Those of you who are using the common methods for blocking Windows 7 and Windows 8.1's obnoxious Win10 upgrade procedure take note. Apparently an update released yesterday changed an important registry setting -- DisableOSUpgrade -- that prevented
Windows 7 and 8.1 from proceeding with the forced march to Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...-in-force.html

Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10 that doesn't spy on us?
I suspect the medical business will need it to satisfy HIPPA laws.

On 10/16/2015 04:59 PM, Microsoft Bob wrote:
Those of you who are using the common methods for blocking Windows 7 and
Windows 8.1's obnoxious Win10 upgrade procedure take note. Apparently an
update released yesterday changed an important registry setting --
DisableOSUpgrade -- that prevented Windows 7 and 8.1 from proceeding
with the forced march to Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...-in-force.html


Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10
that doesn't spy on us?
I suspect the medical business will need it to satisfy HIPPA laws.



There is a utility to help


http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

| Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10
that doesn't spy on us?

There's been no such indication. They may offer a paid
version next year that does spy on you. The version
for corporations with large, multi-copy contracts allows
them to have more control and block updates. I don't
know that it allows disabling spyware. I haven't seen the
contract or EULA for the corporate version. There may not
even be a single version of those. And a surprising number
of companies are falling for the cloud fad, in which case
they're handing over all of their docs for someone else to
hold. Or they're using Office 365 online. How do we define
spyware when the users give their docs to Microsoft
willingly and work on them under Microsoft's control?

Windows 10 is an aggressive attempt to coerce the
Windows customer base into using online services and
giving up control of both the device and the software.
Microsoft is pushing what they call "universal apps" that
run on Win10 PCs, phones, tablets and X-Box. Universal
apps are something like sandboxed webpages. Even the
software developers have no control over the system.
Actual Windows software is still usable, but much of that
is going to subscription (like Adobe Photoshop and MS
Office). Over time it's likely that real Windows software
will be phased out altogether. Photoshop might still install
as software, but you'll access it in a limited way, with no
direct access to the actual files, while your use of the
software will appear to be online. In that case even Adobe
would only have such access to the OS as Microsoft deems
necessary. It's basically the kiosk operating system model.
Anyone using a computer-phone or tablet has already
accepted that level of restriction and spying.

It's all headed in that direction: Google, Facebook,
Amazon, Apple, Adobe.... Companies are trying to
own the whole thing, selling you a locked-down
device and then selling you services to run on it,
while showing you ads and spying on you. Microsoft
has been trying to get to this point ever since Active
Desktop in 1998. The only way they might realistically
be expected to reverse course would be if their strategy
turns out to be a total failure, with the 10s of millions
of people tricked into Win10 deciding to do something
like switch to Linux. That is *very* unlikely to happen.
The whole Microsoft strategy is underhanded and very
gradual. You're posting arcane instructions about how
to block Win10 from installing. The vast majority of
people will never know about that. Many will never
even realize their Win7 box has changed into Win10.
They won't know about the increased spying. They
won't be bothered by the Desktop ads. They already
accept that Microsoft is in charge -- so long as they can
get their email. So why would MS decide to kill the
potential golden goose and change Win10 into an
honest product?

There might be some hope with the EU, which is
notably more civilized than the US when it comes
to personal rights vs corporate profits. But even if
the EU cracks down that does nothing for US customers.

On 10/16/2015 2:59 PM, Microsoft Bob wrote:
Those of you who are using the common methods for blocking Windows 7 and
Windows 8.1's obnoxious Win10 upgrade procedure take note. Apparently an update
released yesterday changed an important registry setting -- DisableOSUpgrade --
that prevented Windows 7 and 8.1 from proceeding with the forced march to
Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...-in-force.html


Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10 that
doesn't spy on us?
I suspect the medical business will need it to satisfy HIPPA laws.

Doubtful. MS has belatedly learned that the "real money" is NOT in
selling software but, rather, selling *people*! Always last to the
dinner table, count on them to now excploit the hell out of this
"sudden realization" -- as if their business depended on it!

