I cannot get my water heater out without removing a couple of feet of natural gas black piping, 1-inch OD. The pipe goes horizontally into the wall, joins with an el, and then proceeds vertically down. There is a bracket on the el, fastening the el to a 2x4. How risky is it to put my large pipe wrench on the pipe and try to unscrew the pipe, and then screw it back into place? Is this just damned foolish?

Plan B is to take out wallboard so I can get a second wrench on the el.

On Fri, 7 Oct 2016 19:13:34 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I cannot get my water heater out without removing a couple of feet of natural gas black piping, 1-inch OD. The pipe goes horizontally into the wall, joins with an el, and then proceeds vertically down. There is a bracket on the el, fastening the el to a 2x4. How risky is it to put my large pipe wrench on the pipe and try to unscrew the pipe, and then screw it back into place? Is this just damned foolish?

Plan B is to take out wallboard so I can get a second wrench on the el.


If you go with plan A, can you get to the fitting to check for leaks
once reassembled? If so, it may not be much risk if the pipe comes
apart readily. It is critical though, that you can check for leaks
after.

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 6:29:44 AM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If you go with plan A, can you get to the fitting to check for leaks
once reassembled? If so, it may not be much risk if the pipe comes
apart readily. It is critical though, that you can check for leaks
after.

Thank you, Ed. Good point about leak testing. Wallboard tape was covering much of the hole where the pipe penetrates. I removed the tape and now have a much better view and access to the pipe-to-el joint. The bracket around the el looks very secure, like the installer was anticipating someone unscrewing the pipe.

Is it worth soaking the joint in PB Blaster before I put some torque on the pipe? Or is that, again, a damned foolish move?

I have done some pipe work in the past and am a pretty good DIY auto mechanic.

Unfortunately, this is inside my condominium, and I have no shutoff valve for this work, other than the gas company's, located at the meter. I have to make an appointment with the gas company to shut off the gas and turn it on again, same day or maybe a day apart. Afterwards, I will be billed $70. Apparently there are a few tricks to turning the gas back on in particular. I do not want to risk the gas company giving me grief operating their valve, and figuring out "turn on" procedures, myself.

One of the things I am going to do is install a shutoff valve very close to the wall, so this all is much easier next time someone wants to pull the water heater or furnace out of the closet they share in my condo.

On 10/08/2016 1:13 PM, wrote:
....

One of the things I am going to do is install a shutoff valve very
close to the wall, so this all is much easier next time someone wants
to pull the water heater or furnace out of the closet they share in
my condo.

Good plan. If the piping arrangement is really such that you cannot
avoid moving this section to remove the tank, when you put the valve in
also put in a union that can be separated on the heater side so can
disconnect the pipes simply and replace the heater.

On 10/8/2016 2:13 PM, wrote:


Is it worth soaking the joint in PB Blaster before I put some torque on the pipe? Or is that, again, a damned foolish move?


Don't know it it will help, but won't hurt.


I have done some pipe work in the past and am a pretty good DIY auto mechanic.

Unfortunately, this is inside my condominium, and I have no shutoff valve for this work, other than the gas company's, located at the meter. I have to make an appointment with the gas company to shut off the gas and turn it on again, same day or maybe a day apart. Afterwards, I will be billed $70. Apparently there are a few tricks to turning the gas back on in particular. I do not want to risk the gas company giving me grief operating their valve, and figuring out "turn on" procedures, myself.

One of the things I am going to do is install a shutoff valve very close to the wall, so this all is much easier next time someone wants to pull the water heater or furnace out of the closet they share in my condo.


Good idea. Should have been installed like that but the installer saved
$3.

Turning the gas back on is not really a big deal. You have to be sure
any pilot lights are lit and lines purged of air.

On 10/7/16 9:13 PM, wrote:
I cannot get my water heater out without removing a couple of feet of
natural gas black piping, 1-inch OD. The pipe goes horizontally into
the wall, joins with an el, and then proceeds vertically down. There
is a bracket on the el, fastening the el to a 2x4. How risky is it to
put my large pipe wrench on the pipe and try to unscrew the pipe, and
then screw it back into place? Is this just damned foolish?

Plan B is to take out wallboard so I can get a second wrench on the
el.

Do you have room for the old double hammer trick? Hold a larger
hammer against the el. Hit the el a few times with a smaller one.
Do it from different sides/angles if possible.

dpb, good idea about the union. Thank you.

