On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:53:03 -0500, Muggles wrote:

My question is has anyone tried getting rid of poison ivy and what did
you have to resort to before it finally did the job.

If you know poison oak as I do, the only real way to get rid of an
infestation is mechanical. I suspect poison ivy to be similar, when
in heavy infestations (heavy being defined as entire hillsides so thick
that you can't traverse them on foot due to the vines impeding progress
in all ways except lying on your belly and crawling through the stuff).

Machines are nice, but if you're on steep slopes, as I am, then you
crawl uphill to the source (which is easily 20 or more feet from where
you start at the end of the vines).

Once at the base, you cut and poison. The poison I use is 45% glyphosate,
with a few drops of liquid detergent mixed in, but you can use whatever
works for you.

Your clothes will be stained black from the urushiol (if your clothes
are not literally stained black, then you have never been in poison oak
or ivy of any import).

Usually you have plenty of time to deal with the stuff, so, you can
wait a few weeks before you manually pull it all out (this time you
can start from the edges).

In really heavy stuff, covering entire hillsides, I generally cut
a checkerboard pattern across the hill and up the hill, which
intersects thousands upon thousands of vines, and then I manually
clear it out about a year later.

Expect the genocide to continue for about the next ten years, as
the sprouts will grow back incessantly.

But the only hard work is in the beginning where the poison oak
is so thick that it prevents you walking through it. Once you have
tunnelled your way though it, it just gets easier year after year.

Ask me how I know.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:41:17 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Glyphosate (Roundup) works for me, at about 5% concentration.
Some may be harder to kill, in which case the brush killer products work.

Glyphosate concentrate at %45 is the strongest I can find.

I add a few drops of dish detergent (added surfactant) and I paint the
cut vines (usually my poison oak vines are about an inch to 3 and sometimes
4 inches in diameter).

Lot's of people "say" you can "spray" poison oak, but, they must have
little bitsy stuff or they're using a helicopter to spray it 'cuz when
it's that thick that you can't even walk or crawl through it on your
hands and knees, no amount of 'spraying' is going to work.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 05:22:52 -0700, TimR wrote:

The hairspray puts a little coating over the leaves so that an accidental brush or bump doesn't transfer oil to you.

At least, that's the theory.

I don't really know how much difference it makes but I feel better doing it.

You do know that, technically, since plant cells have cell walls, that
the oil is not (inherently) on the *outside* of the leaves, roots, stems,
and vines.

However, that's just a technicality, since it doesn't take all that much
to damage a cell wall. In fact, we've noticed that, when we lead hikes,
the people in the back of the line get it worse than those cutting their
way through at the front, because the guy swinging the machete gets past
the stuff before it starts weeping.

It's not much consolation though, because on those hikes, EVERYONE gets
exposed even though we're all covered from head to toe in double-layer
clothing (even in the hottest weather).

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 10:31:24 -0400, songbird wrote:

yep, that can be a bad move. since i am
reactive to poison ivy and many other plants
i have to be aware of what i'm going into and
keep covered up (then wash things well after-
wards).

Nobody is immune.
That's not how type IV cell mediated immunity works.

There's a random element to the game, and that randomness
plays out over a lifetime.

So, those who "say" they are immune, just haven't gotten
that random card yet.

Or, they aren't confronted with *this* (which I had to cut
with a chain saw just to get to the parent vines):

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917454.jpg

here i cut poison ivy back and dig out
the roots that i can get at. it is not a
fast growing vine so manual methods will
work if you are persistent (and careful
about what you are doing).

Yup. You can cut and pull it out faster than it can grow.
Of course, it probably has a fifty-year head start on you.

When I cut the 3-inch vines, I keep a spray bottle of glyphosate
concentrate on my belt (45% solution) with a few drops of liquid
dish detergent added as a surfactant.

See my very short video on the subject a few years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYcJslc6ymE

That kills from the cut down.
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917834.jpg

the thing is that birds/animals will drop
seeds and you can have it return from seeds
previously dropped. so you must do status
checks once in a while to keep it from coming
back.