Relying on ANYTHING inside your PC to block MS is pure folly.
"Hello Mr Fox. Please keep a watchful eye on this HEN HOUSE..."

Install a firewall upstream and invest the time to figure out what
you truly want to block/permit.

Don Y writes:

On 10/16/2015 2:59 PM, Microsoft Bob wrote:
Those of you who are using the common methods for blocking Windows 7 and
Windows 8.1's obnoxious Win10 upgrade procedure take note. Apparently an update
released yesterday changed an important registry setting -- DisableOSUpgrade --
that prevented Windows 7 and 8.1 from proceeding with the forced march to
Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...-in-force.html


Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10 that
doesn't spy on us?
I suspect the medical business will need it to satisfy HIPPA laws.

Doubtful. MS has belatedly learned that the "real money" is NOT in
selling software but, rather, selling *people*! Always last to the
dinner table, count on them to now excploit the hell out of this
"sudden realization" -- as if their business depended on it!

Relying on ANYTHING inside your PC to block MS is pure folly.
"Hello Mr Fox. Please keep a watchful eye on this HEN HOUSE..."

Sorry, can't resist.

No ads here and none in sight.
Fedora Linux.

I hear OSX is drawing more converts.
AAPL doesn't need to sell software.

Microsoft knew all along they couldn't stay the same size
selling the same old OS for new machines only.
People don't upgrade because the OS is good enough.
MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
but I think they'll fail.
Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

--
Dan Espen

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 8:12:38 PM UTC-5, net cop wrote:
Don Y writes:

On 10/16/2015 2:59 PM, Microsoft Bob wrote:
Those of you who are using the common methods for blocking Windows 7 and
Windows 8.1's obnoxious Win10 upgrade procedure take note. Apparently an update
released yesterday changed an important registry setting -- DisableOSUpgrade --
that prevented Windows 7 and 8.1 from proceeding with the forced march to
Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...-in-force.html


Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10 that
doesn't spy on us?
I suspect the medical business will need it to satisfy HIPPA laws.

Doubtful. MS has belatedly learned that the "real money" is NOT in
selling software but, rather, selling *people*! Always last to the
dinner table, count on them to now excploit the hell out of this
"sudden realization" -- as if their business depended on it!

Relying on ANYTHING inside your PC to block MS is pure folly.
"Hello Mr Fox. Please keep a watchful eye on this HEN HOUSE..."

Sorry, can't resist.

No ads here and none in sight.
Fedora Linux.

I hear OSX is drawing more converts.
AAPL doesn't need to sell software.

Microsoft knew all along they couldn't stay the same size
selling the same old OS for new machines only.
People don't upgrade because the OS is good enough.
MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
but I think they'll fail.
Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

--
Dan Espen

I've been using the Chrome OS and a Chromebook. It updates automatically and I've never worried about a virus. I'm sure that if there is a malware program written for Chrome OS it gets quashed quickly and all Chrome devices are automatically updated with the fix. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Chrome Monster

On 10/16/2015 6:12 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
Microsoft knew all along they couldn't stay the same size
selling the same old OS for new machines only.
People don't upgrade because the OS is good enough.

They've been "smart enough" to put changes in the API's
and core services to coerce developers to move forward...
which coerces end users to move forward, etc. This has
been their modus operandi for each of their products
(Office, etc.).

MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
but I think they'll fail.

I suspect smart IT departments will just opt to stay with
older releases (I run XP on my workstations and there is
nothing that I need to do that I *can't* do -- efficiently!)

The disincentive for doing so is the lack of "support"
(drivers) for old OS's on new hardware.

Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

That's pretty obvious.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 19:47:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/16/2015 6:12 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
Microsoft knew all along they couldn't stay the same size
selling the same old OS for new machines only.
People don't upgrade because the OS is good enough.

They've been "smart enough" to put changes in the API's
and core services to coerce developers to move forward...
which coerces end users to move forward, etc. This has
been their modus operandi for each of their products
(Office, etc.).


