On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 5:47:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 21:51:37 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

or instal a VOIP phone that automatically calls 911 only as soon as its picked up.

simple cheap solution

I looked up VOIP. That wont work at all, because there is no internet in
that town. In fact the restaurant that burned was the only place in
town that had WIFI, which in itself drew in customers, esp. young kids
with smartphones.

If the restaurant has wifi, then there is obviously some internet
connectivity in the town. They are connected somehow.
And if that restaurant is an open Wifi and you had a VOIP app on
your smartphone, you could have made a call using that. I have a
VOIP app on my phone.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:08:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 5:47:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 21:51:37 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

or instal a VOIP phone that automatically calls 911 only as soon as its picked up.

simple cheap solution

I looked up VOIP. That wont work at all, because there is no internet in
that town. In fact the restaurant that burned was the only place in
town that had WIFI, which in itself drew in customers, esp. young kids
with smartphones.

If the restaurant has wifi, then there is obviously some internet
connectivity in the town. They are connected somehow.
And if that restaurant is an open Wifi and you had a VOIP app on
your smartphone, you could have made a call using that. I have a
VOIP app on my phone.

Since the origin of the fire was electrical, the WIFI was not likely
working at that time. Plus I do not have a smartphone. Just a basic
prepaid phone thats only a phone and texter.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

provide cell phone service to that town. How do we even know they
really don't already have it? Could be the carrier the OP has doesn't
have service there, his phone is configured to roam, etc.


The Sheriffs and Fire Dept. acknowledge there is no service. A cell
tower was to be built 4 years ago. A few months ago, they decided to
abandon it, and move it to another small town, claiming it will still
serve the town where the fire occured. Even the authorities said they
doubt it will help since the planned location of the new tower will be
12 miles away. Even so, there is no planned date to build the tower, and
it could be many more years ????

Even if they started to build a tower tomorrow, in the meantime there is
still no emergency service. A payphone can probably be installed in an
hour or two (or less).

Right now, payphones, or one of those 911 ONLY type of outdoor phones,
are the only option. (Or a call box, but those are REALLY obsolete).

It will be nice if they ever build a cell tower, but until then, a means
to call 911 is most important.

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 10:12:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

provide cell phone service to that town. How do we even know they
really don't already have it? Could be the carrier the OP has doesn't
have service there, his phone is configured to roam, etc.


The Sheriffs and Fire Dept. acknowledge there is no service. A cell
tower was to be built 4 years ago. A few months ago, they decided to
abandon it, and move it to another small town, claiming it will still
serve the town where the fire occured. Even the authorities said they
doubt it will help since the planned location of the new tower will be
12 miles away. Even so, there is no planned date to build the tower, and
it could be many more years ????

Even if they started to build a tower tomorrow, in the meantime there is
still no emergency service. A payphone can probably be installed in an
hour or two (or less).

I asked this before and didn't see an answer, so I'll try again.

How small is this town? Can they put the pay phone someplace where everyone - even out of
towners - could find it if there was a fire anywhere in town?

Would a single pay phone solve the issue that you are concerned about?


Right now, payphones, or one of those 911 ONLY type of outdoor phones,
are the only option. (Or a call box, but those are REALLY obsolete).

It will be nice if they ever build a cell tower, but until then, a means
to call 911 is most important.

On 10/16/2015 12:51 AM, bob haller wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 3:51:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
A small rural town in the Midwest has no cellphone signal at all. Last
week I was driving thru that town and developed vehicle problems, late
at night. The only businesses that might have been open that late would
have been taverns, but they were closed.

I grabbed my cell intending to call a friend to come help me, but I got
"NO SERVICE". I grabbed my tools, popped open the hood, and began trying
to find the problem. That's when I noticed smoke coming across the roof
of a restaurant building. At first I thought it was just a chimney from
a wood stove or something like that, and the smoke was just rolling
across the roof. (It was cold that night). But just to be sure, I
grabbed my flashlight and walked over to the building and looked around.
I saw no flames, so I just assumed it was a chimney, but I could not see
any chimney either, since the smoke was covering my view of the roof,
with only a flashlight.

