Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Questions:

a. What brands of this type of item are considered the "best" ?

b. How thick ?

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

d. Do they also use the typical "felt" layer underneath
this rubberized sheet ?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-4, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Questions:

a. What brands of this type of item are considered the "best" ?


I don't remember which product was used on my roof. It wasn't the most
expensive, but not the cheapest either. But then I had no water barrier
product like that for the prior 30 years and no ice damming ever, I live
in NJ.



b. How thick ?

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?


Current national building code, that most places follow, require it
to extend up the roof from the lowest point to 2 ft past the heated
living space. So, if you have a 2 ft soffit overhang at the bottom
of the roof and then a wall where the living space starts, the barrier
would extend 4 ft up the roof. The thinking is that's where ice
damming can occur, with water backing up under the shingles.





d. Do they also use the typical "felt" layer underneath
this rubberized sheet ?

No, it's used instead of felt or similar. It has a sticky backing,
covered with paper, that gets peeled off. It then immediately sticks
to the sheathing. And it's gooey, flexible enough that it will seal
around the shingle nails. Felt is used the rest of
the way up. If you want better protection for the whole roof, there
are products that are impervious to water, tough, that can be used.
They cost more than felt, but offer much better protection if shingles
get blown off.

When getting the roof done, I'd make sure you have correct, adequate
venting, both at the soffits and the peaks. Most building experts now
agree that continuous ridge and soffit venting works best. Easy to do
that right when doing the roof and it's important. For a ridge vent,
I'd go with one like Air Vent Shingle Vent II, that's what I used.

Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"
....
Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.


i think this is now pretty standard treatment and should
be normal up past the eaves where ice dams are likely to
happen. 5-6ft would probably do.

some roofers will give you extra options for making
this even better (ours cost an extra $300, but added
another 15yrs to the warrantee).

considering the expense it is probably well worth it.
had our roof been done correctly the first time the
amount of decking and labor costs we had to cover this
time around could have easily been offset by the better
protection.

the same applies to type of shingles. always get the
better ones (several layers thick) and always check
references and get multiple quotes. go look at some
of their jobs. some roofers are messy and leave poor
edges, etc. check BBB too.

we had a wide range of quotes and some were outrageous
(3x more!).


songbird

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-4, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Questions:

a. What brands of this type of item are considered the "best" ?

b. How thick ?

Answers to both a & b:

I don't think that "thickness" is the proper thing to be concerned with.
I would think it's more important to ensure that it meets or exceeds
specific industry standards and local code requirements.

Some info he (my roofer used all GAF products as part of the GAF
Lifetime Roofing System)

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti.../Leak_Barriers

The underlayment might need to be "associated" with the shingles used
in order to ensure that all warranties are kept intact. It may be a money
game, but some shingle manufacturers may not warranty their shingles unless
their underlayment is used. In some cases, you might get a lesser warranty.

IOW, even if you find a barrier that is deemed the "best", your shingle
manufacturer might not allow you use and also maintain your shingle warranty.


c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

It will depend on the roof construction and the pitch. I think it's about
2 feet into the heated space for a "normally" pitched roof. However, I have
a fairly flat section of roof over an addition and every roofer I spoke to
quoted full ice barrier for the entire section. (The section is only about
12' x 16' so it was really only a couple of more strips than they would have
used anyway. The peace of mind was worth the minimal extra cost.)

My reading has shown that full ice barrier on flat roofs is the norm. Is it
a money grab? I don't really know.


d. Do they also use the typical "felt" layer underneath
this rubberized sheet ?

First, depending on the shingle manufacturer, they may not use "felt", they
may use a different type of underlayment. GAF uses Deck Armor:

http://www.gaf.com/Residential_Roofi...r_Brochure.pdf

AFAIK, most manufacturers want their barrier installed directly onto the
deck. I have read some articles that claim that installing it over an
underlayment makes it easier to remove at a later date (ice barrier has
an adhesive backing) but the bottom line is to follow the specific
manufacturer's instructions to ensure that the warranty stays intact.

I've also seen mixed messages on underlayment/felt *over* the ice barrier.
Again, it may be specific to the "system" you and your roofer choose.


Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 10:43:53 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 9:18:55 AM UTC-4, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Questions:

a. What brands of this type of item are considered the "best" ?

b. How thick ?

