Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.


2 amp setting charges at about 3 amps, 10 amp setting charges at about
twice that, 6 amps.

Now, no reason to take apart the charger, but peeking in the slots
does show what is probably a circuit board about the size of half a
Nabisco graham cracker. It's covered by a sheet of metal. I assumed
no slots on the other side but I should have looked. So I don't know
what was in there.

This one was made in January 1997, but the same model, 87102, but with
a suffix C, is still sold! No indication on the charger or in the
Lowes, Home Depot, Amazon advertising or even the maker's website that
is any smarter than stupid, even though it looks like it must be (but
maybe not***). In fact they make a point to call it "manual".

http://www.centurytool.net/87102C_Ce... _p/87102c.htm
http://www.centuryequipment.net/Century_87102C.shtml
http://www.centuryequipment.net/pdf/...9%20ESHEET.pdf
"Easy-to-use manual controls."


***In the 10amp setting " The meter will
read up to 15 amps and taper down to 6 or 7 as the
battery reaches full charge. When the battery is fully
charged you must shut off the charger within 2 hours or
overcharging will occur." So it's semi-smart. (In the 6volt setting,
it doesn't taper down) It doesn't have a warning l ike this for the
2 amp setting!

The model with the next higher number, on 10 amps, says it tapers down
to 1 amp and you have to disconnecte within 24 hours. That's better
yet!


It also says "Note:
Do not use this battery charger to charge batteries
larger than those typically found in boats,
passenger cars, or light trucks"
Why would that be???


About a charger that is 3 levels fancier than mine, it says
"Preactivation of a Discharged Battery
The instructions will bore you but here they a

Preactivation will raise the voltage in a 12 volt battery to a
level high enough to allow the charger to operate in the
automatic mode. This step is required if you have been
attempting to charge a low or dead battery and the battery
has not been accepting any charge.
Select the START position on the SELECT
FUNCTION switch.
Select the highest charging position on the SELECT
SETTING switch. (Not the Start setting.)
Charge the 12 volt battery for 5–15 minutes
Select the CHARGE position on the SELECT
FUNCTION switch.
The battery should now accept the charge and the
amperage meter should indicate 6–15 amps. If not, the
battery should be professionally tested. If battery is okay,
call Technical Service at (866) 236-0044"

On 12/2/2015 5:47 PM, Micky wrote:
Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.




I already told you that open circuit readings on a battery charger are
meaningless

"philo" wrote in message
...
On 12/2/2015 5:47 PM, Micky wrote:
Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.




I already told you that open circuit readings on a battery charger are
meaningless



I am sure it dependson the charger as to what hapens.

I have a simple 10 amp charger. It has a transfromer that is center tapped
and each side of center goes to a diode. It does have an amp meter and a
thermal overload device.

Hooking a Simpson 260 (analog) and Fluke (digital) meter to the open leads
only shows just under 12 volts and 11.78 volts. I did check both meters
with another Fluke just to be sure everything shows where 12 volts actually
is,especially on the analog meter when connected to a well filtered and
regulated DC supply.

Hooking to a scope set for DC shows the familiar humps of a full wave
rectifier. They go from 0 to about 16 volts.

Loading it with a light bulb that pulls around 2 amps drops the meter
voltage about half a volt with not much of a change in what the scope shows.
I did not look carefuly at the scope so it may have made a slight change.

I did not try a smart charger I have as like someone said it may take
battery with a voltage to make it work.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 18:01:51 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/2/2015 5:47 PM, Micky wrote:
Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.




I already told you that open circuit readings on a battery charger are
meaningless

Yes, but I don't agree with you. If this were my 1 amp charger that I
got second-hand from my cousin in 1965, the open circuit voltage would
not be meaningless at all.


(BTW, I used that the winter of '67-68 to keep the 6-volt battery in
my '50 Olds charged, but putting it on the 6 volt setting was not
enough, so I put it on 12v. and the little glass circuit breaker (the
shape of a little neon light) would trip after about 20 seconds, then
reset after about 10 seconds, so during the 3+ months the car was
hooked up that way, it tripped about 300,000 times, but the circuit
breaker still works fine.

