Hi.

I'm preparing to rip up my nasty old green carpeting in the house, and
need some suggestions.

I've decided to go with wood laminate, as I have two big labrador
retrievers who have big sharp nails and like to chase each other
around.

I've narrowed it down to either Wilsonart or Mannington since I've
heard good things about both. Would it be better to pick a 20 year
warantee model over a 15 year? I understand the construction is
better on the 20 year ones vs 15.

I am looking at ordering through either fastfloors.com diyflooring.com
ifloor.com or internetfloors.com. They all seem to have roughly the
same ending price including shipping.

Is there any way that I can save some money, like maybe by using some
other brand's underlayment (I was told it didn't matter which brand
you use, as long as you use the right type for the subfloor).

Any suggestions overall?

I've been looking into replacing our kitchen ceramic tile with a
laminate. However almost everyone I've talked to say this is a bad
idea.

Not only does it not wear too well and look bad when scratched, but if
it gets wet it will swell and turn real ugly on you. Water (or dog
pee) cannot be allowed to seep into the under layer of composite
material.

So I'm going with real wood. Once I get the tile up that is...


On 29 Jun 2003 07:36:58 -0700, (Russ) wrote:

Hi.

I'm preparing to rip up my nasty old green carpeting in the house, and
need some suggestions.

I've decided to go with wood laminate, as I have two big labrador
retrievers who have big sharp nails and like to chase each other
around.

I've narrowed it down to either Wilsonart or Mannington since I've
heard good things about both. Would it be better to pick a 20 year
warantee model over a 15 year? I understand the construction is
better on the 20 year ones vs 15.

I am looking at ordering through either fastfloors.com diyflooring.com
ifloor.com or internetfloors.com. They all seem to have roughly the
same ending price including shipping.

Is there any way that I can save some money, like maybe by using some
other brand's underlayment (I was told it didn't matter which brand
you use, as long as you use the right type for the subfloor).

Any suggestions overall?

"'nuther Bob " wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:25:10 -0700, davefr wrote:

Either train the dogs, clip their fingernails, or use throw rugs.
When laminate flooring gets scratched it looks like crap.

I agree - use solid wood so that you can refinish it as often
as needed.

Bob

How does "engineered" flooring hold up? I understand it actually has a real
wood face.

js

Are the people who have said these things giving advice based on their
laminate floors, or are they just perpetuating these things? I have the
cheapest laminate flooring you can buy in my kitchen (well, not the
cheapest, but close to it - Ikea Tundra with a 15 year warranty) and my dogs
(both with long nails when I don't get around to trimming them often enough)
have never came close to scratching the floor. I've had the floor for a
number of years now and it looks as good today as it did new. As for the
water ruining the floor - yeah I'm sure it could if you use the non-glued
together flooring *and* let a large amount of liquid sit and eventually seep
in.

So it is not true that laminate flooring does "not wear too well" and
although I'm sure it would look bad if scratched, it's almost impossible to
scratch it. Just last month I dragged a new refrigerator over it, and
removed the old one. Not a scratch left behind. But I guess I'm just lucky?

"Tim" wrote in message
news
I've been looking into replacing our kitchen ceramic tile with a
laminate. However almost everyone I've talked to say this is a bad
idea.

Not only does it not wear too well and look bad when scratched, but if
it gets wet it will swell and turn real ugly on you. Water (or dog
pee) cannot be allowed to seep into the under layer of composite
material.

So I'm going with real wood. Once I get the tile up that is...


On 29 Jun 2003 07:36:58 -0700, (Russ) wrote:

Hi.

I'm preparing to rip up my nasty old green carpeting in the house, and
need some suggestions.

I've decided to go with wood laminate, as I have two big labrador
retrievers who have big sharp nails and like to chase each other
around.

I've narrowed it down to either Wilsonart or Mannington since I've
heard good things about both. Would it be better to pick a 20 year
warantee model over a 15 year? I understand the construction is
better on the 20 year ones vs 15.

I am looking at ordering through either fastfloors.com diyflooring.com
ifloor.com or internetfloors.com. They all seem to have roughly the
same ending price including shipping.

Is there any way that I can save some money, like maybe by using some
other brand's underlayment (I was told it didn't matter which brand
you use, as long as you use the right type for the subfloor).

Any suggestions overall?

That's what I have (ie Kahrs) and it's supurb.

