Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:38:31 -0400, wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce

On 10/4/14, 9:38 PM, wrote:
Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

"Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook" (1990)
says the nylon isn't damaged by assembly.

The Federal Aviation Administration says it's fine to reuse them, but
you should check the torque to be sure they still have the required
friction.

wrote in :

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

Just replace it. A nickel can only be squeezed so much.

wrote in :

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 21:38:31 -0400, wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

An engineer would say once.

So would I.

Every time you use it, the nylon wears and the retention is decreased.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in news:m0qdv1$3k6$1
@dont-email.me:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce


Castle nuts, slotted hex nuts? What yo described sounds a bit different
though.

http://www.thefind.com/hardware/info-slotted-hex-nuts

You'll find them in the pullout drawers at Ace, The Borgs, lumber yards,
etc.

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 11:29:37 PM UTC-4, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:



Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.



How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have

it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?



That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work

fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at

the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.



Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section

at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and

perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen

any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have

been "aerolock" or "aerotight."



Perce

sounds like a type of "prevailing torque nut" - one I've seen most common is one where the threads are ovaled at one end to provide drag on the stud/bolt/screw. Not to be confused with a castellated nut which is to be used with a cotter pin.

nate

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 10:29:37 PM UTC-5, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section

at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and

perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen

any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have

been "aerolock" or "aerotight."



Perce

Check these: http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-locknuts/=u0oyp6

Well, after reading this:

Nyloc nut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would say that Nyloc nuts can be re-used very many times without lessening the performance of the nut.

There seems to be a popular misconception about how these nuts work. People tend to think that the screw or bolt threads CUT INTO the nylon, and it's that deformation of the nylon around the screw or nut threads that prevents the nut from coming loose. This is incorrect.

Apparantly, the screw threads DO NOT cut into the nylon at all. Instead, the nylon ring stretches elastically over the screw threads. In engineering terms, elastic deformation means that the nylon returns to it's former size and shape once the force deforming it is removed. So, there is no change in the nylon ring's ID or interior surface as a result of screwing it onto a bolt or screw because all the deformation is purely elastic.

Still, that same web page says that experts disagree on this point. If'n it wuz me, I would re-use the nuts except for applications which you feel are critical and warrant the small cost of using a new nut each time.

On 10/05/2014 12:42 AM, J Burns wrote:
On 10/4/14, 9:38 PM, wrote:
Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

"Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook" (1990)
says the nylon isn't damaged by assembly.

The Federal Aviation Administration says it's fine to reuse them, but
you should check the torque to be sure they still have the required
friction.

+2

--

On 10/05/2014 8:40 AM, nestork wrote:
;3292289 Wrote:
Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

Well, after reading this:

'Nyloc nut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia'
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyloc_nut)

I would say that Nyloc nuts can be re-used very many times without
lessening the performance of the nut.

There seems to be a popular misconception about how these nuts work.
People tend to think that the screw or bolt threads CUT INTO the nylon,
and it's that deformation of the nylon around the screw or nut threads
that prevents the nut from coming loose. This is incorrect.

Apparantly, the screw threads DO NOT cut into the nylon at all.
Instead, the nylon ring stretches elastically over the screw threads.
In engineering terms, elastic deformation means that the nylon returns
to it's former size and shape once the force deforming it is removed.
So, there is no change in the nylon ring's ID or interior surface as a
result of screwing it onto a bolt or screw because all the deformation
is purely elastic.

Still, that same web page says that experts disagree on this point.
If'n it wuz me, I would re-use the nuts except for applications which
you feel are critical and warrant the small cost of using a new nut each
time.

My observation over the years has been that there is some thread-cutting
but it's quite minimal for quite a number of repetitions altho
eventually one will begin to notice some difference in torque required
if they are reused a quite large number of times. There's a filter
housing on the little JD utility tractor here that uses them -- it gets
checked about every 3-6 mo and is of early '90s vintage so that would
have a guesstimate of some 20yr*3/yr-- ~60 cycles so far. On these I'd
judge virtually no change in their characteristics to date. (They're
not large, 8 mm, but I've not reason to think any others would behave
much differently).

