Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.

Might be the toilet internal passages are scaled up, and it has
nothing to do with the drain.

On 11/11/2014 12:52 PM, Ken wrote:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

It could have an adverse affect on the bowl too, but I'm not positive.

If you pour it into the toilet, it sits in the bowl and does nothing for
the clog in the drain. You have to get it past the bowl.

In ,
Ken typed:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for
the toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know
this from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the
direction the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will
not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.

If it is an old house with lead drain lines tied into the 4-inch cast iron
toilet drain line almost right at the toilet, you can sometimes take the
toilet off and see where the tub drain ties in there. You could then access
the tub drain line from there with the toilet off. It just depends on what
setup you have, but some of the old plumbing drain lines are set up that
way.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram principal.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.

Might be the toilet internal passages are scaled up, and it has
nothing to do with the drain.

I appreciate your reply, but it is undoubtedly due to the hair from the
tub, as that is what I retrieved when I removed the toilet. I used the
acid to remove calcium from the passages of the toilet, so they are clear.

wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram principal.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:24:31 -0600, Ken wrote:

Might be the toilet internal passages are scaled up, and it has
nothing to do with the drain.

I appreciate your reply, but it is undoubtedly due to the hair from the
tub, as that is what I retrieved when I removed the toilet. I used the
acid to remove calcium from the passages of the toilet, so they are clear.

Is this a mobile home in a trailer park? Check the pitch on your
sewer lines - sags in the line, over time, can be a concern, just
sayin'.

On 11/11/2014 6:25 PM, Ken wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???

You know, that opens up the question. Why do
drain cleaners say not to use them in toilets?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/11/2014 05:25 PM, Ken wrote:


I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram principal.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???



The reason for the warning is that drain cleaners can cause a lot of
heat and that could crack the porcelain.

In ,
Ken typed:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

My guess is that acid-type drain cleaners will damage the porcelain toilet.
And, Drano-type alkali drain cleaners probably just don't work on toilet
clogs -- they work (supposedly) on hair clogs etc. that are in sink and tub
drains.

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will
not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub.

The drain hardware in the tub can be any one of a number of different
configurations. I assume that you cannot, or do not want to, open up the
ceiling below the tub drain to see which type of configuration you have. If
you are just going through the tub drain itself, that sometimes does not
work due to the configuration of the trap etc. But, if you are lucky, and
you take to overflow cover off of the tub up near the spout, you can
sometimes put a snake down through there and it will make the turns that you
need to get into the drain line. But, again, it depends on what the
plumbing configuration is for your particular tub.

Another possibility is (although you probably already tried this) is to go
to YouTube.com and do a search for videos on tub drain cleaning. There are
many, and you can look through them to see if they show any options that you
have not yet tried.

Good luck. Let us know if you figure out something that works.

In ,
philo typed:
On 11/11/2014 05:25 PM, Ken wrote:

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake
will not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub.
Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram
principal.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???

The reason for the warning is that drain cleaners can cause a lot of
heat and that could crack the porcelain.

Somehow that seems doubtful to me. Do you happen to know of any source to
confirm that? I am just curious.

On 11/11/2014 06:33 PM, TomR wrote:
In ,
philo typed:
On 11/11/2014 05:25 PM, Ken wrote:

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake
will not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub.
Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram
principal.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???

The reason for the warning is that drain cleaners can cause a lot of
heat and that could crack the porcelain.

Somehow that seems doubtful to me. Do you happen to know of any source to
confirm that? I am just curious.




Plumbing Circle


http://plumbingcircle.com/blog/liqui...ers-of-choice/

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:25:53 -0600, Ken wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram principal.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???
Because they are almost totally ineffective. The only thing they can
accomplish is clean out the trap.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:41:03 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 11/11/2014 05:25 PM, Ken wrote:


I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
Blow the line with compressed air. I have an "air plunger" that
clears blockages quite effectivey - air ofer hydraulic ram principal.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???



The reason for the warning is that drain cleaners can cause a lot of
heat and that could crack the porcelain.
That too.

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:24:31 -0600, Ken wrote:

Might be the toilet internal passages are scaled up, and it has
nothing to do with the drain.