I've had every mainstream version of Windows except 8/8.1, and not
encountered any serious issues with any of them.
Windows 10 a pleasant surprise. I've yet to download the NVIDIA
drivers for my high end graphics card, and am playing a number of
graphics intensive games with what MS provided in the vanilla install
of Pro.
It's leaner than Win 7 by about 5gb. Important to me, since I image.
The BS about spyware is just.....BS. Just stay off the net if you
"feel" that way.

MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
but I think they'll fail.

I suspect smart IT departments will just opt to stay with
older releases (I run XP on my workstations and there is
nothing that I need to do that I *can't* do -- efficiently!)

The disincentive for doing so is the lack of "support"
(drivers) for old OS's on new hardware.


I suspect large corporations will migrate to Windows 10.
The don't like pain.

Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

That's pretty obvious.

Smaller in employees, market cap, revenues?
I don't see them losing market share in the desktop market any time
soon. They're selling easy to use does-it-all software to the masses.
Not until somebody can cover the bases as well as MS does.
They may improve sales in the cell phone, tablet area, but I know
nothing about them.
Besides, I don't buy the notion that Windows 10 is "the end."
They'll have more versions to take advantage of new technology.

On 10/16/2015 10:49 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 19:47:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/16/2015 6:12 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
Microsoft knew all along they couldn't stay the same size
selling the same old OS for new machines only.
People don't upgrade because the OS is good enough.

They've been "smart enough" to put changes in the API's
and core services to coerce developers to move forward...
which coerces end users to move forward, etc. This has
been their modus operandi for each of their products
(Office, etc.).

I've had every mainstream version of Windows except 8/8.1, and not
encountered any serious issues with any of them.

That wasn't my point. You can't, for example, support a device
that was W98 vintage on a W10 system. E.g., I was annoyed that I couldnt
run /After Dark/ on XP (beyond some token subset).

Windows 10 a pleasant surprise. I've yet to download the NVIDIA
drivers for my high end graphics card, and am playing a number of
graphics intensive games with what MS provided in the vanilla install
of Pro.
It's leaner than Win 7 by about 5gb. Important to me, since I image.
The BS about spyware is just.....BS. Just stay off the net if you
"feel" that way.

I don't let any MS machines talk to the outside except this one -- which
has essentially two applications on it: Tbird and Ffox. It takes longer
for me to dig out a USB cable and the image disk than it does to restore
the original image (made when I built the machine). I.e., nothing
"valuable" to lose (even the email can be retrieved from the servers).

MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
but I think they'll fail.

I suspect smart IT departments will just opt to stay with
older releases (I run XP on my workstations and there is
nothing that I need to do that I *can't* do -- efficiently!)

The disincentive for doing so is the lack of "support"
(drivers) for old OS's on new hardware.

I suspect large corporations will migrate to Windows 10.
The don't like pain.

I'm not so sure. I see companies dragging their feet more and more...
resisting the MS "imperative" to "upgrade or die". I know many
places that skipped Vista altogether!

Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

That's pretty obvious.

Smaller in employees, market cap, revenues?

Smaller in stature. A "has been".

I don't see them losing market share in the desktop market any time
soon. They're selling easy to use does-it-all software to the masses.
Not until somebody can cover the bases as well as MS does.

I would look to folks like Dell and HP to more aggressively
move to offering cloud services (even if they are *local* clouds)
to leverage their *individual* hardware offerings. I.e., lock
clients into using their special "appliances" (modern day X terminals)
to connect with software running on their (more expensive) servers.

All the existing infrastructure can remain in place. IT department
can do all maintenance from the "server closet". Appliances can
be inexpensive/disposable as they won't need lots of resources
(diskless). Perhaps All-in-One form factor devices without the
*bulk* of current AIO offerings.

Most business seats can probably easily be handled with a
"productivity suite", browser and mail client. Highly technical
seats ("engineering") can stick with "compatible" workstations;
perhaps even deliberately offered to exploit *old* drivers
(with more MIPS).

They may improve sales in the cell phone, tablet area, but I know
nothing about them.