The factory finish is superior to anything that can be applied in the
field and small scratches don't even show. (unlike laminates). If
these floors ever do need finishing, you have plenty of wood to work
with.

My Kahrs kitchen floor is 12 years old and it's endured multiple dogs
and cats. It looks in showroom condition.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:16:31 -0700, "Slar" wrote:


"'nuther Bob " wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:25:10 -0700, davefr wrote:

Either train the dogs, clip their fingernails, or use throw rugs.
When laminate flooring gets scratched it looks like crap.

I agree - use solid wood so that you can refinish it as often
as needed.

Bob

How does "engineered" flooring hold up? I understand it actually has a real
wood face.

js

On 29 Jun 2003 07:36:58 -0700, (Russ) wrote:

I've decided to go with wood laminate, as I have two big labrador
retrievers who have big sharp nails and like to chase each other
around.

I'm far from an expert, but I did replace our living room carpet with
laminate a year ago, with pretty good results. Here are my comments.

I've narrowed it down to either Wilsonart or Mannington since I've
heard good things about both. Would it be better to pick a 20 year
warantee model over a 15 year? I understand the construction is
better on the 20 year ones vs 15.

Basically, all the laminates come with no warranty. Yeah, I know they all
say they have 15- or 20-year warranties, but when you read the actual text
of the warranty, you find out that it's really no warranty at all.

The only thing they warrant is that it won't wear through some significant
surface area to some significant degree Some of the warranties require a
wear-through of 2 square inches before the warranty is breached. Ours
requires 1 square centimeter, which is a little better, but still pretty
damned unlikely.

The warranty also excludes damage from scratches and falling objects, or
water.

And what does the warranty get you? A $5 replacement board for the one
board that's worn through. Installation is your problem.

No, the best warranty you can get on laminate flooring is to buy an extra
box of matching planks and store it.

And forget about using the warranty as a selling point when you sell your
home. It applies only to the original purchaser.

Don't get me wrong: I have no regrets about our laminate floor. It's just
that the warranties are scams.

I am looking at ordering through either fastfloors.com diyflooring.com
ifloor.com or internetfloors.com. They all seem to have roughly the
same ending price including shipping.

I shopped local and found an extraordinary price of about $2/Sq. foot.
That was slightly better than the best deal I found on the Internet, and
it was patronizing a local store (which also has the advantage that I can
go down and scream at him in person if I needed to, but I didn't).

Is there any way that I can save some money, like maybe by using some
other brand's underlayment (I was told it didn't matter which brand
you use, as long as you use the right type for the subfloor).

The underlayment is a pretty small proportion of the cost, so a
substantial savings there is going to be a small savings overall.

As someone else pointed out, the matching moldings are exorbitantly
priced. We went out and bought plain pine trim, and we applied Minwax
stain/polyurethane to make it a rich dark and glossy color. We gave up on
trying to match the flooring, and found that, as long as our trim was at
least as dark as the flooring, it made a nice framing effect.

A pain in the ass, though; it was priming, sanding, then three cycles of
staining, steel-wooling, staining, steel-wooling and staining a third
time. But the end result was worth it.

We again avoided the matching laminate transition strips where the floor
ran up against the adjoining tile, and used a brass strip instead.

Any suggestions overall?

I take it this is for a living room or some such, right? I'd be hesitant
to put laminate in a kitchen due to reported problems with water, and
kitchens are great sites for spills. OTOH, I've never put it in a kitchen
so perhaps others who have can comment more (In my research, one person
had put laminate at their entryway, and regretted it. He lived in an area
with significant winter snowfall, and kids tracking in snow made for
substantial warping.)

If you're absolutely sold on using laminate in a kitchen you pretty much
must go for the glue-together type. The laminate itself is waterproof,
and the glue is waterproof, so if you put it together completely
correctly, the result is, in theory, waterproof. But I wouldn;t want to
test that. When we redo our kitchen, we'll probably do linoleum again.

The laminate brand we used was Columbia Clic, and I needed to call them
for questions on one issue (due to some problems with my subfloor, not
their product). The gentleman I spoke to was quite helpful.

I gotta disagree with Davefr and Bob on one point: the Laminate we have
seems extremely scratch resistant. Granted, we've only had it a year, but
a year later, it still looks new. It has one scratch, where I set down a
computer too abruptly (moving furniture out of adjoining rooms prepping
for new carpet), and the corner of the case caught the floor, and
scratched it as if I'd taken a screwdriver to it. The scratch is barely
visible. I just went into the other room to look for it, and it took a
long time, even though I knew to within a square yard where it had to be.