I went back to working on my car, and occasionally looked at that roof.
The smoke seemed to be getting less, so I just figured it was just a
chimney. One and a half hours later I was able to find the car problem,
which was repairable and did not require any new parts to get home
(corroded electrical connection). I got my car running, and looked at
that building one more time, and still saw no flames or sign of any
actual fire. I was tired and glad to have my car running again, and I
drove home, knowing that the next day I'd do a more permanent repair on
my car.

The next morning I went to the auto parts store to get what I needed,
and told the guy how I had gotten stranded in that small town last
night. He said "did you see the huge fire there?" I asked what burned.
He said the restaurant burned to the ground. I later found that someone
called in the fire about 3 hours after I initially saw the smoke. I
nearly became sick to my stomach after he told me.

Normally, I would have called 911 and suggested that they come and check
that building, and told them I dont see any actual fire, but it looks
suspicious. But I could not use my cellphone to make the call. If I had
seen an actual fire, I would have banged on house doors and hopefully
woke someone up, but I did not want to wake someone up because of smoke
coming from a chimney.

Ive felt sort of sick about this ever since, but even more angry because
that town has no means of calling for help in an emergency. Until 3 or 4
years ago, there was a payphone there, but that's now gone. So, to make
myself feel better, I called the phone company and asked them why the
payphone was removed. They said payphones are obsolete. I did not hold
back when I said "OBSOLETE MY ASS, WHEN THERE IS NO CELLPHONE SERVICE
THERE. THERE WAS ALREADY A BUILDING LOST, MUST SOMEONE DIE BEFORE
SOMETHING IS DONE?". I told the same thing to the sheriffs and fire
chief when I told them what I saw.

We supposedly have all this high technology these days. We have all
these laws to protect us from every damn thing, such as seatbelt laws,
smoking restrictions, product alerts over lead, and all sorts of other
toxics, and the list goes on. But are we really any safer? Maybe the
big cities are, but not these rural areas. They are worse off than they
used to be. There is no excuse that payphone can not still be there. Who
cares if it's obsolete. It's NOT OBSOLETE when that is all that can be
used in a town like that.

Anyhow, I do not and will not accept that answer. I have now contacted
some of the top politicians in the state and county, and will continue
to persue this until something is done. I was told they plan to install
a cellphone tower, but I found that was planned 4 years ago, and nothing
has been done. I said, "even if they do eventually build a cell tower,
what happens until then?" JUST PUT THE DAMN PAYPHONE BACK!
I'm sure the phone companies have lots of unused payphones, and all it
takes is a half hour of time and a few screws and some wire to connect
it. Why is that so difficult??????

By the way, the fire began in the attic and was caused by electrical
issues. Becase of a metal roof, it remained concealed.

or instal a VOIP phone that automatically calls 911 only as soon as its picked up.

simple cheap solution


That is truly tragic. It's a real shame that you
were there, and you were concerned, but had no
way to call to have the smoke reported. Sounds
like if the fire department had responded when you
saw the smoke, the building could have been saved.

I sure wish this had turned out better.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 3:51:15 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I saw no flames, so I just assumed it was a chimney, but I could not see
any chimney either, since the smoke was covering my view of the roof,
with only a flashlight.


Smoke covering your view of the roof? That's
a good reason to pound some doors and try to
rouse up some one.

Ah, well. It's done now.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 11:32:35 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 10:12:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

provide cell phone service to that town. How do we even know they
really don't already have it? Could be the carrier the OP has doesn't
have service there, his phone is configured to roam, etc.


The Sheriffs and Fire Dept. acknowledge there is no service. A cell
tower was to be built 4 years ago. A few months ago, they decided to
abandon it, and move it to another small town, claiming it will still
serve the town where the fire occured. Even the authorities said they
doubt it will help since the planned location of the new tower will be
12 miles away. Even so, there is no planned date to build the tower, and
it could be many more years ????

Even if they started to build a tower tomorrow, in the meantime there is
still no emergency service. A payphone can probably be installed in an
hour or two (or less).

I asked this before and didn't see an answer, so I'll try again.

How small is this town? Can they put the pay phone someplace where everyone - even out of
towners - could find it if there was a fire anywhere in town?

Would a single pay phone solve the issue that you are concerned about?


