On 6/12/2016 2:59 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 04:32:30 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/11/2016 7:54 PM, hah wrote:
On 06/11/2016 04:51 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

[snip]

100K, worse.

No danger of fire/ignition at 100K!

Maybe if potassium is involved?

Phosphorus?

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights? How big a UPS? How
is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:26:54 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:59 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 04:32:30 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/11/2016 7:54 PM, hah wrote:
On 06/11/2016 04:51 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

[snip]

100K, worse.

No danger of fire/ignition at 100K!

Maybe if potassium is involved?

Phosphorus?

Or that.

--
What is the first thing a blonde learns when she takes driving lessons?
You can also sit upright in a car.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

The UPS manages to power anything else, motors, etc, etc.

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

My incoming mains is often too high a voltage. The UPS steps it down if it is. The lights last longer.

How big a UPS?

1500VA, 960W.

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where the computer does.

--
What is the first thing a blonde learns when she takes driving lessons?
You can also sit upright in a car.

On 6/14/2016 11:45 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:26:54 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:59 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 04:32:30 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/11/2016 7:54 PM, hah wrote:
On 06/11/2016 04:51 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

[snip]

100K, worse.

No danger of fire/ignition at 100K!

Maybe if potassium is involved?

Phosphorus?

Or that.

When i was a kid, neighbor (science teacher) gave me a little (really little!)
bottle of phospohorus dissolved in carbon disulfide (? I'm just pulling that
name out of an ancient memory so it may be wrong).

Put a few drops on something. Wait for it to "evaporate" and then -- poof!

To a little kid, it was wicked cool! "Magic" (up to then, the only other ways
to create fire involved SPARKS or open flame!)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:24:11 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:45 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:26:54 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:59 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 04:32:30 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/11/2016 7:54 PM, hah wrote:
On 06/11/2016 04:51 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

[snip]

100K, worse.

No danger of fire/ignition at 100K!

Maybe if potassium is involved?

Phosphorus?

Or that.

When i was a kid, neighbor (science teacher) gave me a little (really little!)
bottle of phospohorus dissolved in carbon disulfide (? I'm just pulling that
name out of an ancient memory so it may be wrong).

Put a few drops on something. Wait for it to "evaporate" and then -- poof!

To a little kid, it was wicked cool! "Magic" (up to then, the only other ways
to create fire involved SPARKS or open flame!)

As a kid I used to love blowing up capacitors by overloading them. Things involving petrol were also cool.

--
As the coffin was being lowered into the ground at a Traffic Wardens funeral, a voice from inside screams:
"I'm not dead, I'm not dead. Let me out!"
The Vicar smiles, leans forward sucking air through his teeth and mutters:
"Too late pal, I've already done the paperwork"

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

The UPS manages to power anything else, motors, etc, etc.

Motors are typ lagging power factor; capacitors, leading.

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

My incoming mains is often too high a voltage. The UPS steps it down if it
is. The lights last longer.

Ah, OK. Incandescent lamps? Or, LED/fluorescent?

In the former case, you can purchase "commercial" bulbs that are rated
for 130V (instead of 120). This reduces light output, a bit. But,
also gives you a longer lasting bulb (heavier filament). Until
dimmable LED's become affordable, all of our "lamps on dimmers" are
commercial incandescents.

How big a UPS?

1500VA, 960W.

You might look for a CVT (constant voltage transformer).
As they don't rely on "actives" as much, you can usually get
much higher capacity than would be practical in a solid state
UPS.

[I had a "Lion Tamer" -- a play on the phrase "line tamer" or
perhaps vice versa? -- that was pretty capable. Also, pretty
big and heavy -- as it's lots of copper and iron! : ]

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

The UPS manages to power anything else, motors, etc, etc.

Motors are typ lagging power factor; capacitors, leading.

It's also happy with cheap **** PC PSUs. And since it has a VA rating and a W rating, I assume they've allowed for phases.

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

My incoming mains is often too high a voltage. The UPS steps it down if it
is. The lights last longer.

Ah, OK. Incandescent lamps? Or, LED/fluorescent?

Has been all 3. Moving towards LED as the other two wear out, now almost all LED.