I appreciate your reply, but it is undoubtedly due to the hair from the
tub, as that is what I retrieved when I removed the toilet. I used the
acid to remove calcium from the passages of the toilet, so they are clear.

Is this a mobile home in a trailer park? Check the pitch on your
sewer lines - sags in the line, over time, can be a concern, just
sayin'.

No, it is a tri level home.

TomR wrote:
In ,
Ken typed:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

My guess is that acid-type drain cleaners will damage the porcelain toilet.
And, Drano-type alkali drain cleaners probably just don't work on toilet
clogs -- they work (supposedly) on hair clogs etc. that are in sink and tub
drains.

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will
not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub.

The drain hardware in the tub can be any one of a number of different
configurations. I assume that you cannot, or do not want to, open up the
ceiling below the tub drain to see which type of configuration you have. If
you are just going through the tub drain itself, that sometimes does not
work due to the configuration of the trap etc. But, if you are lucky, and
you take to overflow cover off of the tub up near the spout, you can
sometimes put a snake down through there and it will make the turns that you
need to get into the drain line. But, again, it depends on what the
plumbing configuration is for your particular tub.

Another possibility is (although you probably already tried this) is to go
to YouTube.com and do a search for videos on tub drain cleaning. There are
many, and you can look through them to see if they show any options that you
have not yet tried.

Good luck. Let us know if you figure out something that works.


The overflow idea sounds good, I might try that. Thanks.

On 11/11/2014 11:52 AM, Ken wrote:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
As Seen on TV. I recall the ads for a drain cleaner that was
supposed to be wonderful at cleaning out traps. Essentially it
was a very thin snake that could be run down into the trap. I
didn't think much of it, but it might be possible to clean out the
tub trap with it. I suspect that it would be pretty exasperating
to use, but it might work.

Bill

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:24:29 -0600, Ken wrote:

TomR wrote:
In ,
Ken typed:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

My guess is that acid-type drain cleaners will damage the porcelain toilet.
And, Drano-type alkali drain cleaners probably just don't work on toilet
clogs -- they work (supposedly) on hair clogs etc. that are in sink and tub
drains.

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will
not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub.

The drain hardware in the tub can be any one of a number of different
configurations. I assume that you cannot, or do not want to, open up the
ceiling below the tub drain to see which type of configuration you have. If
you are just going through the tub drain itself, that sometimes does not
work due to the configuration of the trap etc. But, if you are lucky, and
you take to overflow cover off of the tub up near the spout, you can
sometimes put a snake down through there and it will make the turns that you
need to get into the drain line. But, again, it depends on what the
plumbing configuration is for your particular tub.

Another possibility is (although you probably already tried this) is to go
to YouTube.com and do a search for videos on tub drain cleaning. There are
many, and you can look through them to see if they show any options that you
have not yet tried.

Good luck. Let us know if you figure out something that works.


The overflow idea sounds good, I might try that. Thanks.


You REALLY want one of these:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...531717701.html

Mine is black instead of blue and I purchased it locally. Put a few
inches of water in the tub, Plug the overflow with a wet towel, and go
to town with the air plunger. It will blow the line clear, every time.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:34:42 -0600, Bill Gill
wrote:

On 11/11/2014 11:52 AM, Ken wrote:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

Or does the cleaner have an adverse effect on the wax seal used for the
toilet bowl?

The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.
As Seen on TV. I recall the ads for a drain cleaner that was
supposed to be wonderful at cleaning out traps. Essentially it
was a very thin snake that could be run down into the trap. I
didn't think much of it, but it might be possible to clean out the
tub trap with it. I suspect that it would be pretty exasperating
to use, but it might work.

Bill

Sierra Tools - Drain Sweep.
I have one - have never used it - Chintzy looking thing.

Ken:

The reason why is because toilet bowl clogs are generally completely different in nature to bathroom or kitchen sink clogs.

The highly alkaline chemical in a toilet bowl cleaner works two ways;

1. it dissolves hair which is a common cause of bathroom sink clogs. If you ever use a natural bristle brush to paint oven cleaner or toilet bowl cleaner onto something, you'll find the bristles become very soft and weak quickly as the alkaline cleaner dissoves them, and

2. it converts cooking oil and grease into soap through a chemical process called "saponification".

