We've just moved into our new home, most of which we built. We had hardwood
floors installed in most of the house. The floor company wanted the floors
to acclimate after the installation for two weeks before finishing. But we
had no choice with our move-in date, so they acclimated only one week before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two or
three weeks after finishing, the weather here (Southern California) took a
bit of a dip--lots of rain on several days and low temperatures that were
ten or fifteen degrees colder than at installation time (we're still only
talking about the low 40s and high 30s). Around that time, we began (a.)
hearing repeated loud pops and bangs during the night, and (b.) seeing
cracks emerge between boards. The flooring company says these cracks are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver

"Jim Beaver" wrote in message
they acclimated only one week before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two
or
three weeks after finishing,
snip
The flooring company says these cracks are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit
into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain
by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver

Wood moves along the width of the board, not the length. This is somewhat
normal. It probably will expand in the spring. You may want to consider
running a humidifier in the house if the humidity is much less than normal
for your area. It may take some time for the wood to swell again.
Ed

"Jim Beaver" wrote in message
they acclimated only one week before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two
or
three weeks after finishing,
snip
The flooring company says these cracks are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit
into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain
by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver

Wood moves along the width of the board, not the length. This is somewhat
normal. It probably will expand in the spring. You may want to consider
running a humidifier in the house if the humidity is much less than normal
for your area. It may take some time for the wood to swell again.
Ed

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:55:53 GMT, "Jim Beaver"
wrote:

We've just moved into our new home, most of which we built. We had hardwood
floors installed in most of the house. The floor company wanted the floors
to acclimate after the installation for two weeks before finishing. But we
had no choice with our move-in date, so they acclimated only one week before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two or
three weeks after finishing, the weather here (Southern California) took a
bit of a dip--lots of rain on several days and low temperatures that were
ten or fifteen degrees colder than at installation time (we're still only
talking about the low 40s and high 30s). Around that time, we began (a.)
hearing repeated loud pops and bangs during the night, and (b.) seeing
cracks emerge between boards. The flooring company says these cracks are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver


Separations will happen if the floor was not properly installed.
"Floating floors" won't do this. Wood expands/contracts due to
humidity, rather than temperature changes. Two weeks wait should have
been done, one month is even better although that is not always
practical or folks are impatient. Do they have a customer
satisfaction guarantee?

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:55:53 GMT, "Jim Beaver"
wrote:

We've just moved into our new home, most of which we built. We had hardwood
floors installed in most of the house. The floor company wanted the floors
to acclimate after the installation for two weeks before finishing. But we
had no choice with our move-in date, so they acclimated only one week before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two or
three weeks after finishing, the weather here (Southern California) took a
bit of a dip--lots of rain on several days and low temperatures that were
ten or fifteen degrees colder than at installation time (we're still only
talking about the low 40s and high 30s). Around that time, we began (a.)
hearing repeated loud pops and bangs during the night, and (b.) seeing
cracks emerge between boards. The flooring company says these cracks are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver


Separations will happen if the floor was not properly installed.
"Floating floors" won't do this. Wood expands/contracts due to
humidity, rather than temperature changes. Two weeks wait should have
been done, one month is even better although that is not always
practical or folks are impatient. Do they have a customer
satisfaction guarantee?

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain
by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver


My only experience with hard wood floors (not engineered flooring) are with
stage floors. The contractor demanded that the boards be delivered into a
conditioned space 30 days before installation. They did the installation and
never a problem even with heavy stage equipment.

I can not imagine that the temp inside your home varied like it does
outside. Kalifornia is pretty temperate
me thinks you might have rushed things a mite.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain
by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver


My only experience with hard wood floors (not engineered flooring) are with
stage floors. The contractor demanded that the boards be delivered into a
conditioned space 30 days before installation. They did the installation and
never a problem even with heavy stage equipment.

I can not imagine that the temp inside your home varied like it does
outside. Kalifornia is pretty temperate
me thinks you might have rushed things a mite.

Jim,
I have the "real" ash hardwood floors in my home. This was the first
winter that they went through. I installed it myself and there were some
gaps but not too many. 2 credit cards seems a little wide but not totally
unusual. Keep in mind that wood is a natural fiberous product that will
acclimate to it's environment...no matter what you try and do. Personally I
prefer the look/sound of real wood floors any day compared to the engineered
floors. If you wanted a gap free floor you should've put in pergo. As long
as you're not snagging your socks on it I would view it as character.

my 2 cents
Doug
"Jim Beaver" wrote in message
om...
We've just moved into our new home, most of which we built. We had
hardwood
floors installed in most of the house. The floor company wanted the
floors
to acclimate after the installation for two weeks before finishing. But
we
had no choice with our move-in date, so they acclimated only one week
before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two
or
three weeks after finishing, the weather here (Southern California) took a
bit of a dip--lots of rain on several days and low temperatures that were
ten or fifteen degrees colder than at installation time (we're still only
talking about the low 40s and high 30s). Around that time, we began (a.)
hearing repeated loud pops and bangs during the night, and (b.) seeing
cracks emerge between boards. The flooring company says these cracks are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit
into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to complain
by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver

Yes you should have waited 2 weeks, even testing with a moisture meter
is something i think would be standard practice, but im sure isnt.

A certain number of cracks are inevitable/unavoidable, even with proper
acclimation. The cracks will open and close with the seasons. Another source
of cracks is differential settlement of the foundation, like if the north
side settles 3/16 of an inch more than the south and your boards are running
east-west!

