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#41
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... On 9/29/2014 7:14 PM, Danny D. wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:33:13 -0400: When my saw died,I had two chains, new in box. I listed them on Ebay with no reserve. One sold for a few bucks, other sold for a penny. Some lucky fellow got a nice chain, cheap. I've *never* sold anything on ebay, craigslist, etc., and I'm not about to start. I'd suggest you try it. If nothing else, it give you a reason to post to AHR. "I sold my saw chain for a penny, by Danny D." 135 lines of original text. 472 follow up posts. 17 spinoff threads, which had 1063 follow up posts. (as reported by Badgolferman.) not to mention the unexplainable reply 17 years hence. |
#42
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
On 9/30/2014 9:22 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
"I sold my saw chain for a penny, by Danny D." 135 lines of original text. 472 follow up posts. 17 spinoff threads, which had 1063 follow up posts. (as reported by Badgolferman.) not to mention the unexplainable reply 17 years hence. On the list "alt.lite.bulb." does anyone remember that old tried N True? .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#43
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: Charlie+ wrote, on Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:06:29 +0100: So what is the difference between the kerf width of the three chains? I doubt that a few thou would start catching on the chainsaw body unless the body clearances are tighter than they should be on any chainsaw. You may get accelerated wear on the bar rails if you tend to tilt the bar in the kerf with the wider chains. But the chain you got should be usable in my guestimation, just try to keep the bar straight in the cut. These are good questions. All I know is the difference in cutter is a few thousandths. How many? Vic said he didn't know, but when I had pressed him, he said not more than 5 or 10 thousandths. When I pressed him on how that would damage the bar with the thinner rails, he said that that's what they tell him. So, I have had three (3) customer service personnel tell me the same thing - but not one of them can tell me why. One of my saws, a small Stihl, has a 14 inch bar and is aimed at homeowners who want to cut up small stuff. It uses an anti-kickback chain made for infrequent users, folks who don't have much experience with chain saws and how to use them. The part of the chain that fits into the bar is about .005" thinner that normal chain. So even though there is a chain that has the same pitch and so on it will not fit easily into this bar. I was able to find a more aggressive chain than the stock one but the better chain for lots of cuts won't fit in the bar so I will be buying another bar for this saw because it gets lots of use. I imagine your chains are the same. I can push the thicker chain into the bar but it drags so much that the bar would overheat quickly. I suppose I could put the chain in with some lube and run it slowly and eventually wear the bar to fit but I'm just gonna buy another bar. I'll get a 16 inch bar because the Stihl dealer says that a 16 inch bar is really the longest bar the saw can pull and still cut fast. Eric |
#44
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:25:04 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: He agreed that, even though the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links are the same, the Oregon H72 is the *wrong* chain for the narrow-kerf bar that is on my Husqvarna 445 (the right chain is the Oregon G72). http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chainsaw-Chain-325-Pitch-x-050-Gauge/ http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chainsaw-Chain-325-Pitch-x-050-Gauge/Narrow-Kerf-Chainsaw-Chain/ http://www.baileysonline.com/Pages/Chainsaw-Chain-Cross-Reference-Chart/ Note how many different types of 0.325 pitch chain is available. 0.325 is not the same as 3/8 which is 0.375. I suggest you buy or download the Oregon "Maintenance and Safety Manual". Lots of good info that might keep you out of trouble: http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/pdf/maintenance_manual/ms_manual.pdf http://www.oregonproducts.com/maintenance/manual.htm I'm not sure where to get the printed version. I forgot where I stole my copy. For your amusement: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html 1AM and I'm dead tired. Later... -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#45
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
etpm wrote, on Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:51:35 -0700:
The part of the chain that fits into the bar is about .005" thinner that normal chain. So even though there is a chain that has the same pitch and so on it will not fit easily into this bar. According to my three phone calls (two to Oregon, and one to Husqvarna), there are four (4) dimensions that matter when matching a chain: 1. pitch (distance between three rivets divided by two), e.g., 0.325" 2. gauge (thickness of the part that goes into the bar), e.g., 0.050" 3. # drive links (number of parts that go into the bar), e.g., 72 4. width of cutter (e.g., narrow kerf or standard kerf), e.g.., G72 vs H72 |
#46
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
dadiOH wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:27:36 -0400:
