A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

€œIn the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesnt take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.€�

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it wont save any money on the gas bill?

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

“In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn’t take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.”

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won’t save any money on the gas bill?
Correct You make the furnace work harder and less efficiently by
closing off the ducts unless your furnace is undersized for the home
(which is EXTREMELY rare. Most furnaces are at least 50% oversized

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:13:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?


Correct You make the furnace work harder and less efficiently by
closing off the ducts unless your furnace is undersized for the home
(which is EXTREMELY rare. Most furnaces are at least 50% oversized

Wrong. There is no such thing as "working harder". If you have a couple
rooms that are unoccupied and you close them off and close off the heating
vents, you will burn less fuel, because you're heating less space. And if
you have leaky ducts, they need to be fixed. In extreme cases, if you
closed off a lot of vents then you could have problems, more likely with ]
AC than with heating. I have two rooms cut off that way, heating system
works fine.

On 1/27/2016 7:13 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

“In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn’t take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.”

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won’t save any money on the gas bill?
Correct You make the furnace work harder and less efficiently by
closing off the ducts unless your furnace is undersized for the home
(which is EXTREMELY rare. Most furnaces are at least 50% oversized



While I agree that closing off ductwork will increase the back pressure
and cause "leakage" (unless the installer was absolutely anal about
sealing all seams and joints with metal tape, etc) the only downside
that I visualize is that the blower motor will have to work harder.

Let's look at an average home of ~1500 sq feet with 3 bedrooms and the
thermostat for the FANG system centrally located in, say, the living
room or central hallway.

We close off all three BR vents directing the total output of the
furnace to the Kitchen, LR, Dining Room, Hall and Baths. Seems to me
that its going to more quickly bring the area where the thermostat is
located up to temperature and then shut down. This, I think, would be
especially true if the BR doors were also closed during this period.

Giant savings? Likely not, but if you're not heating a third (?) or
half (?) the house, how can there not be some savings realized?

It's not that unusual to adjust temps differently in different areas.
In our case, we have a combo of electric baseboard heat and ducted
central air. We built in 1974 and, believe it or not, the next time the
heat is turned on our bedroom will be the first time (other than an
initial test to ensure it was properly wired and working). We like it
cold for sleeping. Winter time it's rarely above 55 degrees in there
provided we don't close the bedroom door.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:13:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?
Correct You make the furnace work harder and less efficiently by
closing off the ducts unless your furnace is undersized for the home
(which is EXTREMELY rare. Most furnaces are at least 50% oversized

The question though is whether the blower motor is oversized.

I'm more familiar with commercial than residential. In commercial, vents are often adjusted to balance air flow to the different areas. Some might be fully open but most probably partial. Of course in commercial the blower is usually adjustable too.

At any rate, I'm not so sure closing a few vents adds enough restriction to the system to affect airflow. A dirty filter blocks the only place air should be going through, but the supply has lots of outlets. Unless the blower is barely keeping up, closing a few vents probably just slightly increases flow in the others, and the thermostat maybe satisfies faster.

In the rooms you are not heating, the temperature differential between outside and in will be smaller, so you will lose less heat overall.

On 1/27/2016 8:06 AM, Arnie Goetchius wrote:

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it wont save any money on the gas bill?


Colder rooms means less heat loss. Which means
money savings on heat.

That's my simple minded view.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/27/2016 8:13 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won’t save any money on the gas bill?
Correct You make the furnace work harder and less efficiently by
closing off the ducts unless your furnace is undersized for the home
(which is EXTREMELY rare. Most furnaces are at least 50% oversized


So, if the air leaking out of the back bedroom is
colder since the vent is closed, you still need to
put the same ammount of heat into the house?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 7:50:07 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

So, if the air leaking out of the back bedroom is
colder since the vent is closed, you still need to
put the same ammount of heat into the house?

If the heat vent is closed and the cold air return is not blocked...there will be negative air pressure in that room that will draw in some warm air. How much would be the question...

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

€œIn the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesnt take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.€�

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it wont save any money on the gas bill?