In the former case, you can purchase "commercial" bulbs that are rated
for 130V (instead of 120). This reduces light output, a bit. But,
also gives you a longer lasting bulb (heavier filament). Until
dimmable LED's become affordable, all of our "lamps on dimmers" are
commercial incandescents.

How big a UPS?

1500VA, 960W.

You might look for a CVT (constant voltage transformer).
As they don't rely on "actives" as much, you can usually get
much higher capacity than would be practical in a solid state
UPS.

I also want the UPS to run the computer for a few seconds or minutes when the power goes off, so I don't corrupt the disks.

[I had a "Lion Tamer" -- a play on the phrase "line tamer" or
perhaps vice versa? -- that was pretty capable. Also, pretty
big and heavy -- as it's lots of copper and iron! : ]

This one is pretty heavy - it's an APC SmartUPS 1500.

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why would I let an inspector into my own home?

--
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.

On 6/14/2016 1:21 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

How big a UPS?

1500VA, 960W.

You might look for a CVT (constant voltage transformer).
As they don't rely on "actives" as much, you can usually get
much higher capacity than would be practical in a solid state
UPS.

I also want the UPS to run the computer for a few seconds or minutes when the
power goes off, so I don't corrupt the disks.

Understood. I'm suggesting different usage. You didn't claim you
wanted the *lights* to survive a power outage; just protect them
from high mains voltages.

[I had a "Lion Tamer" -- a play on the phrase "line tamer" or
perhaps vice versa? -- that was pretty capable. Also, pretty
big and heavy -- as it's lots of copper and iron! : ]

This one is pretty heavy - it's an APC SmartUPS 1500.

I have three of those (two + a spare) for my automation system.

The lion tamer was much heavier! More like this in terms of
weight:
http://the-xperts.com/upload/images/UPS/apc%20ups%202200%20.jpg
(you'll recognize the top as similar to your UPS; the entire bottom
is batteries!)

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why would I let an inspector into my own home?

Ever think of selling it? :

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:27:37 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 1:21 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

How big a UPS?

1500VA, 960W.

You might look for a CVT (constant voltage transformer).
As they don't rely on "actives" as much, you can usually get
much higher capacity than would be practical in a solid state
UPS.

I also want the UPS to run the computer for a few seconds or minutes when the
power goes off, so I don't corrupt the disks.

Understood. I'm suggesting different usage. You didn't claim you
wanted the *lights* to survive a power outage; just protect them
from high mains voltages.

Yes, but easier to use the same device for both.

[I had a "Lion Tamer" -- a play on the phrase "line tamer" or
perhaps vice versa? -- that was pretty capable. Also, pretty
big and heavy -- as it's lots of copper and iron! : ]

This one is pretty heavy - it's an APC SmartUPS 1500.

I have three of those (two + a spare) for my automation system.

The lion tamer was much heavier! More like this in terms of
weight:
http://the-xperts.com/upload/images/UPS/apc%20ups%202200%20.jpg
(you'll recognize the top as similar to your UPS; the entire bottom
is batteries!)

Yes I heard that you can add batteries to mine for extended runtime.

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why would I let an inspector into my own home?

Ever think of selling it? :

Well that's up to the buyer. When I bought it I never asked for any of that ****. If the buyer doesn't like it, he can change it.

--
A man and his wife are ****ing.
Fifteen minutes has passed, 30 minutes, then 45 minutes.
Sweat is pouring off both of them.
The wife finally looks up and says, "What's the matter darling, can't you think of anyone else either?"

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

--
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes from the plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I connect the lights to two sources?

--
Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.

On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum
loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the
output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes from the
plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I
connect the lights to two sources?

I don't see how you've done this.

The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit.
The branch circuit feeds the lights.

This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.

You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the
load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to*
this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle
(e.g., in your UPS).

But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through
the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735%
of the homes, here?).

So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center
with a plug on the end.

Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible
INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that
is wired to the lighting branch circuit.

*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:13:00 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum
loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the
output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes from the
plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I
connect the lights to two sources?

I don't see how you've done this.

The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit.
The branch circuit feeds the lights.

This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.

You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the
load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to*
this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle
(e.g., in your UPS).