Answers to both a & b:

I don't think that "thickness" is the proper thing to be concerned with.
I would think it's more important to ensure that it meets or exceeds
specific industry standards and local code requirements.

Some info he (my roofer used all GAF products as part of the GAF
Lifetime Roofing System)

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti.../Leak_Barriers

The underlayment might need to be "associated" with the shingles used
in order to ensure that all warranties are kept intact. It may be a money
game, but some shingle manufacturers may not warranty their shingles unless
their underlayment is used. In some cases, you might get a lesser warranty.

IOW, even if you find a barrier that is deemed the "best", your shingle
manufacturer might not allow you use and also maintain your shingle warranty.


c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

It will depend on the roof construction and the pitch. I think it's about
2 feet into the heated space for a "normally" pitched roof. However, I have
a fairly flat section of roof over an addition and every roofer I spoke to
quoted full ice barrier for the entire section.

Good point. When I said 2 ft into the heated space and not doing the
whole section, I was thinking of a typical pitched roof. If you have
one where it's at the low end of acceptable pitch, then I agree, using
barrier on the whole section is right.

On 4/18/2016 8:18 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Also know generically as ice dam barrier.

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

Check with your local building code. Around here it is required from
the eave to three feet upward of the wall/eave line. That's the
minimum coverage. No reason not to wrap the whole roof with it
(excluding ride if you're using a ridge vent), if you want.

d. Do they also use the typical "felt" layer underneath
this rubberized sheet ?

Find out what you local building code requires.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 11:53:50 AM UTC-4, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 4/18/2016 8:18 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Also know generically as ice dam barrier.

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

Check with your local building code. Around here it is required from
the eave to three feet upward of the wall/eave line. That's the
minimum coverage. No reason not to wrap the whole roof with it
(excluding ride if you're using a ridge vent), if you want.

No reason other than cost.


d. Do they also use the typical "felt" layer underneath
this rubberized sheet ?

Find out what you local building code requires.

There has to a balance between code, shingle manufacturer, barrier
manufacturer, warranty, etc.

Wouldn't it suck if code voided the warranty? I'd be surprised if it did,
but it sure would suck. Which would you choose? ;-)

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 1:49:12 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 11:53:50 AM UTC-4, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 4/18/2016 8:18 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Also know generically as ice dam barrier.

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

Check with your local building code. Around here it is required from
the eave to three feet upward of the wall/eave line. That's the
minimum coverage. No reason not to wrap the whole roof with it
(excluding ride if you're using a ridge vent), if you want.

No reason other than cost.


There are other reasons not to do the whole roof, which actually I think
you touched on. Once you have that sticky rubbery sheet applied, it makes
any future sheathing inspection, replacement, etc more difficult. With felt
or similar, with a future tear off, you just rip it off and you can easily
inspect and see the sheathing. Not so easy with a rubber sheet glued over
the whole thing. I would not do the whole thing, unless like you said,
it's a very low pitch roof. But cost is an issue, that barrier product is
many times the cost of felt.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 2:53:35 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 1:49:12 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 11:53:50 AM UTC-4, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 4/18/2016 8:18 AM, Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"

Also know generically as ice dam barrier.

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

Check with your local building code. Around here it is required from
the eave to three feet upward of the wall/eave line. That's the
minimum coverage. No reason not to wrap the whole roof with it
(excluding ride if you're using a ridge vent), if you want.

No reason other than cost.


There are other reasons not to do the whole roof, which actually I think
you touched on. Once you have that sticky rubbery sheet applied, it makes
any future sheathing inspection, replacement, etc more difficult. With felt
or similar, with a future tear off, you just rip it off and you can easily
inspect and see the sheathing. Not so easy with a rubber sheet glued over
the whole thing. I would not do the whole thing, unless like you said,
it's a very low pitch roof. But cost is an issue, that barrier product is
many times the cost of felt.

Good point. I forgot my own good point. :-)

In article , says...

Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"
...
Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.


i think this is now pretty standard treatment and should
be normal up past the eaves where ice dams are likely to
happen. 5-6ft would probably do.

some roofers will give you extra options for making
this even better (ours cost an extra $300, but added
another 15yrs to the warrantee).

considering the expense it is probably well worth it.
had our roof been done correctly the first time the
amount of decking and labor costs we had to cover this
time around could have easily been offset by the better
protection.

the same applies to type of shingles. always get the
better ones (several layers thick) and always check
references and get multiple quotes. go look at some
of their jobs. some roofers are messy and leave poor
edges, etc. check BBB too.

we had a wide range of quotes and some were outrageous
(3x more!).