It'll save money. The contractor is selling a mini-split system.
Don't be fooled.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:57:51 AM UTC-5, bob_villain wrote:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 7:50:07 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

So, if the air leaking out of the back bedroom is
colder since the vent is closed, you still need to
put the same ammount of heat into the house?

If the heat vent is closed and the cold air return is not blocked...there will be negative air pressure in that room that will draw in some warm air. How much would be the question...

I think that the comment related to the cold air return is key. If the cold
air return is not blocked, then the cold air from that room will lower the
overall return air, requiring the furnace to heat it back up. It will also
cause warm air from the rest of the house to be drawn in under the door,
assuming that is the largest "leak" into the room.

In the one room that I have closed off, I also crafted cold air return covers
from foam pads and then placed a heavy box in front to hold it in place. This
allows me easily remove the vent covers when I want to heat the room. The room
is above an unheated garage and gets pretty cold. I wouldn't want all that
cold air sucked back into the furnace.

http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece...set-94635.html

(I love those pads. My list of uses for them just keeps growing and growing.)

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:06:27 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?

As others have said, you can save money by closing of a room or two. However,
if you close the output vents, you should also block the cold air return.

If the cold air return is not blocked, then the cold air from that room
will lower the overall return air, requiring the furnace to heat it back
up. It will also cause warm air from the rest of the house to be drawn
in under the door, assuming that is the largest "leak" into the room. If
it doesn't come in under the door, it's going to come in from someplace,
which might be from the outside.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

“In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating

No. It restricts airflow to some rooms but not to others. That is
different. Here's a hint, Any time *any* one uses the adverb
"simply", he's probably trying to buffalo you. Either he doesn't
understand himself or he's trying to trick you. It took reading
thousands of usenet posts to notiice this fact.

The things that are really simple you generally don't need to have
explained to you and when you hear a simple explanation, it is
obviously true on its face. When people say "simply" (and a synonym
I forget) they are almost never talking about something simple.

systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting

Hopefully, they have been sized accordingly.

off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

If there is already leakage, an increase in pressure of 20% would
increase leakage by 20%. That's still only a little bit in most
cases.

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn’t take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.”

Yeah, but to do all that you have to buy whole new systems, his
plural, not mine. That many more electroniccs and pressure systems
to go bad. IIUC, the labor to replace a condensor etc. for a small
system is as much or almost as much as for a whole-house system, and
with 2 or 3 (or 4) systems, after the first few years, something will
be breaking all the time.

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won’t save any money on the gas bill?

I think it will save money, especially if those rooms have outside
walls, as I'm sure the bedrooms do. More later.

On 1/27/2016 10:23 AM, Micky wrote:
Here's a hint, Any time *any* one uses the adverb
"simply", he's probably trying to buffalo you. Either he doesn't
understand himself or he's trying to trick you. It took reading
thousands of usenet posts to notiice this fact.

The things that are really simple you generally don't need to have
explained to you and when you hear a simple explanation, it is
obviously true on its face. When people say "simply" (and a synonym
I forget) they are almost never talking about something simple.


You know, I'd never really put the thought into
words, but this sure does make sense. I'll let
you know if I pick up on the synonym for simply.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

€œIn the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesnt take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.€�

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it wont save any money on the gas bill?


Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to block off the
returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic Vent Cover" here that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 10:52:15 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?


Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to block off the
returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic Vent Cover" here that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

I bought one of those and it was totally worthless. The magnet is so
weak, the cover heavy, that it won't hold on.

On 1/27/2016 9:48 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/27/2016 10:23 AM, Micky wrote:
Here's a hint, Any time *any* one uses the adverb
"simply", he's probably trying to buffalo you. Either he doesn't
understand himself or he's trying to trick you. It took reading
thousands of usenet posts to notiice this fact.

The things that are really simple you generally don't need to have
explained to you and when you hear a simple explanation, it is
obviously true on its face. When people say "simply" (and a synonym
I forget) they are almost never talking about something simple.


