If your antenna takes a lightning hit, the most of the
charge should travel straight down into the new ground electrode under your
tower.

-bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
John wrote:

Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John


Off the top of my head, I would drive a new 8' or 10' ground rod right
under the mast and ground to it with a big wire with as few bends in it as
possible -- probably a bare stranded #8. Then I would run a #6 solid wire
from the that new electrode to the nearest point on the grounding
electrode
system for the house -- the electric meter enclosure would be the closest
point on my service. The new ground rod is now an extension of your
service ground. If your antenna takes a lightning hit, the most of the
charge should travel straight down into the new ground electrode under
your
tower.

-bob

Sound advice except for the connecting conductor needs to be the same size
as the grounding electrode for the service. 200 amp is #4.

Grounding the antenna will not protect you from a lightning strike. It might
divert some of the energy into the ground before it destroys your running
electronics... Sorry it is the way it is.

SQLit wrote:

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

John wrote:


Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John


Off the top of my head, I would drive a new 8' or 10' ground rod right
under the mast and ground to it with a big wire with as few bends in it as
possible -- probably a bare stranded #8. Then I would run a #6 solid wire
from the that new electrode to the nearest point on the grounding

electrode

system for the house -- the electric meter enclosure would be the closest
point on my service. The new ground rod is now an extension of your
service ground. If your antenna takes a lightning hit, the most of the
charge should travel straight down into the new ground electrode under

your

tower.

-bob


Sound advice except for the connecting conductor needs to be the same size
as the grounding electrode for the service. 200 amp is #4.

Grounding the antenna will not protect you from a lightning strike. It might
divert some of the energy into the ground before it destroys your running
electronics... Sorry it is the way it is.



This isn't the main Grounding Electrode Conductor for the service, it is a
grounding electrode conductor to a supplimental made-electrode. 250-94 has
an exception that sez: "Where connected to made electrodes as in Section
250-83 (c) or (d), that portion of the grounding electrode conductor that
is the sole connection to the grounding electrode shall not be required to
be larger than No. 6 copper or No. 4 aluminum"

Of course, I might be interpretting that incorrectly, or the exception may
have been removed in a later version of the code book than my old one.

Also you might want to use #4 instead of #6 to avoid having to run it in a
conduit if the wire is subjected to physical damage.

Best regards,
Bob

"SQLit" wrote in message
news:e_83c.14802$BA.7129@fed1read03...

Sound advice except for the connecting conductor needs to be the same size
as the grounding electrode for the service. 200 amp is #4.

The grounding wire for a TV antenna needs to be no smaller than #10 copper
{810.21(H)}. The bonding jumper between the ground rod and the electric
service can be no smaller than #6 copper {810.21(J)}. However, I do concur,
as many electrical contractors will carry a spool of #4 bare and use it
exclusively, regardless. Simply because it does't need protection like
smaller wires do and will cover any situation under 200 amps.

"John" wrote in message
om...
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.

The ground wire can be attached to the water pipe only if attached within 5
feet from where the underground metal water pipe enters the building. That
same pipe should already be connected to the electric power grounding
system.


The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John

The antenna lead-in should pass through an antenna discharge unit before it
enters the house. The ground wire can be attached to the mast (using an
appropriate clamp or lug), onward, through the ground lug on the discharge
unit, then on to the water pipe _if_the water pipe meets the requirements
stated above. Otherwise, drive a ground rod and connect it to that. The
ground rod then needs to be connected with a minimum #6 copper conductor to
the electric power grounding system. The ground wire from the mast should
be ran as straight as possible (line of sight) to ground. Use copper wire
if connecting to a ground rod.

John wrote:
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.

If that Antenna is the highest thing around it may attract lightning.
Your grounding plan will bring it inside your home. That you don't want to
do. Since the grounding may be for other than lightening protection your
answer may be different. Did it not come with some instructions?

The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.

If it is for lightning protection you DON'T want to use your home
electrical ground, you want it to have its own ground.

Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?

That is the part I can't see from here. Again did they not have some
instructions with it?

Thanks
John

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

John wrote:
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.

If that Antenna is the highest thing around it may attract lightning.
Your grounding plan will bring it inside your home. That you don't want to
do. Since the grounding may be for other than lightening protection your
answer may be different. Did it not come with some instructions?

The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.

If it is for lightning protection you DON'T want to use your home
electrical ground, you want it to have its own ground.

Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?

That is the part I can't see from here. Again did they not have some
instructions with it?

Thanks
John

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.

If that Antenna is the highest thing around it may attract lightning.
Your grounding plan will bring it inside your home. That you don't want
to
do. Since the grounding may be for other than lightening protection your
answer may be different. Did it not come with some instructions?

The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.

If it is for lightning protection you DON'T want to use your home
electrical ground, you want it to have its own ground.