MS hasn't had much notable success in the phone business. They
see the world as WindowsWindowsWindows... (something about having
a hammer and everything looks like a tack...)

Besides, I don't buy the notion that Windows 10 is "the end."
They'll have more versions to take advantage of new technology.

I think the hardware vendors may be wanting a piece of that pie.
And, can possibly pitch a centralized solution as having a much lower
TCO than what Windows has already *taught* all of these customers!

(some of the whitepapers are startling in illustrating these
differences)

For every customer (business) that goes down this road, there are
potentially thousands of MS licenses lost! And, anyone who finds
a *good* experience will be an excellent salesperson *for* this
approach: "We managed to cut our equipment budget by $XX and
have done away with N support positions!"

I do all of my software development work using this model. I sit
down at any of ~dozen machines and start typing, compiling, debugging,
etc. No need to be in any particular place to have a particular piece
of software available.

My workstations are dedicated machines -- largely because each has
very specific peripherals that are tethered to those individual
machines (scanners, motion controllers, cameras, high end sound,
video acquisition, electronic test equipment, device programmers,
etc.). These machines cost me a disproportionate amount of time
(money) to maintain and tend to see very *few* upgrades -- because
installing all that software takes *days* for each machine (assuming
it *will* run on whatever upgraded hardware/OS I put in place).

Vic Smith writes:

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 19:47:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/16/2015 6:12 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

That's pretty obvious.

Smaller in employees, market cap, revenues?

I'm guessing all of the above.
Certainly further development of their OS is requiring less
and less people and bringing in less and less money.

They've done pretty well introducing incompatibility into their
office suite but I expect diminishing returns there too.

I don't see them losing market share in the desktop market any time
soon.

Agreed. But users sticking with XP, W7, etc. don't bring any revenue
to keep MSFT going.

They're selling easy to use does-it-all software to the masses.
Not until somebody can cover the bases as well as MS does.

OSX is reputed to be easier to use than Windows.
I know complete novices that switched and are very happy.
I find Linux just as easy to use, and I'm not alone.

They may improve sales in the cell phone, tablet area, but I know
nothing about them.

You should know that Linux is dominating that market.
Android, Kindle, Samsung, the only real competition comes from
Apple.

Besides, I don't buy the notion that Windows 10 is "the end."
They'll have more versions to take advantage of new technology.

They may create new versions, there will just be less and less
reasons to change.

--
Dan Espen

| The BS about spyware is just.....BS.

You can say that you think it's "BS" for people
to be concerned about privacy and security....
though it would be nice if you could be a bit
more articulate.

But you clearly haven't looked
into the actual facts, so you have no basis for
your opinion about there being a spyware aspect
to Win10. That's actually a surprisingly common
reaction: ostrich logic -- "I don't want to know
about it, because I don't want to make an effort,
therefore the problem is not there."

For anyone who cares about the actual facts,
in order to make their own *informed* opinion,
first there's the new privacy policy, which MS
changed with the release of Win10:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/priva...t/default.aspx

The non-business EULA says you agree to their
privacy policy. The privacy policy, in turn, says,
you will be spied on in numerous ways and not all
of them can be blocked. In other words, Microsoft
themselves are saying in plain language that Win10
is spyware, and that you must agree to that in order
to use Win10. It's part of the longstanding tradition
of writing mickey mouse licenses for software and
justifying it with the claim that you are not buying,
but licensing, the product.