I'm on the same page. If you really
need to call 911 in a small town, you can certainly bang on
someone's door. Likely doors are going to be easier to find when
you've just had a serious accident or have an axe murderer chasing
you, than a pay phone. The real big hole is when you're traveling
in the middle of nowhere, hiking, etc and there is neither cell
phone coverage, nor anyone living nearby that has phone service.
The odd thing is that in a small town like that, you would think
there would still be at least one pay phone left from years gone
by. I'm going to start paying attention to where there are or
aren't payphones around here today, just for the heck of it.

On 10/16/2015 7:05 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The next question would be if it will be easily seen. I go
through small (under 500 population) towns frequently. The pay phones
were just a little box hanging on the pole in some. Only one had the
traditional phone booth. Finding a phone in the dark would be
problematic.
Can one call 911 free from these phones? Will there be signs
saying so?
I think Nebraska has a law requiring the phone company to keep
one pay phone in each town.
Remember Lily Tomlin?

Years ago, I heard that a cell phone with no paid
contract (the old one that I used to use....) will
call 911, even if I can't make regular calls cause
I don't have a paid carrier. Well, if there is a
working cell tower within range.

Decided to test the information. I got my old cell
which no longer had contract or paid service. Dialed
911 (I'm in area with good cell signal from the
towers). A couple seconds later, a voice from far
away answered. I could barely hear, probably operator
with the microphone pointed towards her adams apple.
I explained what I was doing, and the reason for the
call, cell phone test. She asked my name and phone
number, and I answered honestly. Asked where I was,
and I also answered honestly. About half hour later,
two cops arrived at my place to check on me. We chatted
for a while, and I told them what was going on. Offered
to show them the phone I'd used (which was now in the
back of my van). I apologized several times for wasting
thier time.

Since that time, I've kept an old cell phone in my
vehicle, with battery and car charger. Would have done
no good in the case of the restaurant fire, but some day
I may use it to report a fire in a cell signal area.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 10/16/2015 8:07 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 12:20:04 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I could, and probably should have knocked on doors and hopefully woken
someone up (it was 2am). But waking someone up, if it was just a smoking
chinmey was like "crying wolf".

No, it's not. Crying wolf is defined as "To raise a false alarm, to ask for
assistance when you don't need it, and by extension, to exaggerate or lie."

If this incident is true (What town was this in?) then you had a legitimate
concern and would not have been "crying wolf" if you had woken people up.
Would it have been crying wolf if you had been able to call 911 via your
cell or a pay phone? If a bar had been open and you reported it there,
would it have been crying wolf? No, in both cases.



A big cloud of smoke over a building in the
middle of the night. I'd call that a very real
concern.

We also don't know what season of the year. July
and cloud of smoke .... wake people. February and
snow on the ground "could" be a wood burning stove.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 10/15/2015 6:47 PM, M.L. wrote:


Normally, I would have called 911 and suggested that they come and check
that building, and told them I dont see any actual fire, but it looks
suspicious. But I could not use my cellphone to make the call.

By the way, the fire began in the attic and was caused by electrical
issues. Becase of a metal roof, it remained concealed.

So it appears having a cellphone wouldn't have made a difference.


I wasn't there, but I used to be a volunteer
FF. It is very possible that a good FD might
have saved the building, or much of the
building.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 7:20:49 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/16/2015 7:05 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
The next question would be if it will be easily seen. I go
through small (under 500 population) towns frequently. The pay phones
were just a little box hanging on the pole in some. Only one had the
traditional phone booth. Finding a phone in the dark would be
problematic.
Can one call 911 free from these phones? Will there be signs
saying so?
I think Nebraska has a law requiring the phone company to keep
one pay phone in each town.
Remember Lily Tomlin?

Years ago, I heard that a cell phone with no paid
contract (the old one that I used to use....) will
call 911, even if I can't make regular calls cause
I don't have a paid carrier. Well, if there is a
working cell tower within range.

Decided to test the information. I got my old cell
which no longer had contract or paid service. Dialed
911 (I'm in area with good cell signal from the
towers). A couple seconds later, a voice from far
away answered. I could barely hear, probably operator
with the microphone pointed towards her adams apple.
I explained what I was doing, and the reason for the
call, cell phone test. She asked my name and phone
number, and I answered honestly. Asked where I was,
and I also answered honestly. About half hour later,
two cops arrived at my place to check on me. We chatted
for a while, and I told them what was going on. Offered
to show them the phone I'd used (which was now in the
back of my van). I apologized several times for wasting
thier time.

