I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile. I'm not looking for
something that adds structural strength (reinforcement) to the tile,
but it's a nice bonus. I'm guessing to trowel the mixture on to the
exterior walls (14' high?), wait for the mixture to cure, then use
something like a Wagner sprayer to paint it all white.

What I don't know is:

- what material to use
- is this a good idea
- is there some other approach I should consider

TIA

Mike

Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile. I'm not looking for
something that adds structural strength (reinforcement) to the tile,
but it's a nice bonus. I'm guessing to trowel the mixture on to the
exterior walls (14' high?), wait for the mixture to cure, then use
something like a Wagner sprayer to paint it all white.

What I don't know is:

- what material to use
- is this a good idea
- is there some other approach I should consider

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is it on
and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more logical to
fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only place wasps could
enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some cementatious material
over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

"dadiOH" wrote in message ...

Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile. I'm not looking for
something that adds structural strength (reinforcement) to the tile,
but it's a nice bonus. I'm guessing to trowel the mixture on to the
exterior walls (14' high?), wait for the mixture to cure, then use
something like a Wagner sprayer to paint it all white.

What I don't know is:

- what material to use
- is this a good idea
- is there some other approach I should consider

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is it on
and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more logical to
fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only place wasps could
enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some cementatious material
over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.


You could send the Navy jets in to bomb it.

On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile. I'm not looking for
something that adds structural strength (reinforcement) to the tile,
but it's a nice bonus. I'm guessing to trowel the mixture on to the
exterior walls (14' high?), wait for the mixture to cure, then use
something like a Wagner sprayer to paint it all white.

What I don't know is:

- what material to use
- is this a good idea
- is there some other approach I should consider

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is it on
and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more logical to
fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only place wasps could
enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some cementatious material
over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

I suppose the tile is ceramic, though I've not thought about it.
The tile is more like brick, but larger and of a different design.

Mike wrote:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile. I'm not looking for
something that adds structural strength (reinforcement) to the tile,
but it's a nice bonus. I'm guessing to trowel the mixture on to the
exterior walls (14' high?), wait for the mixture to cure, then use
something like a Wagner sprayer to paint it all white.

What I don't know is:

- what material to use
- is this a good idea
- is there some other approach I should consider

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is
it on and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more
logical to fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only
place wasps could enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some
cementatious material over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

I suppose the tile is ceramic, though I've not thought about it.
The tile is more like brick, but larger and of a different design.

Brick veneer? if so, I suppose - suppose, don't know - that you could
stucco over that assuming it is well bonded to whatever it is on. It would
still make more sense to fix the grout joints IMO, YMMV.

Step #1, ask a mason.

How about a nuclear missile strike?
Er...........duh?

In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is
it on and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more
logical to fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only
place wasps could enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some
cementatious material over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

I suppose the tile is ceramic, though I've not thought about it.
The tile is more like brick, but larger and of a different design.

Any chance that you could post a photo or two using a site like
http://tinypic.com -- maybe a wide angle shot and a close up shot?

It is hard to tell what you have there now from what you have written so
far. And, without really knowing what is there now, it would be hard to
suggest what will or will not work for what you want to achieve.

In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is
it on and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more
logical to fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only
place wasps could enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some
cementatious material over ceramic tile without first attaching
lath. Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

I suppose the tile is ceramic, though I've not thought about it.
The tile is more like brick, but larger and of a different design.

Any chance that you could post a photo or two using a site like
http://tinypic.com -- maybe a wide angle shot and a close up shot?

It is hard to tell what you have there now from what you have written
so far. And, without really knowing what is there now, it would be
hard to suggest what will or will not work for what you want to
achieve.

P.S. What does the "tile" look like? What color is it? What shape and
size is it? Is it glazed like ceramic tile, or maybe a "flat" finish?

This sounds like the standard construction method we saw in Germany.

They called it tile, but it was sort of a huge red brick, like half of a cinder block, basically cube shaped. Rather than a couple of big holes in the center, these had smaller flat channels.

They were laid up like you would with concrete block, then commonly plastered on the interior walls and stuccoed on the exterior. That gave perfect control of infiltration, there is no better way to seal a wall than plaster.

To run electrical you'd rout a channel and then plaster over.

In ,
TimR typed:
This sounds like the standard construction method we saw in Germany.

They called it tile, but it was sort of a huge red brick, like half
of a cinder block, basically cube shaped. Rather than a couple of
big holes in the center, these had smaller flat channels.