Yup. For heavy infestations, you can clear a hillside in a season,
but you'll spend the next ten years catching up with the sprouts.

Ask me how I know.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917768.jpg

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:16:05 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

It's not much consolation though, because on those hikes, EVERYONE gets
exposed even though we're all covered from head to toe in double-layer
clothing (even in the hottest weather).

To give you an idea of how we're covered, this is typical garb for
cutting through an impenetrable infestation of poison oak.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917872.jpg

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:55:28 -0400, Frank wrote:

I use the dangerous chemicals. You don't spray anything but the poison
ivy with them. If you want to glove and bundle up you could pull it and
bag it for the trash can. Lots of luck.

I use the dangerous chemicals too!

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917988.jpg

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:37:36 -0700, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

Wear gloves, wear long sleeves if you decide to pull the vine
down after it's dead. Wash your clippers in hot soapy water
to kill the sap from the poison ivy. Whatever you do, DON'T
BURN THE VINES!

Ditto on the gloves and long sleeves!

Here's what I wear by way of illustration:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917912.jpg

BTW, if your clothes aren't stained black from the urushiol, then
you haven't been playing in the real stuff yet.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:10:34 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Glyphosate concentrate at %45 is the strongest I can find.

Ooooops. I meant 45%.

This stuff:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/11915886.jpg

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 5:48:18 PM UTC-4, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 1:41:57 PM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I sometimes cut back
the poison ivy, soak a piece of paper towel in Roundup for Poison Ivy,
wrap it around the remaining twig, and crimp some aluminum foil on
that.

Cindy Hamilton


What does the aluminum foil do? Keep the plant moist so the
Roundup does dry up? Whatever, it does sound interesting.

Probably makes me feel better, more than anything else.

Keeps the Roundup moist so it can be absorbed by the plant,
and taken down to the roots where it does its work.

Keeps the Roundup from brushing up against desirable plants.

Keeps animals from trying to eat the Roundup.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 4:59:48 AM UTC-4, Devon Nullo wrote:
On 04/26/2016 03:10 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:37:36 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

Whatever you do, DON'T BURN THE VINES!

Let me repeat that DON'T BURN THE VINES!
Let me add to that. DON"T BURN THE VINES!

You can die.

Only if you're dumb enough to stand downwind of the burn pile.

Or if your neighbor doesn't know what you're up to, and he
stands downwind of the burn pile.

I prefer not to poison (most of) my neighbors.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 12:28:32 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 4:59:48 AM UTC-4, Devon Nullo wrote:
On 04/26/2016 03:10 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:37:36 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

Whatever you do, DON'T BURN THE VINES!

Let me repeat that DON'T BURN THE VINES!
Let me add to that. DON"T BURN THE VINES!

You can die.

Only if you're dumb enough to stand downwind of the burn pile.

Or if your neighbor doesn't know what you're up to, and he
stands downwind of the burn pile.

I prefer not to poison (most of) my neighbors.

Cindy Hamilton

You go girl Tell him not to be silly.

On 04/27/2016 01:28 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 4:59:48 AM UTC-4, Devon Nullo wrote:
On 04/26/2016 03:10 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:37:36 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

Whatever you do, DON'T BURN THE VINES!

Let me repeat that DON'T BURN THE VINES!
Let me add to that. DON"T BURN THE VINES!

You can die.
Only if you're dumb enough to stand downwind of the burn pile.
Or if your neighbor doesn't know what you're up to, and he
stands downwind of the burn pile.

I prefer not to poison (most of) my neighbors.

Cindy Hamilton

Meh, I don't care.

Neighbor is a dirtbag harley rider that thinks he's badass cuz he's got loud pipes.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 02:59:42 -0600, Devon Nullo wrote:

On 04/26/2016 03:10 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:37:36 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

Whatever you do, DON'T BURN THE VINES!