While it is true that a (true) lightning protection system should have it
own grounding system, it is very important that any lightning protection
grounding system be bonded to the electric power grounding system, resulting
in essentially one grounding system, increasing the chances that the whole
system rises to the same potential during a strike.

NEC Section 250.106 Lightning Protection Systems.
"The lightning protection system grounding terminals shall be bonded to the
building or structure grounding electrode system."

Joseph is right. You do NOT want to ground a lightning strike thru
your house. Hammer in a copper rod as deep as you can and as near
your mast as possible. Keep this ground away from your house wiring.
Pj



On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 02:47:01 GMT, "volts500"
wrote:


"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
John wrote:
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.

If that Antenna is the highest thing around it may attract lightning.
Your grounding plan will bring it inside your home. That you don't want
to
do. Since the grounding may be for other than lightening protection your
answer may be different. Did it not come with some instructions?

The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.

If it is for lightning protection you DON'T want to use your home
electrical ground, you want it to have its own ground.

While it is true that a (true) lightning protection system should have it
own grounding system, it is very important that any lightning protection
grounding system be bonded to the electric power grounding system, resulting
in essentially one grounding system, increasing the chances that the whole
system rises to the same potential during a strike.

NEC Section 250.106 Lightning Protection Systems.
"The lightning protection system grounding terminals shall be bonded to the
building or structure grounding electrode system."

PJx wrote:
Joseph is right. You do NOT want to ground a lightning strike thru
your house. Hammer in a copper rod as deep as you can and as near
your mast as possible. Keep this ground away from your house wiring.
Pj


Nope, he's wrong. The electrical code says the antenna ground or lightning
rod ground is supposed to be tied to the grounding electrode system (and
the water pipes are also attached to the grounding electrode system; the
water main may even be the primary electrode.)

BTW, a proper lighting rod has a sharp point, and the corona discharge
should bleed off much of the electric potential before lightning strikes,
or instead of lighting striking.

-Bob

"PJx" wrote in message
...

Joseph is right. You do NOT want to ground a lightning strike thru
your house. Hammer in a copper rod as deep as you can and as near
your mast as possible. Keep this ground away from your house wiring.
Pj

I'll agree that the lightning should be kept routed outside the house if
possible, however, not bonding the antenna ground rod to the electric
power grounding system is a big mistake.

volts500 wrote:
"PJx" wrote in message
...

Joseph is right. You do NOT want to ground a lightning strike thru
your house. Hammer in a copper rod as deep as you can and as near
your mast as possible. Keep this ground away from your house
wiring. Pj

I'll agree that the lightning should be kept routed outside the house
if possible, however, not bonding the antenna ground rod to the
electric power grounding system is a big mistake.


But not as big as just bonding it to a water pipe!

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"John" wrote in message om...
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John

This is Turtle.

just a thought here.

Do you really want a 30 foot rod up in the air that has a wire leeding direct to your bath tub and when or if lightening ever
stricks it. You are in the direct path of 10,000 volts of electricity. So is true with every plumbing fixiture in your home will be
in the direct path of 10,000 volts. I would not want to hook up my bath tub to a 30 foot lightening rod in the air. Now if you feel
luck , well go for it.

TURTLE



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.611 / Virus Database: 391 - Release Date: 3/4/2004

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

This is Turtle.

just a thought here.

Do you really want a 30 foot rod up in the air that has a wire leeding
direct to your bath tub and when or if lightening ever
stricks it. You are in the direct path of 10,000 volts of electricity. So
is true with every plumbing fixiture in your home will be
in the direct path of 10,000 volts. I would not want to hook up my bath
tub to a 30 foot lightening rod in the air. Now if you feel
luck , well go for it.

TURTLE

During a lightning storm, talking on a corded telephone, taking a shower,
washing hands or doing dishes, and/or contact with conductive surfaces is
not recommended in _any_ building. Unplug any electric equipment (including
phone, cable, antenna, etc.) _before_ a lightning storm, _not_ during one.
Failure to ground an antenna will _guarantee_, should the antenna be struck,
that a destructive path will occur. _Not_ bonding grounding systems
together will also guarantee that potentials will exist between different
systems during a strike, leading to destructive current paths. Don't let
fear of the unknown, or lack of common sense (like taking a shower during a
lightning storm) lead to decisions that result in conditions that are worse
than not grounding and bonding the antenna to the electric system.

volts500 wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote in message
...


During a lightning storm, talking on a corded telephone, taking a
shower, washing hands or doing dishes, and/or contact with conductive
surfaces is not recommended in _any_ building. Unplug any electric
equipment (including phone, cable, antenna, etc.) _before_ a
lightning storm, _not_ during one.