Further, even the parts that can allegedly be
turned off may still be in surveillance mode after
being disabled. Anyone who wants to know the
basic issues can look at these links:

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...he-new-normal/

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...-to-microsoft/

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/






Just stay off the net if you
| "feel" that way.
|
| MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
| but I think they'll fail.
|
| I suspect smart IT departments will just opt to stay with
| older releases (I run XP on my workstations and there is
| nothing that I need to do that I *can't* do -- efficiently!)
|
| The disincentive for doing so is the lack of "support"
| (drivers) for old OS's on new hardware.
|
|
| I suspect large corporations will migrate to Windows 10.
| The don't like pain.
|
| Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.
|
| That's pretty obvious.
|
| Smaller in employees, market cap, revenues?
| I don't see them losing market share in the desktop market any time
| soon. They're selling easy to use does-it-all software to the masses.
| Not until somebody can cover the bases as well as MS does.
| They may improve sales in the cell phone, tablet area, but I know
| nothing about them.
| Besides, I don't buy the notion that Windows 10 is "the end."
| They'll have more versions to take advantage of new technology.
|

Dan Espen wrote in :


Microsoft knew all along they couldn't stay the same size
selling the same old OS for new machines only.
People don't upgrade because the OS is good enough.
MSFT is going to try to create an on-going revenue stream,
but I think they'll fail.

I hope so.

Ultimately, they'll be a smaller company.

Much smaller.

One of my fondest aspirations is to live long enough to see the day that Microsoft files for
Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

| Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10
that doesn't spy on us?

I just came across a very interesting piece that's
apropos he

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10...o r_deadline/

The European Union courts have ruled American
mass citizen surveillance illegal in Europe and given
the US gov't and companies until 1/31/16 to come
up with a credible solution or be blocked from storing
private data. I don't know exactly what that implies,
but it sounds promising. Companies like MS, Google,
Apple and Facebook have built their businesses around
spying on people for targetted advertising, while
sharing that data with the US gov't. It's hard to see
how their business model can be maintained if the EU
stick to their guns. Even as this is happening, Microsoft
is threatening to go to court over demands from the
US Justice Dept that they share hotmail data stored
in Ireland. The Justice Dept is trying to claim that the
personal data of Europeans is not personal data at
all but rather is Microsoft's business data, which they
have a right to inspect! MS is apparently at least making
a show of resistance in order to not entirely lose their
credibility in the EU. It seems that the EU and the US
gov't and corporations couldn't be further from an
agreement.

I'd like to see an expert business analysis of all this.
It's hard to know how it's likely to affect the US market
and American tech spying.

--
"Microsoft Bob" wrote in message
...

Those of you who are using the common methods for blocking Windows 7 and
Windows 8.1's obnoxious Win10 upgrade procedure take note. Apparently an
update released yesterday changed an important registry setting --
DisableOSUpgrade -- that prevented
Windows 7 and 8.1 from proceeding with the forced march to Windows 10.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...-in-force.html

Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10 that
doesn't spy on us?
I suspect the medical business will need it to satisfy HIPPA laws.

You don't know what yer talking about, you boob.
LOL

| Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering a paid version of Win10
that doesn't spy on us?
|
| Enterprise version.
|

Not exactly. I don't know whether they still sell the
so-called Enterprise version as a retail disk or not.
They may. Either way, the only version exempt from
forced updates is the corporate install under a Software
Assurance license. In other words, if you want to
be exempt from the "consumer EULA" you need to
contract with Microsoft. For that you need to be
making a very big order. Even then, it's not clear
how much spying can be stopped. You'd need to
ask some corporate IT people who've had time to
look into it. The only thing I've heard for certain is
that the corporate contract allows IT people to
block automatic updates.

| Let me do some more research.
|

This seems to cover it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions

Enterprise is available as volume license. Even that
includes "telemetry". As I understand it, what they
mean by that is Windows calling home with usage
data. And if you use things like Cortana you're adding
to the spying. It won't work otherwise.

I would think that corporate customers would be
allowed to control contact more, but that doesn't seem
to be the case. There's no indication in what I've
read anywhere that there's any reasonable way to
even stop the auto-updating outside of a coprorate,
multi-license contract, much less the spying.
And the auto-updating is being obscured. Microsoft
have announced that they'll no longer be detailing
what's in an update. So even corporate people who
can control the updates would have to reverse
engineer them to figure out what they are. And what
if a security update is linked to new ads on the Desktop?

It looks like Microsoft have really covered all the
angles on this one. As the saying goes, they gotcha
coming and going.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/299...e-updates.html