Let me repeat that DON'T BURN THE VINES!
Let me add to that. DON"T BURN THE VINES!

You can die.

Only if you're dumb enough to stand downwind of the burn pile.
The stiuff is bad enough to make someone a mile downwind VERY sick if
the wind is right - particularly if you are in an inversion or it's a
bit foggy to hold the smoke down.

Per :
The stiuff is bad enough to make someone a mile downwind VERY sick if
the wind is right - particularly if you are in an inversion or it's a
bit foggy to hold the smoke down.

When I was about nine years old, I found myself in the smoke from
somebody burning vegetation - and not just a couple hundred feet away...
Wound up face, neck, arms, and legs covered with what looked/felt like
poison ivy.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 4/26/2016 8:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/26/2016 1:53 PM, Muggles wrote:
While cleaning up in the back yard, I noticed one 6 foot long vine of
poison ivy on a fence behind the work shop. I was going to go buy some
poison ivy killer from Lowes, but looked up if there was a natural way
to get rid of it. I found this info and wanted to know if anyone else
has tried this:

"Start with a gallon of white vinegar. The €œaverage€� vinegar is 5%
acidic and will work just fine, but if you can find one thats 10% or
20% your mixture will be more potent. Pour the vinegar into a pot and
heat it over the stove. Add 1 cup of salt and stir until the salt
dissolves. Let it cool, then add 2 tablespoons of liquid dish soap.

Vinegar, when diluted with a gallon of water makes a good fertilizer for
acid-loving plants like azaleas, rhododendrons and blueberries. When
mixed full strength with salt, it works very much like Round-Up. The
dish soap helps the mixture to stick to the leaves."
http://mikesbackyardnursery.com/2014...ls-poison-ivy/

I mixed up a small hand sprayer version of this recipe and sprayed the
vines leaves while it was still hot. While the leaves were wet with the
mixture I sprinkled additional salt on the plants leaves. I know salt
will do damage to many plants and even prevent some from growing, so
added the extra salt in case of rain that might or might not clip us in
a couple of hours. I figure the salt will get washed into the soil
below the plant and do some damage that way, too.

Anyway, it's been about an hour since I sprayed it with the hot mixture
and the leaves are already wilting, but, it looks like we may get the
rain I thought was going to miss us. I can re-spray the leaves if need
be, so that isn't a problem.

My question is has anyone tried getting rid of poison ivy and what did
you have to resort to before it finally did the job. I've heard it's
hard to get rid of, but thought I'd try the natural method first before
resorting to dangerous chemicals.

Please let us know what works. Couple days
from now, send another post through the list.
I'm sure plenty of readers will benefit from
a field tester report.

I've heard that burning poison ivy vaporizes
the poison chemical. People who touch or
breathe the smoke or vapors can get poison.
Allergic person who breathes the vapor might
die from lung trouble.


Well, it's rained twice since I sprayed the vine with the hot
vinegar/salt/detergent mixture and 3 out of 4 leaves died already. One
survived and I sprayed it again this morning. The jury is still out.

--
Maggie

On 4/27/2016 9:31 AM, songbird wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
...
I've heard that burning poison ivy vaporizes
the poison chemical. People who touch or
breathe the smoke or vapors can get poison.
Allergic person who breathes the vapor might
die from lung trouble.

yep, that can be a bad move. since i am
reactive to poison ivy and many other plants
i have to be aware of what i'm going into and
keep covered up (then wash things well after-
wards).

here i cut poison ivy back and dig out
the roots that i can get at. it is not a
fast growing vine so manual methods will
work if you are persistent (and careful
about what you are doing).

the thing is that birds/animals will drop
seeds and you can have it return from seeds
previously dropped. so you must do status
checks once in a while to keep it from coming
back.

i would never use salt in any area i was
planning on growing something.


songbird


This spot is on a fence, so, if I have to salt it to kill it, I don't
want anything growing there, anyway.