I've moved a piano across the floor, with no ill effects.

Good luck!

"Tim" wrote in message
news
I've been looking into replacing our kitchen ceramic tile with a
laminate. However almost everyone I've talked to say this is a bad
idea.

Not only does it not wear too well and look bad when scratched, but if
it gets wet it will swell and turn real ugly on you. Water (or dog
pee) cannot be allowed to seep into the under layer of composite
material.

So I'm going with real wood. Once I get the tile up that is...


Real wood has the potential to swell, laminate is plastic and will not swell
at all. Soak a piece or each in water as see the results and judge for
yourself.

Real wood is very nice. It will take more care than any laminate. It will,
however, look better if properly cared for.

As for laminates, I installed WilsonArt in my foyer, stairs, landing to the
kitchen. This is the most heavily traveled section of the house. In five
years of traffic, you cannot see any signs of wear, scratches, color
changes, or anything else. It honestly looks as good as the day it was
installed.

FWIW, I'm going to install Mannington engineered wood in my family room. It
is on a slab and needs just a vapor barrier. Wish they had this five years
ago to use where I used the laminate. It is superior in appearance to the
cheaper brands. I pick it up on Wednesday and hope to get it done over the
weekend.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

On 29 Jun 2003 07:36:58 -0700, (Russ) wrote:

Hi.

I'm preparing to rip up my nasty old green carpeting in the house, and
need some suggestions.

I've decided to go with wood laminate, as I have two big labrador
retrievers who have big sharp nails and like to chase each other
around.


Get the cheapest you can find because whatever you get it will quickly
become damaged.

"davefr" wrote in message
...
: Either train the dogs, clip their fingernails, or use throw rugs.
: When laminate flooring gets scratched it looks like crap.
:
: Wilsonart and Mannington get good feedback.
:
: To save money, try and minimize use of any specialty moldiings. These
: things are outragously priced. (often costing again as much as the
: flooring). You need to insure the floor floats w/clearance around the
: entire perimeter but that doesn't mean you have to use to
: manufacturer's moldings.

It could be wise to reinforce the walls so *they* stand up to the body slams
of large dogs that lose it on the turns! (Splat! Thunk!)

Any better-line laminate top layer will out last any dawg and survive
tremendous abuse without scratching. The stuff is tough.

Our Pergo Original has easily stood up to over seven years of rough service
and "sluffed off" attacks from a thundering heard of cats, cactus needles
and sand and stones. (Even if you should manage to do the extremely
difficult and scratch the surface layer, a plank can be replaced.)

The engineered wood flooring *can* be sanded down (likely only one time
before grinding the veneer away) and refinished in-place. And that's a good
feature since the (actually good!) top finish surface can't compare to the
laminates such as Wilsonart, Pergo, Monsanto etc. (Good luck on matching the
original finish!) Solid woods, naturally, allow far more sanding depth.

I Totally Agree on avoiding the money trap of using the mfr's speciality
trim work -- not only is it horridly over-priced but it usually looks
crappy. If you have a table saw & a router you can mill your own and get a
far better fit and finish :-) I went so far as to totally remove all of the
original baseboards when the laminate went down this allowed the required
gap for the floating floor to be concealed under the new baseboard without
any "build-out".

++ Side Note: Pergo used to sell a 1/4" underlayment material they called
"Whisper Walk". It's a sound-deadening material that goes between the
plastic vapor barrier sheeting and the actual flooring. It's truly worth
while to use it -- all it really was is re-branded Homosote. The Homosote
is *much* better at providing a cushion effect (and absorbing sound) than
the standard-issue underlayments with the styrofoam "BBs" in it.
--
Steve
www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
Mesa, AZ
Penury Is the Mother of Invention

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
: On 29 Jun 2003 07:36:58 -0700, (Russ) wrote:
:
: Get the cheapest you can find because whatever you get it will quickly
: become damaged.

ANYONE who is capable of *that* should stay with Dirt Floors and have the
added benefit that they can bury their trash in-place and rake it over.

I shudder to think of what a slob like that would do to an oak or Southern
Yellow Pine floor!

--
Steve
www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
Mesa, AZ
Penury Is the Mother of Invention