I had my roof re shingled last summer. I was given the option of a
different underlayment and a few other things. For about $ 300 or so it
jumped the wrrenty up to 50 years. Should be good for my lifetime.

There did seem to be a wide range of charges. I used the Home Advisor
on the internet (as seen on TV) and with in 2 or 3 hours I got calls
from 4 places so told them to come out, at different times. Got the
quotes and it was from a low of about $ 6500 to about $ 18,000 for a
bout 27 squares. I think I went with one that was the second lowest as
it was still under $ 7000 and the company had been around for a good
number of years.

About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
....
I had my roof re shingled last summer. I was given the option of a
different underlayment and a few other things. For about $ 300 or so it
jumped the wrrenty up to 50 years. Should be good for my lifetime.

sounds about the same.


There did seem to be a wide range of charges. I used the Home Advisor
on the internet (as seen on TV) and with in 2 or 3 hours I got calls
from 4 places so told them to come out, at different times. Got the
quotes and it was from a low of about $ 6500 to about $ 18,000 for a
bout 27 squares. I think I went with one that was the second lowest as
it was still under $ 7000 and the company had been around for a good
number of years.

About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

we had a small tornado go through a few summers ago.
not a single leak and no shingles moved.

took two neighbors garages off and did some damage to
the house behind us and others down the road and such,
but luckily we were off to the side of it by a few
hundred yards.

not every day you look out your window and see a
garage missing...


songbird

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...

Bob wrote:
Hello,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.

Will be having our roof shingles replaced.

It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"
...
Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.


i think this is now pretty standard treatment and should
be normal up past the eaves where ice dams are likely to
happen. 5-6ft would probably do.

some roofers will give you extra options for making
this even better (ours cost an extra $300, but added
another 15yrs to the warrantee).

considering the expense it is probably well worth it.
had our roof been done correctly the first time the
amount of decking and labor costs we had to cover this
time around could have easily been offset by the better
protection.

the same applies to type of shingles. always get the
better ones (several layers thick) and always check
references and get multiple quotes. go look at some
of their jobs. some roofers are messy and leave poor
edges, etc. check BBB too.

we had a wide range of quotes and some were outrageous
(3x more!).



I had my roof re shingled last summer. I was given the option of a
different underlayment and a few other things. For about $ 300 or so it
jumped the wrrenty up to 50 years. Should be good for my lifetime.

There did seem to be a wide range of charges. I used the Home Advisor
on the internet (as seen on TV) and with in 2 or 3 hours I got calls
from 4 places so told them to come out, at different times. Got the
quotes and it was from a low of about $ 6500 to about $ 18,000 for a
bout 27 squares. I think I went with one that was the second lowest as
it was still under $ 7000 and the company had been around for a good
number of years.

About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?

On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?


Yes. I'm curious if he would have said "6 or 8 Italians showed up" or "2 French guys, a Pollack,
and 3 Canadians showed up" or "An African, a Jew, 3 Arabs and guy from Wisconsin showed
up"

Just curious as to why he felt the need to tell us the nationality of the workers.

(Don't worry...I haven't forgotten that you have done similar things in the past)

Hi Bob,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.
Will be having our roof shingles replaced.
It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"
Questions:
a. What brands of this type of item are considered the "best" ?
b. How thick ?

I "think" Grace Ice and Water Shield was the original, but I would assume
most brands are similar. I used IKO brand on my roof as that's what my
shingle supplier stocked.

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

The ice and water shield should extend from the lower edge of the roof to
a point that is 2-3 feet beyond the outside wall of the heated space.

Low slope roofs (less than 4/12 pitch) should be covered entirely with
the weather membrane.

It's also wise to install it in the roof valley's to seal up any nail
penetrations.

In cold climates, you should also use it along the edge of gable ends.

While not entirely necessary, I also used the membrane around major roof
openings for our woodstove chimney flashing and plumbing vent.