--
Maggie

On 4/27/2016 12:43 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:53:03 -0500, Muggles wrote:

My question is has anyone tried getting rid of poison ivy and what did
you have to resort to before it finally did the job.

If you know poison oak as I do, the only real way to get rid of an
infestation is mechanical. I suspect poison ivy to be similar, when
in heavy infestations (heavy being defined as entire hillsides so thick
that you can't traverse them on foot due to the vines impeding progress
in all ways except lying on your belly and crawling through the stuff).

Machines are nice, but if you're on steep slopes, as I am, then you
crawl uphill to the source (which is easily 20 or more feet from where
you start at the end of the vines).

Once at the base, you cut and poison. The poison I use is 45% glyphosate,
with a few drops of liquid detergent mixed in, but you can use whatever
works for you.

Your clothes will be stained black from the urushiol (if your clothes
are not literally stained black, then you have never been in poison oak
or ivy of any import).

Usually you have plenty of time to deal with the stuff, so, you can
wait a few weeks before you manually pull it all out (this time you
can start from the edges).

In really heavy stuff, covering entire hillsides, I generally cut
a checkerboard pattern across the hill and up the hill, which
intersects thousands upon thousands of vines, and then I manually
clear it out about a year later.

Expect the genocide to continue for about the next ten years, as
the sprouts will grow back incessantly.

But the only hard work is in the beginning where the poison oak
is so thick that it prevents you walking through it. Once you have
tunnelled your way though it, it just gets easier year after year.

Ask me how I know.


ok. I've got to know, now. How do you know?

--
Maggie

On 4/27/2016 1:31 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:16:05 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

It's not much consolation though, because on those hikes, EVERYONE gets
exposed even though we're all covered from head to toe in double-layer
clothing (even in the hottest weather).

To give you an idea of how we're covered, this is typical garb for
cutting through an impenetrable infestation of poison oak.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917872.jpg


So, how do you keep from getting the rash?

--
Maggie

In article ,
Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:16:05 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

It's not much consolation though, because on those hikes, EVERYONE gets
exposed even though we're all covered from head to toe in double-layer
clothing (even in the hottest weather).

To give you an idea of how we're covered, this is typical garb for
cutting through an impenetrable infestation of poison oak.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917872.jpg

The yellow raincoat i use for poison oak clearing is covered in stick marks like that.
The other half of the equation is TecNu.

m

On 04/27/2016 10:26 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 4/27/2016 1:31 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:16:05 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

It's not much consolation though, because on those hikes, EVERYONE gets
exposed even though we're all covered from head to toe in double-layer
clothing (even in the hottest weather).
To give you an idea of how we're covered, this is typical garb for
cutting through an impenetrable infestation of poison oak.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917872.jpg

So, how do you keep from getting the rash?


As long as I take a shower within 80 minutes of exposure, no rash.
A two hour exposure yields a light rash.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:43:31 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
wrote in

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:53:03 -0500, Muggles wrote:

My question is has anyone tried getting rid of poison ivy and what did
you have to resort to before it finally did the job.

If you know poison oak as I do, the only real way to get rid of an
infestation is mechanical. I suspect poison ivy to be similar, when
in heavy infestations (heavy being defined as entire hillsides so thick
that you can't traverse them on foot due to the vines impeding progress
in all ways except lying on your belly and crawling through the stuff).

In the rural south-east where I live, farmers will put goats out on
the area they want cleared. The goats eat it all.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

CRNG wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:43:31 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
wrote in

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:53:03 -0500, Muggles wrote:

My question is has anyone tried getting rid of poison ivy and what
did you have to resort to before it finally did the job.

If you know poison oak as I do, the only real way to get rid of an
infestation is mechanical. I suspect poison ivy to be similar, when
in heavy infestations (heavy being defined as entire hillsides so
thick that you can't traverse them on foot due to the vines impeding
progress in all ways except lying on your belly and crawling through
the stuff).

In the rural south-east where I live, farmers will put goats out on
the area they want cleared. The goats eat it all.