(120x24x100 2400+480=3000 x 100=300,000 )

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 19:20:23 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"philo" wrote in message
...
On 12/2/2015 5:47 PM, Micky wrote:
Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.




I already told you that open circuit readings on a battery charger are
meaningless



I am sure it dependson the charger as to what hapens.

I have a simple 10 amp charger. It has a transfromer that is center tapped
and each side of center goes to a diode. It does have an amp meter and a
thermal overload device.

Hooking a Simpson 260 (analog) and Fluke (digital) meter to the open leads
only shows just under 12 volts and 11.78 volts. I did check both meters
with another Fluke just to be sure everything shows where 12 volts actually
is,especially on the analog meter when connected to a well filtered and
regulated DC supply.

Hooking to a scope set for DC shows the familiar humps of a full wave
rectifier. They go from 0 to about 16 volts.

Loading it with a light bulb that pulls around 2 amps drops the meter
voltage about half a volt with not much of a change in what the scope shows.

Not a good sign.

I did not look carefuly at the scope so it may have made a slight change.

I did not try a smart charger I have as like someone said it may take
battery with a voltage to make it work.

I don't get it. Would you use one charger to charge your apparently
broken charger, or do you have a weak battery somewhere?

On 12/2/2015 7:57 PM, Micky wrote:



(BTW, I used that the winter of '67-68 to keep the 6-volt battery in
my '50 Olds charged, but putting it on the 6 volt setting was not
enough, so I put it on 12v. and the little glass circuit breaker (the
shape of a little neon light) would trip after about 20 seconds, then
reset after about 10 seconds, so during the 3+ months the car was
hooked up that way, it tripped about 300,000 times, but the circuit
breaker still works fine.

(120x24x100 2400+480=3000 x 100=300,000 )




Neat


In 1971 I had a '53 Chevy 3100 truck


Made a battery charger from using a six volt filament winding from the
power transformer from my Ham Radio transmitter and a bridge rectifier.


Ran the extension cord across the sidewalk to keep the battery charged
and though it got quite cold the truck usually started.


I always worried about the cord across the sidewalk but no one messed
with it. Probably not too many pedestrians in those cold winters.

Micky wrote:
Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.


2 amp setting charges at about 3 amps, 10 amp setting charges at about
twice that, 6 amps.

Now, no reason to take apart the charger, but peeking in the slots
does show what is probably a circuit board about the size of half a
Nabisco graham cracker. It's covered by a sheet of metal. I assumed
no slots on the other side but I should have looked. So I don't know
what was in there.

This one was made in January 1997, but the same model, 87102, but with
a suffix C, is still sold! No indication on the charger or in the
Lowes, Home Depot, Amazon advertising or even the maker's website that
is any smarter than stupid, even though it looks like it must be (but
maybe not***). In fact they make a point to call it "manual".

http://www.centurytool.net/87102C_Ce... _p/87102c.htm
http://www.centuryequipment.net/Century_87102C.shtml
http://www.centuryequipment.net/pdf/...9%20ESHEET.pdf
"Easy-to-use manual controls."


***In the 10amp setting " The meter will
read up to 15 amps and taper down to 6 or 7 as the
battery reaches full charge. When the battery is fully
charged you must shut off the charger within 2 hours or
overcharging will occur." So it's semi-smart. (In the 6volt setting,
it doesn't taper down) It doesn't have a warning l ike this for the
2 amp setting!

I wouldn't use the higher charge rates for a scooter battery. It's just too
small to handler them well.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 20:40:45 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/2/2015 7:57 PM, Micky wrote:



(BTW, I used that the winter of '67-68 to keep the 6-volt battery in
my '50 Olds charged, but putting it on the 6 volt setting was not
enough, so I put it on 12v. and the little glass circuit breaker (the
shape of a little neon light) would trip after about 20 seconds, then
reset after about 10 seconds, so during the 3+ months the car was
hooked up that way, it tripped about 300,000 times, but the circuit
breaker still works fine.