They were laid up like you would with concrete block, then commonly
plastered on the interior walls and stuccoed on the exterior. That
gave perfect control of infiltration, there is no better way to seal
a wall than plaster.

To run electrical you'd rout a channel and then plaster over.

I own a property that I think has the same as what you are describing , or
is something similar. It is in the U.S.A., in New Jersey. I call it
terracotta, but I don't know what the correct name is. It is a side-by-side
twin home -- I own the house on one side and someone else owns the house on
the other side.

All of the exterior walls and the party wall are made of these "terracotta"
blocks that are stacked on top of each other with mortar in between. The
exterior of the house is stucco right over the "terracotta" blocks. And the
interior walls are plaster -- a rough coat and then a finish coat -- applied
directly to the "terracotta" blocks.

Here is a photo from the inside of the party wall that divides the two
houses.
http://i62.tinypic.com/2e0l1ud.jpg



The photo is of a chimney in the center, and then on either side of the
chimney is the "terracotta" party wall. In this one area, there are some
wood studs to frame out that area around the chimney, but in the rest of the
house there is no wood framing. And, in this photo, the blue paint and the
old flowery wallpaper are on top of the plaster wall that is plastered
directly onto the "terracotta".

Do you know about how old the house is? I would guess that it was built before 1930, maybe even before 1920.

On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 12:41:09 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:

The photo is of a chimney in the center, and then on either side of the
chimney is the "terracotta" party wall. In this one area, there are some
wood studs to frame out that area around the chimney, but in the rest of the
house there is no wood framing. And, in this photo, the blue paint and the
old flowery wallpaper are on top of the plaster wall that is plastered
directly onto the "terracotta".

Yes, that looks very similar to what they still use in Germany.

It is very energy efficient, there is no infiltration possible. In fact you have to open windows to let humidity out.

In ,
TimR typed:
On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 12:41:09 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:

The photo is of a chimney in the center, and then on either side of
the chimney is the "terracotta" party wall. In this one area, there
are some wood studs to frame out that area around the chimney, but
in the rest of the house there is no wood framing. And, in this
photo, the blue paint and the old flowery wallpaper are on top of
the plaster wall that is plastered directly onto the "terracotta".

Yes, that looks very similar to what they still use in Germany.

It is very energy efficient, there is no infiltration possible. In
fact you have to open windows to let humidity out.

Thanks. I was curious if what I have is similar to what you have seen in
Germany.

In my house, the exterior walls and the party wall between the two homes do
not allow any infiltration. But, I am not sure how energy efficient they
are since they seem to conduct heat rather than prevent heat flow the way
that ordinary insulation does. I don't know much about any of that, so it's
just a guess on my part. And, as you mentioned, the solid
brick/"terracotta"(?) walls make running wires and plumbing difficult.

I am getting ready to do a complete rehab and a new floor plan layout in my
house. At this point, the house has been completely gutted, all of the
interior walls have been removed, and all of the plumbing and electric has
been removed except for the plumbing drain stack. There is a new electric
service panel. My plan is to frame out all of the exterior walls and the
party wall with 2x4's adjacent to the original brick/"terracotta" walls. I
will be insulating the framed out walls and also using the framed walls to
run plumbing and electric within the new walls. I will also be doing all
new "frame out" windows by removing the original windows, window frames, and
interior window trim. The original heating system was hot water cast iron
radiator heat which included a lot of large cooper pipes in the basement.
Criminals kindly broke in while the house was vacant and stole all of the
copper plumbing which now means I have an option of either keeping the
original cast iron heating (by replacing pipes etc) or going with an all new
natural gas central HVAC system. I'll probably do the central HVAC at this
point.

On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is
it on and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more
logical to fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only
place wasps could enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some
cementatious material over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

I suppose the tile is ceramic, though I've not thought about it.
The tile is more like brick, but larger and of a different design.

Any chance that you could post a photo or two using a site like
http://tinypic.com -- maybe a wide angle shot and a close up shot?

It is hard to tell what you have there now from what you have written so
far. And, without really knowing what is there now, it would be hard to
suggest what will or will not work for what you want to achieve.



Tom,

This is the first time I've used tinypic and somehow have the images
upside down. Sorry about that. Here are the links of the tile:

http://tinypic.com/r/akejgg/8

http://tinypic.com/r/rh057o/8

http://tinypic.com/r/ay0ye/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2hoipzo/8

I don't know if the tile is ceramic. I'm calling it "tile", but I
don't know if that's what it is. It's not a "normal" Acme brick.