I wish.

Next door neighbor has 12 acres, I have 10. He has goats and horses, we
have cats.

He was running out of fodder for his goats so asked if he could use my "back
lot". It's only about an acre, I don't use it so I said sure (keeps me from
periodicaly mowing it). He ran some fence, put his goats there a year ago.

Now, it is overrun with weeds; mostly dog fennel and it gets BIG. His place
is also overrun with weeds (never mows). Now I'm going to have to have him
take his goats home so we can eradicate the weeds. Maybe I should let him
do it.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:07:12 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote in

CRNG wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:43:31 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
wrote in

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:53:03 -0500, Muggles wrote:

My question is has anyone tried getting rid of poison ivy and what
did you have to resort to before it finally did the job.

If you know poison oak as I do, the only real way to get rid of an
infestation is mechanical. I suspect poison ivy to be similar, when
in heavy infestations (heavy being defined as entire hillsides so
thick that you can't traverse them on foot due to the vines impeding
progress in all ways except lying on your belly and crawling through
the stuff).

In the rural south-east where I live, farmers will put goats out on
the area they want cleared. The goats eat it all.

I wish.

Next door neighbor has 12 acres, I have 10. He has goats and horses, we
have cats.

He was running out of fodder for his goats so asked if he could use my "back
lot". It's only about an acre, I don't use it so I said sure (keeps me from
periodicaly mowing it). He ran some fence, put his goats there a year ago.

Now, it is overrun with weeds; mostly dog fennel and it gets BIG. His place
is also overrun with weeds (never mows). Now I'm going to have to have him
take his goats home so we can eradicate the weeds. Maybe I should let him
do it.


That's interesting. I wonder if different goats are used for
"clearing"?
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:26:32 -0500, Muggles wrote:

So, how do you keep from getting the rash?

Preventing an allergic reaction is science unto itself.

Bear in mind that almost EVERYTHING you read on the net is bad advice.

The guy to read is William L. Epstein, whose papers are the best
I have ever found.

Almost all the crap you read on the net are old wives tales (e.g.,
shower with cold water only, use Tecnu only, etc.).

It's just chemistry and immunology.
Complex yes.
But it's science.

The urushiol is an oily alcohol, so, you treat it as such.

Unfortunately, the molecular size is such that it *diffuses* through
your outer layers of skin within fifteen or twenty minutes, so, you
don't have a lot of time to wholly prevent the langerhan's cells
from uptake of the urushiol which is oxidized to a quinone.

Once your body starts reacting to the quinone with a cytokine storm,
you're gonna get the rash. All you can do is ameliorate it if you
get to the cytokine stage.

Before that, we use clothes. Lots of clothes. You can see that
from my photos. The trick is to keep it off the skin, and, the second
trick is almost impossible, which is to wash it off within fifteen minutes
(which, if you're doing any real work, isn't a feasible time period).

Luckily Epstein has lots of studies published, but you have to go to
a research library to read most of them.

Here's just one by the way, which gives you an idea of the immunology
involved (suffice to say that most people can't handle this stuff as it's
not filled enough with old wives tales so they can't understand it).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371294/

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 02:25:24 -0600, Itchy wrote:

As long as I take a shower within 80 minutes of exposure, no rash.
A two hour exposure yields a light rash.

Everyone has their own personal remedy, but, the problem is that the urushiol
(which is an oily alcohol because it's a plant oil) is so small in
molecular size that it easily diffuses through your outer layer of skin.

Once inside the inner layers, the urushiol is oxidized to a quinone,
and at that stage, if your immune system has formed a template for it,
you'll get a reaction which consists of cytokines and other typical
type IV CMI responses.

Once you have a type IV CMI response, you can only try to minimize
it, but, studies (see Epstein et. al.) have shown as little as 15 minutes
are needed for the urushiol to be oxidized to the reactive quinone.