(120x24x100 2400+480=3000 x 100=300,000 )



Neat


In 1971 I had a '53 Chevy 3100 truck


Made a battery charger from using a six volt filament winding from the
power transformer from my Ham Radio transmitter and a bridge rectifier.


Ran the extension cord across the sidewalk to keep the battery charged
and though it got quite cold the truck usually started.


I always worried about the cord across the sidewalk but no one messed
with it. Probably not too many pedestrians in those cold winters.

Right. In the townhouse where I am now, to run an extension cord, I
have to over a public sidewalk. It's quiet but still public. I've
put a small rug over the cord when it goes over the walk, but then I
think, it's probably as easy to trip on the rug as on the orange
electric cord.


I should add wrt the car and the chaerger, that the it started all
winter, cold Chicago winter, except New Year's Eve, even colder than
usual, and I called road service, and they couldn't get me started
either, with their cables, even though it started with no special work
during the day the next day or the day after. Maybe it was because
most times I would start the car at 10 or 3 during the day, but on
New Years, I didn't try to run it until 9PM.

On 12/03/2015 10:57 AM, Micky wrote:
bly not too many pedestrians in those cold winters.

Right. In the townhouse where I am now, to run an extension cord, I
have to over a public sidewalk. It's quiet but still public. I've
put a small rug over the cord when it goes over the walk, but then I
think, it's probably as easy to trip on the rug as on the orange
electric cord.


I should add wrt the car and the chaerger, that the it started all
winter, cold Chicago winter, except New Year's Eve, even colder than
usual, and I called road service, and they couldn't get me started
either, with their cables, even though it started with no special work
during the day the next day or the day after. Maybe it was because
most times I would start the car at 10 or 3 during the day, but on
New Years, I didn't try to run it until 9PM.




Also:

If I could not get a parking space directly in front of my house...not
even a block away was quite a steep hill and I'd park on top.

It was long enough that I had three chances to pop the clutch and try to
start it that way.

Only once did I not get it started...but there was enough momentum for
me to at least get the thing over to the curb.

I guess I must have walked to school that day. Anyway, by the time I got
home it was warm enough that the truck started.

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 11:48:02 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/03/2015 10:57 AM, Micky wrote:
bly not too many pedestrians in those cold winters.

Right. In the townhouse where I am now, to run an extension cord, I
have to over a public sidewalk. It's quiet but still public. I've
put a small rug over the cord when it goes over the walk, but then I
think, it's probably as easy to trip on the rug as on the orange
electric cord.


I should add wrt the car and the chaerger, that the it started all
winter, cold Chicago winter, except New Year's Eve, even colder than
usual, and I called road service, and they couldn't get me started
either, with their cables, even though it started with no special work
during the day the next day or the day after. Maybe it was because
most times I would start the car at 10 or 3 during the day, but on
New Years, I didn't try to run it until 9PM.




Also:

If I could not get a parking space directly in front of my house...not
even a block away was quite a steep hill and I'd park on top.

It was long enough that I had three chances to pop the clutch and try to
start it that way.

Only once did I not get it started...but there was enough momentum for
me to at least get the thing over to the curb.

I guess I must have walked to school that day. Anyway, by the time I got
home it was warm enough that the truck started.

LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 19:10:17 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Micky wrote:
Warm day, rain ended, tested charger.

No pen or paper, voltages are approximate.

On 2 amp setting was about 11.5 volts but after connnected to the
battery for a couple minutes, and then disconnected, up to 12.6 or
13.6, I forget.

After reconnected, up to 14.2. !!!! It works.


2 amp setting charges at about 3 amps, 10 amp setting charges at about
twice that, 6 amps.