So, alkaline toilet bowl cleaners like Drain-O are really only effective against clogs caused by hair or cooking grease, and those only occur in kitchen and bathroom sinks.

Toilet bowls never get clogged with hair nor cooking grease, and so using an alkaline drain cleaner like Drain-O won't do anything to a clogged toilet bowl.

Also, toilet bowls rarely ever get clogged unless someone drops something like a comb, a toothbrush or a deodorant stick into the toilet while it's flushing. In that case, the comb or toothbrush will get jammed at the top of the "syphon tube" in a toilet bowl:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...oilet-bowl.gif

In that case, the comb, toothbrush or deodorant stick is up and out of the water for the most part. So, not only would the alkali toilet cleaner do nothing to remove the plastic that's blocking the syphon tube in the toilet bowl, for the most part that plastic would be out of the water where the drain cleaner wouldn't even be in contact with the plastic doing the clogging.

So, really, it's because drain cleaners work by dissolving hair and converting grease into soap, and toilet bowls never get clogged by either hair or cooking grease, so a drain cleaner wouldn't work on a clogged toilet bowl.

On 11/11/14, 12:52 PM, Ken wrote:
The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

When a toilet flushes slowly, sometimes it's because the water from the
tank isn't entering the bowl fast enough to raise the level and get
things flowing fast. If it happened to me, I'd dump a bucket of water
into the bowl to see if that, too, drained slowly.

This is something I had not thought of. Why do they state that drain
cleaners should not be used in toilets???

The reason for the warning is that drain cleaners can cause a lot of
heat and that could crack the porcelain.

http://www.drano.com/en-US/Pages/FAQ.aspx
The only Drano® product recommended for use in a slow toilet is Drano®
Max Build-Up Remover. When used according to label directions, the
microorganisms in this product will break down toilet paper and organic
matter in pipes, which can slow water flow. (This product will NOT open
a completely clogged toilet.)

Do not use any other Drano® product in toilets. Drano® Kitchen Crystals
Clog Remover generates heat that can cause the vitreous china in the
toilet bowl to crack. Drano® Liquid Clog Remover and Drano® Max Gel Clog
Remover do not contain microorganisms. The trap configuration in toilets
prevents the Drano® Liquid Clog Remover and Drano® Max Gel Clog Remover
from reaching areas where matter can accumulate and cause plumbing
problems—so these products are ineffective in toilets.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:17:54 -0500, J Burns
wrote:

When a toilet flushes slowly, sometimes it's because the water from the
tank isn't entering the bowl fast enough to raise the level and get
things flowing fast. If it happened to me, I'd dump a bucket of water

+1

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Slow-Toilet

I prefer the Muriatic acid method (then neutralized before flushing).

Suggest the 1st method with metal pipes or septic tank.

That explanation of the heat generated by the alkaline crystals dissolving in water being sufficient to crack the toilet bowl is a surprise to me. I woulda put that into the "Official reason" category, which is generally as likely to happen as a snowflake in he11.

It seems to me that if a person dumped a whole package of those crystals into a toilet bowl, the water in the toilet bowl would absorb that heat and maybe warm up a few degrees. I'm guessing there would have to be a low water level in the bowl and plenty of those crystals used to generate enough heat to actually cause the porcelain to crack. After all, during the hot summer months, the water in a toilet TANK will be close to room temperature, or 90 degrees in an un-air-conditioned house, and when you flush the toilet, all of that water is replaced with much colder water, say 55 deg. F, and yet it's rare for toilet tanks to crack because of the thermal stresses caused by that sudden 35 degree temperature change. I wouldn't think that adding Drano crystals to a toilet bowl would raise the water temperature of the bowl water by anything even close to 35 deg. F.

But, I'm not going to argue with the nice people at Drano.

nestork writes:


That explanation of the heat generated by the alkaline crystals
dissolving in water being sufficient to crack the toilet bowl is a
surprise to me.