You know, I'd never really put the thought into
words, but this sure does make sense. I'll let
you know if I pick up on the synonym for simply.



That's simple. Bull****!

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 10:52:15 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?


Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to block off the
returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic Vent Cover" here that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

Do you actually have returns in all rooms? I don't, I have one return in the hallway, and the room doors are undercut to allow air return.

If you do, where is your return filter?

At any rate, it doesn't really matter.

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the supply ducts closed.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/27/2016 8:13 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:06:30 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an
unused bathroom a bad idea and it won’t save any money on the gas
bill?
Correct You make the furnace work harder and less efficiently by
closing off the ducts unless your furnace is undersized for the home
(which is EXTREMELY rare. Most furnaces are at least 50% oversized


So, if the air leaking out of the back bedroom is
colder since the vent is closed, you still need to
put the same ammount of heat into the house?

Since the air leaking out is colder, it contains less heat energy. The rate it
escapes through the outside insulation will also be lower because the
temperature difference is less. If the inside walls between the heated and
unheated areas were insulated, the losses would be substantially lower, and the
unheated room would be colder. Condensation will likely increase on the windows
in unheated rooms.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:06:27 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system,
closing off vents has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It
simply restricts airflow. Heating systems are designed to heat the
whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting off a section of
airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn increasing
the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in
unused rooms is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split
systems that are mounted on the wall and wired using a simple wiring
process to an outdoor unit. No ducts are used so installation
doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and cooling mini
split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an
unused bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas
bill?

As others have said, you can save money by closing of a room or two.
However, if you close the output vents, you should also block the
cold air return.

If the cold air return is not blocked, then the cold air from that
room
will lower the overall return air, requiring the furnace to heat it
back
up. It will also cause warm air from the rest of the house to be drawn
in under the door, assuming that is the largest "leak" into the room.
If
it doesn't come in under the door, it's going to come in from
someplace, which might be from the outside.

In any case, if the room is cooler after closing vents, heat loss will be
reduced.

trader_4 wrote:
Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to
block off the returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic
Vent Cover" here that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

I bought one of those and it was totally worthless. The magnet is so
weak, the cover heavy, that it won't hold on.

If the vent is on the floor, some soft foam or even a folded towel would work,
with a board or couple books on it. On the wall, plastic sheet and a few magnets
would work fine for a return vent, since the negative air pressure of the return
will "suck" it into place when the fan runs. Make the plastic a little bigger
than the vent, ant it will seal against the wall too if there is leakage under
the vent..

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 11:32:10 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 10:52:15 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?


Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to block off the
returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic Vent Cover" here that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

Do you actually have returns in all rooms? I don't, I have one return in the hallway, and the room doors are undercut to allow air return.

If you do, where is your return filter?

At any rate, it doesn't really matter.

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 11:32:10 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 10:52:15 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:
Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system,
closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts
airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized
accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in
turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in
unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that
are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor
unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless
heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an
unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?


Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to
block off the
returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic Vent Cover" here
that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

Do you actually have returns in all rooms? I don't, I have one return in
the hallway, and the room doors are undercut to allow air return.

If you do, where is your return filter?

At any rate, it doesn't really matter.

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is
heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the
supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family
room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

you have REGISTERS in each room.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 11:44:09 AM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
trader_4 wrote:
Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to
block off the returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic
Vent Cover" here that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

I bought one of those and it was totally worthless. The magnet is so
weak, the cover heavy, that it won't hold on.

If the vent is on the floor, some soft foam or even a folded towel would work,
with a board or couple books on it. On the wall, plastic sheet and a few magnets
would work fine for a return vent, since the negative air pressure of the return
will "suck" it into place when the fan runs. Make the plastic a little bigger
than the vent, ant it will seal against the wall too if there is leakage under
the vent..

My returns are on the wall and the grille is "thick" enough that the face is
flush with the face of the baseboard.

I cut a cover from those grey anti-fatigue floor mats from HF.