There's no reason to cover the entire roof with the membrane, unless the
roof is small enough that you might as well fill in the remainder of the
roof after adhering to the above recommendations.

d. Do they also use the typical "felt" layer
underneath this rubberized sheet ?

The weather membrane is self adhesive and applied directly to the wood
decking. Roofing felt is not applied on top of the membrane, except where
upper rows of felt overlap lower rows of membrane.

For the areas not covered with the membrane, I recommend using 30# felt.
It costs slightly more, but is stronger and holds up better than the
cheaper 15# felt.

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated.

Be prepared for sticker shock.

I paid $800 for our shingles in 2003 when we built our house. When I
bought the exact same shingles in 2013 the price had ballooned to $4000!

Also, be sure metal drip edge is installed on all outer edges of your
roof.

Good luck,

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

DerbyDad03 wrote:
....
Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?

i should have mentioned that the guys who worked on our
roof were all fairly younger white guys, most smoked,
one was stupid enough to smoke weed (i smelled it) and
the crew foreman didn't notice or didn't care. i didn't
say anything either. as long as nobody fell off the
roof...

i think it would be a tough job to do that all season.
at least they didn't have to carry stuff up ladders. a
hi-low came with the truck and set the stuff right on
the roof.


songbird

On 4/18/2016 9:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?


Yes. I'm curious if he would have said "6 or 8 Italians showed up" or "2 French guys, a Pollack,
and 3 Canadians showed up" or "An African, a Jew, 3 Arabs and guy from Wisconsin showed
up"

Just curious as to why he felt the need to tell us the nationality of the workers.

(Don't worry...I haven't forgotten that you have done similar things in the past)


I'm remembering watching All In The Family, decades
ago, and Archie Bunker comments on an election.
Been a long time, but his comment was some thing
like "Now, there's a balanced ticket. A wop, a
Jew, and a regular American."

As a group, Mexicans can be excellent roofers. More
so than eskimos, for example. I think the ethnicity
factor can be interesting to read.

BTW, do you support diversity?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/19/2016 6:52 AM, songbird wrote:
i should have mentioned that the guys who worked on our
roof were all fairly younger white guys, most smoked,
one was stupid enough to smoke weed (i smelled it) and
the crew foreman didn't notice or didn't care. i didn't
say anything either. as long as nobody fell off the
roof...

i think it would be a tough job to do that all season.
at least they didn't have to carry stuff up ladders. a
hi-low came with the truck and set the stuff right on
the roof.


songbird


I've carried shingles to a single story roof;
that's a lot of work, for sure.

You might have called the cops on that MJ smoker.
That's rather unsafe to be doing roof work while
stoned. Smoking is also unwise. Carbon monoxide,
and risk of starting a fire.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:03:46 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/18/2016 9:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?


Yes. I'm curious if he would have said "6 or 8 Italians showed up" or "2 French guys, a Pollack,
and 3 Canadians showed up" or "An African, a Jew, 3 Arabs and guy from Wisconsin showed
up"

Just curious as to why he felt the need to tell us the nationality of the workers.

(Don't worry...I haven't forgotten that you have done similar things in the past)


I'm remembering watching All In The Family, decades
ago, and Archie Bunker comments on an election.
Been a long time, but his comment was some thing
like "Now, there's a balanced ticket. A wop, a
Jew, and a regular American."

As a group, Mexicans can be excellent roofers. More
so than eskimos, for example. I think the ethnicity
factor can be interesting to read.

BTW, do you support diversity?


Even though my original question was directed towards Ralph, I was polite
enough to answer your follow-up. Please return the favor and answer a
question from me:

Is there a reason you asked if I support diversity?

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 12:32:22 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
Hi Bob,

Live in Mass., so snow and ice in the winter is a big concern.
Will be having our roof shingles replaced.
It was suggested, strongly, that I insist on having them
use, also, a rubberized sheet layer called "Shield"
Questions:
a. What brands of this type of item are considered the "best" ?
b. How thick ?

I "think" Grace Ice and Water Shield was the original, but I would assume
most brands are similar. I used IKO brand on my roof as that's what my
shingle supplier stocked.

c. How far up the roof; e.g. 6 feet usually adequate ? The whole roof ?

The ice and water shield should extend from the lower edge of the roof to
a point that is 2-3 feet beyond the outside wall of the heated space.

Low slope roofs (less than 4/12 pitch) should be covered entirely with
the weather membrane.