Now, no reason to take apart the charger, but peeking in the slots
does show what is probably a circuit board about the size of half a
Nabisco graham cracker. It's covered by a sheet of metal. I assumed
no slots on the other side but I should have looked. So I don't know
what was in there.

This one was made in January 1997, but the same model, 87102, but with
a suffix C, is still sold! No indication on the charger or in the
Lowes, Home Depot, Amazon advertising or even the maker's website that
is any smarter than stupid, even though it looks like it must be (but
maybe not***). In fact they make a point to call it "manual".

http://www.centurytool.net/87102C_Ce... _p/87102c.htm
http://www.centuryequipment.net/Century_87102C.shtml
http://www.centuryequipment.net/pdf/...9%20ESHEET.pdf
"Easy-to-use manual controls."


***In the 10amp setting " The meter will
read up to 15 amps and taper down to 6 or 7 as the
battery reaches full charge. When the battery is fully
charged you must shut off the charger within 2 hours or
overcharging will occur." So it's semi-smart. (In the 6volt setting,
it doesn't taper down) It doesn't have a warning l ike this for the
2 amp setting!

I wouldn't use the higher charge rates for a scooter battery. It's just too
small to handler them well.

You're right. Thanks.

Right now, I still haven't bought a new battery, but a friend whose
riding mower finally needed too many repairs lent me its battery.
10AH, and 3 times as big as the space provided in the scooter.

Based on the earlier thread, I've been estimating how much I used for
cranking, and charging with the 1-amp charger just long enough to
replace that. Yesterday I figured that was 40 minutes.

I also removed the tail light, so that when I'm not cranking but
haven't turned off the ignition**, the battery is only powering the
front running light and the ignition, but I disconnect all of that
within a minute.

**I also made it easier to turn off the ignition by getting 2 more 12-
inch jumper wires, so that the wires aren't in front of the scooter
but long enough to drape back over the handlebars, where I alligator
clip one to another. And before that, I stuffed spade connectors in
the quick connector in front so that I don't have to force the
alligator clips in the small slots, only to have them spring back out
later.

Cold and windy today. Warmer tomorrow. Time for another tryl.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:16:02 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 11:48:02 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/03/2015 10:57 AM, Micky wrote:
bly not too many pedestrians in those cold winters.

Right. In the townhouse where I am now, to run an extension cord, I
have to over a public sidewalk. It's quiet but still public. I've
put a small rug over the cord when it goes over the walk, but then I
think, it's probably as easy to trip on the rug as on the orange
electric cord.


I should add wrt the car and the chaerger, that the it started all
winter, cold Chicago winter, except New Year's Eve, even colder than
usual, and I called road service, and they couldn't get me started
either, with their cables, even though it started with no special work
during the day the next day or the day after. Maybe it was because
most times I would start the car at 10 or 3 during the day, but on
New Years, I didn't try to run it until 9PM.




Also:

If I could not get a parking space directly in front of my house...not
even a block away was quite a steep hill and I'd park on top.

It was long enough that I had three chances to pop the clutch and try to
start it that way.

Only once did I not get it started...but there was enough momentum for
me to at least get the thing over to the curb.

I guess I must have walked to school that day. Anyway, by the time I got
home it was warm enough that the truck started.

LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

On 12/3/2015 2:16 PM, Micky wrote:
On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 11:48:02 -0600, philo wrote:


Also:

If I could not get a parking space directly in front of my house...not
even a block away was quite a steep hill and I'd park on top.

It was long enough that I had three chances to pop the clutch and try to
start it that way.

Only once did I not get it started...but there was enough momentum for
me to at least get the thing over to the curb.

I guess I must have walked to school that day. Anyway, by the time I got
home it was warm enough that the truck started.

LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.




Not too many hills in Milwaukee either but I lived on the top of a river
bank.

On 12/3/2015 4:12 PM, wrote:


LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.




Not sure what EFI is but I don't think they had that in 1953.