Since that time, I've kept an old cell phone in my
vehicle, with battery and car charger. Would have done
no good in the case of the restaurant fire, but some day
I may use it to report a fire in a cell signal area.


IMO, that is a real problem that should be looked into to
see if there is a reasonable solution. There is no way to
know if 911 works before you need it. And today people think
they are connected all kinds of ways, via God knows how many
different VOIP systems, for example. They have you register
your address for 911 service, but who knows if that is
actually in there correctly, gets to where it needs to go
when you make a 911 call, etc.

On 10/16/2015 12:03 AM, philo wrote:

One day I was driving and just saw a stop sign down.

Knew it was unsafe but not necessarily an emergency...
but how to find the right number to call?

I decided to call 911 and report it...
turns out that was the right thing to do.



One lesson I learned long ago :


err on the side of caution

That is good advice. There might not be a
HUGE chance of some thing going wrong, but
the "go wrong" can be lethal or hospital
grade.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 7:29:42 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:


One friend of mine got an old computer from an
attorney at her office. She was horrified to
find all kinds of personal legal documents he
had left on it. Suits, torts, and such.

I think it's a great idea to reformat and wipe
computer drives before passing them along.

-

Hillary probably wishes she had you working for her.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 04:18:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote in


The real big hole is when you're traveling
in the middle of nowhere, hiking, etc and there is neither cell
phone coverage, nor anyone living nearby that has phone service.

If that frightens you, you should seriously consider never leaving the
house.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 10/17/2015 08:27 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 04:18:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote in


The real big hole is when you're traveling
in the middle of nowhere, hiking, etc and there is neither cell
phone coverage, nor anyone living nearby that has phone service.

If that frightens you, you should seriously consider never leaving the
house.


Here in the USA, you'd need a pay-phone installed every 100 feet because that's all most people can walk.

I think it's a great idea to reformat and wipe
computer drives before passing them along.

"Wiping" is the critical step, as reformatting can still leave old data on
the drive.

Unfortunately, you can't really wipe SSD drives. Thanks to load balancing,
the sectors you use one time will probably not be used the next time you
write to the drive. Traditional wiping doesn't work, and isn't recommended
as it just wears out the drive faster. I believe many (all?) SSD's have a
kind of hardware "master reset" that will theoretically wipe the entire
drive, but I'm not sure what steps/software is able to do that.

I'm not aware of any way to selectively remove sensitive data from an SSD
drive (without wiping the entire drive)?

I always encrypt my sensitive data (financial records, health records,
etc.).

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:24:59 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I think it's a great idea to reformat and wipe
computer drives before passing them along.

"Wiping" is the critical step, as reformatting can still leave old data on
the drive.

Unfortunately, you can't really wipe SSD drives. Thanks to load balancing,
the sectors you use one time will probably not be used the next time you
write to the drive. Traditional wiping doesn't work, and isn't recommended
as it just wears out the drive faster. I believe many (all?) SSD's have a
kind of hardware "master reset" that will theoretically wipe the entire
drive, but I'm not sure what steps/software is able to do that.

I'm not aware of any way to selectively remove sensitive data from an SSD
drive (without wiping the entire drive)?

I always encrypt my sensitive data (financial records, health records,
etc.).

Create a trash directory and fill it with trash data until the drive
is full, then erase the trash directory.
You can use a simple DOS batch file to do this.
If the trash data file is the about the same as the block size,
nothing useful will be left.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

I think it's a great idea to reformat and wipe computer drives before
passing them along.

I do the same thing with toilet paper.

On 10/17/2015 07:39 AM, Corpulent wrote:


Here in the USA, you'd need a pay-phone installed every 100 feet because
that's all most people can walk.

Here, you could walk around the block and pass 16 pay phones (if there
was one every 100 feet).

Really, there MIGHT be a pay phone within 1.5 miles of here. I know
there used to be a few (Kroger, and one at a gas station).

--
69 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Humans share 98.4 per cent of their DNA with the chimpanzee species."