It's also wise to install it in the roof valley's to seal up any nail
penetrations.

In cold climates, you should also use it along the edge of gable ends.


What's the point to using it along the gable ends in cold? I don't see
how ice damming, water backing up, can happen there. It also is only
needed at the lower roof edges in cold climates, where ice damming
can occur. In warmer climates, it's not needed at all.

On 4/19/2016 8:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:03:46 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
As a group, Mexicans can be excellent roofers. More
so than eskimos, for example. I think the ethnicity
factor can be interesting to read.

BTW, do you support diversity?


Even though my original question was directed towards Ralph, I was polite
enough to answer your follow-up. Please return the favor and answer a
question from me:

Is there a reason you asked if I support diversity?


Well, I might be just wanting to get to know
you better. OTOH, I may be baiting you into
a trap. Mostly curious if you're progressive,
or conservative.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:13:59 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/19/2016 8:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:03:46 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
As a group, Mexicans can be excellent roofers. More
so than eskimos, for example. I think the ethnicity
factor can be interesting to read.

BTW, do you support diversity?


Even though my original question was directed towards Ralph, I was polite
enough to answer your follow-up. Please return the favor and answer a
question from me:

Is there a reason you asked if I support diversity?


Well, I might be just wanting to get to know
you better. OTOH, I may be baiting you into
a trap. Mostly curious if you're progressive,
or conservative.


Why didn't you change the subject line?

On 4/19/2016 9:46 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 9:13:59 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
BTW, do you support diversity?


Even though my original question was directed towards Ralph, I was polite
enough to answer your follow-up. Please return the favor and answer a
question from me:

Is there a reason you asked if I support diversity?


Well, I might be just wanting to get to know
you better. OTOH, I may be baiting you into
a trap. Mostly curious if you're progressive,
or conservative.


Why didn't you change the subject line?


You know, I thought of that about a second
after I clicked send. Sorry about that.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

What's the point to using it along the gable ends in cold? I don't
see how ice damming, water backing up, can happen there.

I have no idea, but most membrane manufacturers recommend it:

https://www.iko.com/publication/stor...hure/wppa_open

http://tinyurl.com/hssmztf

http://tinyurl.com/hkbgu4r

http://tinyurl.com/z49p3zg

In a cold climate, I suppose you could get ice damming on the gable end
overhangs, and that water could make it's way sideways under the shingles.
Water has an amazing ability to get inside a home.

We live in a fairly warm climate and only have a 6" overhang on the gable
ends. So I did not use the membrane along my rake edges. If I had membrane
leftover I might have used it there, but I didn't want to buy a full roll
just to do those low risk edges.

It also is only needed at the lower roof edges in cold climates,
where ice damming can occur. In warmer climates, it's not needed at all.

In addition to guarding against ice damming, it also seals around nails
that penetrate the roof. That's why it's smart to use it places with high
water exposure, roof valley's, dormer or chimney intersections, etc.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

In article ,
says...

On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?

-


I mentioned Mexicans because they showed up on time and did a good job
of it. I believe in giving credit to the workers.

When my dad died I had a realitor sell the house. They asked me if it
made a difference to me about the people. I told them the only color I
was interisted in was green.

In article ,
says...

On 4/19/2016 6:52 AM, songbird wrote:

i think it would be a tough job to do that all season.
at least they didn't have to carry stuff up ladders. a
hi-low came with the truck and set the stuff right on
the roof.


songbird


I've carried shingles to a single story roof;
that's a lot of work, for sure.

You might have called the cops on that MJ smoker.
That's rather unsafe to be doing roof work while
stoned. Smoking is also unwise. Carbon monoxide,
and risk of starting a fire.

I felt sorry for the men that did my roof as they had to carry the
shingles up the ladders. The roof is about a 10/12 pitch. Think that
is what it is called. It is not a 45 deg angle, but close to it. I
thought they may fall off, but they did ot use any safety equipment.
Then did have a couple of ropes over the roof and I did see them gram
them a time or two when they had a buldle of shingles over their
sholder.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:37:08 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?

-


I mentioned Mexicans because they showed up on time and did a good job
of it.

I'll ask again: Is there a reason you mentioned that they were Mexican?

I believe in giving credit to the workers.