But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through
the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735%
of the homes, here?).

So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center
with a plug on the end.

Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible
INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that
is wired to the lighting branch circuit.

*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.

More illogical assumptions, nothing dangles anywhere. The wire from the load side of the fuse was disconnected from the fuse. So any fuse in there can supply precisely nothing. That wire (still leading down the inside of the wall to the light switches) was extended to a flex running out of the load centre to the UPS's output strip, via a standard mains plug. So basically I have a bunch of lights operated by a mains plug, just like a standard lamp or table lamp does. Removing that plug from the UPS causes me to have a plug with lamps on the other end, much like.... a table lamp.

--
Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same. -- Oscar Wilde

On 6/15/2016 4:45 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:13:00 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum
loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the
output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in
where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes from the
plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I
connect the lights to two sources?

I don't see how you've done this.

The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit.
The branch circuit feeds the lights.

This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.

You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the
load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to*
this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle
(e.g., in your UPS).

But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through
the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735%
of the homes, here?).

So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center
with a plug on the end.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible
INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that
is wired to the lighting branch circuit.

*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.

More illogical assumptions, nothing dangles anywhere. The wire from the load
side of the fuse was disconnected from the fuse. So any fuse in there can
supply precisely nothing. That wire (still leading down the inside of the wall
to the light switches) was extended to a flex running out of the load centre to
the UPS's output strip, via a standard mains plug. So basically I have a bunch

So, you've got a wire coming out of the load center EXACTLY as I said above.
An inspector would immediately shut that down, here. You've got a *plug* on
the end of a wire leaving the load center, correct?

How do you think an inspector is going to see that as legitimate?

of lights operated by a mains plug, just like a standard lamp or table lamp
does. Removing that plug from the UPS causes me to have a plug with lamps on
the other end, much like.... a table lamp.

Does the plug from your "table lamp" pass through the load center, then
out and into some other source of power?

(I think not)

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:50:05 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 4:45 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:13:00 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum
loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the
output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in
where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes from the
plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I
connect the lights to two sources?

I don't see how you've done this.

The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit.
The branch circuit feeds the lights.

This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.

You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the
load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to*
this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle
(e.g., in your UPS).

But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through
the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735%
of the homes, here?).

So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center
with a plug on the end.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible
INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that
is wired to the lighting branch circuit.

*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.

More illogical assumptions, nothing dangles anywhere. The wire from the load
side of the fuse was disconnected from the fuse. So any fuse in there can
supply precisely nothing. That wire (still leading down the inside of the wall
to the light switches) was extended to a flex running out of the load centre to
the UPS's output strip, via a standard mains plug. So basically I have a bunch

So, you've got a wire coming out of the load center EXACTLY as I said above.
An inspector would immediately shut that down, here. You've got a *plug* on
the end of a wire leaving the load center, correct?

How do you think an inspector is going to see that as legitimate?

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

of lights operated by a mains plug, just like a standard lamp or table lamp
does. Removing that plug from the UPS causes me to have a plug with lamps on
the other end, much like.... a table lamp.

Does the plug from your "table lamp" pass through the load center,

But not connected to it.

then out and into some other source of power?

(I think not)

--
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.

On 6/15/2016 5:56 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:50:05 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 4:45 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:13:00 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would
cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum
loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the
output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in
where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone
who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes
from the
plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I
connect the lights to two sources?

I don't see how you've done this.

The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit.
The branch circuit feeds the lights.

This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.

You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the
load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to*
this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle
(e.g., in your UPS).

But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through
the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735%
of the homes, here?).

So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center
with a plug on the end.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible
INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that
is wired to the lighting branch circuit.

*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.

More illogical assumptions, nothing dangles anywhere. The wire from the load
side of the fuse was disconnected from the fuse. So any fuse in there can
supply precisely nothing. That wire (still leading down the inside of the wall
to the light switches) was extended to a flex running out of the load centre to
the UPS's output strip, via a standard mains plug. So basically I have a bunch

So, you've got a wire coming out of the load center EXACTLY as I said above.
An inspector would immediately shut that down, here. You've got a *plug* on
the end of a wire leaving the load center, correct?

