"Alan Illeman" wrote in message
...
Sears in Toronto, Canada has a special on until July 12th:
Kenmore 30" Self-Cleaning Electric Range
Regular 739.99, $599.99
Kenmore 16.5 Cu. Ft. Top Freezer Refigerator
Regular 799.99, $599.99

The wife has her eye on these and I need some ammunition
from you guys to stop this buying spree (it's not as if our
present stove and fridge have anything wrong with them,
except age).
==
You're gonna shoot her?
==
==

"Alan Illeman" wrote in message
...
Sears in Toronto, Canada has a special on until July 12th:
Kenmore 30" Self-Cleaning Electric Range
Regular 739.99, $599.99
Kenmore 16.5 Cu. Ft. Top Freezer Refigerator
Regular 799.99, $599.99

The wife has her eye on these and I need some ammunition
from you guys to stop this buying spree (it's not as if our
present stove and fridge have anything wrong with them,
except age).

how old? newer ones are better on consumption.

Punch

Alan Illeman wrote:

Sears in Toronto, Canada has a special on until July 12th:
Kenmore 30" Self-Cleaning Electric Range
Regular 739.99, $599.99
Kenmore 16.5 Cu. Ft. Top Freezer Refigerator
Regular 799.99, $599.99

The wife has her eye on these and I need some ammunition
from you guys to stop this buying spree (it's not as if our
present stove and fridge have anything wrong with them,
except age).

If there's a single electronic gizmo on either, a friend of mine is
waiting on the 5th service call for a Kenmore microwave purchased three
weeks ago... and installed ($$$) by Sears.

On a good day, a technician actually shows up.

The wife has her eye on these and I need some ammunition
from you guys to stop this buying spree (it's not as if our
present stove and fridge have anything wrong with them,
except age).

How long have you been married? If it's more than a year, you should know
this is a losing battle.

Kenmore products are a love-hate sort of thing -- I've had great luck with
them and like them a lot, so I buy them. The flip side is that Sears
products are nearly always overpriced and you can find better priced items
elsewhere.

The refrigerator is tiny by US standards, even at that cost. Down here I
wouldn't settle for anything less than 22 cubic feet. We'll be buying one
soon and we we're looking at 25 cubic feet, side-by-side, filtered water/ice
for around $800 US -- we're just wating to get the bucks together as we
decided to hold off until we could get what we wanted (rather than settling
for less).

We're also looking at a pilotless gas range for just under $300 US to
replace our existing unit.

In our case, the appliances we have are nothing less than 15 years old -- I
believe they're both nearly 20 years old. There will be an immediate cost
savings realized in energy efficiency alone.

Wait a sec...I'm not helping your argument here, am I? :P

James

Punch wrote in message . ..

"Alan Illeman" wrote in message
...
Sears in Toronto, Canada has a special on until July 12th:
Kenmore 30" Self-Cleaning Electric Range
Regular 739.99, $599.99
Kenmore 16.5 Cu. Ft. Top Freezer Refigerator
Regular 799.99, $599.99

The wife has her eye on these and I need some ammunition
from you guys to stop this buying spree (it's not as if our
present stove and fridge have anything wrong with them,
except age).

how old? newer ones are better on consumption.

Punch

I can perhaps understand a fridge being better, but a stove ?

"Alan Illeman" wrote in message

How can there be _any_ energy efficiency in a newer stove? It still uses
electricity and if I'm not mistaken, uses resistance heating. Assuming
that
I'll be using the same cooking temperatures with the new one, as I did
with
the old, where are the savings ??

You are mistaken. He mentioned "Pilotless" so he is talking gas. If the old
one has a pilot, there will be savings. The oven is probably better
insulated anyway, but that would be minor.



Do you have any figures on "energy efficent fridges" comparing new to
our 20-year old one. I guess the design of the compressor could have
changed in those years, but I doubt the principles that dictate how it
works, have. I guess there could be better overall insulation,

Technology h as improved considerably in both areas. In my case, replacing
an old fridge with one that has 50% larger capacity, frost free, resulted in
a savings of $12 a month. Look at any appliance that uses a sealed system
compressor. Don't take my word for it, do a little research nd you will be
impressed.


but my
suspicion is that manufacturers would skimp on factors that would make
such a common household appliance last longer -- it's counterproductive
to sales and the bottom line, in this global economy.