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:49:11 -0400, wrote:

Standard practice at many firms is to remove and DESTROY the hard
drive of every machine as it is de-commissioned. I have a large
accummulation of hard drive magnets from destroying decommissioned
hard drives.

It may have Dateline on NBC, don't recall. About firms recycling copy
machines with HDDs and selling them overseas. Law firms, medical
offices and such. Tremendous amounts of private information. I have a
stack of rare earth magnets here

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:17:30 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:49:11 -0400, wrote:

Standard practice at many firms is to remove and DESTROY the hard
drive of every machine as it is de-commissioned. I have a large
accummulation of hard drive magnets from destroying decommissioned
hard drives.

It may have Dateline on NBC, don't recall. About firms recycling copy
machines with HDDs and selling them overseas. Law firms, medical
offices and such. Tremendous amounts of private information. I have a
stack of rare earth magnets here

There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.
The tool takes a while to run but you can crank it up and go home.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:43:35 -0400, wrote:

There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.
The tool takes a while to run but you can crank it up and go home.

Got a tool name? I have a drive where the BIOS will not see it, yet I
tried numerous times. I'd like to save it but I can't get access to it
or the data. The ones I destroy and save magnets from are ones I've
pounded (not literally) on trying to get to the data that failed.

I'd like such a tool.

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 21:11:51 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

provide cell phone service to that town. How do we even know they
really don't already have it? Could be the carrier the OP has doesn't
have service there, his phone is configured to roam, etc.


The Sheriffs and Fire Dept. acknowledge there is no service. A cell
tower was to be built 4 years ago. A few months ago, they decided to
abandon it, and move it to another small town, claiming it will still
serve the town where the fire occured. Even the authorities said they
doubt it will help since the planned location of the new tower will be
12 miles away. Even so, there is no planned date to build the tower, and
it could be many more years ????

Even if they started to build a tower tomorrow, in the meantime there is
still no emergency service. A payphone can probably be installed in an
hour or two (or less).

You ignored my earlier reply about you paying for a payphone yourself
to help those poor, abused citizens, why is that? One would think you
are that towns' only hope of communicating with the outside world.

Please, open your wallet and help those victimized residents that
cannot help themselves. It's your civic duty.

Let us know how you saved them when you have.

Right now, payphones, or one of those 911 ONLY type of outdoor phones,
are the only option. (Or a call box, but those are REALLY obsolete).

It will be nice if they ever build a cell tower, but until then, a means
to call 911 is most important.

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 12:11:21 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:24:59 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

I think it's a great idea to reformat and wipe
computer drives before passing them along.

"Wiping" is the critical step, as reformatting can still leave old data on
the drive.

Unfortunately, you can't really wipe SSD drives. Thanks to load balancing,
the sectors you use one time will probably not be used the next time you
write to the drive. Traditional wiping doesn't work, and isn't recommended
as it just wears out the drive faster. I believe many (all?) SSD's have a
kind of hardware "master reset" that will theoretically wipe the entire
drive, but I'm not sure what steps/software is able to do that.

I'm not aware of any way to selectively remove sensitive data from an SSD
drive (without wiping the entire drive)?

I always encrypt my sensitive data (financial records, health records,
etc.).

Create a trash directory and fill it with trash data until the drive
is full, then erase the trash directory.
You can use a simple DOS batch file to do this.
If the trash data file is the about the same as the block size,
nothing useful will be left.

There are plenty of free utilities online that will wipe the freespace
or the whole drive using your choice of methods, everything from
one overwrite to multiple random data overwrites to DOD spec.

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 3:43:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:


There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.
The tool takes a while to run but you can crank it up and go home.

+1

That's what I said in reply to your previous post, before I saw
this one. It's certainly adequate for typical home or small
business user. There are free ones that will wipe to DOD standards
too.

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:55:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:43:35 -0400, wrote:

There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.
The tool takes a while to run but you can crank it up and go home.

Got a tool name? I have a drive where the BIOS will not see it, yet I
tried numerous times. I'd like to save it but I can't get access to it
or the data. The ones I destroy and save magnets from are ones I've
pounded (not literally) on trying to get to the data that failed.

I'd like such a tool.