Around here, I would have to unplug everything all summer long. ;-)

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Thanks you all for your suggestions. I was planning on putting a
seperate ground(8'rod) just below where the cable comes into the house
and using a grounding block for that cable. The problem is that there
is no way of connecting this ground to my main house ground with out
running a bare wire 50ft accross my house or yd. The wife would not
put up with that. The other thing is to ground the mast I use a bare
#6 and run that down the house to the ground? I might be able to get a
coated wire and use that, but a bare wire would be pretty unsightly.

Thanks again for all the responses
John

"John" wrote in message
om...

Thanks you all for your suggestions. I was planning on putting a
seperate ground(8'rod) just below where the cable comes into the house
and using a grounding block for that cable. The problem is that there
is no way of connecting this ground to my main house ground with out
running a bare wire 50ft accross my house or yd. The wife would not
put up with that.


An alternative would be to install the antenna on the same side of the house
as the electric service, then run the TV lead-in across the basement or
attic to where it needs to be.


The other thing is to ground the mast I use a bare
#6 and run that down the house to the ground? I might be able to get a
coated wire and use that, but a bare wire would be pretty unsightly.

Paint it.

Thanks again for all the responses
John

"volts500" wrote in message m...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

This is Turtle.

just a thought here.

Do you really want a 30 foot rod up in the air that has a wire leeding
direct to your bath tub and when or if lightening ever
stricks it. You are in the direct path of 10,000 volts of electricity. So
is true with every plumbing fixiture in your home will be
in the direct path of 10,000 volts. I would not want to hook up my bath
tub to a 30 foot lightening rod in the air. Now if you feel
luck , well go for it.

TURTLE

During a lightning storm, talking on a corded telephone, taking a shower,
washing hands or doing dishes, and/or contact with conductive surfaces is
not recommended in _any_ building. Unplug any electric equipment (including
phone, cable, antenna, etc.) _before_ a lightning storm, _not_ during one.
Failure to ground an antenna will _guarantee_, should the antenna be struck,
that a destructive path will occur. _Not_ bonding grounding systems
together will also guarantee that potentials will exist between different
systems during a strike, leading to destructive current paths. Don't let
fear of the unknown, or lack of common sense (like taking a shower during a
lightning storm) lead to decisions that result in conditions that are worse
than not grounding and bonding the antenna to the electric system.


This is Turtle.

Yes, Ground the antenna to the ground system of the electric and to a ground rod , but not to the water pipes in the home. This is
just putting the water system in the path of the strick. If doing so puts every water outlet a point of the electric strick. You
have enough with the electrical system and i would not add the bathrooms towlet, kitchen sinks, and every water outlet. This maybe
over kill here but just a added measure.

TURTLE

P.S. And don't wash your hands during a electric storm if you have your water system hooked up to the gounding system.



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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According to TURTLE :

Yes, Ground the antenna to the ground system of the electric and to a
ground rod , but not to the water pipes in the home. This is just
putting the water system in the path of the strick. If doing so puts
every water outlet a point of the electric strick. You have enough with
the electrical system and i would not add the bathrooms towlet, kitchen
sinks, and every water outlet. This maybe over kill here but just a
added measure.

I think you're missing the fact that the electrical code, in addition to requiring
that the lightning arrester system is connected to the system ground, also requires
that metallic plumbing must be connected to the system ground.

You don't have a choice.

If you _have_ to be in the tub when lightning strikes, your survival rate is likely
to be much higher if the plumbing is grounded. Otherwise, you're part of a large
floating antenna (large arrays of heavy copper (which is what a plumbing system
_is_) is quite attractive to lightning).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ...
According to TURTLE :

Yes, Ground the antenna to the ground system of the electric and to a
ground rod , but not to the water pipes in the home. This is just
putting the water system in the path of the strick. If doing so puts
every water outlet a point of the electric strick. You have enough with
the electrical system and i would not add the bathrooms towlet, kitchen
sinks, and every water outlet. This maybe over kill here but just a
added measure.

I think you're missing the fact that the electrical code, in addition to requiring
that the lightning arrester system is connected to the system ground, also requires
that metallic plumbing must be connected to the system ground.

You don't have a choice.

If you _have_ to be in the tub when lightning strikes, your survival rate is likely
to be much higher if the plumbing is grounded. Otherwise, you're part of a large
floating antenna (large arrays of heavy copper (which is what a plumbing system
_is_) is quite attractive to lightning).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

This is Turtle.

If you read what he said and that he was going into the house and tie the antena to the plumbing system and not to the electrical
system ground. he will be depending on the lightening strick to travel through the plumbing and then on to the meter pan ground or
electrical grounding system. You do not direct the lightening strick to travel through the plumbing first and then to the electrical
grounding system. this is why i ask him does he feel luck go for it.

TURTLE



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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TURTLE wrote:

"John" wrote in message om...
Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John

This is Turtle.

just a thought here.