The truck had a generator and one day I put the battery in backwards and
the generator just re-polarized and worked fine...the ammeter just read
negative rather than positive. The gas gauged pegged backwards but
absolutely no harm was done.

The radio even worked as it ran off a vibrator.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 17:12:09 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2015 15:16:02 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 11:48:02 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/03/2015 10:57 AM, Micky wrote:
bly not too many pedestrians in those cold winters.

Right. In the townhouse where I am now, to run an extension cord, I
have to over a public sidewalk. It's quiet but still public. I've
put a small rug over the cord when it goes over the walk, but then I
think, it's probably as easy to trip on the rug as on the orange
electric cord.


I should add wrt the car and the chaerger, that the it started all
winter, cold Chicago winter, except New Year's Eve, even colder than
usual, and I called road service, and they couldn't get me started
either, with their cables, even though it started with no special work
during the day the next day or the day after. Maybe it was because
most times I would start the car at 10 or 3 during the day, but on
New Years, I didn't try to run it until 9PM.




Also:

If I could not get a parking space directly in front of my house...not
even a block away was quite a steep hill and I'd park on top.

It was long enough that I had three chances to pop the clutch and try to
start it that way.

Only once did I not get it started...but there was enough momentum for
me to at least get the thing over to the curb.

I guess I must have walked to school that day. Anyway, by the time I got
home it was warm enough that the truck started.

LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 16:32:18 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 4:12 PM, wrote:


LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.




Not sure what EFI is but I don't think they had that in 1953.

Electronic fuel injection. (Somehow it makes the hills hillier.
grin. No, it means it starts easily and quickly.)


The truck had a generator and one day I put the battery in backwards and
the generator just re-polarized and worked fine...the ammeter just read
negative rather than positive. The gas gauged pegged backwards but
absolutely no harm was done.

The radio even worked as it ran off a vibrator.

Wow.

emailed to friends

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 16:32:18 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 4:12 PM, wrote:


LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.




Not sure what EFI is but I don't think they had that in 1953.
Electronic Fuel Injection - definitely not available in '53.


The truck had a generator and one day I put the battery in backwards and
the generator just re-polarized and worked fine...the ammeter just read
negative rather than positive. The gas gauged pegged backwards but
absolutely no harm was done.

The radio even worked as it ran off a vibrator.
That depended on the vibrator. If it was a "syncronous rectifier"
vibrator they would not run on reverse polarity. You must have been
lucky and had one with a 6x5, 6z4, or 84 rectifier tube - which did
allow running them reverse polarity.

On 12/3/2015 8:53 PM, wrote:

The radio even worked as it ran off a vibrator.
That depended on the vibrator. If it was a "syncronous rectifier"
vibrator they would not run on reverse polarity. You must have been
lucky and had one with a 6x5, 6z4, or 84 rectifier tube - which did
allow running them reverse polarity.




Sure don't remember what it was but beyond any doubt it worked.


The truck is long gone...gave it to a friend who needed the 16" tires.


I did pull the radio out but think I kept the tone knob from it that
said "mellow"

On 12/3/2015 8:15 PM, Micky wrote:
X
LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)




Well not too many vehicles left with manual transmissions.

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 22:24:54 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:15 PM, Micky wrote:
X
LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)




Well not too many vehicles left with manual transmissions.
Youngest daughter has never owned anything but. Her "guy" drives
automatics, so she's driven the bigHemi Ram 4x4 automatic, and the 6
liter Suburban 4X4, towing the boat and hauling the kids and dogs -
but she still loves the 5 speed Civic which is her "personal" car.
(her 3rd standard).
My wife used to drive standard too - the Tercel, the Firenza, the
Rabbit (occaisionally) but she won't drive the Ranger - says she's
too old to go back to clutching again.

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 22:24:54 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:15 PM, Micky wrote:
X
LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)




Well not too many vehicles left with manual transmissions.