What difference does the nationality of the workers make? Were you giving
credit to the workers or to Mexicans? Were you surprised that a bunch of
Mexicans showed up on time and did a good job? I still don't see the reason
for mentioning their nationality.

Why didn't you just say:

"6 - 8 workers showed up on time and did a good job of it. I have to give them
credit."


When my dad died I had a realitor sell the house. They asked me if it
made a difference to me about the people. I told them the only color I
was interisted in was green.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:37:08 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?

-


I mentioned Mexicans because they showed up on time and did a good job
of it.

I'll ask again: Is there a reason you mentioned that they were Mexican?

I believe in giving credit to the workers.

What difference does the nationality of the workers make? Were you giving
credit to the workers or to Mexicans? Were you surprised that a bunch of
Mexicans showed up on time and did a good job? I still don't see the reason
for mentioning their nationality.


Well, I think it is a good idea to see what's going on around you.
With the huge influx of illegals here, some towns have gone from
hardly a Mexican in sight, to having a large population to the point
that you see mostly Mexicans walking the streets. If you
suddenly start seeing jobs that were done 20 years ago by workers
that were more representative of the general population, the citizens,
to one where they are almost all Mexicans, likely illegal, maybe it's
time to figure out that something is wrong, immigration laws aren't being enforced, etc. Isn't it reasonable to look at a Mexican roofing crew
and say, gee, those could be American workers? Twenty years ago, they
were American workers. And don't tell us that
it's not likely that the workers are illegal, with 11 to 30 mil here,
they are obviously working and we all know what's really going on.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:41:50 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 4/19/2016 6:52 AM, songbird wrote:

i think it would be a tough job to do that all season.
at least they didn't have to carry stuff up ladders. a
hi-low came with the truck and set the stuff right on
the roof.


songbird


I've carried shingles to a single story roof;
that's a lot of work, for sure.

You might have called the cops on that MJ smoker.
That's rather unsafe to be doing roof work while
stoned. Smoking is also unwise. Carbon monoxide,
and risk of starting a fire.

I felt sorry for the men that did my roof as they had to carry the
shingles up the ladders. The roof is about a 10/12 pitch. Think that
is what it is called. It is not a 45 deg angle, but close to it. I
thought they may fall off, but they did ot use any safety equipment.
Then did have a couple of ropes over the roof and I did see them gram
them a time or two when they had a buldle of shingles over their
sholder.

Must be working for a really cheap and dumb company. Around here they
typically use power lifts that work with a ladder and get the shingles up
there easily. The cost of that lift would quickly pay for itself in
productivity.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:22:51 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:37:08 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?

-


I mentioned Mexicans because they showed up on time and did a good job
of it.

I'll ask again: Is there a reason you mentioned that they were Mexican?

I believe in giving credit to the workers.

What difference does the nationality of the workers make? Were you giving
credit to the workers or to Mexicans? Were you surprised that a bunch of
Mexicans showed up on time and did a good job? I still don't see the reason
for mentioning their nationality.


Well, I think it is a good idea to see what's going on around you.
With the huge influx of illegals here, some towns have gone from
hardly a Mexican in sight, to having a large population to the point
that you see mostly Mexicans walking the streets. If you
suddenly start seeing jobs that were done 20 years ago by workers
that were more representative of the general population, the citizens,
to one where they are almost all Mexicans, likely illegal, maybe it's
time to figure out that something is wrong, immigration laws aren't being enforced, etc. Isn't it reasonable to look at a Mexican roofing crew
and say, gee, those could be American workers? Twenty years ago, they
were American workers. And don't tell us that
it's not likely that the workers are illegal, with 11 to 30 mil here,
they are obviously working and we all know what's really going on.

You are mixing up 2 totally different situations. AFAICT Ralph's comment had
nothing to do with illegal workers or American jobs being taken by immigrants
(legal or illegal) or him not being aware of what's going on around him.
He certainly didn't sound ****ed that the workers weren't American. In fact,
he noted he was pleased by their work ethic and the job that they did.

Nothing you say about our immigration laws is wrong but when someone does
something for you or you pay for a service do you say things like...?

"I was in a restaurant and a Polish waitress came to my table."
"My transmission went bad and a French guy fixed it."
"I was in the grocery store and the Italian lady rang up my items."

