After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary

Ivan Vegvary writes:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?

It depends. This is commonly known as an "edison circuit". If each
of the two breakers were on different legs of the 240v service, then the
current in the grounded conductor will cancel out, such that if full load is
drawn on both of the two hot conductors, the current flow in the
grounded conductor (aka neutral) will sum to zero.

If they're on the same leg, then yes, you'll draw 2x the current
on the grounded conductor, which would be a code violation.

Using a commercial handle-tie 240v breaker is recommended, as it will ensu

a) That the two circuits are on opposite legs
b) That both circuits must be disconnected simultaneously.

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 11:01:20 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:

To add to that, if you have two 20 amp circuits on opposite
legs, the current in the neutral will always be between
0 and 20 amps. Only the unbalanced portion, ie the difference
between the two flows in the neutral. For example, 15 amps
on one, 5 amps on the other, you have 10 amps in the neutral.

On Thu, 21 May 2015 15:01:15 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Ivan Vegvary writes:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?

It depends. This is commonly known as an "edison circuit". If each
of the two breakers were on different legs of the 240v service, then the
current in the grounded conductor will cancel out, such that if full load is
drawn on both of the two hot conductors, the current flow in the
grounded conductor (aka neutral) will sum to zero.

If they're on the same leg, then yes, you'll draw 2x the current
on the grounded conductor, which would be a code violation.

Using a commercial handle-tie 240v breaker is recommended, as it will ensu

a) That the two circuits are on opposite legs
b) That both circuits must be disconnected simultaneously.
It is NOT recommended. It is required by code. It is mandatory. Doing
it any other way is total stupidity

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 10:42:48 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary

you really did this the best way. makes future troubleshhoting easier, and its a one time expense, so a little extra now doesnt matter.

plus witheach item on its own breaker service is easier.

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 10:42:48 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable
(still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one
neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary

you really did this the best way. makes future troubleshhoting easier, and
its a one time expense, so a little extra now doesnt matter.

plus witheach item on its own breaker service is easier.

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.

On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 10:42:48 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable
(still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one
neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary

you really did this the best way. makes future troubleshhoting easier, and
its a one time expense, so a little extra now doesnt matter.

plus witheach item on its own breaker service is easier.

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:
Up here they are called "split" circuits, particularly when feeding a
single duplex outlet..

On 05/23/2015 06:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.



What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.


Statistically, multiwire/Edison circuits don't have a bad track record but I still wouldn't have one in my home. Not worth the risk.

On Saturday, May 23, 2015 at 9:08:10 AM UTC-4, Mayhem wrote:
On 05/23/2015 06:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.



What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.


Statistically, multiwire/Edison circuits don't have a bad track record but I still wouldn't have one in my home. Not worth the risk.

The risk of what exactly?

On 5/23/2015 9:19 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, May 23, 2015 at 9:08:10 AM UTC-4, Mayhem wrote:
On 05/23/2015 06:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.



What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.


Statistically, multiwire/Edison circuits don't have a bad track record but I still wouldn't have one in my home. Not worth the risk.

The risk of what exactly?


Suppose you have a heavy resistive load on leg 1 and a light load on leg 2 and then suddenly lose the neutral.
What happens to the voltage across the light load on leg 2?
Would 230 volts smoke a small radio on leg 2?

On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:08:06 -0400, Mayhem wrote:

On 05/23/2015 06:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.



What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.


Statistically, multiwire/Edison circuits don't have a bad track record but I still wouldn't have one in my home. Not worth the risk.
What risk? And to be legal in Ontario kitchen countertop outlets have
had to be "splits" for decades - and the "only" way to do that legally
is with a "split" circuit and tied breakers.

On 05/24/2015 07:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2015 09:08:06 -0400, Mayhem wrote:

On 05/23/2015 06:39 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.



What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.


Statistically, multiwire/Edison circuits don't have a bad track record but I still wouldn't have one in my home. Not worth the risk.

You have several (dryers, ranges and any other 240v appliance with a
120v load), get over it.

There's nothing to "get over".
The shared 120 volt control circuit contained within the metal cabinet of the 240 volt appliance is typically protected (current limited) by a 1 amp fuse or so.

The $10 chinese radio plugged into an Edison circuit wall outlet...not so much.

There may also be some on the 120v circuits
you do not know about.

Not in my home but you are welcome to as many Edison circuits as you like. I fully support your right to do so.

It was common to wire bedrooms on a multiwire
if they were on the other end of the house and split them out in a
ceiling light box.

It's also common and code compliant to use clamps on ground rods too but they always seem to corrode and become loose over time.
I always use an exothermic CADWELD connection. Does the fact I don't use mechanical clamps bother you too?

wrote in message

stuff snipped

BTW your whole house is on a multiwire circuit from the utility and
they share the neutral and ground on a single, down sized wire.
Doesn't that bother you?

But I suspect there wasn't any wannabe electrician 17 yr old rewiring the
power company's pole-mounted transformers. I know that my house *had* been
rewired by a 17 yr old, so I would (and did) worry way more that any Edison
circuit I found wouldn't be wired correctly in my house, not on the poles
outside. Turns out I was right to worry.