-- Twentyfive doublespaced lines of speculation removed.

The point heat from a reaction of lye+aluminum and water can easily reach
212 degrees. As a point heat source, that is certainly a large
enough rapid temperature rise to crack porcelain.

wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:24:29 -0600, Ken wrote:

TomR wrote:
In ,
Ken typed:
Almost every type of drain cleaner specifies that they should NOT be
used in a toilet. Why is that?

Is it because they feel there is too much standing water in the toilet
due to the size of the trap?

My guess is that acid-type drain cleaners will damage the porcelain toilet.
And, Drano-type alkali drain cleaners probably just don't work on toilet
clogs -- they work (supposedly) on hair clogs etc. that are in sink and tub
drains.

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will
not go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub.

The drain hardware in the tub can be any one of a number of different
configurations. I assume that you cannot, or do not want to, open up the
ceiling below the tub drain to see which type of configuration you have. If
you are just going through the tub drain itself, that sometimes does not
work due to the configuration of the trap etc. But, if you are lucky, and
you take to overflow cover off of the tub up near the spout, you can
sometimes put a snake down through there and it will make the turns that you
need to get into the drain line. But, again, it depends on what the
plumbing configuration is for your particular tub.

Another possibility is (although you probably already tried this) is to go
to YouTube.com and do a search for videos on tub drain cleaning. There are
many, and you can look through them to see if they show any options that you
have not yet tried.

Good luck. Let us know if you figure out something that works.


The overflow idea sounds good, I might try that. Thanks.


You REALLY want one of these:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...531717701.html

Mine is black instead of blue and I purchased it locally. Put a few
inches of water in the tub, Plug the overflow with a wet towel, and go
to town with the air plunger. It will blow the line clear, every time.

I put a small snake down the overflow opening, and it went in probably 8
feet or so. When I pulled it out, there did not appear to be any hair
or crud on it. So either that line is clear now, or the obstruction is
in the toilet line now. Time will tell if there is any improvement, as
it is not so bad it will not flush properly, just that sometimes I must
do it twice to empty the toilet bowl completely.

I cannot believe that I did not think of using the overflow to run the
snake down. There are many good ideas that can be had by asking for
them on the newsgroups. If I still have problems, I shall look for an
air plunger. Thanks to all.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:21:40 -0600, Ken wrote:



I put a small snake down the overflow opening, and it went in probably 8
feet or so. When I pulled it out, there did not appear to be any hair
or crud on it. So either that line is clear now, or the obstruction is
in the toilet line now. Time will tell if there is any improvement, as
it is not so bad it will not flush properly, just that sometimes I must
do it twice to empty the toilet bowl completely.

I cannot believe that I did not think of using the overflow to run the
snake down. There are many good ideas that can be had by asking for
them on the newsgroups. If I still have problems, I shall look for an
air plunger. Thanks to all.

So you are saying, you don't see a clog now, but it flushes slow at
times? It may not be the drain.

It may be the holes around the rib are getting blocked by crud and
mineral buildup and not passing the water to the bowl fast enough. It
then does not flush with the force needed.

Check the holes. It may be time to clean them or to replace the
toilet. If you do, consider a comfort height with elongated bowl and a
slow close seat.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.


The toilet drain in houses I've lived in are completely separated from
any tub or sink drains. Separate stack entirely.
It's probably code too.

In ,
Vic Smith typed:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know
this from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the
direction the piping went.

The toilet drain in houses I've lived in are completely separated from
any tub or sink drains. Separate stack entirely.
It's probably code too.

In older homes, the bathroom sink drain and the bathroom tub drain are often
made of lead and they often run along the bottom of the bathroom subfloor
and are leaded into the side of the main sewer line right under the toilet.

Here is a photo with one example:
http://tinypic.com/r/axl47b/8



It is a photo of an open ceiling from underneath the toilet.



The toilet drain comes down through the ceiling right above the two 2x4's
that go across the right half of the photo. The toilet drain then curves
(the part that you can see fairly well) and goes through a 2x8 floor joist
and ties into the vertical stack that goes down inside the side wall (at the
very bottom of the photo).