Better efficiency and durability are not necessarily related.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

How can there be _any_ energy efficiency in a newer stove? It still uses
electricity and if I'm not mistaken, uses resistance heating. Assuming
that
I'll be using the same cooking temperatures with the new one, as I did
with
the old, where are the savings ??

Coils are more efficient, thermostats are more efficient, they're better
insulated, and new designs make better use of the heat. I've no idea how
much of a cost savings that will translate into with an electric power
range/oven set. In our case, the cost savings will be substantial as we'll
be going from a 20 year old double oven pilot based unit to a single oven,
pilotless, electronic ignition unit.

Do you have any figures on "energy efficent fridges" comparing new to
our 20-year old one. I guess the design of the compressor could have
changed in those years, but I doubt the principles that dictate how it
works, have. I guess there could be better overall insulation, but my
suspicion is that manufacturers would skimp on factors that would make
such a common household appliance last longer -- it's counterproductive
to sales and the bottom line, in this global economy.

Wow -- you must not have started looking yet. The new fridges are very
different from the old ones and the cost savings are significant. Most
folks I've talked to that updated from a 20 or so year old model realized a
$10-$20US savings in their monthly electrical bill.

James

JNJ wrote in message ...
How can there be _any_ energy efficiency in a newer stove? It still uses
electricity and if I'm not mistaken, uses resistance heating. Assuming
that
I'll be using the same cooking temperatures with the new one, as I did
with
the old, where are the savings ??

Coils are more efficient, thermostats are more efficient, they're better
insulated, and new designs make better use of the heat. I've no idea how
much of a cost savings that will translate into with an electric power
range/oven set. In our case, the cost savings will be substantial as we'll
be going from a 20 year old double oven pilot based unit to a single oven,
pilotless, electronic ignition unit.

Do you have any figures on "energy efficent fridges" comparing new to
our 20-year old one. I guess the design of the compressor could have
changed in those years, but I doubt the principles that dictate how it
works, have. I guess there could be better overall insulation, but my
suspicion is that manufacturers would skimp on factors that would make
such a common household appliance last longer -- it's counterproductive
to sales and the bottom line, in this global economy.

Wow -- you must not have started looking yet. The new fridges are very
different from the old ones and the cost savings are significant. Most
folks I've talked to that updated from a 20 or so year old model realized a
$10-$20US savings in their monthly electrical bill.

I took my wife to Home Show Canada (on Weston Road, Toronto) and saw
there stoves and fridges of better quality than the 'specials' offered by
Sears, so she is off the hook to buy by today.

One thing I did notice was that all the oven timers I saw where only for
a maximum of 12 hours. Since we are now both retired that doesn't
matter but if we where still both working, where we left home before
6 am and returned after 6pm, a 12-hour timer is useless. Having a
background in industrial electronics, I find it hard to believe a 24 hour
timer is not available.

The other thing that I liked was that all the stoves were on wheels, but
not the fridges, I may add !!!

Some of the stoves had what appeared to be a vent in the door and
when I asked a rep, he said that all ovens have vents ?? Well ours
certainly doesn't. We got very poor answers on other items in the
store but looking at their website under 'employment' I see they only
pay the reps $7.85/hr which is rock-bottom minimum wage, and no
wonder the answers we got.

We were also impressed with the furniture from "Decor Rest" of
Woodbridge (near Toronto)

Anyway, from the your comments and others here, we are a little
more knowledable on this subject, and thankful for your replies.

Alan

Al , friges are on wheels to, you just dont see them, I recomend you
check out consumer reports and pay the online fee, there are alot to
choose from and a salesman aint gonna test em. There are alot of
different types of elec ranges, I dought you will save much in elec ,
but in friges check the yellow tags inside for consumption, .. do some
research you have so many options these days, even if you did purchase
today you can always tell them to wait on you order ,,,,have a nice day