On 20 Apr 2016 17:59:40 GMT, KenK wrote:

I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA

Obviously it would be easier to do it without the appliances in the way.
If it's not occupied, remove them first. But other than that, it really
dont much matter.

You could probably do this yourself if you have the knowledge and it's
alllowed by code to wire it yourself. All you need is a double pole
breaker of the proper size (Usually 30A for a water heater and 50A for a
range), use the proper gauge wire, and run it from the panel to the
location of the appliance. For the range, you'll need the correct sized
receptacle, which you mount to the wall behind the range. For the water
heater, it gets direct wired to the WH.

I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA


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You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 1:59:46 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.


Do you know if the "installers of the new/used stove and heater" even know
how to install the circuits?

Are they licensed electricians?

Do you know if you need a permit/will they obtain it if so?

(I lean towards "No" as the answer to all three/four questions, but that's
just me.)

On 04/20/2016 12:59 PM, KenK wrote:
I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

If you're not running them yourself, I'd get the electrician to do it
first. Unless you're using a "real" appliance dealer who actually has
somebody more than just a delivery boy or two, they'll likely have to
sub it out, anyway. I've never seen delivery on appliances be anything
more than a truck driver and beef with barely the ability to plug into
an existing outlet. Pulling and installing a new service line to the
locations would be _FAR_ out of their pay grade/competency.

--

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 1:59:46 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA

First question is if it's replacing, then why do you need to run electric
at all? If the existing circuit is of sufficient ampacity for the new
stove, then you probably don't need to run anything. Second, unless it's
a power vent water heater, or tankless, etc, you may not need AC for
the gas water heater. You'd only need 240V for a tankless, the power vent
type just plug into an AC receptacle.

If you do need to have wiring done, then IDK how it works where you are,
but around here, the typical appliance installer folks from say a store,
aren't going to run electric. Sounds like it's a two step process. Get
an electrician to do the work, if it's necessary, then have the installers
just hook it up when the new appliances arrive.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 12:59:40 -0500, KenK wrote:

I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines
while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it
matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are
was
vacant.

TIA

I'd be concerned about liability in a rented unit if a non licensed
person ran the electrical.


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Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:35:08 -0500, "Dean Hoffman"
wrote:


I'd be concerned about liability in a rented unit if a non licensed
person ran the electrical.

+ 1 And disclosure laws when the unit is sold. I'd get a statement
of work, materials list and permit final inspection approval.

Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing changing is
other.

wrote in message news
On 20 Apr 2016 17:59:40 GMT, KenK wrote:

I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA

Obviously it would be easier to do it without the appliances in the way.
If it's not occupied, remove them first. But other than that, it really
dont much matter.

You could probably do this yourself if you have the knowledge and it's
alllowed by code to wire it yourself. All you need is a double pole
breaker of the proper size (Usually 30A for a water heater and 50A for a
range), use the proper gauge wire, and run it from the panel to the
location of the appliance. For the range, you'll need the correct sized
receptacle, which you mount to the wall behind the range. For the water
heater, it gets direct wired to the WH.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing changing is
other.


Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

On 4/20/2016 1:59 PM, KenK wrote:
I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA



Unless he is going to use the same holes in a wall or floor it won't
make any difference.

IMO, you are downgrading the value of the place. The rest of the world
is ditching electric in favor of more economical gas

On 04/20/2016 03:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing changing is
other.

Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

If you do something really stupid like wiring an electric water heater with #14 wire and land it on a 30A breaker causing your house to burn
down, your claim will most likely be denied.

Wire it to code or better and you'll likely be OK.

FWIW, it doesn't really cost that much more to do it right.

On 4/20/2016 5:24 PM, Wally wrote:
On 04/20/2016 03:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing
changing is
other.

Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

If you do something really stupid like wiring an electric water heater
with #14 wire and land it on a 30A breaker causing your house to burn
down, your claim will most likely be denied.

Wire it to code or better and you'll likely be OK.

FWIW, it doesn't really cost that much more to do it right.


Companies often pay for owner stupidity.

