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#1
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Home A/C blows warm air
My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows
warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks |
#2
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Home A/C blows warm air
On 05/03/2015 05:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote:
My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks If it's fairly new , it may still be under warranty |
#3
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Home A/C blows warm air
philo wrote:
On 05/03/2015 05:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote: My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks If it's fairly new , it may still be under warranty See if main contactor is energizing and check it's contacts to see if they are badly pitted. Beyond that OP knows how to charge the refrigerant? |
#4
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Home A/C blows warm air
philo wrote:
On 05/03/2015 05:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote: My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks If it's fairly new , it may still be under warranty Is the compressor going? If not starting cap good? Contactor contacts in good shape? Or need more refrigerant after checking leak. |
#5
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Home A/C blows warm air
Ignoramus18130 wrote:
My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks The first thing you check is to be sure there's 220v to the relay . Then that the relay closes when you call for cooling - and that 220 is getting out of the motor side of the contactor . Next is the start cap , if the top is bulged it's for sure dead . If not , I'm sure you have a meter that measures capacitance . You might want to disconnect the fan power temporarily to see if the compressor hums when first energized then quits trying . No hum probably means it's dead or not getting power for some reason , hum then click and stop indicates a high probability it's the cap . If the compressor runs but no cooling , check the lines where you can see them for an oil stain , which indicates a leak at that spot . Do be sure to shut off power to the unit while you've got your fingers in there unless you're actually checking voltage or performing tests . But you knew that . -- Snag |
#6
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Home A/C blows warm air
On 5/3/2015 6:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote:
My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks A few possibilities. Low refrigerant, bad capacitor, bad relay. Do you have the ability to check that stuff? If not, time to call a pro. Best to call now instead of July when it is 105 degrees. |
#7
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Home A/C blows warm air
On 5/3/2015 6:28 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/03/2015 05:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote: * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. If it's fairly new , it may still be under warranty Warranty, check first. Motor run cap is second thing to check. Then, overload and windings. - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
#8
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Home A/C blows warm air
On 5/3/2015 6:54 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
On 05/03/2015 05:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote: * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. Is the compressor going? Reading comprehension not firstly set turn reversely backward? - .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
#9
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Home A/C blows warm air
On 2015-05-03, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/3/2015 6:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote: My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks A few possibilities. Low refrigerant, bad capacitor, bad relay. Do you have the ability to check that stuff? If not, time to call a pro. Best to call now instead of July when it is 105 degrees. Guys, thanks a lot for your help. I have a business buying and selling industrial parts and doing some industrial scrap metal. So I think that I can troubleshoot this. I do not have any experience working with refrigerant. My understanding is, the compressor has a single phase motor with external capacitor and resettable overload relay, right? So, I would check, first, if there is 220v coming in (there likely is since the fan runs), secondly whether there is 24v coming into the coil of the contactor. If yes, I would check the overload relay. Maybe after this, turn off the system for 30 minutes and turn it back on to see if there is any humming or running compressor motor. Then I should have a good idea if the problem is in the boards, power coming in, relays, or capacitor, right? i |
#10
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Home A/C blows warm air
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 5:07:05 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus18130 wrote:
My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks The first thing to check is the static refrigerant pressure. Depending on the type refrigerant your AC has, the static pressure at 78 degrees F will be around 140 psi for R-22 and 230 psi for R-410a. The pressure can be higher if there is a crankcase heater. If you don't have refrigeration gauges, look for a low pressure cut out switch braised into the larger diameter(low side) line going into the compressor. There will be a pair of wires coming off of it going into the control panel and on the simplest condensing units it's connected in series with the contactor and "Y" terminal (yellow wire) on the terminal strip where the thermostat connects. The purpose of the low pressure cut out is to protect the compressor in case the refrigerant leaks out or the pressure gets low enough to cause the evaporator to freeze up.. Of course, with the power off, check the continuity of the switch and if it's open, it indicates a low pressure in the system or a defective switch. There is usually a wiring diagram on the inside or outside of the cover on the control panel/box. It would help to know the brand name and model of your AC or heat pump condenser so I could look it up. The reason I would check the pressure on a system with a pressure switch is because if it failed to run the first time you turned it on this season is that the refrigerant could have leaked out during the colder months. 8-] [8~{} Uncle AC Monster |