How do you think an inspector is going to see that as legitimate?

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

If you wanted to supply power to your household branch circuits THROUGH
an alternate power source, you'd be required to install a transfer switch.

If folks where YOU are think nothing of it, then why would you not be willing
to invite an inspector over?

of lights operated by a mains plug, just like a standard lamp or table lamp
does. Removing that plug from the UPS causes me to have a plug with lamps on
the other end, much like.... a table lamp.

Does the plug from your "table lamp" pass through the load center,

But not connected to it.

then out and into some other source of power?

(I think not)

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 02:03:16 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 5:56 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:50:05 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 4:45 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 00:13:00 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/15/2016 1:28 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:22:57 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/14/2016 4:13 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:05:40 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/14/2016 11:48 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:35:20 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/12/2016 2:57 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I had a fluorescent tube with a non-electronic ballast which would
cause
my UPS
(which also runs the house lighting to make bulbs last longer) to hum
loudly.
Not sure what was wrong, but I traced it to the capacitor.

Hmmm... load was too reactive for the UPS?

[Why does the UPS run the household lights?

How big a UPS?

How is it tied in to the general lighting circuit?

It's primarily for the computer etc. But I took the wire going into the
output
of the lighting fuse in the fusebox and ran it to a plug which plugs in
where
the computer does.

Ick! An inspector seeing that, here, would probably not know whether
to "sh*t or go blind!" In either case, you wouldn't be happy with his
"action"!

Why do you consider a fuse in a plug different to a fuse in a fusebox? The
circuit is still protected by a 5A fuse.

What happens when the "lighting fuse in the fusebox" is installed?

If you've literally run it to a *plug*, then when that fusebox fuse
is present, the blades of the "plug" are hot, can be touched by someone
who's
not cautious, can be "plugged into" another circuit which could cause the
attached cord to end up carrying a portion of the load intended to be
carried by the house wiring *or* could cause the mains to be shorted
(if an unpolarized plug that you plugged in "backwards" *or* a polarized
plug that you've plugged into a circuit on the other "leg" of the mains!)

Or, the UPS can see mains voltage *impressed* on its outputs.

Nope. The wire that was coming from the fuse to the lights, now comes
from the
plug to the lights. None of what you said is possible. Why on earth would I
connect the lights to two sources?

I don't see how you've done this.

The mains go to the load center. Through a fuse/breaker to a branch circuit.
The branch circuit feeds the lights.

This wiring is typically *inside* the walls of a structure.

You appear to be suggesting that you removed the wire from the
load side of the fuse (*in* the load center) and connected *to*
this wire a "plug". That plug can now be mated with a receptacle
(e.g., in your UPS).

But, that plug is attached to a wire that travels up through
the wall (is your residence wired different than 99.97735%
of the homes, here?).

So, you either have a cord dangling out of the load center
with a plug on the end.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Or, have a cord running to an outlet or some other point accessible
INSIDE the residence (but NOT within the walls themselves) that
is wired to the lighting branch circuit.

*AND*, a wire dangling inside the load center, unconnected.

More illogical assumptions, nothing dangles anywhere. The wire from the load
side of the fuse was disconnected from the fuse. So any fuse in there can
supply precisely nothing. That wire (still leading down the inside of the wall
to the light switches) was extended to a flex running out of the load centre to
the UPS's output strip, via a standard mains plug. So basically I have a bunch

So, you've got a wire coming out of the load center EXACTLY as I said above.
An inspector would immediately shut that down, here. You've got a *plug* on
the end of a wire leaving the load center, correct?

How do you think an inspector is going to see that as legitimate?

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

If you wanted to supply power to your household branch circuits THROUGH
an alternate power source, you'd be required to install a transfer switch.

I have no need to transfer anything, the lights only have one source, the UPS.

If folks where YOU are think nothing of it, then why would you not be willing
to invite an inspector over?

1) They most likely have rules as nonsensical as yours.
2) Why would I want an inspector to inspect my own house? I know it's fine.
3) If I was selling, it takes 5 minutes to put the wire back where it was. It's my UPS and I'd be taking it with me.

of lights operated by a mains plug, just like a standard lamp or table lamp
does. Removing that plug from the UPS causes me to have a plug with lamps on
the other end, much like.... a table lamp.