The subject of the thread was about different types of roofing materials.
Ralph mentioned Home Advisor, various quotes, length of warranties, types
of materials and, oh yeah, Mexicans.

The nationality of the workers is irrelevant to the subject being discussed,
as it usually is in cases like this.

if trump somehow deported all the illegals just ponder for a moment the disruption it would cause.

crops not harvested, roofs not done.

real americans will drive costs up exponentially. and building the wall?

mexico will never pay for it.......

trump will bankrupt america if elected

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 2:00:54 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 1:22:51 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 11:37:08 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 4/18/2016 8:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, April 18, 2016 at 6:46:37 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
About 6 or 8 Mexicans showed up at the day and time they were suspose to
and worked all day and seemed to do a good job. We have had lots of
wind and sofar no shingle has blown off.

Is there a reason you mention that they were Mexican?


Is there a reason you asked about the Mexicans?

-


I mentioned Mexicans because they showed up on time and did a good job
of it.

I'll ask again: Is there a reason you mentioned that they were Mexican?

I believe in giving credit to the workers.

What difference does the nationality of the workers make? Were you giving
credit to the workers or to Mexicans? Were you surprised that a bunch of
Mexicans showed up on time and did a good job? I still don't see the reason
for mentioning their nationality.


Well, I think it is a good idea to see what's going on around you.
With the huge influx of illegals here, some towns have gone from
hardly a Mexican in sight, to having a large population to the point
that you see mostly Mexicans walking the streets. If you
suddenly start seeing jobs that were done 20 years ago by workers
that were more representative of the general population, the citizens,
to one where they are almost all Mexicans, likely illegal, maybe it's
time to figure out that something is wrong, immigration laws aren't being enforced, etc. Isn't it reasonable to look at a Mexican roofing crew
and say, gee, those could be American workers? Twenty years ago, they
were American workers. And don't tell us that
it's not likely that the workers are illegal, with 11 to 30 mil here,
they are obviously working and we all know what's really going on.

You are mixing up 2 totally different situations. AFAICT Ralph's comment had
nothing to do with illegal workers or American jobs being taken by immigrants
(legal or illegal) or him not being aware of what's going on around him.
He certainly didn't sound ****ed that the workers weren't American. In fact,
he noted he was pleased by their work ethic and the job that they did.

Nothing you say about our immigration laws is wrong but when someone does
something for you or you pay for a service do you say things like...?

"I was in a restaurant and a Polish waitress came to my table."
"My transmission went bad and a French guy fixed it."
"I was in the grocery store and the Italian lady rang up my items."


Well, the first question would be was it a Polish restaurant? If
so they it's nothing worth noting. If it's not a Polish restaurant,
and all the workers are Polish, then sure, I'd notice it and might
include it in my remarks about my experience there. Currently,
AFAIK, we don't have a problem
with illegal Polish people or French people overrunning the country.
For example, that isn't a topic of the presidential campaign, is it?
But Mexican illegals, how they are taking jobs, what to do about
it is very much a hot topic. So, I don't see anything wrong with
saying that the roofing crew was Mexican.



The subject of the thread was about different types of roofing materials.
Ralph mentioned Home Advisor, various quotes, length of warranties, types
of materials and, oh yeah, Mexicans.

The nationality of the workers is irrelevant to the subject being discussed,
as it usually is in cases like this.

So comments not directly relevant to the subject aren't allowed?
That would reduce what gets posted here by 90%.

On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 3:24:44 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if trump somehow deported all the illegals just ponder for a moment the disruption it would cause.

crops not harvested, roofs not done.

real americans will drive costs up exponentially. and building the wall?

mexico will never pay for it.......

trump will bankrupt america if elected

It would be a huge disruption for sure if it was done in Trump's stated
one or two year time frame. Even if done longer, without a guest worker
program or similar, I agree there would be a lot of problems. But don't
worry about it happening. Trump is blowing a lot of smoke up the asses
of the Trumpies. He knows it will never happen and he would quickly
compromise on it. He's already doing that, now saying that it's
negotiable. Apparently he said a lot more to the NY Times a couple months
ago, which is why he won't allow the transcript of that interview to be
released. This problem is fixable, without smearing Mexicans as a bunch
of rapists and similar rhetoric. But Trump has a scorched earth policy
and he doesn't care about Mexicans, you, me or anyone but himself.