I cut a rectangle that is about a 1/2" larger than the face of the grille
and then attached thin strips of pad to seal the area above the baseboard.

I put a heavy box against the cover to hold it tight against the grille
and wall.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:34:09 PM UTC-5, taxed and spent wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 11:32:10 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 10:52:15 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:
Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system,
closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts
airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized
accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in
turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in
unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that
are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor
unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless
heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an
unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?


Thanks for all of your comments. It looks like the next step is to
block off the
returns in the unheated rooms. I found a "Magnetic Vent Cover" here
that I will try:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_73204-34146-...d=3260659&pl=1

Do you actually have returns in all rooms? I don't, I have one return in
the hallway, and the room doors are undercut to allow air return.

If you do, where is your return filter?

At any rate, it doesn't really matter.

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is
heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the
supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family
room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

you have REGISTERS in each room.

Not true.

"taxed and spent" writes:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is
heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the
supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family
room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

you have REGISTERS in each room.

Actually, I suspect he really does have returns in each room. That's quite
common[*]. I've lived in several houses that have a register and a return in
each room, generally on the opposite side of the room with the register low
and the return high on the wall.
[*] To ensure proper airflow when the door is closed.

"Arnie Goetchius" wrote in message ...

A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

€œIn the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off
vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow.
Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly.
Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused
rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are
mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No
ducts
are used so installation doesnt take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution.€�

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it wont save any money on the gas bill?

The way that I look at is this way--Heating systems use a centrifugal fan
(and when up to speed) runs at constant speed. It has a characteristic
operating curve of delta P (pressure rise) vs air flow and as the air flow
demand increases there is a slight drop (called Droop) in Delta P. The
change in fan pressure usually is not very significant unless the flow
demand is very high (very low system resistance). The duct work also has a
system characteristic of Pressure Drop vs air flow. Plot the two operating
systems (fan and ductwork) on the same curve and where they intersect is the
system operating point--a fan pressure rise and flow.. Change the system
resistance (close of some of the vents for example) and you will get a new
operating point because the duct work characteristics have changed. Same
fan speed but at a slightly different (higher) Delta P and at some reduced
air flow. Unless the system changes are extreme, I don't see any
significant operating or system problems. I don't think that closing off a
few registers can be considered extreme.
MLD


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
"taxed and spent" writes:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is
heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the
supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family
room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

you have REGISTERS in each room.

Actually, I suspect he really does have returns in each room. That's quite
common[*]. I've lived in several houses that have a register and a return in
each room, generally on the opposite side of the room with the register low
and the return high on the wall.

[*] To ensure proper airflow when the door is closed.

I don't know why you would suspect that. I already posted the list of
specific rooms that have returns.

You don't typically see returns in bathrooms, kitchens or basements.

On 1/27/2016 9:16 AM, Vic Smith wrote:


It'll save money. The contractor is selling a mini-split system.
Don't be fooled.


But I can save $20 a year if I buy a $2000 mini-split. And more
important, Al Gore will have more fuel for his private jet.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 11:23:37 AM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

Our house is the same as yours!

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:48:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/27/2016 10:23 AM, Micky wrote:
Here's a hint, Any time *any* one uses the adverb
"simply", he's probably trying to buffalo you. Either he doesn't
understand himself or he's trying to trick you. It took reading
thousands of usenet posts to notiice this fact.

The things that are really simple you generally don't need to have
explained to you and when you hear a simple explanation, it is
obviously true on its face. When people say "simply" (and a synonym
I forget) they are almost never talking about something simple.


You know, I'd never really put the thought into
words, but this sure does make sense. I'll let
you know if I pick up on the synonym for simply.

There was one particular guy in one particular newsgroup who was
always proclaiming false things, and he always used the word "simply".
But after I noticed it with him, I saw the same thing with others,
even if not as often.

DerbyDad03 writes:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
"taxed and spent" writes:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is
heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the
supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family
room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

you have REGISTERS in each room.