"Doug" wrote in message
ink.net...
Jim,
I have the "real" ash hardwood floors in my home. This was the first
winter that they went through. I installed it myself and there were some
gaps but not too many. 2 credit cards seems a little wide but not totally
unusual. Keep in mind that wood is a natural fiberous product that will
acclimate to it's environment...no matter what you try and do. Personally
I
prefer the look/sound of real wood floors any day compared to the
engineered
floors. If you wanted a gap free floor you should've put in pergo. As
long
as you're not snagging your socks on it I would view it as character.

my 2 cents
Doug
"Jim Beaver" wrote in message
om...
We've just moved into our new home, most of which we built. We had
hardwood
floors installed in most of the house. The floor company wanted the
floors
to acclimate after the installation for two weeks before finishing. But
we
had no choice with our move-in date, so they acclimated only one week
before
the finishing work. However, the wood had been delivered to our house a
week before installation began.

The finished floors looked amazing--smooth, tight, beautiful. About two
or
three weeks after finishing, the weather here (Southern California) took
a
bit of a dip--lots of rain on several days and low temperatures that
were
ten or fifteen degrees colder than at installation time (we're still
only
talking about the low 40s and high 30s). Around that time, we began
(a.)
hearing repeated loud pops and bangs during the night, and (b.) seeing
cracks emerge between boards. The flooring company says these cracks
are
the normal results of cold(er) weather shrinkage and should close up
again
somewhat as weather warms in the spring. But I'm concerned. The vast
majority of the cracks/separations are less than the thickness of a
credit
card. But there are at least a dozen that two credit cards would fit
into,
and two or three that I can pretty easily fit four credit cards into.

My questions: are these separations indeed normal, particularly in a
mild
climate where nighttime temperatures don't get down much below 38? Can
I
actually expect the cracks to close back up in the spring (and then,
presumably, open up again next winter)? Did I lose any right to
complain
by
not waiting the full two weeks between installation and finishing? What
options do I have, as regards the appearance of these floors?

Jim Beaver

"Doug" wrote in message
ink.net...
Jim,
I have the "real" ash hardwood floors in my home. This was the first
winter that they went through. I installed it myself and there were some
gaps but not too many. 2 credit cards seems a little wide but not totally
unusual. Keep in mind that wood is a natural fiberous product that will
acclimate to it's environment...no matter what you try and do. Personally
I
prefer the look/sound of real wood floors any day compared to the
engineered
floors. If you wanted a gap free floor you should've put in pergo. As
long
as you're not snagging your socks on it I would view it as character.

I think this goes beyond "character." The number and width of the cracks
has increased so much that virtually everyone who steps into my house says,
"What's wrong with your floors?" My contractor (not the sub-contractor who
put the floors in) says he's never seen anything like it. I do in fact snag
my socks on the cracks, often and repeatedly. Two credit cards is now the
minimum width of the cracks--they've all widened to as much as four or five
credit-card thicknesses.

The waiver I signed read as follows: "It is recommended that the 1/2" x 2"
select red oak flooring have an acclimation period of two weeks after
installation. Due to time perimeters the contractor has chosen to have the
newly installed floors acclimate for only one week and shall hold [the
company] harmeless of any possible cupping or other natural conditions."

There is no sign of cupping. Just wide, wide cracks between probably forty
percent of the boards in the house. The flooring sub-contractor has stated
in his defense not that this is a serious flaw due to a shortened
acclimation time, but that these cracks are normal and will close up in the
summer (when it doesn't rain for months on end? How does that work?
They're shrinking during the most humid part of the year here in Southern
California.)

Any further ideas?

Jim Beaver

Jim Beaver wrote:

I think this goes beyond "character." The number and width of the
cracks has increased so much that virtually everyone who steps into
my house says, "What's wrong with your floors?" My contractor (not
the sub-contractor who put the floors in) says he's never seen
anything like it. I do in fact snag my socks on the cracks, often
and repeatedly. Two credit cards is now the minimum width of the
cracks--they've all widened to as much as four or five credit-card
thicknesses.

It seems to me that your floor is a bloody mess! Unfortunately. Can't say
I have a lot of experience with wood floors, only put in one but it has
*zero* gaps between planks winter or summer. And that's in Florida where
both heat and humidity vary markedly by season.

Seems to me that the gaps are way too much to be accounted for by seasonal
expansion and contraction (I'm assuming planks 2 1/4" or so). What else?
Don't know...improperly fastened maybe?

Were the joints tight after installation but before sanding? Could it be
that they weren't and sanding dust filled the joints when finished and has
worked out? Again, don't know, wouldn't think so unless they were oil
finished. In my case, I filled any gaps after installation (not many and
narrow) with a mix of sanding dust and lacquer. Those areas are still tight
too.
___________________________

The waiver I signed read as follows: "It is recommended that the
1/2" x 2" select red oak flooring have an acclimation period of two
weeks after installation. Due to time perimeters the contractor
has chosen to have the newly installed floors acclimate for only
one week and shall hold [the company] harmeless of any possible
cupping or other natural conditions."

OK, the company would seem to be off the hook. But not the contractor.
Frankly, I can't see another week's acclimation making that much difference.
Unless the stuff had been hosed down.
_____________________________

There is no sign of cupping. Just wide, wide cracks between
probably forty percent of the boards in the house. The flooring
sub-contractor has stated in his defense not that this is a serious
flaw due to a shortened acclimation time, but that these cracks are
normal and will close up in the summer (when it doesn't rain for
months on end? How does that work? They're shrinking during the
most humid part of the year here in Southern California.)

Any further ideas?

I sure wouldn't consider them "normal". If push is coming to shove, it
seems to me that you need an opinion as to cause from an impartial expert.
Not another contractor but I don't know what...engineer maybe?

I'd also be measuring the total width of cracks across a given area and
checking the maximum possible seasonal expansion/contraction against that.

Good luck...

--
dadiOH
_____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.0...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
____________________________

Your contractor shouldnt have allowed you to force the instal. But he
made you sign a waiver. So take it all up and re- lay the floor.