I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.
--
Cal

On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 4:51:45 PM UTC-5, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.
--
Cal

Have you opened the highest and lowest faucets as well as faucets In between? With
the top most and lowest faucets open, all water should drain from the system.

If the flow doesn't eventually stop, I would check the meter. If it is registering flow with the
faucets open and the main shutoff closed, then the main isn't really closed. It could be bad.
If that's the case, you'll need to call your local water authority and have them shut the water
off at the street so you can fix your shutoff.

One more tip related to shutoffs: whenever you open a shutoff, you should open it all the
way and then close it about 1/8 of a turn. If you leave it open all the way, you have no
"play" should it get stuck due to corrosion, etc. If it's left fully open, you might not be able to
close it, which could be an issue in an emergency.

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 11/8/2015 2:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm able to
shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some faucets and let
it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null in terms of flux.

First, it is entirely possible that the "shutoff" doesn't shut, completely.
Many of these (esp older) were gate valves which are notorious for not
shutting off after years of unuse (it's literally a "gate" that slides
down to block the water path through the valve -- calcifications, etc.
end up preventing it from seating completely after longs periods of unuse)

Second, your hot water supply is probably back feeding into the cold
water supply (in the absence of any positive pressure) so there will be some
flow until it, too, is depleted (assuming the shutoff *does* function
properly).

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water heater, so
I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water heater as well in order
to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Look for outdoor hose bibbs as well.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light on for
all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Turn off the water heater if you expect it to drain. You don't want to be
heating an empty vessel!

Resist the temptation to drain the water heater from the "boiler drain"
that is present in the side of the water heater. Again, these things are so
rarely used that you might find *opening* it leaves you with a valve that
you can never *close* properly, afterwards! (why make extra work for
yourself, *now*?)

What's the reason you are turning the water supply off?

Don Y wrote :
On 11/8/2015 2:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm able
to
shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some faucets and
let
it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null in terms of flux.

First, it is entirely possible that the "shutoff" doesn't shut, completely.
Many of these (esp older) were gate valves which are notorious for not
shutting off after years of unuse (it's literally a "gate" that slides
down to block the water path through the valve -- calcifications, etc.
end up preventing it from seating completely after longs periods of unuse)

Second, your hot water supply is probably back feeding into the cold
water supply (in the absence of any positive pressure) so there will be some
flow until it, too, is depleted (assuming the shutoff *does* function
properly).

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so
I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water heater as well in
order
to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Look for outdoor hose bibbs as well.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light on
for
all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Turn off the water heater if you expect it to drain. You don't want to be
heating an empty vessel!

Resist the temptation to drain the water heater from the "boiler drain"
that is present in the side of the water heater. Again, these things are so
rarely used that you might find *opening* it leaves you with a valve that
you can never *close* properly, afterwards! (why make extra work for
yourself, *now*?)

What's the reason you are turning the water supply off?

In some juristictions a Non Return valve is required to stop the hot
water feeding back into the cold (and Town) system.

--
John G Sydney.

On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 13:51:58 -0800, Cal Dershowitz
wrote:

I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

If you open the faucets above and below the water heater air will
enter the pipes and break the siphon that would be necessary to drain
the heater.
You should still run the hot water until all the air is out (after
restoring water pressure) before you turn the heat on, just to be sure
it is full.

On 11/8/2015 5:19 PM, John G wrote:

In some juristictions a Non Return valve is required to stop the hot water
feeding back into the cold (and Town) system.

Here, you just install a heat trap (primarily for your own efficiency).
Pressure reducing valve (drops the 100+ PSI municipal supply down to
something more manageable for appliances -- which, I think, expect ~80PSI
max) effectively prevents water from reentering the municipal supply.

Here, we worry more about irrigation water being siphoned back into the
municipal supply (e.g., if a fire engine pulls a vacuum on a local
hydrant or supply pressure fails for other reasons). People like
to use *lots* of herbicides and insecticides in their "lawns", here.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2015 20:37:11 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 5:19 PM, John G wrote:

In some juristictions a Non Return valve is required to stop the hot water
feeding back into the cold (and Town) system.

Here, you just install a heat trap (primarily for your own efficiency).
Pressure reducing valve (drops the 100+ PSI municipal supply down to
something more manageable for appliances -- which, I think, expect ~80PSI
max) effectively prevents water from reentering the municipal supply.

Here, we worry more about irrigation water being siphoned back into the
municipal supply (e.g., if a fire engine pulls a vacuum on a local
hydrant or supply pressure fails for other reasons). People like
to use *lots* of herbicides and insecticides in their "lawns", here.


All water lines are required to have backflow preventers here. There
are usually 2 check valves in that assembly.

On 11/8/2015 9:22 PM, wrote:

All water lines are required to have backflow preventers here. There
are usually 2 check valves in that assembly.

"Requirements" seem to have little to do with what is *actually*
installed, here.

E.g., irrigation supply is supposed to have an anti-siphon device
installed 12" (or more) above the highest point in the system.
I can walk around the neighborhood and count the number of
homes that have these installed -- on a single *hand*!

Few homes have pressure regulators (not a requirement, just
something you do if you value your plumbing and appliances!)
and most folks aren't aware that the city has been increasing
supply pressure to accommodate increased demand without
increasing the sizes of the lines that supply the water
to homes. And, few folks have considered the extra head
required to lift the water the 30-40 ft from the local well
up to the level of the street that "feeds" our subdivision.