I would guess that any house over 50 years old has had some sort of very
underqualified homeowner "electrician" do some sort of electrical work in
the house. From what people have posted elsewhere, I don't think Edison
circuits are well understood by weekend electricians. Anyone touching
anything they don't understand can lead to trouble. I know that multiwire
circuits are the way the whole power grid works. And I know that Edison
circuits it have some advantages and specific uses. But I think it's clear
that the original reason to use them, cost savings, is extinct, or nearly
so.

That's because 12/3 is way more expensive than 12/2 almost everywhere I
looked (and that's not even using sale prices). 12/3 is SO much more
expensive (nearly twice as much at some sites) that there's no wire cost
savings and very little labor savings. And even if you did manage to save
$20 on wire, the dual pole (or multiple one pole) GFCIs you'll have to buy
to get proper GFCI protection will eat up those meager savings in a NY
second.

(-"

--
Bobby G.

On Sat, 23 May 2015 06:39:36 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:58:14 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

+1 Saving the cost of a single wire and an extra breaker isn't worth the
problems that can arise from using Edison circuits. He's dead. They should
be, too. (-:

--
Bobby G.



What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.
+1. To an electrician they are absolutely no problem when properly
used. Any time there are 2 circuits in a single box, it is the "only"
way to be legal.

On Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 8:11:24 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2015 10:00:38 -0400, wrote:


What "problems"? There are certainly advantages beyond saving 2 wires
per circuit. Not the least of which is voltage drop mitigation. (up to
50%). You also get to use smaller/fewer boxes. It is only a problem
for people who do not understand what they are looking at and they
shouldn't be fooling with them in the first place.
+1. To an electrician they are absolutely no problem when properly
used. Any time there are 2 circuits in a single box, it is the "only"
way to be legal.
Huh? There is nothing "illegal" about 2 circuits in a box.

As usual, he likes to just make it up as he goes.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 May 2015 10:00:38 -0400, wrote:

+1. To an electrician they are absolutely no problem when properly
used. Any time there are 2 circuits in a single box, it is the "only"
way to be legal.

Huh? There is nothing "illegal" about 2 circuits in a box.

He could be right if we're talking split receptacles. They might be
"disallowed" if the circuits were not fed with a tied breaker. The
expectation is that if you kill power to an outlet that both upper and lower
halves will be dead. In the split wire receptacle it requires a tied
breaker.

But again, why would you want to feed an upper and lower duplex receptacle
from two different circuits when you could just add a second circuit and
outlet? Has anyone ever lived at a place that had *enough* outlets?
(Hyperbole alert)

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 May 2015 00:44:55 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 May 2015 10:00:38 -0400, wrote:

+1. To an electrician they are absolutely no problem when properly
used. Any time there are 2 circuits in a single box, it is the "only"
way to be legal.

Huh? There is nothing "illegal" about 2 circuits in a box.

He could be right if we're talking split receptacles. They might be
"disallowed" if the circuits were not fed with a tied breaker. The
expectation is that if you kill power to an outlet that both upper and
lower
halves will be dead. In the split wire receptacle it requires a tied
breaker.

But again, why would you want to feed an upper and lower duplex
receptacle
from two different circuits when you could just add a second circuit and
outlet? Has anyone ever lived at a place that had *enough* outlets?
(Hyperbole alert)

You are arguing with the wrong guy. I am not the one who was promoting
that ancient Canadian split receptacle rule on the countertop.

Whoops. My apologies.

There is still no good reason why you couldn't bring a MW circuit into
a 2 gang box, put 2 GFCIs in there and split put your counter top
receptacles from there.

That is not what we were originally talking about tho. It was using a
MW to feed the dishwasher and disposal.

To the point of the actual note you responded to, I was asking why
Clare thinks you can't have 2 separate branch circuits in the same
box.

Wouldn't their breakers have to be either dual pole or tied-handle to
address the NEC's obvious concern with leaving something live that someone
might reasonably expect to be dead? I believe lots of people expect that
when they cut power to a breaker (using the plugged-in radio playing loudly
method, for example) that the outlet it controls will be completely dead.

Feeding two discrete circuits from different breakers into one duplex outlet
clearly re-creates that danger in a slightly different format.

--
Bobby G.

On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way.

On Thu, 21 May 2015 12:43:38 -0400, Mayhem wrote:

On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way.

Same here. A receptacle under the sink. One side is "hot" for the DW
and the GD side is "switched".

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 12:43:38 -0400, Mayhem wrote:

On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way.

Same here. A receptacle under the sink. One side is "hot" for the DW
and the GD side is "switched".

I think the potential issue here is whether a 20A circuit has
enough capacity to serve both a disposal and a dishwasher.
You'd have to see the spec sheets on both. AFAIK, there is
no specific reqt for separate circuits, as long as the circuit
can handle the current for both. Some cities may have their own
rules too.

On 5/21/2015 12:43 PM, Mayhem wrote:
On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire
cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances
separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one
neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp
circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way.