Does the plug from your "table lamp" pass through the load center,

But not connected to it.

then out and into some other source of power?

(I think not)

--
An Ohio teen has pleaded innocent to stealing his mother's credit card to pay for a friend's breast enlargement surgery.
Police say it's lucky they caught the guy quickly; otherwise, it may have turned into a bigger bust.

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable,
every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely
removed from *everything*!

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered
by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there
is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:04:13 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable,
every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely
removed from *everything*!

No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar panels on their roof.

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered
by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there
is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling you several times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to anything in the fusebox.

--
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye, then it's fun and games that you can't see anymore.

On 6/16/2016 8:22 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:04:13 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable,
every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely
removed from *everything*!

No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar panels on
their roof.

The fire department, electrician, etc. don't know that.

*I* know I have a genset. But, just wiring it into the fuse box -- even
KNOWING that I have to ensure that the breakers to which it attaches
would have to be switched off prior to use -- doesn't count.

The same goes for solar panels.

A transfer switch IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOAD CENTER tells anyone
who attempts to access the load center that there is an
alternate source of power potentially available. EVEN IF YOU AREN'T
AVAILABLE TO TELL THEM THAT!

I can "safely" wire my genset output to any of the branch circuits
inside my house. And, dutifully disconnect the associated breakers.
Even disconnect the wires *from* the breakers and cap them off
with wire nuts/tape.

That doesn't mean it will pass an inspection!

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered
by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there
is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling you several
times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to anything in the fusebox.

The wires pass through the fuse box. And, I'm 100% sure there is a wire
nut involved (or equivalent). Simple question to answer: yes or no?

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 6/16/2016 8:22 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:04:13 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable,
every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely
removed from *everything*!

No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar panels on
their roof.

The fire department, electrician, etc. don't know that.

*I* know I have a genset. But, just wiring it into the fuse box -- even
KNOWING that I have to ensure that the breakers to which it attaches
would have to be switched off prior to use -- doesn't count.

The same goes for solar panels.

A transfer switch IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOAD CENTER tells anyone
who attempts to access the load center that there is an
alternate source of power potentially available. EVEN IF YOU AREN'T
AVAILABLE TO TELL THEM THAT!

I can "safely" wire my genset output to any of the branch circuits
inside my house. And, dutifully disconnect the associated breakers.
Even disconnect the wires *from* the breakers and cap them off
with wire nuts/tape.

That doesn't mean it will pass an inspection!

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered
by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there
is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling you several
times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to anything in the fusebox.

The wires pass through the fuse box. And, I'm 100% sure there is a wire
nut involved (or equivalent). Simple question to answer: yes or no?

Yous guys should go find a room!

/–ˆ\
..Î*.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
bob_villain wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 6/16/2016 8:22 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:04:13 +0100, Don Y
wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire
which goes through a wall? Load centre nothing to do with
it. The wire just happens to pass through there, it's not
connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load
center with a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be
removable, every conductor touchable. The source of power has
been completely removed from *everything*!

No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar
panels on their roof.

The fire department, electrician, etc. don't know that.

*I* know I have a genset. But, just wiring it into the fuse box --
even KNOWING that I have to ensure that the breakers to which it
attaches would have to be switched off prior to use -- doesn't
count.

The same goes for solar panels.

A transfer switch IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOAD CENTER tells anyone
who attempts to access the load center that there is an
alternate source of power potentially available. EVEN IF YOU AREN'T
AVAILABLE TO TELL THEM THAT!

I can "safely" wire my genset output to any of the branch circuits
inside my house. And, dutifully disconnect the associated breakers.
Even disconnect the wires *from* the breakers and cap them off
with wire nuts/tape.

That doesn't mean it will pass an inspection!

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still
being powered by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any
indication that there is another ACTIVE source of power in play
(e.g., like a transfer switch)?

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling
you several times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to
anything in the fusebox.

The wires pass through the fuse box. And, I'm 100% sure there is a
wire nut involved (or equivalent). Simple question to answer: yes
or no?