#11
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Home A/C blows warm air
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#12
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Home A/C blows warm air
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 9:24:26 PM UTC-5, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 5:07:05 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus18130 wrote: My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks The first thing to check is the static refrigerant pressure. Depending on the type refrigerant your AC has, the static pressure at 78 degrees F will be around 140 psi for R-22 and 230 psi for R-410a. The pressure can be higher if there is a crankcase heater. If you don't have refrigeration gauges, look for a low pressure cut out switch braised into the larger diameter(low side) line going into the compressor. There will be a pair of wires coming off of it going into the control panel and on the simplest condensing units it's connected in series with the contactor and "Y" terminal (yellow wire) on the terminal strip where the thermostat connects. The purpose of the low pressure cut out is to protect the compressor in case the refrigerant leaks out or the pressure gets low enough to cause the evaporator to freeze up. Of course, with the power off, check the continuity of the switch and if it's open, it indicates a low pressure in the system or a defective switch. There is usually a wiring diagram on the inside or outside of the cover on the control panel/box. It would help to know the brand name and model of your AC or heat pump condenser so I could look it up. The reason I would check the pressure on a system with a pressure switch is because if it failed to run the first time you turned it on this season is that the refrigerant could have leaked out during the colder months. 8-] [8~{} Uncle AC Monster Oh crap! bangs head against the wall I went back and read the original post to see that the fan was running. A different troubleshooting scheme is required. Since the fan and compressor on an AC only condensing unit usually use the same contactor, the compressor could be dead because the internal thermal overload protector has opened breaking the connection to the windings. If the refrigerant leaked out of the system, the compressor overheats quickly when powered up and the overload shuts it down until the compressor cools down and the cycle starts over. It can take a long time for the compressor to cool down. You can check for this by removing a side panel and reaching in and placing your hand on the compressor. If it's hot or very hot to the touch, that could indicate an overheated compressor due to refrigerant loss. Low or no refrigerant in the system can be verified with a set of gauges. You can look for other problems like a defective start or run capacitor. If you could take pictures and post them to a photo sharing site of the outside of the unit showing the brand name and possibly model number. Then some shots of the inside with the cover off of the control box and a view of the compressor, I could give you a better idea of what to look for. There are several other things that can keep the compressor from running but you need to make some continuity tests of the compressor windings and visual inspection of all the connections to the compressor and inspect the run capacitor to see if the top of the metal can, where the terminals are located, has bulged out. If you good at troubleshooting electrical circuits, look for the diagram which can be on the inside of the cover on the side of the condensing unit or the cover of the control box. You should post a picture of that too. It would be easier for me to point out what to look for if I could see some pictures. 8-] [8~{} Uncle AC Monster |
#13
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Home A/C blows warm air
On 5/3/2015 10:01 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote:
Guys, thanks a lot for your help. I have a business buying and selling industrial parts and doing some industrial scrap metal. So I think that I can troubleshoot this. CY: What does buying scrap have to do with troubleshooting an AC system? I do not have any experience working with refrigerant. CY: Bummer. My understanding is, the compressor has a single phase motor with external capacitor and resettable overload relay, right? CY: Not the ones I've worked with. So, I would check, first, if there is 220v coming in (there likely is since the fan runs), CY: Yes,likely. secondly whether there is 24v coming into the coil of the contactor. CY: Using some deductive logic, you can tell if there is 24 VAC without a meter. Just from your posts. If yes, I would check the overload relay. Maybe after this, turn off the system for 30 minutes and turn it back on to see if there is any humming or running compressor motor. CY: Not what I'd have done. Then I should have a good idea if the problem is in the boards, power coming in, relays, or capacitor, right? CY: From what you write, you'd have some data, but not much idea. i |
#14
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Home A/C blows warm air
On Sunday, May 3, 2015 at 10:01:47 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus18130 wrote:
On 2015-05-03, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 5/3/2015 6:07 PM, Ignoramus18130 wrote: My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks A few possibilities. Low refrigerant, bad capacitor, bad relay. Do you have the ability to check that stuff? If not, time to call a pro. Best to call now instead of July when it is 105 degrees. Guys, thanks a lot for your help. I have a business buying and selling industrial parts and doing some industrial scrap metal. So I think that I can troubleshoot this. I do not have any experience working with refrigerant. My understanding is, the compressor has a single phase motor with external capacitor and resettable overload relay, right? So, I would check, first, if there is 220v coming in (there likely is since the fan runs), secondly whether there is 24v coming into the coil of the contactor. If there wasn't 24V going to the contactor, the fan wouldn't be running. That would seem to suggest that the contactor/relay is OK too and supplying 240V to the output side which goes to the fan and compressor. |
#15
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Home A/C blows warm air
Ignoramus18130 posted for all of us...