That's true too. I own automatics, but when I rent, I rent sticks
because they're cheaper.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 01:02:25 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 22:24:54 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:15 PM, Micky wrote:
X
LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)




Well not too many vehicles left with manual transmissions.

That's true too. I own automatics, but when I rent, I rent sticks
because they're cheaper.
Not around here. Virtually all rentals are automatic - if anything you
would pay more for a "stick" because it would be a specialty
performance vehicle here.
You must be in Britain or samewhere like that.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 12:12:54 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 01:02:25 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 22:24:54 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:15 PM, Micky wrote:
X
LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)




Well not too many vehicles left with manual transmissions.

That's true too. I own automatics, but when I rent, I rent sticks
because they're cheaper.
Not around here. Virtually all rentals are automatic - if anything you
would pay more for a "stick" because it would be a specialty
performance vehicle here.

I'll bear that in mind and not assume it will be cheaper.

You must be in Britain or samewhere like that.

When I travel. The last car I got was a tiny FIAT - I can't remember
the model --, smaller than anything that was sold in the US up to 5 or
10 years ago. It did carry 4 people and have a small area for hiding
luggage, and it had power windows!.

On 12/4/2015 12:57 PM, Micky wrote:
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 12:12:54 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 01:02:25 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 22:24:54 -0600, philo wrote:

On 12/3/2015 8:15 PM, Micky wrote:
X
LOL

This wouldn't work in Chicago, where the last story was set. Too
flat.
With EFI, it doesn't take much of a slope. My ranger rolls about 3
feet down my driveway (slopes about a foot in 12) - I pop the clutch
and it's running - virtually every time.

That's very good to know, but it still doesn't apply to 90% of
Chicago, including every place I went. ;-)




Well not too many vehicles left with manual transmissions.

That's true too. I own automatics, but when I rent, I rent sticks
because they're cheaper.
Not around here. Virtually all rentals are automatic - if anything you
would pay more for a "stick" because it would be a specialty
performance vehicle here.

I'll bear that in mind and not assume it will be cheaper.

You must be in Britain or somewhere like that.

When I travel. The last car I got was a tiny FIAT - I can't remember
the model --, smaller than anything that was sold in the US up to 5 or
10 years ago. It did carry 4 people and have a small area for hiding
luggage, and it had power windows!.


Stick is cheaper in Europe. They get a hefty premium for automatics and
for anything larger than a sardine can. In the US, I've never seen
anything other than an automatic rental, but they may exist.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


Stick is cheaper in Europe. They get a hefty premium for automatics and
for anything larger than a sardine can. In the US, I've never seen
anything other than an automatic rental, but they may exist.

I bet that 90% of the people in the US much under 40 can not drive a stick
unless they have lived on a farm. Very few people have them now and they do
not have them in the drivers ed at school.

North Carolina was talking about doing away with DE in schools. Not sure if
they did or not. Foolish thing if they do. They will save a few bucks and
open the doors for more accidents due to unskiled drivers.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 19:15:27 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


Stick is cheaper in Europe. They get a hefty premium for automatics and
for anything larger than a sardine can. In the US, I've never seen
anything other than an automatic rental, but they may exist.

I bet that 90% of the people in the US much under 40 can not drive a stick
unless they have lived on a farm. Very few people have them now and they do
not have them in the drivers ed at school.

I've never owned a stick and my parents didn't since I was born, but I
read in a book how to drive one, and memorized it. Then a friend was
going to use his car on a trip we were taking, but he couldn't leave
unt il a few days later, so he took two of us out and taught us how to
drive his stick. We were going from Chicago to Pittsburgh, only 3
traffic lights at each end, so he said we wouldn't have to shift much,
and he was right.

North Carolina was talking about doing away with DE in schools. Not sure if
they did or not. Foolish thing if they do. They will save a few bucks and
open the doors for more accidents due to unskiled drivers.

Just found out a week ago that Md. or maybe Baltimore or Baltimore
County did do away with it a few years ago, but they're bringing it
back, starting this year or last year.