Actually, I suspect he really does have returns in each room. That's quite
common[*]. I've lived in several houses that have a register and a return in
each room, generally on the opposite side of the room with the register low
and the return high on the wall.

[*] To ensure proper airflow when the door is closed.

I don't know why you would suspect that. I already posted the list of
specific rooms that have returns.

I was responding, obviously from the quotes, to the soi disant "taxed and spent"
who "corrected" you, incorrectly.


You don't typically see returns in bathrooms, kitchens or basements.

Typically? I've seen more than one house where the basement _was_
the return (the returns in the main floor were simply open to the
basement).

Bathrooms have, by code, exhaust vents.

Kitchens seldom have doors.

On 1/27/2016 1:51 PM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:48:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
obviously true on its face. When people say "simply" (and a synonym
I forget) they are almost never talking about something simple.


You know, I'd never really put the thought into
words, but this sure does make sense. I'll let
you know if I pick up on the synonym for simply.

There was one particular guy in one particular newsgroup who was
always proclaiming false things, and he always used the word "simply".
But after I noticed it with him, I saw the same thing with others,
even if not as often.


Hmm. That's simply a great thing to notice.

Ha, ha. Not funny, Chris. On the same vein, a
man who says "you can trust me" isn't to be
trusted. DAMHIKT. Honestly, that's what I find.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 8:06:27 AM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius wrote:


My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?

I didn't read this carefully enough the first time.

You have a furnace and gas heat. There might be places where a split system can heat for cheaper than gas, but not where I am nor any place I've lived.

I now see why you have more returns than I expected.

Yes, closing the ducts will save you money even if you don't block the returns. I'm assuming you close the door to those rooms. With no supply going into closed rooms, there's no pressure driving air into the returns. There probably is slight vacuum in those return ducts but they're sucking on a closed room, and there are lots of other return ducts getting plenty of air.. You could check this with a little smoke, I bet you'd find the returns in the rooms you are using draw much more air.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 7:06:27 AM UTC-6, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
A local Plumbing contractor says the following:

"In the case of a central heating and air conditioning system, closing off vents
has the same effect as a dirty air filter. It simply restricts airflow. Heating
systems are designed to heat the whole home and are sized accordingly. Shutting
off a section of airflow increases the air pressure in the system, in turn
increasing the amount of duct work leakage."

"A more energy efficient way to control individual temperatures in unused rooms
is by using a ductless heating and cooling mini split systems that are mounted
on the wall and wired using a simple wiring process to an outdoor unit. No ducts
are used so installation doesn't take much time at all. Ductless heating and
cooling mini split systems are a flexible solution."

My question: Is closing the ducts to three unused bedrooms and an unused
bathroom a bad idea and it won't save any money on the gas bill?

Closing too many vents when the AC is running can cause the evaporator to freeze up due to the reduced air flow and block the air flow completely the same as a clogged air filter. Closing too many vents when the heat is running can cause overheating of the combustion chamber in a gas furnace and trigger a safety lockout. It probably wouldn't bother a heat pump too much in heat mode because of the control provided by the expansion valve but in AC mode the evaporator can still freeze up due to reduced air flow. With electric resistance heating on a central air handler, it depends on the control system and safeties which can be either the auto reset or lockout type. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle HVAC Monster

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:59:22 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/27/2016 1:51 PM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:48:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
obviously true on its face. When people say "simply" (and a synonym
I forget) they are almost never talking about something simple.


You know, I'd never really put the thought into
words, but this sure does make sense. I'll let
you know if I pick up on the synonym for simply.

There was one particular guy in one particular newsgroup who was
always proclaiming false things, and he always used the word "simply".
But after I noticed it with him, I saw the same thing with others,
even if not as often.


Hmm. That's simply a great thing to notice.

Ha, ha. Not funny, Chris. On the same vein, a
man who says "you can trust me" isn't to be
trusted. DAMHIKT. Honestly, that's what I find.

I think you're right.

Not too many people have said that to me, and few on Usenet!

