On 4/18/2015 12:14 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first.

Around here we call those hard start kits.


Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not
ACR systems.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:58:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 4/18/2015 12:14 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first.

Around here we call those hard start kits.


Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not
ACR systems.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
Then tell me why softstart kits for ac are listed and sold everywhere?
Generally installed when the compressor is on too long cable.

Emerson makes one that is highly recommended. SureStart is used on a
lot of systems for generator and off-grid operation as well.

On 4/18/2015 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:58:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first.

Around here we call those hard start kits.


Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not
ACR systems.

.
Then tell me why softstart kits for ac are listed and sold everywhere?
Generally installed when the compressor is on too long cable.

Emerson makes one that is highly recommended. SureStart is used on a
lot of systems for generator and off-grid operation as well.


I've been doing AC work since before 1995,and
got my EPA "freon certificate" in 1995. In that
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/18/2015 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:58:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first.

Around here we call those hard start kits.


Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not
ACR systems.

.
Then tell me why softstart kits for ac are listed and sold everywhere?
Generally installed when the compressor is on too long cable.

Emerson makes one that is highly recommended. SureStart is used on a
lot of systems for generator and off-grid operation as well.


I've been doing AC work since before 1995,and
got my EPA "freon certificate" in 1995. In that
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


I hope you're just trying to be cute here over
Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more
common "hard start" term. If you google, you will
see that some people and manufacturers refer to
them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact
your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit
of the group here to just say that, instead of creating
more confusion?

On 4/19/2015 8:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


I hope you're just trying to be cute here over
Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more
common "hard start" term. If you google, you will
see that some people and manufacturers refer to
them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact
your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit
of the group here to just say that, instead of creating
more confusion?


I'm being very literal. I've heard of soft start
kits for motors, if the rapid start is too rough
on bearings, pulleys, belts, etc. But never heard
of such for AC/R. Also never seen an ad for soft
start kit.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 10:09:34 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/19/2015 8:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


I hope you're just trying to be cute here over
Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more
common "hard start" term. If you google, you will
see that some people and manufacturers refer to
them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact
your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit
of the group here to just say that, instead of creating
more confusion?


I'm being very literal. I've heard of soft start
kits for motors, if the rapid start is too rough
on bearings, pulleys, belts, etc. But never heard
of such for AC/R. Also never seen an ad for soft
start kit.


Here's one:

http://www.emersonclimate.com/europe...t_Starter.aspx


I guess I'm confused now too. I agree that the common term
that I've always used is a "hard start kit". And it was added
to a compressor that was having trouble starting, tripping the breaker
on start-up, etc. They appear to be the far more common type.
I had one put on my old AC, got another 15 years out of it.

But then Emerson and some others have these "soft start kits".
From a brief look, it seems the soft start kits may be targeted
to reducing the initial current, by starting it more gently and
that they learn, are more expensive. So, maybe they are good for
folks that need to run an AC off a generator? On the other
hand, the common hard start kit is there just to get the compressor
that's having difficulty starting going, thereby preventing the
breaker from tripping. That's what it looks like to me at least.

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 06:42:01 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 4/18/2015 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:58:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first.

Around here we call those hard start kits.


Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not
ACR systems.

.
Then tell me why softstart kits for ac are listed and sold everywhere?
Generally installed when the compressor is on too long cable.

Emerson makes one that is highly recommended. SureStart is used on a
lot of systems for generator and off-grid operation as well.


I've been doing AC work since before 1995,and
got my EPA "freon certificate" in 1995. In that
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmWOgtXMRb0
www.hypereng,com
http://www.gen-pro.biz/#!faq/c1slq
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....91-Soft-Starts
http://www.hvacwebconnection.com/Pro..._softstart.htm

Schneider AltiStart 01 is a comonly stocked soft start unit also
recommended for HVAC compressors.(and large air handlers)
http://www.schneider-electric.com/pr...-altistart-01/


Danfoss is another supplier:
http://products.danfoss.com/productd...ters/037n0046/

Numerous HVAC contractors in our area are using one or the other,
particularly for off-grid or rural applications whre getting a heavier
(stiffer) service is not feasible. These things restrict startup
surge to 2 or 3 times running current, instead of up to 10 times.

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 10:09:30 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 4/19/2015 8:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


I hope you're just trying to be cute here over
Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more
common "hard start" term. If you google, you will
see that some people and manufacturers refer to
them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact
your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit
of the group here to just say that, instead of creating
more confusion?