Mike

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 7:31:42 PM UTC-5, Mike wrote:
On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The idea
I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like plaster
or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter the tile,
etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

Are you talking about ceramic tile? If so, how thick is it, what is
it on and where are the wasps going? Also if so, it would seem more
logical to fix any deteriorated grout (which would be about the only
place wasps could enter). You wouldn't be able to just slather some
cementatious material over ceramic tile without first attaching lath.

Without further info, I would say it is a terrible idea.

I suppose the tile is ceramic, though I've not thought about it.
The tile is more like brick, but larger and of a different design.

Any chance that you could post a photo or two using a site like
http://tinypic.com -- maybe a wide angle shot and a close up shot?

It is hard to tell what you have there now from what you have written so
far. And, without really knowing what is there now, it would be hard to
suggest what will or will not work for what you want to achieve.



Tom,

This is the first time I've used tinypic and somehow have the images
upside down. Sorry about that. Here are the links of the tile:

http://tinypic.com/r/akejgg/8

http://tinypic.com/r/rh057o/8

http://tinypic.com/r/ay0ye/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2hoipzo/8

I don't know if the tile is ceramic. I'm calling it "tile", but I
don't know if that's what it is. It's not a "normal" Acme brick.

Mike

You must be in Australia because those pictures look upside down to me. ^_^

I rented an old building that had walls made from that stuff and it acted like it was insulated because of the air chambers. The place stayed fairly warm in the winter even though there was no heat in the warehouse area. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Tile Monster

On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 9:29:00 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
just a guess on my part. And, as you mentioned, the solid
brick/"terracotta"(?) walls make running wires and plumbing difficult.


Plumbing is difficult, electrical not so much.

They just rout a channel in the plaster, slap in the wires, and plaster over. Sort of like invisible surface mount.

The nice thing is they had an absolute convention on where to run wires. Wires ALWAYS ran vertically from an outlet, and were never anywhere else, so if you needed to drill a wall you could be 100% sure not to hit one. (or horizontally - but always straight)

Of course, we knew people who ignored that and put a nail through a wire, but there's always that 5% who didn't get the memo.

In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The
idea I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like
plaster or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter
the tile, etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

Any chance that you could post a photo or two using a site like
http://tinypic.com -- maybe a wide angle shot and a close up shot?

It is hard to tell what you have there now from what you have
written so far. And, without really knowing what is there now, it
would be hard to suggest what will or will not work for what you
want to achieve.

This is the first time I've used tinypic and somehow have the images
upside down. Sorry about that. Here are the links of the tile:

http://tinypic.com/r/akejgg/8

http://tinypic.com/r/rh057o/8

http://tinypic.com/r/ay0ye/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2hoipzo/8

I don't know if the tile is ceramic. I'm calling it "tile", but I
don't know if that's what it is. It's not a "normal" Acme brick.


Thanks for the photos. That really helps. They basically look like the
same type of "terracotta"-type brick that I have in a house that I own in
New Jersey. And, I think that they probably look like what "TimR" (no
relation) wrote about that he has seen in Germany. I call them "terracotta"
but I don't know what the real name is.

One note about your photos: When I click on each photo, I see a link in the
lower left corner that says, "View Raw Image". When I click on the "View
Raw Image" link, the photo appears right side up. I don't know why, but it
works for me.

I am almost certain that you can just apply stucco directly to the surface
of these "terracotta" bricks. I don't think you would need to add any kind
of wire mesh etc. first to do the stucco. But, I don't know for sure and
you should ask a stucco or masonry person in your area to be sure. I am
pretty sure that the stucco on the exterior of my house is applied directly
to the bricks on the exterior -- but I haven't checked. On the interior of
my house, I do know that rough coat plaster is applied directly to the
"terracotta" bricks with no wire mesh, and then a finish coat of plaster is
applied over that.

Now that I am curious, I'll have to do some Google searching to see if I can
find out more.

P.S. I would say that what you have is definitely not ceramic tile and I
wouldn't use the term "tile" at all to describe them. To me, they are some
type of hollow brick or block, but I don't know what they are called.

In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The
idea I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like
plaster or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter
the tile, etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

This is the first time I've used tinypic and somehow have the images
upside down. Sorry about that. Here are the links of the tile:

http://tinypic.com/r/akejgg/8

http://tinypic.com/r/rh057o/8

http://tinypic.com/r/ay0ye/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2hoipzo/8

I don't know if the tile is ceramic. I'm calling it "tile", but I
don't know if that's what it is. It's not a "normal" Acme brick.