Ed, thank you for the further input.

Now here's a question that you folks feel free to inform me qualifies for the dumbest post of the month:

I see the gas line pressure is low, like 1 psi at most. Would it be damned foolish to replace this pipe without turning off the gas? I think the horizontal force on the pipe that I would be "fighting" when threading would be on the order of Pi*(0.5 inch)^2 * 1 psi =~ 1 pound.

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 1:39:54 PM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Do you have room for the old double hammer trick? Hold a larger
hammer against the el. Hit the el a few times with a smaller one.
Do it from different sides/angles if possible.

Dean, do you mean to help free the pipe from the El? Good suggestion. I think I can rig up a way to apply some blows.

Ed, thank you for the further suggestions.

Dpb, good idea about the union. I am on it.

Anyone seeing my post (now deleted) about trying to replace the pipe with the gas on, just call me stupid. I think I will study up, turn off the gas myself at the meter, do my work, and then try to get the gas back on. This site does not even talk about an air purge when going to turn the gas back on: http://www.wikihow.com/Cap-a-Gas-Line . But other sites talk about having to relieve a regulator or similar of air when turning the gas back on. Comments on the point are welcome. It's warm enough here that I am not worried about being without the furnace and water heater for a couple of days. I take my showers at the pool, mostly, besides and use little hot water.

On 10/8/2016 3:55 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 1:39:54 PM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Do you have room for the old double hammer trick? Hold a larger
hammer against the el. Hit the el a few times with a smaller one.
Do it from different sides/angles if possible.

Dean, do you mean to help free the pipe from the El? Good suggestion. I think I can rig up a way to apply some blows.

Ed, thank you for the further suggestions.

Dpb, good idea about the union. I am on it.

Anyone seeing my post (now deleted) about trying to replace the pipe with the gas on, just call me stupid. I think I will study up, turn off the gas myself at the meter, do my work, and then try to get the gas back on. This site does not even talk about an air purge when going to turn the gas back on: http://www.wikihow.com/Cap-a-Gas-Line . But other sites talk about having to relieve a regulator or similar of air when turning the gas back on. Comments on the point are welcome. It's warm enough here that I am not worried about being without the furnace and water heater for a couple of days. I take my showers at the pool, mostly, besides and use little hot water.


Depends where you break the line. Regulator should not be affected.
Only air is where you opened the line. Water heater should purge itself
when you put it back on line to start.

On 10/8/16 2:55 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 1:39:54 PM UTC-6, Dean Hoffman
wrote:
Do you have room for the old double hammer trick? Hold a larger
hammer against the el. Hit the el a few times with a smaller
one. Do it from different sides/angles if possible.

Dean, do you mean to help free the pipe from the El? Good suggestion.
I think I can rig up a way to apply some blows.

Yes. The shock of the blows helps to loosen things. It works a
lot better with the second hammer as a backstop.

Ed, thank you for the further suggestions.

Dpb, good idea about the union. I am on it.

Anyone seeing my post (now deleted) about trying to replace the pipe
with the gas on, just call me stupid. I think I will study up, turn
off the gas myself at the meter, do my work, and then try to get the
gas back on. This site does not even talk about an air purge when
going to turn the gas back on: http://www.wikihow.com/Cap-a-Gas-Line
. But other sites talk about having to relieve a regulator or similar
of air when turning the gas back on. Comments on the point are
welcome. It's warm enough here that I am not worried about being
without the furnace and water heater for a couple of days. I take my
showers at the pool, mostly, besides and use little hot water.

On Sat, 8 Oct 2016 12:45:06 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

dpb, good idea about the union. Thank you.

Ed, thank you for the further input.

Now here's a question that you folks feel free to inform me qualifies for the dumbest post of the month:

I see the gas line pressure is low, like 1 psi at most. Would it be damned foolish to replace this pipe without turning off the gas? I think the horizontal force on the pipe that I would be "fighting" when threading would be on the order of Pi*(0.5 inch)^2 * 1 psi =~ 1 pound.
Yes. it WOULD be stupid even at half a PSI there can be a LOT of flow
from a 1 inch pipe - and it doesn't take much to make a flamable
mixture - or much to light it.