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.
The easiest way to wipe a drive is with the manufacturer's "write all
ones" program on the diagnostic disk.
If you just want to overwrite the unused sectors, fill the disk with
trash using a DOS batch file.
Something on the lines of
:start
MD trash
CD trash
copy some big file
:goto start.

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 6:20:49 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Years ago, I heard that a cell phone with no paid
contract (the old one that I used to use....) will
call 911, even if I can't make regular calls cause
I don't have a paid carrier. Well, if there is a
working cell tower within range.

Decided to test the information. I got my old cell
which no longer had contract or paid service. Dialed
911 (I'm in area with good cell signal from the
towers). A couple seconds later, a voice from far
away answered. I could barely hear, probably operator
with the microphone pointed towards her adams apple.
I explained what I was doing, and the reason for the
call, cell phone test. She asked my name and phone
number, and I answered honestly. Asked where I was,
and I also answered honestly. About half hour later,
two cops arrived at my place to check on me. We chatted
for a while, and I told them what was going on. Offered
to show them the phone I'd used (which was now in the
back of my van). I apologized several times for wasting
thier time.

Since that time, I've kept an old cell phone in my
vehicle, with battery and car charger. Would have done
no good in the case of the restaurant fire, but some day
I may use it to report a fire in a cell signal area.
-
.
Me and my brother each have old 1st generation Nokia digital cellphones from TracFone that haven't been used for several years and the phones are still active through the year 2020. They make great glove compartment emergency backup phones. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Phone Monster

IF YOU CAN SPECIFY WHAT TOWN THAT IS SORRY YOU ARE LIAR

wrote in message ...

A small rural town in the Midwest has no cellphone signal at all. Last
week I was driving thru that town and developed vehicle problems, late
at night. The only businesses that might have been open that late would
have been taverns, but they were closed.

I grabbed my cell intending to call a friend to come help me, but I got
"NO SERVICE". I grabbed my tools, popped open the hood, and began trying
to find the problem. That's when I noticed smoke coming across the roof
of a restaurant building. At first I thought it was just a chimney from
a wood stove or something like that, and the smoke was just rolling
across the roof. (It was cold that night). But just to be sure, I
grabbed my flashlight and walked over to the building and looked around.
I saw no flames, so I just assumed it was a chimney, but I could not see
any chimney either, since the smoke was covering my view of the roof,
with only a flashlight.

I went back to working on my car, and occasionally looked at that roof.
The smoke seemed to be getting less, so I just figured it was just a
chimney. One and a half hours later I was able to find the car problem,
which was repairable and did not require any new parts to get home
(corroded electrical connection). I got my car running, and looked at
that building one more time, and still saw no flames or sign of any
actual fire. I was tired and glad to have my car running again, and I
drove home, knowing that the next day I'd do a more permanent repair on
my car.

The next morning I went to the auto parts store to get what I needed,
and told the guy how I had gotten stranded in that small town last
night. He said "did you see the huge fire there?" I asked what burned.
He said the restaurant burned to the ground. I later found that someone
called in the fire about 3 hours after I initially saw the smoke. I
nearly became sick to my stomach after he told me.

Normally, I would have called 911 and suggested that they come and check
that building, and told them I dont see any actual fire, but it looks
suspicious. But I could not use my cellphone to make the call. If I had
seen an actual fire, I would have banged on house doors and hopefully
woke someone up, but I did not want to wake someone up because of smoke
coming from a chimney.

Ive felt sort of sick about this ever since, but even more angry because
that town has no means of calling for help in an emergency. Until 3 or 4
years ago, there was a payphone there, but that's now gone. So, to make
myself feel better, I called the phone company and asked them why the
payphone was removed. They said payphones are obsolete. I did not hold
back when I said "OBSOLETE MY ASS, WHEN THERE IS NO CELLPHONE SERVICE
THERE. THERE WAS ALREADY A BUILDING LOST, MUST SOMEONE DIE BEFORE
SOMETHING IS DONE?". I told the same thing to the sheriffs and fire
chief when I told them what I saw.

We supposedly have all this high technology these days. We have all
these laws to protect us from every damn thing, such as seatbelt laws,
smoking restrictions, product alerts over lead, and all sorts of other
toxics, and the list goes on. But are we really any safer? Maybe the
big cities are, but not these rural areas. They are worse off than they
used to be. There is no excuse that payphone can not still be there. Who
cares if it's obsolete. It's NOT OBSOLETE when that is all that can be
used in a town like that.

