My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 9:49:56 AM UTC-6, badgolferman wrote:
My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

Most likely the same circuit, but not necessarily. Use a non-contact voltage tester on the hot wire of the suspect switch.

On 1/11/2016 10:49 AM, badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?


You have the right idea to follow it back till you
find power, then work forward.

Might be same or different circuits. The "voltage
detector" gadgets can be helpful.

Also check the fuses. Or breakers.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:49:56 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:


I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.

That's what I would do.

But I would check something that I know has power - an outlet that works, for example - to be sure the meter you are using reads correctly. I'm assuming you are using some kind of multimeter, probably one of the inexpensive digital ones. That should work fine for your purpose, but make sure that it works and is set correctly (you want AC voltage, not one of the other choices).

I would check from hot to neutral and hot to ground, even if I had to use a jumper cable to reach a ground.

"badgolferman" writes:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

No.

What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

Hire an electrician.

On 01/11/2016 10:01 AM, bob_villain wrote:
On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 9:49:56 AM UTC-6, badgolferman wrote:
My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

Most likely the same circuit, but not necessarily. Use a non-contact voltage tester on the hot wire of the suspect switch.




Yep


may be as simple as a bad switch or a wire off

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/11/2016 10:49 AM, badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?


You have the right idea to follow it back till you
find power, then work forward.

Might be same or different circuits. The "voltage
detector" gadgets can be helpful.

Also check the fuses. Or breakers.

First question, Was that outside light working? Or just quit working?
Inside light works? Using DVM or an old analog meter like Simpson 260?
Have any test light?

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
news
"badgolferman" writes:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

No.

What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

Hire an electrician.

As much as I hate to say it, I agree. When someone has to ask a question on
simple wiring of one switch it is time to hire an electrician.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
news
"badgolferman" writes:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

No.

What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

Hire an electrician.

As much as I hate to say it, I agree. When someone has to ask a question on
simple wiring of one switch it is time to hire an electrician.


B4 he gets zapped?!

On 1/11/2016 12:03 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

Hire an electrician.

As much as I hate to say it, I agree. When someone has to ask a question on
simple wiring of one switch it is time to hire an electrician.


Typically, people who CAN do the task just go
ahead, and don't post about it, here.

I cater to the middle range posters, who
know some, but need a few ideas.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/11/2016 8:49 AM, badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.

Did it *ever* work?

My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

The lights INSIDE the garage work?

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next

It, presumably, is for *an* outside light. Are you sure that
there aren't any other switches that also might control that
light? (e.g., is it a "three-way" switch, perhaps miswired or
with one of its "associates" in a "middle" position)

The switch can also be broken. I've seen a fair number of the "Decora"
style switches break (flimsy plastic) over the years.

step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

Probably, but that's not guaranteed. Are all of the breakers 'on'
(none tripped or 'off')?

What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

With anything electrical, it goes without saying that you should
be thinking long and hard about whether or not you feel qualified
to do this "to save a few bucks". It only takes an ohnosecond to
stop a heart...

You can start by removing the switch plate and *looking* to see
what is visible (hands in pockets). The sides of the switches
should be visible so you can see if there are loose connections
(unless they've been wrapped in tape).

You can carefully remove each switch -- taking care not to
nudge the adjacent switch or its yolk (which could draw an arc).
From there, *count* the number of wires entering the Jbox
and make a drawing of any wirenuts/connections so you can
determine if the box is fed power.

Note that you may *not* have a neutral present in the box
against which to measure the available potential on the "hot".
Hopefully, you'll have a "ground" to act as a reference.

If the jamoke who preceded you was another DIY'er, there's
no telling what you'll find. So, you can't even assume that
what you see is wired correctly.

[Hence the suggestion to look for "qualified help"]

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:49:49 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

Probably, but why think about things like this? You'll find out when
you find out and the procedure is the same either way. Check for
voltage wrt ground at both sides of the non-useful switch. When you
find that one screw is hot, check for voltage on the other side when
the switch is in the ON position. If one side has 120 and the other
side has little or nothing, the switch is bad.

If neither side of that switch has voltage but the other switch does,
as it must if it's controlling a light, well, that's not likely to be
the case.


What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:49:49 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

The house I lived in in JHS and HS had a switch that did nothing. It
was intended for light at the foot of the driveway, that no one had
installed yet. I wanted to put it in, but the wires were either in
the always wet, always muddy crawlspace (20 feet or more from the
trapdoor entrance) or under the floor in the attic.

Plus I don't think my mother would have let me dig up the lawn. We
really didn't need a light. I just wanted one because others had it.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/11/2016 10:49 AM, badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't
work. My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light.
There is a light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall
that has two switches, one for the lights inside the garage and
one presumably for the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but
don't see any voltage there no matter what position the switch is
in. My next step is to take the switch plate apart and check for
voltage there. Would I be right to assume both switches should
be on the same circuit? What other troubleshooting tips do you
have?