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 4:11:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Oct 2016 12:45:06 -0700 (PDT), honda.lioness wrote (and then deleted):
I see the gas line pressure is low, like 1 psi at most. Would it be damned foolish to replace this pipe without turning off the gas? I think the horizontal force on the pipe that I would be "fighting" when threading would be on the order of Pi*(0.5 inch)^2 * 1 psi =~ 1 pound.
Yes. it WOULD be stupid even at half a PSI there can be a LOT of flow
from a 1 inch pipe - and it doesn't take much to make a flamable
mixture - or much to light it.

Thank you, . This helps a lot.

Dean, understood.

I did the job a little while ago, finishing in less than two hours. The meter valve was kinda stiff but I got it shut. At the pipe joint I delivered several small-blows all around the circumference using a good-sized hammer and an old, blunt chisel.I oriented my 18-inch pipe wrench so the 2x4 was bracing the el and vertical length of pipe. The pipe freed easily. I fitted the new valve with a an assortment of nipples, all purchased at Home Depot. I forewent the union for now. Parts cost me $20 and 1/4 tube of blue gas line pipe dope. I opened the valve at the meter, checked for leaks valve by valve, line by line, purged a bit by running the furnace, then lit the water heater. It fired up nicely once I hit the shower. Still no signs of gas leaks. I am pleased as punch and ready to replace the water heater sometime in the next few months. (Water heaters are all the same age at my condo community and are failing right and left.) Thank you again Ed, dpb, Dean, and cl. It's a load off my mind.

On Sat, 8 Oct 2016 12:45:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Now here's a question that you folks feel free to inform me qualifies for the dumbest post of the month:

Bad idea, but I dont understand why you cant go to the meter and shut
off the gas valve yourself..... It's a one minute job, and they want
$70. That's robbery!

After watching a plumber replace a hot water tank with the gas on, at a friends I did mine the same way.

the gas pressure is in ounces, so if you unscrew a line, you can put your finger over it to stop the gas flow

have doors and windows open, no problem at all....

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 11:03:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 8 Oct 2016 12:45:06 -0700 (PDT), honda.lioness wrote:

Now here's a question that you folks feel free to inform me qualifies for the dumbest post of the month:

Bad idea, but I dont understand why you cant go to the meter and shut
off the gas valve yourself..... It's a one minute job, and they want
$70. That's robbery!


I know. I suppose they want to prevent damage to their system and, where the gas is to be turned off for awhile, want to make sure people do their purge right. If I get busted for operating the valve, I will post back.

Bob Haller, interesting. I was wondering if I had the force about right. I would have had to quickly unscrew the old pipe and then, having installed the shutoff valve on the new pipe with its threads blue sealant doped, quickly screwed in the new pipe. But the big issue to me is whether I would have had any hiccups in the process. You know, like cross-threading. It was a 3/4-inch nominal ID line. That does seem to promise a lot of gas, like cl...@snyder wrote. Then again, I suppose I could have had a long large rag handy to stuff in the pipeline if I did have a hiccup, whence I could go shut the valve at the gas meter. Dunno. All of my words in this post tell me I am trying to rationalize an unsafe practice, so I should not think of doing this.

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 11:03:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Bad idea, but I dont understand why you cant go to the meter and shut
off the gas valve yourself..... It's a one minute job, and they want
$70. That's robbery!

It is not a 1 minute job for the utility. $70 is really a fair price
when you factor in travel time, truck, etc.


If you think it is a 1 minute job I'll give you 5 bucks to go do it.
Works out to $300 an hour. Willing to go?

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 07:39:22 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I know. I suppose they want to prevent damage to their system and, where the gas is
to be turned off for awhile, want to make sure people do their purge right. If I get
busted for operating the valve, I will post back.

How are you gonna get busted. Unless you are on the "Wanted" list and
have the cops watching your house....

Everyone who lives in a house, homeowner, or tenant, should know where
and how to shut off their gas at the meter, and should have a wrench
handy to do it. In the event of a gas leak, or there is a fire in the
home, or during an approaching hurricane or tornado, EVERYONE should be
able to, and have the know-how and means to shut off their gas, and do
so immediately. I highly doubt it's illegal, but the gas company is
always willing to make a buck, and shut it off for you at a high cost to
the customer.

I assume you know how to operate the valve.....
(If the rectangular piece is parallel to the pipe (points in same
direction as the pipe, the gas is ON. You want that valve handle to
point so it's opposite the direction of the pipe (forms a cross), to be
OFF.)