I believe that I have give reasonable advice how are you guys want to take
it; that is up to you?
I have being trouble shooter for 37 years and I saw personally four
distribution panels totally
burn out, Yes this was industrial panels not domestic, one have taking sub
station down three
blocks way where Electricians have work three days 24 hours day to get it
replace where I was
sitting on my ass $110.00 hour waiting for them to give me power so I can
continue with my work.
all this because some smart ass wanted to save $10.00 it did not work it
coast them 10 time
if it was fix first time. There was others on three different places, but
those
because it on my side of machinery I was able to fix with in half day.
My point is dont try to save on Electrical component's it can come
to bit you in the ass.
Always give yourself margin of 15-25% more than you need when it come to
power!!!


wrote in message news
On 20 Apr 2016 17:59:40 GMT, KenK wrote:

I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA

Obviously it would be easier to do it without the appliances in the way.
If it's not occupied, remove them first. But other than that, it really
dont much matter.

You could probably do this yourself if you have the knowledge and it's
alllowed by code to wire it yourself. All you need is a double pole
breaker of the proper size (Usually 30A for a water heater and 50A for a
range), use the proper gauge wire, and run it from the panel to the
location of the appliance. For the range, you'll need the correct sized
receptacle, which you mount to the wall behind the range. For the water
heater, it gets direct wired to the WH.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 7:18:32 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
I believe that I have give reasonable advice how are you guys want to take
it; that is up to you?
I have being trouble shooter for 37 years and I saw personally four
distribution panels totally
burn out, Yes this was industrial panels not domestic, one have taking sub
station down three
blocks way where Electricians have work three days 24 hours day to get it
replace where I was
sitting on my ass $110.00 hour waiting for them to give me power so I can
continue with my work.
all this because some smart ass wanted to save $10.00 it did not work it
coast them 10 time
if it was fix first time. There was others on three different places, but
those
because it on my side of machinery I was able to fix with in half day.
My point is don't try to save on Electrical component's it can come
to bit you in the ass.
Always give yourself margin of 15-25% more than you need when it come to
power!!!


wrote in message news
On 20 Apr 2016 17:59:40 GMT, KenK wrote:

I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA

Obviously it would be easier to do it without the appliances in the way.
If it's not occupied, remove them first. But other than that, it really
dont much matter.

You could probably do this yourself if you have the knowledge and it's
alllowed by code to wire it yourself. All you need is a double pole
breaker of the proper size (Usually 30A for a water heater and 50A for a
range), use the proper gauge wire, and run it from the panel to the
location of the appliance. For the range, you'll need the correct sized
receptacle, which you mount to the wall behind the range. For the water
heater, it gets direct wired to the WH.

Tony944,

The convention in this group is to post inline where appropriate or to
bottom post in general. Top posting is not the standard.

Thanks for listening!

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:43:17 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing changing is
other.


Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

Often asked, never seen one case presented yet.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 5:24:45 PM UTC-4, Wally wrote:
On 04/20/2016 03:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing changing is
other.

Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

If you do something really stupid like wiring an electric water heater with #14 wire and land it on a 30A breaker causing your house to burn
down, your claim will most likely be denied.


Show us an actual example. If this happens, in a country with 320 mil
people, there should be cases galore.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 6:22:18 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 5:24 PM, Wally wrote:
On 04/20/2016 03:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing
changing is
other.

Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

If you do something really stupid like wiring an electric water heater
with #14 wire and land it on a 30A breaker causing your house to burn
down, your claim will most likely be denied.

Wire it to code or better and you'll likely be OK.

FWIW, it doesn't really cost that much more to do it right.


Companies often pay for owner stupidity.

That's one of the main sources of homeowner claims and one of
the main purposes of the insurance to beging with, isn't it?

Leave a pot on a burner, kitchen fire
Fall asleep smoking, burn house down
Leave bathtub running, flood house.
Leave crap on sidewalk, fail to remove ice, granny falls

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 1:59 PM, KenK wrote:
I am replacing the gas hot water heater and the stove/oven in my vacant
rental with electric. Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater put in the services for their unit? Or doesn't it matter?
Seems like it would be easier if the space where the existing units are was
vacant.

TIA



Unless he is going to use the same holes in a wall or floor it won't
make any difference.

