I am replacing an old stove. There is 220V power, but there is no
outlet on the wall behind the stove. The wires (encased in a flexible
metal conduit) were coming from under the floor, and they were
directly attached to the old stove. The sales person at Lowes told me
that that is no longer allowed by code, and that I have to install an
outlet and then use 3-prong plug to attach the stove to it. Can anyone
verify that? The old stove was a 'drop-in' kind, but the new one is a
floor unit, if that makes any difference to the situation.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
....
I am replacing an old stove. There is 220V power, but there is no
outlet on the wall behind the stove. The wires (encased in a flexible
metal conduit) were coming from under the floor, and they were
directly attached to the old stove. The sales person at Lowes told me
that that is no longer allowed by code, and that I have to install an
outlet and then use 3-prong plug to attach the stove to it. Can anyone
verify that? The old stove was a 'drop-in' kind, but the new one is a
floor unit, if that makes any difference to the situation.

I don't know about the code, but it is not a big deal to change. If the
wire is in BX, you can use a surface mounted receptacle and attach the
existing wires to it.

Hi,
Anyhow, you can buy a pig tail with plug and outlet in a square box.
Connect the wires to the outlet using clamp at the entry hole. Mount the
box recessed in the wall or in the floor and plug the pig tail.
Regardless of code, I'd do it for convenience.
Tony

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
I am replacing an old stove. There is 220V power, but there is no
outlet on the wall behind the stove. The wires (encased in a flexible
metal conduit) were coming from under the floor, and they were
directly attached to the old stove. The sales person at Lowes told me
that that is no longer allowed by code, and that I have to install an
outlet and then use 3-prong plug to attach the stove to it. Can anyone
verify that? The old stove was a 'drop-in' kind, but the new one is a
floor unit, if that makes any difference to the situation.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
m...
I am replacing an old stove. There is 220V power, but there is no
outlet on the wall behind the stove. The wires (encased in a flexible
metal conduit) were coming from under the floor, and they were
directly attached to the old stove. The sales person at Lowes told me
that that is no longer allowed by code, and that I have to install an
outlet and then use 3-prong plug to attach the stove to it. Can anyone
verify that? The old stove was a 'drop-in' kind, but the new one is a
floor unit, if that makes any difference to the situation.

All appliances require a means to disconnect them within sight of the
appliance, or a means to disconnect them and then lock them out.
A plug will obviously meet that requirement; but presumably your breaker
will accept a "lock-off" device.
So, my understanding is that the sales person is wrong in general; however,
your town may have more restrictive requirements than normal, or they might
not accept the "lock-off" device. I would call the town if you are
concerned.

I hate to throw in another complication, but current code requires both a
neutral and a ground, and you don't have them. Ordinarily you would not
need to update your wiring to meet current code if you were just attaching a
new stove, but if you change something on the circuit (such as installing an
outlet where there wasn't one before) the finished product must meet current
code. Again, your town may or may not enforce it this rigorously.

I just replaced my father in laws electric stove and the new stoves are 4 prong
not three. Make sure you find out which one your new stove will have before you
go buy anything.
Wade or anyone else do you know the reason for the neutral on 220V I don't
understand why it is needed. THough all you needed was two feeds of 110V and a
ground. Are they splitting the power and running the controls and clock on 110V
now?

"Randd01" wrote in message
...
I just replaced my father in laws electric stove and the new stoves are 4
prong
not three. Make sure you find out which one your new stove will have
before you
go buy anything.
Wade or anyone else do you know the reason for the neutral on 220V I don't
understand why it is needed. THough all you needed was two feeds of 110V
and a
ground. Are they splitting the power and running the controls and clock on
110V
now?


Exactly. The clock/timers/display panel and interior lite, if you have one,
runs on 120V.
They have been for some time, I think.
Dave

thanks!