Anyhow, I do not and will not accept that answer. I have now contacted
some of the top politicians in the state and county, and will continue
to persue this until something is done. I was told they plan to install
a cellphone tower, but I found that was planned 4 years ago, and nothing
has been done. I said, "even if they do eventually build a cell tower,
what happens until then?" JUST PUT THE DAMN PAYPHONE BACK!
I'm sure the phone companies have lots of unused payphones, and all it
takes is a half hour of time and a few screws and some wire to connect
it. Why is that so difficult??????

By the way, the fire began in the attic and was caused by electrical
issues. Becase of a metal roof, it remained concealed.

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 8:32:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 12:55:10 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:43:35 -0400, wrote:

There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.
The tool takes a while to run but you can crank it up and go home.

Got a tool name? I have a drive where the BIOS will not see it, yet I
tried numerous times. I'd like to save it but I can't get access to it
or the data. The ones I destroy and save magnets from are ones I've
pounded (not literally) on trying to get to the data that failed.

I'd like such a tool.

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?






The easiest way to wipe a drive is with the manufacturer's "write all
ones" program on the diagnostic disk.
If you just want to overwrite the unused sectors, fill the disk with
trash using a DOS batch file.
Something on the lines of
:start
MD trash
CD trash
copy some big file
:goto start.

To wipe a drive, either free space or whole thing, I use CCleaner Free.
There used to be some free low level utilities online that would activate
the on drive erase function too. What's doing with the newer drives, IDK.

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 7:18:30 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 11:32:35 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 10:12:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

provide cell phone service to that town. How do we even know they
really don't already have it? Could be the carrier the OP has doesn't
have service there, his phone is configured to roam, etc.


The Sheriffs and Fire Dept. acknowledge there is no service. A cell
tower was to be built 4 years ago. A few months ago, they decided to
abandon it, and move it to another small town, claiming it will still
serve the town where the fire occured. Even the authorities said they
doubt it will help since the planned location of the new tower will be
12 miles away. Even so, there is no planned date to build the tower, and
it could be many more years ????

Even if they started to build a tower tomorrow, in the meantime there is
still no emergency service. A payphone can probably be installed in an
hour or two (or less).

I asked this before and didn't see an answer, so I'll try again.

How small is this town? Can they put the pay phone someplace where everyone - even out of
towners - could find it if there was a fire anywhere in town?

Would a single pay phone solve the issue that you are concerned about?


I'm on the same page.

Do you think it's time to officially call BS on this story?

It sure seems suspicious that he won't address my simple question related getting that pay
phone reinstalled.

Maybe the fire story is true (the name of the town or a link to a news story would settle that) but
Perhaps he finally realizes that a single pay phone isn't going to be the solution for an entire
town, regardless of how small it is.

On 2015-10-17, wrote:
There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.

There is something very satifying about taking a BFH to a drive.
Kind of like Elvis shooting a pistol at a row of TV sets.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 9:22:15 AM UTC-4, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2015-10-17, wrote:
There are plenty of tools out there that will wipe a drive. It is just
irrational paranoia that has people destroying them.

There is something very satifying about taking a BFH to a drive.
Kind of like Elvis shooting a pistol at a row of TV sets.



Yes, assuming the drive is shot or otherwise of little value.
But people and businesses do donate PCs to charities where they
are re-used, etc.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 11:59:48 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.
IF the data is valuable, there are data recovery places that can pull
the data off a dead drive as ,long as the plates themselves are not
destroyed. Not cheap though!!

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:27:14 -0400, wrote:

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.

IF the data is valuable, there are data recovery places that can pull
the data off a dead drive as ,long as the plates themselves are not
destroyed. Not cheap though!!

I'm aware of that. A boat fire, on the Amazon River, a laptop had data
recovered from the river bed -- at great expense. I'm not interested.

A federal agency once put a 5.25 inch floppy back together using
scotch tape and was able to read it again. Over my head.

Those guys are smart.

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.