You have the right idea to follow it back till you
find power, then work forward.

Might be same or different circuits. The "voltage
detector" gadgets can be helpful.

Also check the fuses. Or breakers.

First question, Was that outside light working? Or just quit working?
Inside light works? Using DVM or an old analog meter like Simpson
260? Have any test light?

I think it worked at one time. Can't remember for sure.

One inside switch is a three-way switch for my inside garage lights and
it's seldom used because it's on the garage door side. The other one
on the wall plate is for the outside light above the garage door that
isn't working now.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 11:27:00 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/11/2016 8:49 AM, badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.

Did it *ever* work?

My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

The lights INSIDE the garage work?

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next

It, presumably, is for *an* outside light. Are you sure that
there aren't any other switches that also might control that
light? (e.g., is it a "three-way" switch, perhaps miswired or
with one of its "associates" in a "middle" position)

The switch can also be broken. I've seen a fair number of the "Decora"
style switches break (flimsy plastic) over the years.

step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

Probably, but that's not guaranteed. Are all of the breakers 'on'
(none tripped or 'off')?

What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

With anything electrical, it goes without saying that you should
be thinking long and hard about whether or not you feel qualified
to do this "to save a few bucks". It only takes an ohnosecond to
stop a heart...

You can start by removing the switch plate and *looking* to see
what is visible (hands in pockets). The sides of the switches
should be visible so you can see if there are loose connections
(unless they've been wrapped in tape).

You can carefully remove each switch -- taking care not to
nudge the adjacent switch or its yolk (which could draw an arc).
From there, *count* the number of wires entering the Jbox
and make a drawing of any wirenuts/connections so you can
determine if the box is fed power.

Note that you may *not* have a neutral present in the box
against which to measure the available potential on the "hot".
Hopefully, you'll have a "ground" to act as a reference.

If the jamoke who preceded you was another DIY'er, there's
no telling what you'll find. So, you can't even assume that
what you see is wired correctly.

[Hence the suggestion to look for "qualified help"]


If the guy doesn't know how to check the circuit and wants to play
with it anyway, the FIRST thing he needs to do is shut off power to
the circuit - at the breaker - and then CONFIRM it is off. After
confirming power is off, remove the switch - (assuming it is still
live) then double-ensure the power is off. Then check for bad
connections, and check the switch with ohm-meter.

If he doesn't know how to do this - CALL AN ELECTRICIAN.

Better that than the MORTICIAN.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 13:30:51 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:49:49 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

Probably, but why think about things like this? You'll find out when
you find out and the procedure is the same either way. Check for
voltage wrt ground at both sides of the non-useful switch. When you
find that one screw is hot, check for voltage on the other side when
the switch is in the ON position. If one side has 120 and the other
side has little or nothing, the switch is bad.

If neither side of that switch has voltage but the other switch does,
as it must if it's controlling a light, well, that's not likely to be
the case.


What other troubleshooting tips do you have?
If the switch is a "drop" switch and the bulb is dead or a wire is
off at the light, or something else is wrong in the fixture, there
WILL be no power at the switch. - but there would be power at the
light...

On 1/11/2016 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 11:27:00 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/11/2016 8:49 AM, badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.

Did it *ever* work?

My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

The lights INSIDE the garage work?

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next

It, presumably, is for *an* outside light. Are you sure that
there aren't any other switches that also might control that
light? (e.g., is it a "three-way" switch, perhaps miswired or
with one of its "associates" in a "middle" position)

The switch can also be broken. I've seen a fair number of the "Decora"
style switches break (flimsy plastic) over the years.

step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?

Probably, but that's not guaranteed. Are all of the breakers 'on'
(none tripped or 'off')?

What other troubleshooting tips do you have?

With anything electrical, it goes without saying that you should
be thinking long and hard about whether or not you feel qualified
to do this "to save a few bucks". It only takes an ohnosecond to
stop a heart...

You can start by removing the switch plate and *looking* to see
what is visible (hands in pockets). The sides of the switches
should be visible so you can see if there are loose connections
(unless they've been wrapped in tape).

You can carefully remove each switch -- taking care not to
nudge the adjacent switch or its yolk (which could draw an arc).
From there, *count* the number of wires entering the Jbox
and make a drawing of any wirenuts/connections so you can
determine if the box is fed power.

Note that you may *not* have a neutral present in the box
against which to measure the available potential on the "hot".
Hopefully, you'll have a "ground" to act as a reference.

If the jamoke who preceded you was another DIY'er, there's
no telling what you'll find. So, you can't even assume that
what you see is wired correctly.

[Hence the suggestion to look for "qualified help"]

If the guy doesn't know how to check the circuit and wants to play
with it anyway, the FIRST thing he needs to do is shut off power to
the circuit - at the breaker - and then CONFIRM it is off. After

That's not practical.