If you do a Google search for --- terracotta blocks building --- and
then click on Google Images, you'll see lots of examples.

Also, check out this website:
http://historicbldgs.com/terra_cotta.htm

In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The
idea I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like
plaster or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps enter
the tile, etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . . ,

This is the first time I've used tinypic and somehow have the images
upside down. Sorry about that. Here are the links of the tile:

http://tinypic.com/r/akejgg/8

http://tinypic.com/r/rh057o/8

http://tinypic.com/r/ay0ye/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2hoipzo/8

I don't know if the tile is ceramic. I'm calling it "tile", but I
don't know if that's what it is. It's not a "normal" Acme brick.

Also, check out this website:
http://historicbldgs.com/terra_cotta.htm

Interesting, I just noticed on the website above that it says,

"Structural Terra Cotta" by Bill Kibbel

"Also known as hollow structural tile, hollow tile block, hollow building
tile, structural clay tile and structural clay load-bearing wall tile."

So, I guess that people do call it "tile" in one form or another. That's a
new one for me.

In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The
idea I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like
plaster or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps
enter the tile, etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . .

Also, check out this website:
http://historicbldgs.com/terra_cotta.htm

Interesting, I just noticed on the website above that it says,

"Structural Terra Cotta" by Bill Kibbel

"Also known as hollow structural tile, hollow tile block, hollow
building tile, structural clay tile and structural clay load-bearing
wall tile."
So, I guess that people do call it "tile" in one form or another. That's a
new one for me.

And, I just noticed that the website also says,

"The grooves, or ribbing, is on four sides of the "shell" to help mortar,
plaster and stucco adhere to the surface. When used above grade, the
interior has plaster directly applied and the exterior is often coated with
stucco. These are not vitrified or glazed. If exposed to the weather, they
can deteriorate."

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 10:22:05 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:

I am almost certain that you can just apply stucco directly to the surface
of these "terracotta" bricks. I don't think you would need to add any kind
of wire mesh etc. first to do the stucco. But, I don't know for sure and

I saw lots of older buildings with the stucco being repaired. Very definitely there was no mesh, the stucco was troweled on.

On 2015-07-04, wrote:

Do you know about how old the house is? I would guess that it was built before 1930, maybe even before 1920.

I don't know how old. I have pictures of me as an infant with the
structure in the background, so that's 50+ years. A relative tells
me the structure is at least 70 years. That would make it 1940s or
earlier.

Mike

On 2015-07-07, TomR wrote:
In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
TomR typed:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-04, TomR wrote:
In ,
Mike typed:
On 2015-07-02, dadiOH wrote:
Mike wrote:
I'm performing maintenance on an old structure (70+ years old).
This structure has a type of tile I've never seen before. The
idea I have for sealing the outside is to apply something like
plaster or stucco to the outside to seal places where wasps
enter the tile, etc. The tile has mortar between the tile.. . .

Also, check out this website:
http://historicbldgs.com/terra_cotta.htm

Interesting, I just noticed on the website above that it says,

"Structural Terra Cotta" by Bill Kibbel

"Also known as hollow structural tile, hollow tile block, hollow
building tile, structural clay tile and structural clay load-bearing
wall tile."
So, I guess that people do call it "tile" in one form or another. That's a
new one for me.

And, I just noticed that the website also says,

"The grooves, or ribbing, is on four sides of the "shell" to help mortar,
plaster and stucco adhere to the surface. When used above grade, the
interior has plaster directly applied and the exterior is often coated with
stucco. These are not vitrified or glazed. If exposed to the weather, they
can deteriorate."



So what do I use for stucco or plaster?

Mike

Mike wrote:

So what do I use for stucco or plaster?

Portland cement & sand. Easiest if you just buy bags of pre-mixed
stucco/mortar.

If you just want a thin coat (stucco usually winds up around 5/8 thick) you
might consider thinset mortar. I wanted to plaster over a block garden wall
a few years ago and used it because I find it much easier to apply than
regular stucco mortar.

In ,
Mike typed:
And, I just noticed that the website also says,

"The grooves, or ribbing, is on four sides of the "shell" to help
mortar, plaster and stucco adhere to the surface. When used above
grade, the interior has plaster directly applied and the exterior is
often coated with stucco. These are not vitrified or glazed. If
exposed to the weather, they can deteriorate."

So what do I use for stucco or plaster?

Mike

I don't know, but I am sure that if you do Google and YouTube searches for
something like "stucco brick wall" you will see lots of good information on
what the use, how to apply it, etc.