No it is not. You want to cut it closer to the main trunk...a stub like that will just rot. If the bark ever grows over it, it will encapsulate whatever rot their is. You want to cut just outboard of the branch collar. Here's an explanation and pix... http://www.wcfb.sailorsite.net/WCFB/Pruning.html I read that, and a few others. Thanks. It seems you want to go from the top of the collar to the bottom of the collar. Does this cut look better now? https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3928/1...832e7323_b.jpg |
#47
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Charlie+ wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:34:33 +0100:
OP said all three chains were .050 so this is not useful, an extra .005 would be a major difference. I wouldnt dream of force using a .055 chain in a .050 bar. asking for a jam and superfast sprocket wear. C+ True. The amazing thing is that all three customer service personnel insisted that *damage* could result to the bar, even though the two chains in question, namely the Oregon H72 versus the Oregon G72, all have the same three primary dimensions of pitch, gauge, and number of drive links (as do the Husqvarna H20 and H30 chains). They all said there are four (4) dimensions that must be matched! 1. pitch (distance between links) 2. gauge (thickness of the part that goes into the rail) 3. drive link number (determines the length of the chain, with pitch) 4. kerf width (a major determinant of the power needed to cut & kickback) REFERENCES: Vic of Oregon @ 503-653-8881 Becky of Blont International @ 800-223-5168 (aka Oregon 3rd-party repair) Keisha of Husqvarna @ 800-487-5951 |
#48
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:
For your amusement: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html That looks like my Husqvarna 445! https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg Did you have a photo of the 7-tooth spur type sprocket? https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3871/1...01368b98_c.jpg I had accidentally used a 62-drive-link 18" chain (instead of a 72-link 0.325" pitch 0.050" gauge narrow-kerf chain), so I was worried about sprocket damage. https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/1...4028f121_c.jpg |
#49
Posted to alt.home.repair,rec.woodworking,sci.electronics.repair
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsa...ain-325-Pitch- x-050-Gauge/ That link explained the four (4) types of kerfs: 1. Chisel Kerf 2. Narrow Kerf (Must Be Matched with Narrow Kerf Bars!) 3. Semi-Chisel 4. Skiptooth Versions Notice that, even though the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links are the same, the "narrow-kerf" chain (#2 in the list) must be used with the narrow-kerf bar (which is also called the "micro-lite" bar), which has the same depth of slot and the same width of slot, but which has thinner rails. What I can't fathom is *how* the outer part of the chain can damage the bar, since the part that fits into the bar is the *same* gauge! For example, the 18" "standard" Oregon H72 chain is what I had been told at Lowes to buy, but, the correct chain for my Husqvarna 445 (also from that Lowes store) is the 18" Oregon G72, both of which have the same pitch, gauge, and number of drive links: https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2947/1...74301fa4_c.jpg |
#50
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsa...ain-325-Pitch- x-050-Gauge/Narrow-Kerf-Chainsaw-Chain/ The strange part about that link is this sentence: "This chain will not work well with standard chainsaw bars, so you will need to match your chain with a narrow kerf bar..." Given, AFAWK, the only difference with a narrow-kerf bar from a standard bar is (reputedly) the thickness of the rails, two strange questions must result from that information: 1. *Why* does a narrow-kerf bar have thinner rails than a standard-kerf bar, when the kerf is *outside* the rails? 2. How can they say we must *match* the chains to the narrow-kerf bar, when the parts that goe into the bar (i.e., the drive links themselves) are exactly the *same* in both cases? (e.g., the gauge, which is the part inside the rails) is the *same* on the standard 0.050" gauge Oregon H72 and the narrow-kerf 0.050" gauge Oregon G72 chains) Makes no sense, to me, but, three people (who should know) confirmed this. |
#51
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:
http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chain...eference-Chart I called the number at that reference 707-984-8115 but it is 3am in California and only 6am Eastern, so the "answering service" took down my question and someone will call me back at 9am Eastern (6am my time) to answer my question of: Q: How can a standard-kerf chain possibly damage a narrow-kerf bar? |
#52
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:
http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chain...eference-Chart Wow! That's the least expensive I've *ever* seen an 18" chain go for! The "Woodland Pro" brand chain is only $13 (free shipping too). "CHAIN = WoodlandPRO 18" Chainsaw Chain Loop (20NK-74 Drive Links) This chain is designed to run *exclusively* on narrow kerf bars." Here's the blurb: "20NK will fit saws using Oregon 95VP series and Husqvarna H30 chains. 20NK will not perform well unless matched with a narrow kerf bar. 20NK chain sharpens with a 3/16" round file or 1/8" grinding wheel. Chain manufactured in the U.S.A. by Carlton." The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain! |
#53
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
"Danny D." wrote in message