The two smaller lead drain lines that you can see tie directly into the
curved toilet drain line right under the toilet. They are the drain lines
for the bathroom sink (the top one) and the bathroom tub (the straighter
bottom one).



I see this often in older homes where all of the bathroom drain lines tie in
right under the toilet.

On 11/12/14, 2:36 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:21:40 -0600, Ken wrote:



I put a small snake down the overflow opening, and it went in probably 8
feet or so. When I pulled it out, there did not appear to be any hair
or crud on it. So either that line is clear now, or the obstruction is
in the toilet line now. Time will tell if there is any improvement, as
it is not so bad it will not flush properly, just that sometimes I must
do it twice to empty the toilet bowl completely.

I cannot believe that I did not think of using the overflow to run the
snake down. There are many good ideas that can be had by asking for
them on the newsgroups. If I still have problems, I shall look for an
air plunger. Thanks to all.

So you are saying, you don't see a clog now, but it flushes slow at
times? It may not be the drain.

It may be the holes around the rib are getting blocked by crud and
mineral buildup and not passing the water to the bowl fast enough. It
then does not flush with the force needed.

Check the holes. It may be time to clean them or to replace the
toilet. If you do, consider a comfort height with elongated bowl and a
slow close seat.

I think it's time for a 5-gallon water bucket. I guess a modern toilet
won't hold 5 gallons. If you fill it close to the rim and it takes a
long time to flow out, that's a slow drain. If it's a clog caused by
the tub, I'd expect water to flow into the tub from the drain.

If the drain is slow and the tub isn't affected, it's likely to be the
drain channel in the toilet. I have one of those poorly-designed
1.6-gallon toilets that used to be common. When it gets slow, I know
I'll end up with a clog unless I do something. I plunge and check with
a stopwatch until the time from pushing the lever to the gurgle, is down
to normal.

With other toilets, when I've seen slow flushes and the level in the
bowl didn't get high, the problem was a low level in the tank. I guess
mineral buildup would be harder to fix than adjusting the tank level.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:21:40 -0600, Ken wrote:



I put a small snake down the overflow opening, and it went in probably 8
feet or so. When I pulled it out, there did not appear to be any hair
or crud on it. So either that line is clear now, or the obstruction is
in the toilet line now. Time will tell if there is any improvement, as
it is not so bad it will not flush properly, just that sometimes I must
do it twice to empty the toilet bowl completely.

I cannot believe that I did not think of using the overflow to run the
snake down. There are many good ideas that can be had by asking for
them on the newsgroups. If I still have problems, I shall look for an
air plunger. Thanks to all.

So you are saying, you don't see a clog now, but it flushes slow at
times? It may not be the drain.

It may be the holes around the rib are getting blocked by crud and
mineral buildup and not passing the water to the bowl fast enough. It
then does not flush with the force needed.

Check the holes. It may be time to clean them or to replace the
toilet. If you do, consider a comfort height with elongated bowl and a
slow close seat.

Appreciate your thoughts, but I have done the muriatic acid thing.
Some time ago it was worse and that prompted me to remove the toilet to
gain access to the drain. When I removed some hair from the drain it
did improve, I guess I thought there still might be some hair and crud
that I did not remove.

As for your suggestion of getting a "comfort height and elongated bowl"
for a new toilet: It is true the toilet is old, just like me. But I am
a hard ass Marine and do not require a soft place to crap. A straddle
trench would work if it would flush.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.


The toilet drain in houses I've lived in are completely separated from
any tub or sink drains. Separate stack entirely.
It's probably code too.

I thought the same thing, but when I remove hair from the drain under
the toilet with the snake, I knew it had to be connected to the tub.

On 11/12/14, 6:32 PM, Ken wrote:
As for your suggestion of getting a "comfort height and elongated bowl"
for a new toilet: It is true the toilet is old, just like me. But I am
a hard ass Marine and do not require a soft place to crap. A straddle
trench would work if it would flush.

What you need is a 55-gallon drum. Cut it in half to make two
"sitters." If you want luxury, put a board across. It will be more
comfortable than the jagged edge of the drum, and you can put things
like Starbucks coffee, a laptop computer, and a caramel popcorn box on it.