Do you really want a 30 foot rod up in the air that has a wire leeding direct to your bath tub and when or if lightening ever
stricks it. You are in the direct path of 10,000 volts of electricity. So is true with every plumbing fixiture in your home will be
in the direct path of 10,000 volts. I would not want to hook up my bath tub to a 30 foot lightening rod in the air. Now if you feel
luck , well go for it.

TURTLE

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.611 / Virus Database: 391 - Release Date: 3/4/2004

And have a fireproof house. When that wire leading through the walls
lights up it will probably cause a fire. Of course if you're in the
bath tub that may not be a big deal.

Here is some good info:
http://www.orlandodigital.tv/Lightning.htm

If you feel you need to tie it in to other grounds, I'd run a bare
copper wire, buried around the outside of your foundation to tie in
with the copper rod used for your electrical ground.

Do NOT, under any circumstance, ever run a grounding wire of any
type from your mast to the inside your house.

Pj




On 8 Mar 2004 15:48:43 -0800, (John) wrote:

Im new to this and know this subject has been discussed in the past. I
have tried reading previous posts, but am still confused on the
subject. I want to put up a tv antenna. I plan on attaching the mast
to my facia. Radio shack sells cable with the ground wire attached,
which I plan on running into the house and grounding to a cold water
pipe.
The antenna will be mounted on the opposite side as my house ground.
Will this be enough? I really dont want wires running all over the
side/roof of my house.Also wil this also ground the mast or does that
need grounded to?
Thanks
John

"PJx" wrote in message
...

Here is some good info:
http://www.orlandodigital.tv/Lightning.htm

If you feel you need to tie it in to other grounds, I'd run a bare
copper wire, buried around the outside of your foundation to tie in
with the copper rod used for your electrical ground.

Do NOT, under any circumstance, ever run a grounding wire of any
type from your mast to the inside your house.

Pj


That website is crap. I like how they use the word "ideally" so casually.
Here's what they are _really_ saying: "We'll attach the TV antenna ground
to the electric power ground _IF_ it is readily available, otherwise, we're
gonna screw you 'cause you are a clueless homeowner and you don't know any
better." "We could care less that _not_ connecting the TV antenna to the
electric power grounding system presents a possible shock and fire hazard as
long as our installers are in and out of there in one half hour or less."

Unfortunately, people who sell and install TV, cable, satellite, etc. are
the LAST people you want to ask about proper grounding of
same.....especially if the installation is "free". If the electric power
grounding system is _readily_ available to them, they will use it. If not,
they will drive a ground rod, not connect it to the electric power grounding
system and call it a done deal. They will connect to an outside water
spigot if they can find one. Properly grounding a TV antennna, cable TV,
satellite, or whatever can easily turn into an _all_ day_ job_, and they
don't want anything to "kill the sale."
I find it interesting that these same people will also have all kinds of
surge and lightning protection equipment to sell you after you call them
saying that your TV was blown out.

If you want to read what electrical industry profesionals, who have no
financial interest, have to say about the matter, try this:
http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=grounding/unformatted/satellite&type=u&title=Satellite%20Dish%20(1-12-2K)

According to volts500 :

"PJx" wrote in message
...

Here is some good info:
http://www.orlandodigital.tv/Lightning.htm

That website is crap. I like how they use the word "ideally" so casually.

Are you looking at the same web page? That web page doesn't use the word "ideally"
at all.

Here's what they are _really_ saying: "We'll attach the TV antenna ground
to the electric power ground _IF_ it is readily available, otherwise, we're
gonna screw you 'cause you are a clueless homeowner and you don't know any
better."

I don't see anything about them attaching or doing anything.

It's just a informational page on the subject. Says nothing about what they
actually do.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

YOu guys have been a world of help and I apprecieat all your
suggestions. Id just like a clarification. I was planning on using
black coated #6 wire running from the antenna and mask to the
grounding rod (for astetic reasons) but was told that a strike might
cause the black coating to catch fire. So my question(s) is, if I run
a bare copper wire and plastic strap it to the the rg6 coming down the
side of the houes:

1) if there is a strike,will it ment the RG6 covering
and
2) if the bare copper wire is touching my gutter,facia and siding wont
that stuff catch fire as well?

How would you run the wires from the antenna to the ground?

Thanks agin
John

Sorry forgot to ask, if Im grounding the mast do I need to also ground
the antenna or vise a versa?
Thanks
John

On 10 Mar 2004 17:55:57 -0800, (John) wrote:

Sorry forgot to ask, if Im grounding the mast do I need to also ground
the antenna or vise a versa?
Thanks
John

My masts are metal and my antenna is metal and they are connected
together electrically as well as mechanically. If yours is not, then
test it to see if the signal is affected by the grounding.

And the wire should really be bare, but you may have some aesthetics
that take precedence. That's ok. Just buy a good smoke
detector.....
Pj