"Micky" wrote in message

stuff snipped

No. It restricts airflow to some rooms but not to others. That is
different. Here's a hint, Any time *any* one uses the adverb
"simply", he's probably trying to buffalo you.

That's "basically" true. (-: (the other weasel word I know of)

--
Bobby G.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 2:23:53 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
DerbyDad03 writes:
On Wednesday, January 27, 2016 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
"taxed and spent" writes:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

The heat loss in that room is less when the room is cold than when it is
heated. So the return air you pull back has lost less heat with the
supply ducts closed.

I have returns in all bedrooms, 2 in the living room and 1 in the family
room.

The filter is "in" the furnace, right at the main return trunk where all
returns meet.

you have REGISTERS in each room.

Actually, I suspect he really does have returns in each room. That's quite
common[*]. I've lived in several houses that have a register and a return in
each room, generally on the opposite side of the room with the register low
and the return high on the wall.

[*] To ensure proper airflow when the door is closed.

I don't know why you would suspect that. I already posted the list of
specific rooms that have returns.

I was responding, obviously from the quotes, to the soi disant "taxed and spent"
who "corrected" you, incorrectly.


You don't typically see returns in bathrooms, kitchens or basements.

Typically? I've seen more than one house where the basement _was_
the return (the returns in the main floor were simply open to the
basement).


Typically, as in "generally or normally". Would you say you have seen
more houses "where the basement _was_ the return" or more houses where
the returns are part of a ducted system?

BTW...in my house, the first floor return "ducts" are the basement
joist bays which are covered with sheet metal and taped along the edges.
If I were remove the sheet metal, then my main floor ducts would indeed
be open to the basement.

I wonder...was my house "upgraded" from open returns or were the "more
than one house" that you have seen downgraded by having the sheet metal
removed? Curious.

Bathrooms have, by code, exhaust vents.

Kitchens seldom have doors.

My comment was based on *your* comment "I suspect he does have returns
in each room". "Each", at least to me, mean "all".

On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:23:05 -0500, Micky
wrote:


I think it will save money, especially if those rooms have outside
walls, as I'm sure the bedrooms do. More later.

Of course you have to close the doors to those rooms, and I noticed a
lot of coldness at the crack at the bottom of the door, so you
probably should put a rolled up towel at the open crack.

On 1/27/2016 6:48 PM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:23:05 -0500, Micky
wrote:


I think it will save money, especially if those rooms have outside
walls, as I'm sure the bedrooms do. More later.

Of course you have to close the doors to those rooms, and I noticed a
lot of coldness at the crack at the bottom of the door, so you
probably should put a rolled up towel at the open crack.

What if you just MEASURE it?

I monitor my furnace run-time and graph it in real time.
I can tell from the graph when I turned on my computer and
added another 200W of heat.

I don't remember the numbers, but I did the experiment and
determined that closing off the vents and closing the doors
made significant reduction in gas consumption.

BUT!!!
My house is tight...tighter than the minimum standards for
air changes/hour according to the guy with the blower door.
If you've got leaks, it's hard to predict, but you can
measure it.

On Thursday, January 28, 2016 at 3:08:12 AM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 1/27/2016 6:48 PM, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:23:05 -0500, Micky
wrote:


I think it will save money, especially if those rooms have outside
walls, as I'm sure the bedrooms do. More later.

Of course you have to close the doors to those rooms, and I noticed a
lot of coldness at the crack at the bottom of the door, so you
probably should put a rolled up towel at the open crack.

What if you just MEASURE it?

I monitor my furnace run-time and graph it in real time.
I can tell from the graph when I turned on my computer and
added another 200W of heat.

I don't remember the numbers, but I did the experiment and
determined that closing off the vents and closing the doors
made significant reduction in gas consumption.

BUT!!!
My house is tight...tighter than the minimum standards for
air changes/hour according to the guy with the blower door.
If you've got leaks, it's hard to predict, but you can
measure it.

If you have a house with more air leakage to the outside,
closing off vents is going to work the same way. In fact,
because you'd be burning more gas in a leaky house, the
savings would be even more than in a very tight house.