I'm being very literal. I've heard of soft start
kits for motors, if the rapid start is too rough
on bearings, pulleys, belts, etc. But never heard
of such for AC/R. Also never seen an ad for soft
start kit.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
Stormy needs to get out more and read more. There is a big difference,
conceptually, between hard and soft start, and soft start IS used on
HVAC. Not terribly widely used - but enough to be called a "common"
application.
And yes,Stormy WILL try to rattle my chain - pretty much regardless
what I say.
Sometimes I return the favour.

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 10:40:30 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 05:52:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 4/18/2015 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:58:49 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first.

Around here we call those hard start kits.


Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not
ACR systems.

.
Then tell me why softstart kits for ac are listed and sold everywhere?
Generally installed when the compressor is on too long cable.

Emerson makes one that is highly recommended. SureStart is used on a
lot of systems for generator and off-grid operation as well.


I've been doing AC work since before 1995,and
got my EPA "freon certificate" in 1995. In that
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


I hope you're just trying to be cute here over
Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more
common "hard start" term. If you google, you will
see that some people and manufacturers refer to
them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact
your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit
of the group here to just say that, instead of creating
more confusion?

Soft start is usually associated with 3 phase motors. They bump them
over with a reduced voltage before hitting them with the full voltage.
It was a common thing in the old disk drives when they were the size
of a refrigerator.
The AC thing is generally called a hard start. It is just a capacitor
that goes across the run capacitor and drops out after the motor is up
to speed. You get a bigger kick at start up and the time it takes to
drop out the start capacitor is shorter.
They are thrown at old compressors that can be cranky to start but I
suspect some may just have bad capacitors to start with. Mormon is
right, a lot of old compressors do have insulation break down as they
age. This causes increased current draw and why old refrigerators will
trip GFCIs. It is actually shorting to ground.
Single stage application of soft start technology is at least 10
years old already, and can be a solution for starting compressors and
pumps and fans where the power supply is not "stiff" enough to handle
full power across-the-line starting. It is also used to reduce
starting shock. It replaces thermal/ magnetic reduced voltage
starters.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 3:40:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 10:09:30 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 4/19/2015 8:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 6:42:03 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for
AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing
exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are
listed and sold every where, why have I never
seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


I hope you're just trying to be cute here over
Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more
common "hard start" term. If you google, you will
see that some people and manufacturers refer to
them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact
your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit
of the group here to just say that, instead of creating
more confusion?


I'm being very literal. I've heard of soft start
kits for motors, if the rapid start is too rough
on bearings, pulleys, belts, etc. But never heard
of such for AC/R. Also never seen an ad for soft
start kit.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
Stormy needs to get out more and read more. There is a big difference,
conceptually, between hard and soft start, and soft start IS used on
HVAC. Not terribly widely used - but enough to be called a "common"
application.

Let's recap. Stated problem:


My Carrier AC worked fine until about 4 years ago, when the compressor
started tripping the breaker on startup. It's not the cap. I rarely
used it, preferring open windows unless it's over 90 or 95 out, but it
worked fine for 32 years.



Stormin:

Most likely, the insullation on the motor windings
is breaking down. 32 years is long past time to
replace.


Cla

"I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first."

Really? A soft start kit? I'm with Stormin and Gfre on this one.
If an AC unit starts having trouble starting, tripping the breaker,
a hard start kit is what you typically put on it.

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodma...FUokgQodsQMAEQ

Exactly what my AC was doing. Put a hard start kit on it and
got another 15 years of use out of it. But then Clare says he
doesn't read my posts so I guess he'll continue to live in his
own little world.

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 3:37:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:


Schneider AltiStart 01 is a comonly stocked soft start unit also
recommended for HVAC compressors.(and large air handlers)
http://www.schneider-electric.com/pr...-altistart-01/


Danfoss is another supplier:
http://products.danfoss.com/productd...ters/037n0046/

Numerous HVAC contractors in our area are using one or the other,
particularly for off-grid or rural applications whre getting a heavier
(stiffer) service is not feasible. These things restrict startup
surge to 2 or 3 times running current, instead of up to 10 times.


Anyone here ever see one of those on a residential AC unit?
Not me..... And who said needing a heavier service was the problem?
The stated problem was an AC unit that previously worked OK,
but then was having trouble starting, tripping the breaker.
Sounds like a classic hard start kit application to me.....
And the hard start kit is $40, not $150 for the soft start gizmo.
The fact that the "torque limiter" has DIN mounting alone
should tell you something......