IMO, you are downgrading the value of the place. The rest of the world
is ditching electric in favor of more economical gas

Good point. I misread it and took it to mean that he was replacing
an electric stove and a gas water heater. That's why I asked about
the existing circuits and why he needed 240V for a gas heater.
I agree, IDK why anyone would replace a gas water water heater with
electric. The stove, I could see, based on preference. I prefer
an electric oven, probably gas for a range. But if it's a rental,
I don't see why he wants the added expense of running power for those
two new appliances and an electric water heater costs substantially
more to run. Also, depending on the service, the panel, etc, is it
just putting in two new breakers or is it more than that? If it
requires a subpanel or more, the cost goes up.

On 4/20/2016 8:39 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 1:59 PM, KenK wrote:
Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater

IMO, you are downgrading the value of the place. The rest of the world
is ditching electric in favor of more economical gas

Good point. I misread it and took it to mean that he was replacing
an electric stove and a gas water heater. That's why I asked about
the existing circuits and why he needed 240V for a gas heater.
I agree, IDK why anyone would replace a gas water water heater with
electric. The stove, I could see, based on preference. I prefer
an electric oven, probably gas for a range. But if it's a rental,
I don't see why he wants the added expense of running power for those
two new appliances and an electric water heater costs substantially
more to run. Also, depending on the service, the panel, etc, is it
just putting in two new breakers or is it more than that? If it
requires a subpanel or more, the cost goes up.



Note he mentions "new/used" appliances. Could be low end section 8
housing and he wants cheap. As in, cheap, no matter how much it costs.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:51:34 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 8:39 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 4:15:16 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/20/2016 1:59 PM, KenK wrote:
Should I have the electrician run the new lines while
these are still in place or should I have the installers of the new/used
stove and heater

IMO, you are downgrading the value of the place. The rest of the world
is ditching electric in favor of more economical gas

Good point. I misread it and took it to mean that he was replacing
an electric stove and a gas water heater. That's why I asked about
the existing circuits and why he needed 240V for a gas heater.
I agree, IDK why anyone would replace a gas water water heater with
electric. The stove, I could see, based on preference. I prefer
an electric oven, probably gas for a range. But if it's a rental,
I don't see why he wants the added expense of running power for those
two new appliances and an electric water heater costs substantially
more to run. Also, depending on the service, the panel, etc, is it
just putting in two new breakers or is it more than that? If it
requires a subpanel or more, the cost goes up.



Note he mentions "new/used" appliances. Could be low end section 8
housing and he wants cheap. As in, cheap, no matter how much it costs.

Another interesting point, that makes it even stranger. I missed
the new/used part too. Going with used appliances and then paying
to convert from gas to electric does not compute. But then maybe
he didn't get a quote on the electric work either. Wouldn't be
surprised for that to exceed the cost of the appliances.

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 5:24:45 PM UTC-4, Wally wrote:
On 04/20/2016 03:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 3:35:15 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
Yes you defiantly need Electrician to size the service and hook up
"License one" which is require if you want insurance to be effective,
and perhaps your city permit replacing something is one thing changing is
other.

Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?

If you do something really stupid like wiring an electric water heater with #14 wire and land it on a 30A breaker causing your house to burn
down, your claim will most likely be denied.

Prove it.


Wire it to code or better and you'll likely be OK.

FWIW, it doesn't really cost that much more to do it right.

That wasn't my point. We often hear people say things like "...if you want
insurance to be effective" yet we never hear of a claim that was denied
because a DIYer did it themselves - even if they did it wrong.

Do you actually know of a case where the claim was denied or are you
just repeating what you *believe* to be true but no one has actually
heard of happening?

On 4/20/2016 3:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Can anyone cite a case where an insurance company didn't pay because
an electrical installation was not done by a licensed electrician?


I did web search. None found. Maybe
wrong key words.

Water heater takes 10 gage copper,
on a double 30.

range takes 6 gage, IIRC. On a double
50 breaker.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

That's OK. Tony and I get along fine.

At least he trims text.
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/20/2016 8:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 7:18:32 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
I believe that I have give reasonable advice how are you guys want to take
it; that is up to you?
I have being trouble shooter for 37 years and I saw personally four
distribution panels totally

Tony944,

The convention in this group is to post inline where appropriate or to
bottom post in general. Top posting is not the standard.

Thanks for listening!

On 4/20/16 4:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
IMO, you are downgrading the value of the place. The rest of the world
is ditching electric in favor of more economical gas

Have to agree with the above.
I can't see what advantages there are in moving from gas TO electric.

What is the OP's reason for doing so?