Keep in mind, when drive looks bad, nothing to lose at this point. Open
it up, some times head is parked stuck. little logic module in there is
shot, head assembly could be bad. etc. At times data salvaging is
possible. Practice regular scheduled back up like a religion.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:39:27 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.

Keep in mind, when drive looks bad, nothing to lose at this point. Open
it up, some times head is parked stuck. little logic module in there is
shot, head assembly could be bad. etc. At times data salvaging is
possible. Practice regular scheduled back up like a religion.

If this is not seen by the controller opening the HDA is not going to
help. You might have some luck swapping the logic card if you have an
identical drive.
That was a common thing to do on the old IBM "lightning" drives when
your AS/400 OS was out there.

On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 6:54:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:39:27 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.

Keep in mind, when drive looks bad, nothing to lose at this point. Open
it up, some times head is parked stuck. little logic module in there is
shot, head assembly could be bad. etc. At times data salvaging is
possible. Practice regular scheduled back up like a religion.

If this is not seen by the controller opening the HDA is not going to
help. You might have some luck swapping the logic card if you have an
identical drive.
That was a common thing to do on the old IBM "lightning" drives when
your AS/400 OS was out there.

Agree. I'm wondering if he verified that another drive connected to
the same cable works? That would rule out any cable/power issue. He
did say that it has power. Also, I recall that when you have 2 drives
on the same cable, one had to be jumpered as master, one as slave.
IDK if they still do that or not. I guess the last part is moot if it
was working at one time exactly where it's now being tested. All in all,
sounds like it probably is the drive.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 18:54:36 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:39:27 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

If BIOS doesn't see he drive and the controller is on line, the drive
is bad.

Unless maybe it's an older PC with a newer drive. I remember on one
of mine, when the drives went to a higher number of cylinders, the
BIOS no longer supported it. But I think even with that issue, the
PC still saw it, just wouldn't work with it. But I agree, most likely
the drive is bad. Is he sure he has power on the cable to the drive?

I can assure you the drive is bad. Same PC, tried on different
controllers and yes the power plug was in. The drive died and a new
one was installed. I've held out hope I could get it recognized and
get the data off. Looks like I get some more rare earth magnets when
I finally pull them out.

Keep in mind, when drive looks bad, nothing to lose at this point. Open
it up, some times head is parked stuck. little logic module in there is
shot, head assembly could be bad. etc. At times data salvaging is
possible. Practice regular scheduled back up like a religion.

If this is not seen by the controller opening the HDA is not going to
help. You might have some luck swapping the logic card if you have an
identical drive.
That was a common thing to do on the old IBM "lightning" drives when
your AS/400 OS was out there.
I worked for the largest distributor (at the time) of hard drives in
Canada. There were a LOT of "stillborn" drives, and a lot of "infant
mortalitiy" so we ended up with a pretty big pile of dud drives. I
sorted the drives by model, then took one known good circuit board and
installed it on each drive, one at a time, to determine if the
physical drive was good or bad.. The circuit boards from defective
drives were then run through a test by putting them on a known good
drive to sort out the boards that were dead on dead drives. Then I put
the good boards on the good drives, and put them on a burn-in test for
a couple days to make sure they didn't fail.

Today's drives, in many cases, cannot be salvaged that way because the
"firmware" for the drive is burned on certain sectors of the drive,
and must match code on the board. The entire "drive controller" is
integrated on the board, unlike the old RLL andMFM type drives of
yesteryear. Cannot swap the board from a good drive onto a failed
drive and make the drive work.. Mabee it's just that what fails is
the code on the drive instead of the board? Not sure - but I have
NEVER succeeded in restoring a late model (SATA) drive by swapping
boards - and only very very occaisionally succeeded with an IDE drive.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:02:57 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Agree. I'm wondering if he verified that another drive connected to
the same cable works? That would rule out any cable/power issue. He
did say that it has power. Also, I recall that when you have 2 drives
on the same cable, one had to be jumpered as master, one as slave.
IDK if they still do that or not. I guess the last part is moot if it
was working at one time exactly where it's now being tested. All in all,
sounds like it probably is the drive.

If it means anything, The drive is dead. Been through ever effort to
revive it -- it cannot be read or recognized, or any utility to make
it happen.

I verified all possible options. I am, self trained so know what
works or doesn't.