dadiOH wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:27:36 -0400: No it is not. You want to cut it closer to the main trunk...a stub like that will just rot. If the bark ever grows over it, it will encapsulate whatever rot their is. You want to cut just outboard of the branch collar. Here's an explanation and pix... http://www.wcfb.sailorsite.net/WCFB/Pruning.html I read that, and a few others. Thanks. It seems you want to go from the top of the collar to the bottom of the collar. Does this cut look better now? https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3928/1...832e7323_b.jpg Yes, better, after I saved the image and brightened it - it was severly underexposed - so I could see it. To pis fine, bottom should be a bit more toward main trunk. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#54
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
"Danny D." wrote in message
Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700: http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chain...eference-Chart I called the number at that reference 707-984-8115 but it is 3am in California and only 6am Eastern, so the "answering service" took down my question and someone will call me back at 9am Eastern (6am my time) to answer my question of: Q: How can a standard-kerf chain possibly damage a narrow-kerf bar? I'll take a guess When a tooth is cutting there is force applied toward the bar, thinner bar less able to resist that force. The greater the tooth bite, the greater the force. Ditto for any lateral motion. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#55
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
dadiOH wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:38:20 -0400:
Yes, better, after I saved the image and brightened it - it was severly underexposed - so I could see it. To pis fine, bottom should be a bit more toward main trunk. It was taken at dusk with an iPad that has no flash as my cell phone battery was dead at the end of a long day putting up radio antennas around the neighborhood. |
#56
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
dadiOH wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:43:15 -0400:
When a tooth is cutting there is force applied toward the bar, thinner bar less able to resist that force. The greater the tooth bite, the greater the force. Ditto for any lateral motion. This makes sense. I think the reason for the thinner rails (hence thinner bar) is that the narrow kerf chain cuts a narrow kerf so the bar itself must be thinner in order to have the same clearance inside the wood. So, in effect, the thinner bar isn't there so much as to accommodate the "chain", but, I think, as to accommodate the thinner cut in the wood. Maybe ? |
#57
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
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#58
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
Mike Marlow wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:30:42 -0400:
The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain! Don't worry about that. I don't know if it matters, or not, because I have never used a non low- kickback chain before. I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend: https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2946/1...4d3373ba_b.jpg Some of those Monterrey Pine logs are wider than the 18 inch chain, so, I had to "girdle" them to cut them fully through: https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3883/1...147c05e6_c.jpg AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently? https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg |
#59
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
Danny D. wrote:
I don't know if it matters, or not, because I have never used a non low- kickback chain before. If you saw properly you don't need to worry about it. The most important thing is to not engage the top of the tip of your bar in the wood. Read your owner's manual - it will assuredly have a diagram showing the danger area of your bar. I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend: See the above comment. Some of those Monterrey Pine logs are wider than the 18 inch chain, so, I had to "girdle" them to cut them fully through: No relevance to kickback Dan. AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently? There is no such thing as a high kickback chain - just a regular chain. -- -Mike- |
#60
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
On 10/1/2014 7:58 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend: AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently? https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg The term refers to when the operator touches the tip of the bar to the wood. http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/service/kickback.htm Because of the harsh curve there, the cutting teeth are more exposed. It's possible for the bar to come flying back at you. Can be dangerous or lethal. .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#61
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... For your amusement: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN) --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#62
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message m... "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... For your amusement: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN) first, you have to get that chain saw moving REALLY fast. |
#63