On 4/19/2015 3:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 06:42:01 -0400, Stormin Mormon
Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to
a couple of these, and give me examples of a
couple of parts houses that carry them. I am
willing to learn some thing new.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmWOgtXMRb0
www.hypereng,com
http://www.gen-pro.biz/#!faq/c1slq
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....91-Soft-Starts
http://www.hvacwebconnection.com/Pro..._softstart.htm

Schneider AltiStart 01 is a comonly stocked soft start unit also
recommended for HVAC compressors.(and large air handlers)
http://www.schneider-electric.com/pr...-altistart-01/


Danfoss is another supplier:
http://products.danfoss.com/productd...ters/037n0046/

Numerous HVAC contractors in our area are using one or the other,
particularly for off-grid or rural applications whre getting a heavier
(stiffer) service is not feasible. These things restrict startup
surge to 2 or 3 times running current, instead of up to 10 times.


I'd never seen any thing like this, where I am
(western NY). Thank you. Never know, I may need
some thing like this, one day.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/19/2015 4:55 PM, trader_4 wrote:
Stormy needs to get out more and read more. There is a big difference,
conceptually, between hard and soft start, and soft start IS used on
HVAC. Not terribly widely used - but enough to be called a "common"
application.

Let's recap. Stated problem:


My Carrier AC worked fine until about 4 years ago, when the compressor
started tripping the breaker on startup. It's not the cap. I rarely
used it, preferring open windows unless it's over 90 or 95 out, but it
worked fine for 32 years.



Stormin:

Most likely, the insullation on the motor windings
is breaking down. 32 years is long past time to
replace.


Cla

"I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first."

Really? A soft start kit? I'm with Stormin and Gfre on this one.
If an AC unit starts having trouble starting, tripping the breaker,
a hard start kit is what you typically put on it.

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodma...FUokgQodsQMAEQ

Exactly what my AC was doing. Put a hard start kit on it and
got another 15 years of use out of it. But then Clare says he
doesn't read my posts so I guess he'll continue to live in his
own little world.



From my vantage point, Clare has tended to
sound a bit over assured. Once in a while
I question his confidence.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Numerous HVAC contractors in our area are using one or the other,
particularly for off-grid or rural applications whre getting a heavier
(stiffer) service is not feasible. These things restrict startup
surge to 2 or 3 times running current, instead of up to 10 times.


I'd never seen any thing like this, where I am
(western NY). Thank you. Never know, I may need
some thing like this, one day.

I worked in industry and not home usage. At work we had several large
motors using the 'soft start' devices. I sort of thought of them as a one
shot inverter. That is they are designed to slowly start up a motor so less
inrush current is used as they ramp up to speed. After they reached full
speed then a motor contactor would pull in and connect the motor directly to
the main lines.

That is differant than the hard start crcuits where a motor is hard to
start.

Maybe you guys should start your own thread. My problem is different than yours.

On 4/19/2015 10:30 PM, wrote:
Maybe you guys should start your own
thread. My problem is different than yours.


I've tried renaming posts, in the hopes people
would comment under the correct subject line.
Nothing appears to help.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/20/2015 12:58 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:30:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Maybe you guys should start your own thread. My problem is different than yours.

We have not even decided that you really have a problem other than a
little spritz of gas. I would throw up to a pound or so of freon in it
(whatever it takes to get in the box on the recharge chart) and
reassess next season.


Sigh. I have been in the trade for years, offer
my finest counsel, and get ignored. I guess after
this many comments, if no one picked up on my world
class wisdom, there isn't much hope. I look forward
to a thread on "I had the guy with the 20 point check
put in eight pounds of freon and it still doesn't work
properly, what should I do now". Then, I will beat my
head on the monitor, cry, and go back to bed. I'll sob
until my pillow is wet, and consider taking up drinking
again.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sigh. I have been in the trade for years, offer
my finest counsel, and get ignored. I guess after
this many comments, if no one picked up on my world
class wisdom, there isn't much hope. I look forward
to a thread on "I had the guy with the 20 point check
put in eight pounds of freon and it still doesn't work
properly, what should I do now". Then, I will beat my
head on the monitor, cry, and go back to bed. I'll sob
until my pillow is wet, and consider taking up drinking
again.

Weren't Churchill's warnings ignored before WWII?