There are various other pieces of gear around that use them but no
others that get frequent use as these for comparison...altho I can't
recall when (or if) I've ever thought one needed replacing for having
worn the nylon insert out to the point it didn't function.

--

On Sun, 05 Oct 2014 08:49:32 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/05/2014 12:42 AM, J Burns wrote:
On 10/4/14, 9:38 PM, wrote:
Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

B.

"Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook" (1990)
says the nylon isn't damaged by assembly.

The Federal Aviation Administration says it's fine to reuse them, but
you should check the torque to be sure they still have the required
friction.

+2

Sounds good to me. In this case, I'll only be putting them on 3 times
and there are more than one, so EVEN IF they start coming off, I'll get
some warning.

Mr. Green, the problem isn't the money but the special trip to Nissan to
get them. Are you like you are here in your personal life too?

And thanks, Nestork.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:29:37 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce
Sometimes called "stover" nuts?likely a brand name like "kleenex".

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:29:37 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce
Generically known as "prevailing torque" nuts.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 23:29:37 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce
From the website of Aspen Fasteners - a prevailing torque fastener
supplier:

Description: Nylon insert torque prevailing type lock nuts contain a
captive (permanent) undersized nylon (or other
polymer) insert that grips the mating threads when tightened and
generates the prevailing torque. The nylon insert also
dampens vibration between the bolt and nut further securing the mated
components and provides a gas and moisture seal.
Because the threads of the mating bolt deform but do not cut into the
nylon so nylon insert lock nuts may be re-used a
limited number of times. These nuts are considered one-way lock nuts
because they can only be installed one-way—top
up. Unlike all-metal nuts, the nylon insert limits the use at elevated
temperatures or when exposed to certain chemicals.

All metal prevailing torque type lock nuts achieve their prevailing
torque by altering the shape of the nut in some
way - most commonly by distorting the threads of the nut, which then
bites into the mating part when tightened.
The all-metal locking mechanism causes eventual damage to the
protective coating of the threads on both bolt
and nut. This increases the incidence of corrosion as well as galling.
Replacing the nut will not restore the
damage caused to the bolt threads. Thus there is limited re-use of
all-metal lock nuts. Furthermore they are not
recommended when the nut must travel down long spans of threaded
shanks as the gradual wearing away of
metal tends to loosen the grip of these lock nuts. All-metal lock nuts
include:
1) 2-way Reversible Lock Nuts
2) Flex-Type Lock Nuts
3) Stover Lock Nuts.


According to this, "limited" re-use is allowed. I was taught that the
nut must be replaced when the "prevailing torque" drops below the
minimum specified torque, or when the "running torque" (basically the
same as "prevailing torque" excedes a given torque (due to thread
galling in the case of all metal nuts). With all metal locking nuts
both the nut AND bolt can be compromised bu re-use.

There are also "fiberlok"nuts that are like nyloc but can withstand
higher temperatures. Nyloc are not allowed in the engine compartment
of an aircraft, for instance. Fiberloc and all-metal locknuts are,
while safety wired castellated nuts are preferred.

On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:41:17 +0000 (UTC), Red Green
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in news:m0qdv1$3k6$1
:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce


Castle nuts, slotted hex nuts? What yo described sounds a bit different
though.

Flex-loc nuts.

http://www.thefind.com/hardware/info-slotted-hex-nuts

You'll find them in the pullout drawers at Ace, The Borgs, lumber yards,
etc.

On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 06:03:48 -0700 (PDT), N8N
wrote:

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 11:29:37 PM UTC-4, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:



Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.



How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have

it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?



That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work

fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at

the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.



Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section

at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and

perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen

any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have

been "aerolock" or "aerotight."



Perce

sounds like a type of "prevailing torque nut" - one I've seen most common is one where the threads are ovaled at one end to provide drag on the stud/bolt/screw. Not to be confused with a castellated nut which is to be used with a cotter pin.

nate
There are quite a few different tupes of "prevailing torque" nuts.
Beyound the Nylock and Fiberlock type there are numerous "all metal"
types which can be proken down into One-way and two-way nuts. Stovers
- with a deformed thread on one end are one of the most common
all-steel one-way types. Flex-locks look like a castellated nut but
with slots too narrow for a cotter pin. The "castellated" prtin is
displaced inward to provide the "prevailing torque" They are also
one-wau locking nuts. One way locking nuts can only be installed in
one orientation - locking device out.