For sanitation, each morning, you should pour some kerosene in it and
burn it.

I keep scratching toilet seats with my hard ass. Why don't they make
them of cast iron?

With my toilet, a flush takes 6 seconds from the time I push the lever,
but it takes only 2 seconds if I pour in a bucket of water. So my flush
depends on how long it takes the water to flow from the tank to the bowl.

On 11/12/14, 6:32 PM, Ken wrote:

As for your suggestion of getting a "comfort height and elongated bowl"
for a new toilet: It is true the toilet is old, just like me. But I am
a hard ass Marine and do not require a soft place to crap. A straddle
trench would work if it would flush.

I have a 5-gallon toilet that may be more than 60 years old. I try to
remember to flush it annually.

When I dumped in a bucket, that left the bowl level low. To my
surprise, it didn't flush when I pushed the lever. The rush of water
from the tank brought the bowl to its normal level, where it stayed. It
overflowed down the drain but didn't flush.

That shows that if the refill tube in the tank doesn't refill the bowl
all the way, the toilet may not flush well. If I had an old toilet that
didn't flush well, I'd pour water slowly into the bowl to bring it to
the overflow level, then see if I got a good flush.

On 11/12/2014 6:32 PM, Ken wrote:

As for your suggestion of getting a "comfort height and elongated bowl"
for a new toilet: It is true the toilet is old, just like me. But I am
a hard ass Marine and do not require a soft place to crap. A straddle
trench would work if it would flush.

Good to known Marines never get arthritis in the knees.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:


The reason I ask is I had a poorly flushing toilet and plunging it did
not improve the situation. I tried a snake but the trap of the toilet
and the direction of the drain pipe underneath it made the snake
ineffective. I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know this
from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the direction
the piping went.

The toilet flushes, but my guess is there is still some hair from the
tub that is restricting the flow. So my question is: If I were to
remove the water in the toilet and put some drain cleaner into the
toilet after the trap, would that cause any unforeseen problems?

I have already put some cleaner into the tub drain, and a snake will not
go into this drain due to the drain hardware of the tub. Thanks.

So the drain hardware is enough to keep out the snake, but not hair?
Seems strange.

Were they short hairs from someone whose hair is thinning? Or long
hairs that fall out after a long time, and are long by then? (IIUC at
least in younger people, hairs that fall out are replaced by other hair,
but I don't know if that is from the same follicle, or if they drill
another hole nearby.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:43:50 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

In ,
Vic Smith typed:
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:52:00 -0600, Ken wrote:

I ended up removing the toilet and used a snake. What I
discovered is the toilet met up with the tub drain pipe, and I know
this from the hair I pulled from the piping with the snake and the
direction the piping went.

The toilet drain in houses I've lived in are completely separated from
any tub or sink drains. Separate stack entirely.
It's probably code too.

In older homes, the bathroom sink drain and the bathroom tub drain are often
made of lead and they often run along the bottom of the bathroom subfloor
and are leaded into the side of the main sewer line right under the toilet.

Here is a photo with one example:
http://tinypic.com/r/axl47b/8


Probably code then, because these were old houses.
"Toilet stack" and "sink line" are in the vocabulary here.
Cook county, IL.

On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:22:32 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:


http://www.drano.com/en-US/Pages/FAQ.aspx
The only Drano® product recommended for use in a slow toilet is Drano®
Max Build-Up Remover. When used according to label directions, the
microorganisms in this product will break down toilet paper and organic
matter in pipes, which can slow water flow. (This product will NOT open
a completely clogged toilet.)

Microorganisms. I'd be afraid to have that overnight in my home. Might
grow and snatch my body. Or my loved ones'.

On 11/12/14, 10:45 PM, micky wrote:
Were they short hairs from someone whose hair is thinning? Or long
hairs that fall out after a long time, and are long by then? (IIUC at
least in younger people, hairs that fall out are replaced by other hair,
but I don't know if that is from the same follicle, or if they drill
another hole nearby.

I assumed it was horse hair. I don't know about you, but I help my
horse in and out of the tub by grabbing the mane with one hand and the
tail with the other.