Having said that, other studies I've read imply that you have as much
as two days to substitute the quinone with small surfactants such
as (of all things) non-oxenol 9 (aka spermacide), because these tiny
surfactants have an affinity for the same receptors that hold the
quinone (yet, they're not reactive immunologically).

Anyway, everyone seems to have their own pet solution (and I have my
own too!) but a LOT depends on how heavily you're exposed (remember, I
am sometimes slathered in the stuff) and for how long and what you're
wearing and how oily your skin is and what your prior immune response
was, etc.

In other words, YMMV (greatly).

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:25:09 +0000, Fake ID wrote:

The yellow raincoat i use for poison oak clearing is covered in stick marks like that.
The other half of the equation is TecNu.

I looked up all the ingredients in Tecnu and Zanfel and I reproduce them
in household chemicals because I am so covered in urushiol that I couldn't
afford the $40/ounce creams when a 10 cents/ounce surfactant works almost
as well.

Only the government can afford that stuff at the amounts that you need
to clean up after being literally covered in urushiol.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:17:00 -0500, Muggles wrote:

This spot is on a fence, so, if I have to salt it to kill it, I don't
want anything growing there, anyway.

I'm with the crowd that says the best *replacement* for poison oak
is the natural foliage of the area given the climate.

I doubt salts provide all that much of a foothold for the natural
inhabitants, so, I, myself, cut, paint, and remove.

Of course, I did mention that this is a ten-year project, and I'm
only in about my fourth year - so - time will tell.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:20:20 -0500, Muggles wrote:

ok. I've got to know, now. How do you know?

I've cleaned hundreds of square yards (about 500 yards by about 500 yards) of
a hillside of the stuff. And there is plenty more to go.

Anyone who says they can 'spray' or 'salt' and win, isn't dealing with
the same numbers that I'm dealing with.

The only thing that works in the size I'm dealing with is mechanical means,
although after cutting I always paint the big vines (anything over an inch or
so in diameter) to prevent regrowth (which is inevitable until it's completely
removed - which is a ten-year effort).

They poison oak has a fifty-year head start on me, so, ten years is about
right.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:54:05 -0500, CRNG wrote:

In the rural south-east where I live, farmers will put goats out on
the area they want cleared. The goats eat it all.

I have neighbors who volunteered their goats, but the area isn't fenced.
They said if I fence it, I'm welcome to borrow the goats.

Fencing would cost too much on this steep hillside though.

On 4/28/2016 1:20 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:17:00 -0500, Muggles wrote:

This spot is on a fence, so, if I have to salt it to kill it, I don't
want anything growing there, anyway.

I'm with the crowd that says the best *replacement* for poison oak
is the natural foliage of the area given the climate.

I doubt salts provide all that much of a foothold for the natural
inhabitants, so, I, myself, cut, paint, and remove.

Of course, I did mention that this is a ten-year project, and I'm
only in about my fourth year - so - time will tell.


How do you keep it from getting on your skin when you're trying to take
off all the clothes you're wearing to protect your skin?? Then there's
the oil on your gloves, and how do you clean the clothes and gloves so
you can re-use them w/o getting the oil on you that way?

--
Maggie

On 4/28/2016 1:23 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:20:20 -0500, Muggles wrote:

ok. I've got to know, now. How do you know?

I've cleaned hundreds of square yards (about 500 yards by about 500 yards) of
a hillside of the stuff. And there is plenty more to go.

Anyone who says they can 'spray' or 'salt' and win, isn't dealing with
the same numbers that I'm dealing with.

The only thing that works in the size I'm dealing with is mechanical means,
although after cutting I always paint the big vines (anything over an inch or
so in diameter) to prevent regrowth (which is inevitable until it's completely
removed - which is a ten-year effort).

They poison oak has a fifty-year head start on me, so, ten years is about
right.


So, do you itch all the time? And is it contagious? LOL

--
Maggie

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 18:59:43 -0500, Muggles wrote:

How do you keep it from getting on your skin when you're trying to take
off all the clothes you're wearing to protect your skin?? Then there's
the oil on your gloves, and how do you clean the clothes and gloves so
you can re-use them w/o getting the oil on you that way?