Yous guys should go find a room!

/–ˆ\
.Î*.

Oh, you want a threesome,eh?

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 19:52:42 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 8:22 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:04:13 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable,
every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely
removed from *everything*!

No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar panels on
their roof.

The fire department, electrician, etc. don't know that.

*I* know I have a genset. But, just wiring it into the fuse box -- even
KNOWING that I have to ensure that the breakers to which it attaches
would have to be switched off prior to use -- doesn't count.

The same goes for solar panels.

A transfer switch IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOAD CENTER tells anyone
who attempts to access the load center that there is an
alternate source of power potentially available. EVEN IF YOU AREN'T
AVAILABLE TO TELL THEM THAT!

I can "safely" wire my genset output to any of the branch circuits
inside my house. And, dutifully disconnect the associated breakers.
Even disconnect the wires *from* the breakers and cap them off
with wire nuts/tape.

That doesn't mean it will pass an inspection!

I don't care for inspectors with silly rules. Every house does not have to adhere to some standard or other. Things can be different, viva la difference! I know where my electricity goes, and anyone else can work it out with the use of only a few brain cells (not that anyone would be tampering with my house). Eg if the lights are still on when you turn off the main switch, there's power from somewhere else.

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered
by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there
is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling you several
times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to anything in the fusebox.

The wires pass through the fuse box. And, I'm 100% sure there is a wire
nut involved (or equivalent). Simple question to answer: yes or no?

I don't know what a wire nut is. A small piece of connector strip is used, like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1L._SY300_.jpg

--
Which is it, is man one of god's blunders or is god one of man's? -- Friedrich Nietzsche

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:00:39 +0100, bob_villain wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:53:02 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 6/16/2016 8:22 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 12:04:13 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:54 AM, James Wilkinson wrote:

What do you think is wrong with a plug leading to a wire which goes through a
wall? Load centre nothing to do with it. The wire just happens to pass
through there, it's not connected to the load centre.

An inspector, here, would flag any wire coming out of a load center with
a plug on the end of it.

Why?

Pull the main breaker.

Better yet, REMOVE THE METER.

Load center should be "safe", right? Every wire nut should be removable,
every conductor touchable. The source of power has been completely
removed from *everything*!

No, because I know I have a UPS. Same goes for people with solar panels on
their roof.

The fire department, electrician, etc. don't know that.

*I* know I have a genset. But, just wiring it into the fuse box -- even
KNOWING that I have to ensure that the breakers to which it attaches
would have to be switched off prior to use -- doesn't count.

The same goes for solar panels.

A transfer switch IN PROXIMITY TO THE LOAD CENTER tells anyone
who attempts to access the load center that there is an
alternate source of power potentially available. EVEN IF YOU AREN'T
AVAILABLE TO TELL THEM THAT!

I can "safely" wire my genset output to any of the branch circuits
inside my house. And, dutifully disconnect the associated breakers.
Even disconnect the wires *from* the breakers and cap them off
with wire nuts/tape.

That doesn't mean it will pass an inspection!

In your scheme, who's to say ALL of the circuits aren't still being powered
by a 20KW genset behind the house? Is there any indication that there
is another ACTIVE source of power in play (e.g., like a transfer switch)?

You don't seem to understand how I've wired it despite me telling you several
times. The lighting circuit and UPS don't connect to anything in the fusebox.

The wires pass through the fuse box. And, I'm 100% sure there is a wire
nut involved (or equivalent). Simple question to answer: yes or no?

Yous guys should go find a room!

/–ˆ\
.Î*.

Holy **** that looks quite realistic in Opera.

--
Confucius say lion with small penis must compensate with mighty roar.

On 6/16/2016 1:14 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I don't care for inspectors with silly rules.

That's pretty obvious!

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:31:42 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 1:14 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I don't care for inspectors with silly rules.

That's pretty obvious!

Life is easier, simpler, cheaper, and better, if you just do things. Just make things work, don't follow silly rules, rules are for people with autism.

--
Harry Carpenter at the Oxford-Cambridge boat race 1977 - "Ah, isn't that nice. The wife of the Cambridge President is kissing the Cox of the Oxford crew."