Once the gas is off, do all your work, make sure to use pipe dope and
tighten all fittings tightly. (I was told to NOT use teflon tape on gas
pipes, but then I've heard that is no longer true, so I'm not sure).
Either way, to be safe, just buy a $2 container of liquid pipe dope).

Once the gas is turned back on, purge the lines by holding down the
pilot light red button, until the pilot lights. Then mix about a
teaspoon of dish soap in a half cup of water and brush it on each
fitting with a small paint brush or squirt it with a pump sprayer. Watch
for bubbles. If you get bubbles at any fitting, or valve, you have a
loose fitting or bad valve which needs to be fixed immediately.

Working with gas pipes is a lot easier than with steel water pipes,
since the has pipes are not rusted together, and/or full of mineral
deposits. This should be an easy job as long as you are careful and
thorough.

Note: You will still smell some gas odor as you take the pipes apart,
even after the gas is shut off. There is still gas inside the pipes, and
it also leaves a residual odor. In other words, dont smoke or light any
flames, while you take the pipes apart, and it wont hurt to have a
window open.

Also, be sure to buy a GAS Valve, not a water valve.

On Sun, 9 Oct 2016 14:16:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If you read my other posts, you will see I completed the job yesterday. All is well.

Great, glad you got the job done..... I did not see that post for some
reason....

I dont consider shutting off the valve to be "Tampering", but it's all
how they interpert the rules I guess...

A little paint comes off whenever a valve is shut off. Dont worry about
it. Once it rains, it will rust and no one will ever know. Toss a cup of
water on the valve and it will rust sooner....

I wonder what they would say if you painted that pipe and meter? Sounds
silly, but when I was living with my parents, my dad painted the house
and painted the gas pipes to match the house. It looked much better than
the rust that was on them, and helped protect the pipes as well.

On Sunday, October 9, 2016 at 2:51:18 PM UTC-5, wrote:
How are you gonna get busted.

I hear you. I emailed the gas company several days ago to see what their rules were. I got a short but sharp response back quickly, saying that any signs of "tampering" would result in my meter being taken away. If you read my other posts, you will see I completed the job yesterday. All is well. Today I went out and checked the gas meter shutoff valve to see if there were any signs of "tampering." A little paint is scraped off the valve handle, but this is so for other handles in the collection of eight or so meters for the condos here.

Unless you are on the "Wanted" list and
have the cops watching your house....

Not unless some bored gas company employee is reading this thread and has tipped off the police.

Everyone who lives in a house, homeowner, or tenant, should know where
and how to shut off their gas at the meter, and should have a wrench
handy to do it. In the event of a gas leak, or there is a fire in the
home, or during an approaching hurricane or tornado, EVERYONE should be
able to, and have the know-how and means to shut off their gas, and do
so immediately. I highly doubt it's illegal, but the gas company is
always willing to make a buck, and shut it off for you at a high cost to
the customer.


I agree and am glad I know where the meter shutoff valve is and how to shut it.


snip for brevity
Once the gas is off, do all your work, make sure to use pipe dope and
tighten all fittings tightly. (I was told to NOT use teflon tape on gas
pipes, but then I've heard that is no longer true, so I'm not sure).
Either way, to be safe, just buy a $2 container of liquid pipe dope).

I have never used tape on the three or four gas line repairs/improvements I have done in my life. I use the blue gas pipe thread dope. Never had a leak.

Once the gas is turned back on, purge the lines by holding down the
pilot light red button, until the pilot lights. Then mix about a
teaspoon of dish soap in a half cup of water and brush it on each
fitting with a small paint brush or squirt it with a pump sprayer. Watch
for bubbles. If you get bubbles at any fitting, or valve, you have a
loose fitting or bad valve which needs to be fixed immediately.

Working with gas pipes is a lot easier than with steel water pipes,
since the has pipes are not rusted together, and/or full of mineral
deposits. This should be an easy job as long as you are careful and
thorough.

Good tip. Yes it went much better than I thought it would. You folks here gave me some confidence with your tips.

Note: You will still smell some gas odor as you take the pipes apart,
even after the gas is shut off. There is still gas inside the pipes, and
it also leaves a residual odor. In other words, dont smoke or light any
flames, while you take the pipes apart, and it wont hurt to have a
window open.

Also, be sure to buy a GAS Valve, not a water valve.

I did. It was prominently labeled 'for gas' and was in the gas pipe section..