All good questions.

You have found the real problem.

The real problem, like any problem, isn't the problem you KNOW about; it's
the problem you don't know about.

Specifically, you can't SEE urushiol on clothes except as wet spots if
you're lucky (it turns black later, after oxidizing, and, in fact, the
name urushiol comes from its use as a black lacquer in Japan).

That is, if you're unaware that your BOOTS and TOOLS and DOGS have
urushiol all over them, then, that problem is the REAL problem (not
the fact that your clothes are slathered with the stuff because you KNOW
your clothes are covered in the oily alcohol.

Actually, once you're aware, it's pretty easy; but it's the people who
aren't aware who unknowingly contaminate everything!

1. Assume EVERYTHING is grossly contaminated (because it is!)
2. Remove your boots outside, and leave them outside.
3. Remove your clothes outside, and put them in the washer.
(Contrary to the old wives tales, you can wash your wife's delicate
undies with your grossly contaminated clothes - and it won't matter.
It's probably not a good idea - but it won't matter as the stuff
washes out very easily in the wash in my experience).

For the tools and boots and gloves, what "I" do is I pretty much
ignore the boots and gloves (they just have to stay contaminated).
I just don't bring them in the house. They're leather, so, they're
hard to wash (I gave up after ruining a few pairs).

For the tools, I leave them outside as well and just hose them down
if I bother (generally I don't even bother).

The urushiol has been studied (by Epstein) to be active for 100 years
(it's just an oil so there's not much to break it down) if it's kept
safe in dendrology drawers.

However, outside, it does break down, but it could take years (five to
10 years are what I've heard the most, for dead vines). Longer if it's
dry and shorter if it's wet. But, the point is, the oil is just an oil,
so, think about it as motor oil.

How long would motor oil last if it were left outside on your tools?

Anyway, in practice, the real problem is NOT KNOWING that your tools,
gloves, dogs, and boots are covered in the stuff. Once you known it,
you just give them the respect they deserve and you keep them from
coming in the house.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 19:01:24 -0500, Muggles wrote:

So, do you itch all the time? And is it contagious? LOL

It's a wives tale that the rash "spreads". It can't spread once it
has penetrated into your skin. What people "think" is spreading is
re-infection, which is EASY if you don't realize the tools, boots,
gloves, dogs, even towels have the oil on them.

Just think of it as motor oil contamination and treat it
accordingly.

It's impossible to mechanically remove as much poison oak as I do
and not get some oil on the skin, but, the most important trick is
to *assume* it's everywhere (i.e., between the fingers, behind the
ear, between each toe, on the back of the neck, etc.).

Once you assume it's everywhere, you cover yourself head to toe
in Dawn or Palmolive so thick in white paste that you look like a
ghost. Every inch of your body (yes, every inch) gets covered in
the white paste.

For good measure, I do that three times when I come back inside
after a day's work (anyone who can shower every 15 minutes must
work for the government, so, even though that would be optimal,
it's not gonna happen).

Suffice to say it's a nice long hot shower (anyone who says you
should showed in cold water is a fool because the more comfortable
the shower, the more likely you'll shower and it's the showering
that matters since your hair is certainly covered in the oil as
is your face and neck and wrists and ankles).

The rest of the body seems to be relatively free, although
there are times that the delicate webbing between the toes
and fingers drives me crazy before I learned to assume it's
everywhere during that most important long hot slathery shower.

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 20:34:43 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
The stiuff is bad enough to make someone a mile downwind VERY sick if
the wind is right - particularly if you are in an inversion or it's a
bit foggy to hold the smoke down.

When I was about nine years old, I found myself in the smoke from
somebody burning vegetation - and not just a couple hundred feet away...
Wound up face, neck, arms, and legs covered with what looked/felt like
poison ivy.

At least you didn't inhale.