He (admittedly) doesn't know which circuit is involved. He
can't verify power is removed -- unless he can gain access to
the switch contacts (so, he has to be able to extract the
switches from the Jbox to make those contacts accessible -- BEFORE
he KNOWS power is "off"!)

Also, as he has no signs of power REGARDLESS OF THE POSITION OF
THE SWITCH, he has no way of confirming that he has *cut* power
to that circuit -- unless he trips the main for the entire house.

Hence the advice "(hands in pockets)".

You can do a lot of troubleshooting with just your eyes -- given
that the circuit appears "dead" (at the load).

Removing a switch from a box is also relatively low risk -- as
long as you hold onto the yoke and don't fall for the temptation
to grab the body of the switch between your fingers. If you pull
it straight out, it will also tend to easily go straight *back*
in (the wire dressing acting like an accordion).

confirming power is off, remove the switch - (assuming it is still
live) then double-ensure the power is off. Then check for bad
connections, and check the switch with ohm-meter.

No need to "ohm" the switch. Look for line voltage on either side
of it. If present on one side and not the other, switch is bad
(after exercising the switch into both positions).

If present on neither side, problem lies elsewhere.


If he doesn't know how to do this - CALL AN ELECTRICIAN.

Better that than the MORTICIAN.

badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?


No big deal to the whole thing. I pulled out the switch and saw one of the
wires loose. I put it back on properly and everything checked good.

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 21:10:53 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman
wrote:

badgolferman wrote:
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.
My goal is to replace it with an automatic flood light. There is a
light switch plate inside the garage on the same wall that has two
switches, one for the lights inside the garage and one presumably for
the outside one.

I have taken the light fixture off and checked the wires but don't see
any voltage there no matter what position the switch is in. My next
step is to take the switch plate apart and check for voltage there.
Would I be right to assume both switches should be on the same circuit?
What other troubleshooting tips do you have?


No big deal to the whole thing. I pulled out the switch and saw one of the
wires loose. I put it back on properly and everything checked good.

Great. Thanks for getting back to us. I wonder who put it on so that
it could come loose. That should never happen.

"badgolferman" wrote in message
...
My house has an outside light over the garage door which doesn't work.

Outside sockets get corroded. Have you looked into the socket to determine
its condition? It's also easy to think there's no current at the socket
because the meter probes often don't make good contact because of the
corrosion. Switches along walls that have a temperature/humidity
differential (mostly outside walls) are also subject to corrosion from
condensation. I've had the back stabs on an outside wall kitchen fail from
what seemed to be corrosion from condensation cycles.

Another thing I've seen in cases like yours is that a junction box or
upstream outlet got rerouted or disconnected.

You definitely need at least a pencil-style non-contact current indicator to
futz around with outside stuff because the corrosion can otherwise fool you
into thinking the line's deactivated.

I'd also get a fox/hound wire tracing set. That would allow you to trace
the wire back and perhaps discover where it's become disconnected.
Coincidentally the bedroom and bathhroom lost power over night. The
breakers were untripped and power was coming out of each breaker at the
circuit box as evidenced by a tong meter.

Because my bud and I had just been working on the main panel, we were
certain that was where the problem was likely to be. But no amount of
inspection or probing with a wooden dowel revealed anything. The solution
came this morning, quite by accident. It









ubleshooting tips do you have?

On 01/11/2016 3:10 PM, badgolferman wrote:
....

No big deal to the whole thing. I pulled out the switch and saw one of the
wires loose. I put it back on properly and everything checked good.

Sounds like backstab? If so, hopefully the "properly" above is defined
as putting both it and the other lead on the screw terminals...

--

dpb wrote:
On 01/11/2016 3:10 PM, badgolferman wrote:
...

No big deal to the whole thing. I pulled out the switch and saw one of the
wires loose. I put it back on properly and everything checked good.

Sounds like backstab? If so, hopefully the "properly" above is defined
as putting both it and the other lead on the screw terminals...

--





Yes.

On 1/11/2016 4:10 PM, badgolferman wrote:

No big deal to the whole thing. I pulled out the switch and saw one of the
wires loose. I put it back on properly and everything checked good.


I hope the cold people in the cold house
were properly thankful?

As for me, I do thank you for the follow
up, it is good to know what works.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/11/2016 4:10 PM, badgolferman wrote:

No big deal to the whole thing. I pulled out the switch and saw one of the
wires loose. I put it back on properly and everything checked good.


I've been known to use a bit of dielectric
grease, to reduce the chance of corrosion
at some later date.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 6:18:20 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've been known to use a bit of dielectric
grease, to reduce the chance of corrosion
at some later date.

No doubt it's your KY substitute...you yammer about it so much! —–|—”—¡—‰|——