My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks Yes, call the installing/servicing co and get them out now before the temperature rises. It may still be under warranty... -- Tekkie *Please post a follow-up* |
#16
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Home A/C blows warm air
On Mon, 4 May 2015 19:29:51 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:
Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks Yes, call the installing/servicing co and get them out now before the temperature rises. It may still be under warranty... I have my HVAC unit serviced, inspected - twice a year. It can get 117°F out here Pool Fight! |
#17
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Home A/C blows warm air
In ,
Ignoramus18130 typed: My home A/C was turned on yesterday, and we realized that it blows warm air instead of cold. I did a little bit of investigation and also changed the filter. * The outside unit fan is running, but the compressor itself seems to be not running. I measured amps going to it, it is about 1.4 amps 220v, consistent with only the fan running. * The cold refrigerant line (with thermal insulation) is not actually cold but warm. * I just changed a filter. The evaporator coil was not easy to see so I did not look at it. Would you have any troubleshooting suggestions. The outside unit is relatively new. Thanks Two things: 1) Where are you located? The reason that I ask is that I am located in an area where my gas and electric utility provider has a deal where they will come out and look at a broken item such as HVAC, figure out what is wrong, and give a price to fix it. If I don't use them to fix it, there is no charge for the visit. So, it's a free diagnosis. If you are lucky enough to have a utility company that provides that free service, let them check it out for you. I sometimes pay them to do the work if it is something basic and not too expensive. Their repair prices are high in general, but sometimes they can just fix what's wrong while they are there and I'm done with it. 2) Since the condenser fan is running, this may not be applicable, but two times recently when my AC was just blowing hot air it was because the lawn company accidentally weed-whacked the 24-volt wire running to the condenser (two different properties). |
#18
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FOLLOW UP -- Home A/C blows warm air
OK, guys, thanks to those who encouraged me to look further.
Again, what was happening before was that the fan was running, but the compressor was not running. I turned off the thermostat altogether, for several days, due to cool weather. Today, the weather was warm enough to try looking into my AC again. I turned the thermostat to COOL and nothing at all is happening. The furnace fan is not blowing and the outside compressor and fan are not running at all. This is a change from 4 days ago, when at least something was running, now nothing is running. I spent some time today investigating this. This is what I found: *) There is 120 volts coming into the furnace from the circuit breaker *) There is 120 volts on the input of the 24 VAC transformer *) There is no 24 VAC on the output of the transformer, the output is 0 volts AC. *) The secondary (low voltage) winding has resistance appx. 1 ohm *) The primary (high voltage) winding has infinite resistance, in other words it is broken. So, on its face the answer is that my air conditioner is not working because the control transformer is not functioning. It should be easy to replace. What I am not sure is why it failed. Did it happen simply due to age, or there was perhaps overdraw of current or a short in the 24v system that caused it to fail? Any thoughts on this? I can easily find a 120-24v transformer, but I am not sure if I found the root cause or not. i |
#19
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FOLLOW UP -- Home A/C blows warm air
On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus18857 wrote:
OK, guys, thanks to those who encouraged me to look further. Again, what was happening before was that the fan was running, but the compressor was not running. I turned off the thermostat altogether, for several days, due to cool weather. Today, the weather was warm enough to try looking into my AC again. I turned the thermostat to COOL and nothing at all is happening. The furnace fan is not blowing and the outside compressor and fan are not running at all. This is a change from 4 days ago, when at least something was running, now nothing is running. I spent some time today investigating this. This is what I found: *) There is 120 volts coming into the furnace from the circuit breaker *) There is 120 volts on the input of the 24 VAC transformer *) There is no 24 VAC on the output of the transformer, the output is 0 volts AC. *) The secondary (low voltage) winding has resistance appx. 1 ohm *) The primary (high voltage) winding has infinite resistance, in other words it is broken. So, on its face the answer is that my air conditioner is not working because the control transformer is not functioning. It should be easy to replace. What I am not sure is why it failed. Did it happen simply due to age, or there was perhaps overdraw of current or a short in the 24v system that caused it to fail? Any thoughts on this? I can easily find a 120-24v transformer, but I am not sure if I found the root cause or not. i Check the thermostat wire out at the condensing unit which could have been damaged during grass cutting. Check the resistance across the pair of the T-stat cable from the furnace to the outdoor unit then with the wire disconnected at the outdoor unit. Sometimes power surges can cause a control transformer to fail. If you get another transformer, get a 2 amp fuse and pigtail fuse holder and put it in series with the secondary and your meter to check current draw of the thermostat circuits. Use common sense. 8-) [8~{} Uncle Control Monster |