Ed, I agree that $70 for a service call is reasonable. But this does not mean I do not like the instructions to stay away from the valve when I have a few hour repair job to do. And yet: I understand the gas company does not want some 20-year-old DIY handyperson out there torquing on the valve handle with his channel locks, ripping out slivers of steel from it. Lord knows I am an amateur as well.

On Sunday, October 9, 2016 at 5:01:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I dont consider shutting off the valve to be "Tampering", but it's all
how they interpert the rules I guess...
snip for brevity

Excellent, and you're right: This was not "tampering." I do not tamper. I make things work (usually). This is exactly what I am going to say if the gas company calls.

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 9:13:38 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I cannot get my water heater out without removing a couple of feet of natural gas black piping, 1-inch OD. The pipe goes horizontally into the wall, joins with an el, and then proceeds vertically down. There is a bracket on the el, fastening the el to a 2x4. How risky is it to put my large pipe wrench on the pipe and try to unscrew the pipe, and then screw it back into place? Is this just damned foolish?

Plan B is to take out wallboard so I can get a second wrench on the el.

Everyone should have one of these tools. (€¢€¿€¢)ノ

https://www.amazon.com/SurvivalKitsO.../dp/B000NYDEPQ

Most gas lines are not tightened to the point where you need a breaker bar or length of pipe over your pipe wrench handle to break it loose. The gas company around here and most plumbers use a brush on Teflon paste on gas pipe joints and even the older pipe dope joints have never required a lot of muscle power from me to get loose. I've used both the Teflon paste and Leak Lock on gas pipe joints. I have a small tube of the blue Leak Lock in my general purpose tool bag that I carried with me back when I was working. I also have a bottle of bubble making leak detector in my tools somewhere but you can make your own with dish washing liquid to put on the gas pipe joints to detect any leaks by the bubbles produced. (€¢€¿€¢)

https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-23.../dp/B0002YPAFY

http://www.highsidechem.com/leaklock.html

http://www.rectorseal.com/better-bubble/

[8~{} Uncle Dope Monster

On Sunday, October 9, 2016 at 6:40:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, October 9, 2016 at 5:01:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I dont consider shutting off the valve to be "Tampering", but it's all
how they interpert the rules I guess...
snip for brevity

Excellent, and you're right: This was not "tampering." I do not tamper. I make things work (usually). This is exactly what I am going to say if the gas company calls.

I think tampering refers to trying to bypass or defeat the meter.
Turning the gas off for safety would not be tampering.
m

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I think tampering refers to trying to bypass or defeat the meter.
Turning the gas off for safety would not be tampering.
m

That's how I see it too. Turning the gas off is just a common thing to
do for any kind of repairs, or when a home is vacant for any length of
time. I bet a lot of people shut off their gas as that recent hurricane
was approaching, and that is a good idea. The last thing they need, are
fires and gas explosions on top of storm damage.

I have propane for heating, and during the summer I shut the valve off
at the tank. The reason being that I have heard about floods washing
away tanks, and if the valve is turned ON, once the pipe breaks off,
there is gas spewing into the air. I'm not in a flood prone area, but
summer can bring tornados and other storms that could affect my
property. It's rare, but why keep the gas turned on, when I'm not using
it. (It's only use is for the furnace).

And I actually witnessed this occur, only about 4 miles from here,
around 3 years ago. We had a bad storm that brought straight line winds.
That type of wind can do a lot of damage, which can be almost as
damaging as tornados. I lost a few trees from that storm, but a farm, 4
miles away had several portable cattle sheds. Because these sheds are
open on one side, they were lifted by the wind. After the storm, one of
these sheds was upside down on it's edge, leaning against their barn.
Another was on top of their car, and another crashed into their propane
tank, knocking it off it's base and rolling it several feet. Of course
the copper gas line broke off, and since the valve was turned ON, it was
spewing gas, which left a strong gas odor around the whole area.

The fire dept. closed off the whole area until all gas odor was gone.
From what I heard, the tank was laying on the valve, so they could not
just shut it off, and those tanks are very heavy, so it can not be moved
by human hands. Of course any vehicle could ignite the gas, so all they
could do it let it empty itself. The main road in the area, near that
farm was shut down for many hours. Fortunately there was no fire, but
they lost all their gas, on top of all the other storm damages.

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...



[8~{} Uncle Dope Monster


User or seller? g

--
Tekkie