On 4/20/2015 8:03 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sigh. I have been in the trade for years, offer
my finest counsel, and get ignored. I guess after
this many comments, if no one picked up on my world
class wisdom, there isn't much hope. I look forward

Weren't Churchill's warnings ignored before WWII?


Yes, and I am complimented that you compared me to such
a great man.

I further predict that Windows will continue to
be profitable, and Apple will increase market
share.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 12:58:48 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Apr 2015 19:30:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Maybe you guys should start your own thread. My problem is different than yours.

We have not even decided that you really have a problem other than a
little spritz of gas. I would throw up to a pound or so of freon in it
(whatever it takes to get in the box on the recharge chart) and
reassess next season.

I told him similar. I thought his question was addressed very well.
While I agree that a "soft start" kit has nothing to do with it,
it's not unusual for threads like this to cover other topics too.
If he has more questions, he can ask. And having some data, like
I measured a temp delta of X between the return and registers,
which we suggested he measure, would be a good idea.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
We have not even decided that you really have a problem other than a
little spritz of gas. I would throw up to a pound or so of freon in it
(whatever it takes to get in the box on the recharge chart) and
reassess next season.


Sigh. I have been in the trade for years, offer
my finest counsel, and get ignored. I guess after
this many comments, if no one picked up on my world
class wisdom, there isn't much hope. I look forward
to a thread on "I had the guy with the 20 point check
put in eight pounds of freon and it still doesn't work
properly, what should I do now". Then, I will beat my
head on the monitor, cry, and go back to bed. I'll sob
until my pillow is wet, and consider taking up drinking
again.

..
Not being in the trade, but I did have to make sure the electrical parts of
some refrigeration equipment where I worked I learned a little about them.
From your experiance, in home system similar to what we are talking about
(say a 2 to 3 ton unit and about 6 to 8 lb of refregrence) how low can the
system get on the 'freon' before it freezes up the outside of the coils ?
I know this will depend on the temperature and humidity but there should be
a general idea.

On 4/20/2015 10:27 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Not being in the trade, but I did have to make sure the electrical parts of
some refrigeration equipment where I worked I learned a little about them.
From your experiance, in home system similar to what we are talking about
(say a 2 to 3 ton unit and about 6 to 8 lb of refregrence) how low can the
system get on the 'freon' before it freezes up the outside of the coils ?
I know this will depend on the temperature and humidity but there should be
a general idea.


A lot depends on air flow, and some of that. No
really definite rules.

Some techs joke about home heat "it's always the
thermostat" and home AC where it's always low on
freon.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

trader_4 posted for all of us...



Maybe Stormin can help us out here


No he can not! Ever

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

Ralph Mowery posted for all of us...


From your experiance


Stumped has NONE!

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

On 4/20/2015 2:46 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Ralph Mowery posted for all of us...


From your experiance


Stumped has NONE!


I've got experience! I mean, I'm
ALMOST TWELVE, and I can read.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/20/2015 2:42 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
trader_4 posted for all of us...



Maybe Stormin can help us out here


No he can not! Ever


I don't care what you think. Mommy loves me.

She said so when I was three.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

I spoke with a local reputable company. They said that the AC should not be refilled if there is a leak. Leaking coolant is toxic. I asked if coolant could naturally dissipated over the years. They said not that much. I asked the original company about checking for the leak. They said that was not part of their inspection and the coolant could have dissipated over the years, but they were hot to just add more coolant.

Something is fishy here.

On 4/23/2015 3:07 AM, wrote:
I spoke with a local reputable company. They
said that the AC should not be refilled if there
is a leak. Leaking coolant is toxic. I asked if
coolant could naturally dissipated over the years.
They said not that much. I asked the original
company about checking for the leak. They said
that was not part of their inspection and the
coolant could have dissipated over the years, but
they were hot to just add more coolant.

Something is fishy here.


As a local, reputable company, I suggest you go
back and read the posts I already made. It is
very possible the system doesn't have a refrigerant
level problem. And if it does, other things need
to be done first.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 3:07:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I spoke with a local reputable company. They said that the AC should not be refilled if there is a leak. Leaking coolant is toxic. I asked if coolant could naturally dissipated over the years. They said not that much. I asked the original company about checking for the leak. They said that was not part of their inspection and the coolant could have dissipated over the years, but they were hot to just add more coolant.

Something is fishy here.