#20
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FOLLOW UP -- Home A/C blows warm air
On 2015-05-08, Ignoramus18857 wrote:
OK, guys, thanks to those who encouraged me to look further. Again, what was happening before was that the fan was running, but the compressor was not running. I turned off the thermostat altogether, for several days, due to cool weather. Today, the weather was warm enough to try looking into my AC again. I turned the thermostat to COOL and nothing at all is happening. The furnace fan is not blowing and the outside compressor and fan are not running at all. This is a change from 4 days ago, when at least something was running, now nothing is running. I spent some time today investigating this. This is what I found: *) There is 120 volts coming into the furnace from the circuit breaker *) There is 120 volts on the input of the 24 VAC transformer *) There is no 24 VAC on the output of the transformer, the output is 0 volts AC. *) The secondary (low voltage) winding has resistance appx. 1 ohm *) The primary (high voltage) winding has infinite resistance, in other words it is broken. So, on its face the answer is that my air conditioner is not working because the control transformer is not functioning. It should be easy to replace. What I am not sure is why it failed. Did it happen simply due to age, or there was perhaps overdraw of current or a short in the 24v system that caused it to fail? Any thoughts on this? I can easily find a 120-24v transformer, but I am not sure if I found the root cause or not. OK, I think that I understand what happened, the root cause. The cause was that the contactor for the outside compressor was not closing properly. That is why the compressor was not running originally. Because the contactor would not close, the contactor coil used excessive current. After a while of this, the control transformer burned out. I actually figured this out just by sitting and thinking. Then I went outside, opened the control area of the compressor unit, and found the following confirming evidence: 1) The compressor motor works just fine when I push the contactor to close, by hand 2) The contactor coil stinks and looks blackened/browned, instead of wholesome gold like color. 3) The coil also stinks, like burned out coils are wont to do. So, I think, that I am looking at replacing both the contactor unit, as well as the transformer. I |
#21
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FOLLOW UP -- Home A/C blows warm air
Ignoramus18857 wrote:
OK, guys, thanks to those who encouraged me to look further. Again, what was happening before was that the fan was running, but the compressor was not running. I turned off the thermostat altogether, for several days, due to cool weather. Today, the weather was warm enough to try looking into my AC again. I turned the thermostat to COOL and nothing at all is happening. The furnace fan is not blowing and the outside compressor and fan are not running at all. This is a change from 4 days ago, when at least something was running, now nothing is running. I spent some time today investigating this. This is what I found: *) There is 120 volts coming into the furnace from the circuit breaker *) There is 120 volts on the input of the 24 VAC transformer *) There is no 24 VAC on the output of the transformer, the output is 0 volts AC. *) The secondary (low voltage) winding has resistance appx. 1 ohm *) The primary (high voltage) winding has infinite resistance, in other words it is broken. So, on its face the answer is that my air conditioner is not working because the control transformer is not functioning. It should be easy to replace. What I am not sure is why it failed. Did it happen simply due to age, or there was perhaps overdraw of current or a short in the 24v system that caused it to fail? Any thoughts on this? I can easily find a 120-24v transformer, but I am not sure if I found the root cause or not. i I'd check the contctor in the ODU. Check the coil. |
#22
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FOLLOW UP -- Home A/C blows warm air
On 2015-05-08, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ignoramus18857 wrote: OK, guys, thanks to those who encouraged me to look further. Again, what was happening before was that the fan was running, but the compressor was not running. I turned off the thermostat altogether, for several days, due to cool weather. Today, the weather was warm enough to try looking into my AC again. I turned the thermostat to COOL and nothing at all is happening. The furnace fan is not blowing and the outside compressor and fan are not running at all. This is a change from 4 days ago, when at least something was running, now nothing is running. I spent some time today investigating this. This is what I found: *) There is 120 volts coming into the furnace from the circuit breaker *) There is 120 volts on the input of the 24 VAC transformer *) There is no 24 VAC on the output of the transformer, the output is 0 volts AC. *) The secondary (low voltage) winding has resistance appx. 1 ohm *) The primary (high voltage) winding has infinite resistance, in other words it is broken. So, on its face the answer is that my air conditioner is not working because the control transformer is not functioning. It should be easy to replace. What I am not sure is why it failed. Did it happen simply due to age, or there was perhaps overdraw of current or a short in the 24v system that caused it to fail? Any thoughts on this? I can easily find a 120-24v transformer, but I am not sure if I found the root cause or not. i I'd check the contctor in the ODU. Check the coil. Tony, it was exactly as you said, as I find out. Looks like I need to replace both the contactor and now the transformer. i |
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