Two way locking nuts - center-lock - have one or more indentations in
the center of the "flats" of the nut, deforming the thread inward at
the point(s) of indentation.. Three-bump centerlocks are the most
common. They can be installed in either direction.

On 10/05/2014 02:16 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:41:17 +0000 (UTC), Red Green
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in news:m0qdv1$3k6$1
@dont-email.me:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce


Castle nuts, slotted hex nuts? What yo described sounds a bit different
though.

Flex-loc nuts.

http://www.smithfast.com/flexlocHHFHlocknuts.html

I think I've seen them, but it's not what I had in mind.

I googled the names I thought I recalled and found these:

http://www.fastenright.com/aerotight-nuts

which are what I had in mind.

http://www.thefind.com/hardware/info-slotted-hex-nuts

You'll find them in the pullout drawers at Ace, The Borgs, lumber yards,
etc.

I call those castellated nuts, but they aren't what I had in mind. See
above.

Perce

On Sun, 05 Oct 2014 16:19:15 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 10/05/2014 02:16 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 12:41:17 +0000 (UTC), Red Green
wrote:

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in news:m0qdv1$3k6$1
@dont-email.me:

On 10/04/2014 11:06 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Instead of lock washers, some nuts use nylon inserts to keep them on.

How many times can one put the nut on -- and off in between -- and have
it still work well as a lock nut?. When does the nylon stop working?

That depends on the application. Some applications would possibly work
fine if the nut was removed and reassembled once or maybe two times at
the absolute maximum. Many applications it's a one-shot deal.

Long ago I encountered -- no idea where -- nuts that had a split section
at the outer end -- still the same steel as the rest of the nut and
perhaps threaded as well, but it grabbed the bolt tightly. Haven't seen
any for a looong time. are they still used? I think the name might have
been "aerolock" or "aerotight."

Perce


Castle nuts, slotted hex nuts? What yo described sounds a bit different
though.

Flex-loc nuts.

http://www.smithfast.com/flexlocHHFHlocknuts.html

I think I've seen them, but it's not what I had in mind.

I googled the names I thought I recalled and found these:

http://www.fastenright.com/aerotight-nuts

which are what I had in mind.

http://www.thefind.com/hardware/info-slotted-hex-nuts

You'll find them in the pullout drawers at Ace, The Borgs, lumber yards,
etc.

I call those castellated nuts, but they aren't what I had in mind. See
above.

Perce
Yea, those are a "proprietary" version of a flex-lock

On 10/5/14, 1:05 PM, dpb wrote:
There are various other pieces of gear around that use them but no
others that get frequent use as these for comparison...altho I can't
recall when (or if) I've ever thought one needed replacing for having
worn the nylon insert out to the point it didn't function

About 1983, I bought a heavy-duty string trimmer with various heads
including a couple of steel blades. At least one head used a nut with a
red rubbery insert. It still works fine.

I've read that an important function of an elastic insert is to maintain
pressure between the nut threads and the bolt threads. Springs around
carburetor screws do that, and those screws seem to stay in place
regardless of vibration no matter how many times they are adjusted.

In article ,
wrote:

Two way locking nuts - center-lock - have one or more indentations in
the center of the "flats" of the nut, deforming the thread inward at
the point(s) of indentation.. Three-bump centerlocks are the most
common. They can be installed in either direction.

Is this what's used on factory installed lawn mower wheels?

m

On 06 Oct 2014 07:37:55 GMT, (Fake ID) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Two way locking nuts - center-lock - have one or more indentations in
the center of the "flats" of the nut, deforming the thread inward at
the point(s) of indentation.. Three-bump centerlocks are the most
common. They can be installed in either direction.

Is this what's used on factory installed lawn mower wheels?

m
It is one option that has been used on lawn-mower wheels. Ideal for
automated or low-skill assembly as there is no "wrong" way to install
them