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:58:28 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700: For your amusement: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html It's a Husqvarna 136. My guess is about 25 years old. I got it in a trade for some repair work because it needed a new carburetor. Some cleaning and adjusting solved that problem. The repair job in the photo was just the fuel line. I got tired of replacing it and replaced it with a thicker equivalent. In order to make it fit, I had to enlarge the hole in one of the plastic parts. The required tearing it down to what you see in the photo. It was also useful for cleaning out the oily sawdust from odd corners. A simple job that ended up taking about 5 hrs work. That looks like my Husqvarna 445! https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg The engine is very different. The 445 is a reduced emissions X-torq machine which is quite different from my old 136: http://www.husqvarna.com/us/construction/innovations/x-torq/ Did you have a photo of the 7-tooth spur type sprocket? https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3871/1...01368b98_c.jpg That looks brand new. The sprocket doesn't have the tradition gouge down the middle from the drive links. I have a fair collection of chains for each saw (I think I have about 6 saws), each with its own matching rim sprocket. http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Products/HUSQVARNA/Sprockets/Rim-Sprockets If you're not a heavy user (i.e. not doing logging) you probably don't need to go to such extremes. However, I like to use my chains well past the traditional point where they should be recycled, so matching the wear is required. Incidentally, Bailey's is for professional loggers. They know just about everything there is to know about using chain saws for logging, but are not terribly interested in homeowners. Locally, you might try giving Webb's a visit: http://webbs-farmsupplies.com I had accidentally used a 62-drive-link 18" chain (instead of a 72-link 0.325" pitch 0.050" gauge narrow-kerf chain), so I was worried about sprocket damage. https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/1...4028f121_c.jpg Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. My take on the narrow kerf bars and chains is that if you don't lube them properly, the reduced contact area between the chain and bar will ruin both somewhat faster than a standard bar and chain. I have a few narrow kerf bars in my pile that I traded out with owners because of this problem. I plan to grind the bars flat again, but haven't had the time or interest. Oddly, I've never bothered to compare the normal and narrow kerfs cutting abilities. These days, I just hire the locals to do my tree work for me. I'm getting too old for this type of exercise. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#64
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy into a tivy... -- -Mike- |
#65
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:42:12 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message .. . For your amusement: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN) I may have the opportunity to test the IFR with a chain saw. The IFR-1500 currently has a very dead power supply. I thought I had it fixed, but it didn't last: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/IFR-1500%20Power%20Supply%20Repair/IFR-1500%20power%20supply%20repair.html I've tried to repair it by replacing almost every part in the AC section without success. I'm going to try replacing it completely with a 117VAC only PC desktop power supply (I don't need DC operation). If that doesn't work, it's either eBay or the chain saw. Also, the Wiltron sweeper on the left decided to celebrate its 30th(?) birthday with a volcanic eruption of one of the PS electrolytics. It's been moved to the "to be fixed" pile. The HP 141T spectrum analyzer on the right was upgraded to a slightly better mutation. I have 3 such mainframes with assorted plugins. The glass bottle to the left of the IFR-1500 is environmentally incorrect mercury. Workbench, without the chain saw: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/BL-shop6.html Here's the shop the last time it was presentable: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/test-equip-mess.html It's amazing what I can accomplish in the 2 sq-ft of empty benchtop space remaining. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#66
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 08:59:20 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote: Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN) first, you have to get that chain saw moving REALLY fast. Not really. Just use a carbide chain: http://rapcoindustries.com http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/other-shows/videos/time-warp-chainsaw-cutting-metal.htm (1:16) The catches are that the chain costs $25/ft in 100ft rolls and requires a diamond wheel to resharpen. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#67
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
On 9/29/2014 3:51 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:06:35 -0500: I suspect the wider chain puts more stress/wear on the slot . I have no experience with Husqvarna saws Apparently even Oregon bars can be "micro-lite" as this explanation shows: http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/mi...oLiteBroch.pdf "Micro-Lite is the name for the lean, mean narrow-kerf chains and narrow-kerf guide bars from Oregon. The advantage of using a leaner narrow-kerf cutting system is that it requires less power from the saw to make the same length of cut. By cutting a narrower kerf, the saw does not have to remove as much wood." You'd think the Husqvarna owners manual would mention that a 'standard' chain, even if it's the right pitch, gauge, and number of drive links, will eventually damage the narrow-kerf bar. The Oregon PDF goes on to explain what's *different* about the narrow-kerf bars, which still makes no sense to me because the incompatible chains are the *same* pitch, gauge, and number of drive links! "To help a Micro-Lite chain cut its narrower kerf, Micro-Lite bars are built slightly thinner than standard bars. If Micro-Lite chain is run on a standard bar, there may be hang-ups during the cut. And if standard chain is run on a Micro-Lite bar, all the performance advantages of cutting a narrower kerf will be lost." That doesn't go so far to say that the bar will be damaged, but, clearly, both the Husqvarna and Oregon customer service personnel told me that using the non-microlite chain on a micro-lite bar, will damage the bar, even though the chains are the same dimensions for pitch, gauge, and number of drive links. This data is confusing, to me. If you want a thin kerf then use a band saw. Metal bandsaws are portable. Maybe use the metal blade or make/get one made for it in wood teeth. Vari-pitch teeth ? Martin |