Homes *with* pressure regulators seldom have expansion tanks
installed. As a result, the pressure regulator does little
to "protect" the plumbing when there is a fair bit of hot water
demand.

Rainwater collection tanks are supposed to be located 10 ft
from property lines. Yet, most are located in side yards
and easily violate that constraint.

Etc.

With the exception of expansion tanks, virtually all of this
stuff is visible to anyone driving down the street...

On Sun, 08 Nov 2015 22:59:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Rainwater collection tanks are supposed to be located 10 ft
from property lines. Yet, most are located in side yards
and easily violate that constraint.

Why????
This makes no sense.....

On 11/8/2015 7:31 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 13:51:58 -0800, Cal Dershowitz
wrote:

I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

If you open the faucets above and below the water heater air will
enter the pipes and break the siphon that would be necessary to drain
the heater.

Thx all for comments. I know it sounds banal as heck, and youtubing was
a good resource, but I always find that I believe what I'm doing is
correct when I hear it in a peer-moderated forum.

I turned off the main (water) supply, then closed the supply to the
water heater...faucets open above and below...sawzall out shower
faucet...make new stubs with galvanized half inch pipe with caps, ready
for transition to copper.

Is there anything about the transition from a male galvanized nipple to
a female copper adapter that is trickier than use thread seal and
tension properly?
You should still run the hot water until all the air is out (after
restoring water pressure) before you turn the heat on, just to be sure
it is full.


I never drained it, never turned it off, but I appreciate the tip to
bleed out any air.

It made me go do it, and I heard a bump indicating something was still
not completely water.
--
Cal

On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 7:31:24 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 13:51:58 -0800, Cal Dershowitz
wrote:

I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

If you open the faucets above and below the water heater air will
enter the pipes and break the siphon that would be necessary to drain
the heater.
You should still run the hot water until all the air is out (after
restoring water pressure) before you turn the heat on, just to be sure
it is full.

I've never seen a water heater that didn't have its own drain valve.

Harry K

On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

Oh my... "faucets", "toilet", "heater" seems to point to a water
supply. Sometimes you have to read between the lines

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 00:42:22 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 08 Nov 2015 22:59:05 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Rainwater collection tanks are supposed to be located 10 ft
from property lines. Yet, most are located in side yards
and easily violate that constraint.

Why????
This makes no sense.....

....to Canadians.

Trees and irrigation lines have to be X feet from neighboring block
walls too.

On 11/9/2015 10:23 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

Oh my... "faucets", "toilet", "heater" seems to point to a water
supply. Sometimes you have to read between the lines


I re-read the original post, and it was ambiguous. Of course, I knew
what I was talking about, and I did mean water supply, but that's
supposed to be summarized in the subject.
--
Cal

On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 16:18:53 -0800, Cal Dershowitz
wrote:

On 11/9/2015 10:23 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

Oh my... "faucets", "toilet", "heater" seems to point to a water
supply. Sometimes you have to read between the lines


I re-read the original post, and it was ambiguous. Of course, I knew
what I was talking about, and I did mean water supply, but that's
supposed to be summarized in the subject.

I'm not mad.
--
"Never accuse a Soldier of being a Marine"

On 11/9/2015 1:23 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

Oh my... "faucets", "toilet", "heater" seems to point to a water
supply. Sometimes you have to read between the lines

It's been a day or two, and I'm still not sure
why the OP wants to "turn off supply correctly".

Must be he's going to Disney World for a week?
Deploying to Afghanistan for a year?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 11/9/2015 7:18 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:

I re-read the original post, and it was ambiguous. Of course, I knew
what I was talking about, and I did mean water supply, but that's
supposed to be summarized in the subject.

Your mother in law is visiting, and you want to
insure a very short visit?

We're still lacking some information. Why would
anyone want to turn off a supply correctly? You're
practicing emergency preparedness, and want to see
how your family will react?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 07:27:23 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/9/2015 1:23 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

Oh my... "faucets", "toilet", "heater" seems to point to a water
supply. Sometimes you have to read between the lines

It's been a day or two, and I'm still not sure
why the OP wants to "turn off supply correctly".

Must be he's going to Disney World for a week?
Deploying to Afghanistan for a year?

....or he wants to turn off the supply without breaking something?

On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 16:18:53 -0800, Cal Dershowitz
wrote:

On 11/9/2015 10:23 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 18:58:01 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/8/2015 4:51 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
I'm turning off supply in a house that is new to me. I think that I'm
able to shut off the supply as it comes into the house. I opened some
faucets and let it drain and flushed a toilet, but it never came to null
in terms of flux.

These faucets sit gravitionally-equal to the center of the hot water
heater, so I figure I have to turn off the supply to the hot water
heater as well in order to stop that from wanting to leave the heater.

Have I diagnosed my problem correctly, and can I leave the pilot light
on for all this safely? I could have the supply off for as much as a day.

Which supply? supply Air, gas, propane, fuel oil?
Cat food?

Oh my... "faucets", "toilet", "heater" seems to point to a water
supply. Sometimes you have to read between the lines


I re-read the original post, and it was ambiguous. Of course, I knew
what I was talking about, and I did mean water supply, but that's
supposed to be summarized in the subject.

An ongoing issue: I think it's much more important that all the facts
be in the BODY than in the subject.

The subject is there to attract attention, and subject lines like "I
have a problem" don't attract anyone in particular. One that
specifies someone's interest or specialty will attract them, so maybe
"water" will help that. But the question goes in the body of the
post.