On 6/16/2016 2:47 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:31:42 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 1:14 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I don't care for inspectors with silly rules.

That's pretty obvious!

Life is easier, simpler, cheaper, and better, if you just do things. Just make
things work, don't follow silly rules, rules are for people with autism.

Rules allow us to live together in some sort of mutually agreed upon harmony.
I.e., so *you* don't decide to drive through an intersection when it suits
your desires, regardless of the desires or needs of others.

So *you* don't build a home out of bailing wire and cardboard that
jeopardizes the homes of your neighbors.

So *you* don't walk into a club and shoot people of whom you are afraid.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:57:21 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 2:47 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:31:42 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 1:14 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I don't care for inspectors with silly rules.

That's pretty obvious!

Life is easier, simpler, cheaper, and better, if you just do things. Just make
things work, don't follow silly rules, rules are for people with autism.

Rules allow us to live together in some sort of mutually agreed upon harmony.
I.e., so *you* don't decide to drive through an intersection when it suits
your desires, regardless of the desires or needs of others.

No, those are guidelines. Anyone with sense runs a red light when nobody is in the way. Anyone with any sense breaks the speed limit.

Creating a rule that you mustn't murder someone doesn't stop murderers. We don't murder people because we don't want to. People who want to murder still do it even though it's illegal.

So *you* don't build a home out of bailing wire and cardboard that
jeopardizes the homes of your neighbors.

That's a stupid rule. I wouldn't care what my neighbour does on HIS LAND.

So *you* don't walk into a club and shoot people of whom you are afraid.

See above, that rule has no effect.

--
Bill Clinton thinks "harass" is two words.

On 6/16/2016 3:01 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
So *you* don't build a home out of bailing wire and cardboard that
jeopardizes the homes of your neighbors.

That's a stupid rule. I wouldn't care what my neighbour does on HIS LAND.

Exactly! If *I* want to set up a meat rendering plant on MY PROPERTY,
I should be allowed to do so! If you don't like the smell from the
process -- or, all the traffic as carcases are delivered at all hours
of the day and night, *you* should relocate!

Likewise, if I want to burn tires, have an open sewer, host loud
parties, etc. it's none of YOUR concern!

bye

On 6/16/2016 5:47 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:31:42 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 1:14 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I don't care for inspectors with silly rules.

That's pretty obvious!

Life is easier, simpler, cheaper, and better, if you just do things. Just make things work, don't follow silly rules, rules are for people with
autism.


I sleep better knowing that the electrical wiring and gas plumbing in my house is built to code or better...but I'm just silly like that.

And since most building contractors have zero morals, I like building codes too.

On 6/16/2016 6:42 PM, Tax Payer wrote:
I sleep better knowing that the electrical wiring and gas plumbing in my house
is built to code or better...but I'm just silly like that.

And since most building contractors have zero morals, I like building codes too.

When we did our remodel, I was tracing wires (ROMEX) to figure out where
they all went. One went into a wall from which there was no possible exit!
And, no fixture/device to which it might connect.

Turned out builder had simply forgotten to put the outlet on the end
of the cable -- and no one had ever noticed it "missing".

Then you get the homeowners who *think* they know what they're doing...

Like whoever replaced the "three-way" light switch in the garage with
a regular switch -- and "reasoned" that the third conductor (traveler)
should obviously go to that THIRD screw on the switch... (you know,
the GREEN one!)

Of course, as the Jboxes are all plastic, nowadays, this went unnoticed.

Until the other switch was in the "wrong" position when I tried to
use the miswired switch: "Yikes! Why is the mounting hardware *not*?"

Or, the neighbor down the street with the ROMEX running across the lawn
to the *pump* located adjacent to his garage.

Or, the folks with ROMEX stapled to the facia boards, exposed to our
continuous heat and sun.

Yes, easier, simpler, cheaper -- and WRONG!

Burn your own house down -- and be sure none of the embers drift onto your
neighbors' properties (or, alternately, don't be upset if embers from a
neighbor's "uncontrolled bonfire" end up setting YOUR place on fire.