Did the same here, running two 20 amp lines seemed silly to me. I did
run them both at the same time right after I installed them to see if it
would trip the breaker while I still had the downstairs wall open. No
problems showed up with both under load.

Here the disposal only runs while we are cleaning off the plates to put
in the dishwasher. The dishwasher isn't turned on until that step is
done so in reality they never run at the same time anyway.

John

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 4:31:05 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
On 5/21/2015 12:43 PM, Mayhem wrote:
On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire
cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances
separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one
neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp
circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way.


Did the same here, running two 20 amp lines seemed silly to me. I did
run them both at the same time right after I installed them to see if it
would trip the breaker while I still had the downstairs wall open. No
problems showed up with both under load.

Here the disposal only runs while we are cleaning off the plates to put
in the dishwasher. The dishwasher isn't turned on until that step is
done so in reality they never run at the same time anyway.

John

If your dishwasher is the type with an electric heating element that's on during the drying cycle, I wonder how much current it draws? 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Overload Monster

On 5/22/2015 6:01 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 4:31:05 PM UTC-5, John wrote:
On 5/21/2015 12:43 PM, Mayhem wrote:
On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire
cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances
separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one
neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp
circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way.


Did the same here, running two 20 amp lines seemed silly to me. I did
run them both at the same time right after I installed them to see if it
would trip the breaker while I still had the downstairs wall open. No
problems showed up with both under load.

Here the disposal only runs while we are cleaning off the plates to put
in the dishwasher. The dishwasher isn't turned on until that step is
done so in reality they never run at the same time anyway.

John

If your dishwasher is the type with an electric heating element that's on during the drying cycle, I wonder how much current it draws? 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Overload Monster



Dunno - but the breaker has never tripped.

John

On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 11:43:43 AM UTC-5, Mayhem wrote:
On 05/21/2015 10:42 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances separately.
I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires and only one neutral.
Would not that neutral carry twice the current it is designed for?
Thanks for explanations and comments.
Ivan Vegvary


My Whirlpool dishwasher and a KitchenAid disposer are on the same 20 amp circuit and never had a problem.

I don't know if it meets code but I can't imagine it is unsafe in any way..

It could trip the breaker if the appliances are run at the same time but that's not a safety issue since it shows you have protection for your wiring. A fuse or circuit breaker on house wiring is there to protect the wiring not necessarily the appliance. A gizmo can short out and burn up without drawing enough current to overload the circuit it's plugged into. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Electric Monster

Ivan,

After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire
cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances
separately. I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires
and only one neutral. Would not that neutral carry twice the current
it is designed for?

For that kind of "Edison" circuit, the two breakers must be on opposite
sides of the incoming 240V supply. That way each 120V "hot" leg is out of
phase with the other as the AC cycles back and forth. When one leg is
positive, the other leg is negative. The neutral never has more than a
single load on it.

It's a safe and common way to wire some circuits, but I still prefer to run
separate cables for each circuit. That way breakers can be moved around in
the panel if needed without fear of overloading the cable (if both breakers
were placed on the same phase the neutral would carry twice the load). The
cost difference of two cables vs a three-wire cable is usually minimal for
most homes.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Saturday, May 23, 2015 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:
Ivan,

After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire
cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances
separately. I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires
and only one neutral. Would not that neutral carry twice the current
it is designed for?

For that kind of "Edison" circuit, the two breakers must be on opposite
sides of the incoming 240V supply. That way each 120V "hot" leg is out of
phase with the other as the AC cycles back and forth. When one leg is
positive, the other leg is negative. The neutral never has more than a
single load on it.

AFAIK, there is no other kind of Edison circuit. The whole point
of an Edison circuit *requires* that it be on opposite legs.

On Sat, 23 May 2015 15:21:36 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Ivan,

After running two separate circuits for my daughter's dishwasher and
waste disposal, I was told that I could have simply run a three wire
cable (still 2 breakers) from the panel box and fed the appliances
separately. I understand the concept, but, there would be 2 hot wires
and only one neutral. Would not that neutral carry twice the current
it is designed for?

For that kind of "Edison" circuit, the two breakers must be on opposite
sides of the incoming 240V supply. That way each 120V "hot" leg is out of
phase with the other as the AC cycles back and forth. When one leg is
positive, the other leg is negative. The neutral never has more than a
single load on it.

It's a safe and common way to wire some circuits, but I still prefer to run
separate cables for each circuit. That way breakers can be moved around in
the panel if needed without fear of overloading the cable (if both breakers
were placed on the same phase the neutral would carry twice the load). The
cost difference of two cables vs a three-wire cable is usually minimal for
most homes.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
You end up needing to use oversized boxes to handle the wire fill in
many cases, and again, CANADIAN code requires (or at least required in
the past) 2 circuits in the same box to be on a tied breaker or a
pullout fuse block whether they are split/siamesed or totally
separate. If you kill a circuit in a box, you have (in canada) the
assurance that if wired to code, the entire box is deader than a
herring.