What's fishy? I posted this a week ago:

"Since it looks like it may just be low on refrigerant, I'd get
a different company out to check it out, look for leaks, and if
the leak is just at the valves, or they can't find a leak, then
top it off. At the least, he'd likely get another year out of
it and see what happens. If you get another year, possibly more
for maybe $250, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. "

Gfre posted similar advice. The toxic part is basically BS.

I had a reputable company come out and check. Right off the bat (in about 5 minutes) after taking the caps off, there was a hissing sound and they said the Shrader valve had a leak. He replaced two of them. Did all of his checks. Added a couple of pounds of coolant (at $12 a lb). Now it is working fine, for under $250.

My question would be, shouldn't the first company have found this leak? It seems pretty obvious. Their "20 point check" includes checking the service value. Is the service valve the same as the shrader valve?

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 6:47:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I had a reputable company come out and check. Right off the bat (in about 5 minutes) after taking the caps off, there was a hissing sound and they said the Shrader valve had a leak. He replaced two of them. Did all of his checks. Added a couple of pounds of coolant (at $12 a lb). Now it is working fine, for under $250.

My question would be, shouldn't the first company have found this leak? It seems pretty obvious. Their "20 point check" includes checking the service value. Is the service valve the same as the shrader valve?


From my first two posts:

"The cost of R22 has varied, looks like it's about $10/lb now.
$50/lb seems OK if it needs a pound or two, but $400 for 8 pounds
seems excessive to me too. But before getting to that, it needs
to be determined what's leaking. If it's one of the schrader valves,
it's a $1 fix. If it's the evaporator, may be time for a new system.
But I wouldn't trust a guy that won't even answer questions."


"Since it looks like it may just be low on refrigerant, I'd get
a different company out to check it out, look for leaks, and if
the leak is just at the valves, or they can't find a leak, then
top it off. At the least, he'd likely get another year out of
it and see what happens. If you get another year, possibly more
for maybe $250, that doesn't sound like a bad idea. "


And yes, the Schrader valves and service valves are the same
thing, the first company should have found them and from what
I've heard so far, they appear to be shysters. Refrigerant
leaking from the valves is common and easy to identify.

On 4/30/2015 7:36 AM, trader_4 wrote:

And yes, the Schrader valves and service valves are the same
thing, the first company should have found them and from what
I've heard so far, they appear to be shysters. Refrigerant
leaking from the valves is common and easy to identify.


It's been a while, but I do believe a shrader valve
is one part of a service valve. Actually, with back
seating valve, they might have gage ports, but no
schrader valve.

In any case, it's a simple thing to check.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
On 4/30/2015 7:36 AM, trader_4 wrote:


It's been a while, but I do believe a shrader valve
is one part of a service valve. Actually, with back
seating valve, they might have gage ports, but no
schrader valve.

The schrader valve is a type like goes on car tire. When th ehose is
connected it pushes a plunger in so the vapor can go in. It self seals when
the hose is removed. Most small ACs that have a service valve will have
that kind of valve.I am not sure the ones on the AC are actually Schrader
valves, but just similar to them and called Schrader.

The larger systems often have the more of a manual type of valve. The port
to hook up the hose is just a fitting. The actual valve is made so it can
be forward/reverse seating or put in the middle for servicing and charging
the system.

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 10:11:44 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
On 4/30/2015 7:36 AM, trader_4 wrote:


It's been a while, but I do believe a shrader valve
is one part of a service valve. Actually, with back
seating valve, they might have gage ports, but no
schrader valve.

The schrader valve is a type like goes on car tire. When th ehose is
connected it pushes a plunger in so the vapor can go in. It self seals when
the hose is removed. Most small ACs that have a service valve will have
that kind of valve.I am not sure the ones on the AC are actually Schrader
valves, but just similar to them and called Schrader.

The larger systems often have the more of a manual type of valve. The port
to hook up the hose is just a fitting. The actual valve is made so it can
be forward/reverse seating or put in the middle for servicing and charging
the system.

8 lb is a lot. On most systems that would be a full charge. A reputable company would not put 8 lbs in without finding the leak first. I think they were trying to rip you off. $50 a lb is a bit high too. I just priced a 30lb can at $325.

Most split ac systems use schrader valves but they are special valves for hvac that handle the higher pressure and wide temp range. Otherwise they look the same as the tire ones and you could even use them in a tire. There are valves as well but they isolate the outside unit from the lines.