Whereas On 23 Oct 2003 10:20:13 GMT, (Randd01)
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I just replaced my father in laws electric stove and the new stoves are 4 prong
not three. Make sure you find out which one your new stove will have before you
go buy anything.
Wade or anyone else do you know the reason for the neutral on 220V I don't
understand why it is needed. THough all you needed was two feeds of 110V and a
ground. Are they splitting the power and running the controls and clock on 110V
now?

tHe are using the neutral to power clocks and such. For new
installations, the code no longer allows using the ground as the
neutral for a stove, but if it is two wires + ground there, you can
install an old style recepticle there, and install an old style cord
on the stove.
--
Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
...
Whereas On 23 Oct 2003 10:20:13 GMT, (Randd01)
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I just replaced my father in laws electric stove and the new stoves are 4
prong
not three. Make sure you find out which one your new stove will have
before you
go buy anything.
Wade or anyone else do you know the reason for the neutral on 220V I
don't
understand why it is needed. THough all you needed was two feeds of 110V
and a
ground. Are they splitting the power and running the controls and clock
on 110V
now?

tHe are using the neutral to power clocks and such. For new
installations, the code no longer allows using the ground as the
neutral for a stove, but if it is two wires + ground there, you can
install an old style recepticle there, and install an old style cord
on the stove.

Also, when installing a 3-wire (old style) cord on a range or dryer it is
very critical that the (factory) jumper be connected from the neutral
terminal (on the terminal block) to the appliance frame...........otherwise
the frame will _not_ be grounded.

"volts500" wrote in message
m...

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
...
Whereas On 23 Oct 2003 10:20:13 GMT, (Randd01)
scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
I just replaced my father in laws electric stove and the new stoves are
4
prong
not three. Make sure you find out which one your new stove will have
before you
go buy anything.
Wade or anyone else do you know the reason for the neutral on 220V I
don't
understand why it is needed. THough all you needed was two feeds of
110V
and a
ground. Are they splitting the power and running the controls and clock
on 110V
now?

tHe are using the neutral to power clocks and such. For new
installations, the code no longer allows using the ground as the
neutral for a stove, but if it is two wires + ground there, you can
install an old style recepticle there, and install an old style cord
on the stove.

Also, when installing a 3-wire (old style) cord on a range or dryer it is
very critical that the (factory) jumper be connected from the neutral
terminal (on the terminal block) to the appliance
frame...........otherwise
the frame will _not_ be grounded.

This is Turtle.

Is it legal to combine the Neutral and the ground at the receptical behind
the stove and not go all the way back to switch box with the extra ground or
neutral / making 4 wire system Hot,hot,Ground, and Neutral?

TURTLE

According to Wade Lippman :
All appliances require a means to disconnect them within sight of the
appliance, or a means to disconnect them and then lock them out.
A plug will obviously meet that requirement; but presumably your breaker
will accept a "lock-off" device.
So, my understanding is that the sales person is wrong in general; however,
your town may have more restrictive requirements than normal, or they might
not accept the "lock-off" device. I would call the town if you are
concerned.

Here (Canada) whenever you replaced a stove or dryer you _had_ to install a
4-wire outlet, full stop. This dates back at least 30 years.

I hate to throw in another complication, but current code requires both a
neutral and a ground, and you don't have them. Ordinarily you would not
need to update your wiring to meet current code if you were just attaching a
new stove, but if you change something on the circuit (such as installing an
outlet where there wasn't one before) the finished product must meet current
code. Again, your town may or may not enforce it this rigorously.

As I understand it, while Canada insists on going to 4 wire on ALL installations
(or renovations), US code has grandfathered 3 wire to the point where just
putting an outlet on a 3-wire circuit won't require an upgrade to 4-wire. Ask
an inspector to be sure. This will probably vary widely from place to place.

[This is despite the fact that in the US, they permit you to treat conduit as
a ground, hence a conduited 3-wire circuit is trivially upgradeable to 4 wire,
but in Canada, you cannot (legally) use conduit as a grounding conductor.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.