(The folks who seem to think they have absolute authority/justification
to do what they want on THEIR property tend to have no problem imposing
restrictions on what their NEIGHBORS can/can't do)

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 4:14:17 PM UTC-4, James Wilkinson wrote:


I don't know what a wire nut is. A small piece of connector strip is used, like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1L._SY300_.jpg


I thought you were nuts, but that connector strip is far superior to a wire nut. Maybe you live in an area that requires them? Europe has banned wire nuts, but I suspect it may be for economic reasons.

Anyway, remember: Building to Code is the WORST you are allowed to build anything. It's okay to build better, just not any worse.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 15:53:58 +0100, TimR wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 4:14:17 PM UTC-4, James Wilkinson wrote:

I don't know what a wire nut is. A small piece of connector strip is used, like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1L._SY300_.jpg

I thought you were nuts, but that connector strip is far superior to a wire nut. Maybe you live in an area that requires them?

No. It's just that's the easiest and most common way to attach wires together. I virtually never see anything else used (except for a junction box with similar as part of the insides).

Europe has banned wire nuts, but I suspect it may be for economic reasons.

I wasn't aware (not that I care) that wire nuts were banned. They are readily available for sale in the UK. But I find them very difficult to get to stay on. I've only ever seen them used by car radio fitters, and most usually they've broken.

Anyway, remember: Building to Code is the WORST you are allowed to build anything. It's okay to build better, just not any worse.

Allowed is not something I care about. I care only about functionality.

--
Instructions on a Chinese fuzzaway:
Do not use it in shaving off beard.
Avoid pressing heavy, to prevent damaging clothing or other trouble.
During process, pleace the positio stretch the clothing configuration.
Avoid using on long hari ware.
The box stored with fluff ball is made from strong dust-proof material, so you can clean it after back off.

Don Y posted for all of us...



On 6/16/2016 6:42 PM, Tax Payer wrote:
I sleep better knowing that the electrical wiring and gas plumbing in my house
is built to code or better...but I'm just silly like that.

And since most building contractors have zero morals, I like building codes too.

When we did our remodel, I was tracing wires (ROMEX) to figure out where
they all went. One went into a wall from which there was no possible exit!
And, no fixture/device to which it might connect.

Turned out builder had simply forgotten to put the outlet on the end
of the cable -- and no one had ever noticed it "missing".

Then you get the homeowners who *think* they know what they're doing...

Like whoever replaced the "three-way" light switch in the garage with
a regular switch -- and "reasoned" that the third conductor (traveler)
should obviously go to that THIRD screw on the switch... (you know,
the GREEN one!)

Of course, as the Jboxes are all plastic, nowadays, this went unnoticed.

Until the other switch was in the "wrong" position when I tried to
use the miswired switch: "Yikes! Why is the mounting hardware *not*?"

Or, the neighbor down the street with the ROMEX running across the lawn
to the *pump* located adjacent to his garage.

Or, the folks with ROMEX stapled to the facia boards, exposed to our
continuous heat and sun.

Yes, easier, simpler, cheaper -- and WRONG!

Burn your own house down -- and be sure none of the embers drift onto your
neighbors' properties (or, alternately, don't be upset if embers from a
neighbor's "uncontrolled bonfire" end up setting YOUR place on fire.

(The folks who seem to think they have absolute authority/justification
to do what they want on THEIR property tend to have no problem imposing
restrictions on what their NEIGHBORS can/can't do)

Should have a notice posted: No Life Safety Involved. Difficult decision to
send a crew in to rescue this bozo.

--
Tekkie

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 02:42:11 +0100, Tax Payer wrote:

On 6/16/2016 5:47 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:31:42 +0100, Don Y wrote:

On 6/16/2016 1:14 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:
I don't care for inspectors with silly rules.

That's pretty obvious!

Life is easier, simpler, cheaper, and better, if you just do things. Just make things work, don't follow silly rules, rules are for people with
autism.


I sleep better knowing that the electrical wiring and gas plumbing in my house is built to code or better...but I'm just silly like that.

And since most building contractors have zero morals, I like building codes too.

If the gas is no good, you smell it.

--
What do Disney World & Viagra have in common?
They both make you wait an hour for a five-minute ride.