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy into a tivy... It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left to actually lubricate the bar and chain. https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need to add some additional "tackifier": https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier The grease is the "sprocket grease", which lubricates the bar tip sprocket: https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+sprocket+great&tbm=isch#tbm=isch Unless you're doing wood carving with a chain saw, a clean bar and chain is usually an indication of lubrication failure, or a compulsive clean freak. This is what a properly lubricated bar and chain should look like: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080622124148/marvel_dc/images/6/6b/TCM_1A.jpg -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basicquestions
On 10/1/2014 9:48 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 9/29/2014 3:51 PM, Danny D. wrote: Terry Coombs wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:06:35 -0500: I suspect the wider chain puts more stress/wear on the slot . I have no experience with Husqvarna saws Apparently even Oregon bars can be "micro-lite" as this explanation shows: http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/mi...oLiteBroch.pdf "Micro-Lite is the name for the lean, mean narrow-kerf chains and narrow-kerf guide bars from Oregon. The advantage of using a leaner narrow-kerf cutting system is that it requires less power from the saw to make the same length of cut. By cutting a narrower kerf, the saw does not have to remove as much wood." You'd think the Husqvarna owners manual would mention that a 'standard' chain, even if it's the right pitch, gauge, and number of drive links, will eventually damage the narrow-kerf bar. The Oregon PDF goes on to explain what's *different* about the narrow-kerf bars, which still makes no sense to me because the incompatible chains are the *same* pitch, gauge, and number of drive links! "To help a Micro-Lite chain cut its narrower kerf, Micro-Lite bars are built slightly thinner than standard bars. If Micro-Lite chain is run on a standard bar, there may be hang-ups during the cut. And if standard chain is run on a Micro-Lite bar, all the performance advantages of cutting a narrower kerf will be lost." That doesn't go so far to say that the bar will be damaged, but, clearly, both the Husqvarna and Oregon customer service personnel told me that using the non-microlite chain on a micro-lite bar, will damage the bar, even though the chains are the same dimensions for pitch, gauge, and number of drive links. This data is confusing, to me. If you want a thin kerf then use a band saw. Metal bandsaws are portable. Maybe use the metal blade or make/get one made for it in wood teeth. Vari-pitch teeth ? Martin But then you are cutting fire wood or maybe wood working wood (I hope). Martin |
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:57:49 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy into a tivy... It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left to actually lubricate the bar and chain. https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need to add some additional "tackifier": https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier The grease is the "sprocket grease", which lubricates the bar tip sprocket: https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+sprocket+great&tbm=isch#tbm=isch Unless you're doing wood carving with a chain saw, a clean bar and chain is usually an indication of lubrication failure, or a compulsive clean freak. This is what a properly lubricated bar and chain should look like: I can only hope that post was a joke from beginning to end. Most chainsaws don't even have a place to grease the sprocket any more and a saw dripping oil is over-oiling. As for a black streak down your chest and face, if you do your saw is badly abused and has broken parts on the bar cover. Harry K |
#71
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy into a tivy... It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left to actually lubricate the bar and chain. https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need to add some additional "tackifier": https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier Oh - OK - bar and chain lube - but that's not a grease, it's an oil. -- -Mike- |
#72
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 06:39:46 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy into a tivy... It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left to actually lubricate the bar and chain. https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need to add some additional "tackifier": https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier Oh - OK - bar and chain lube - but that's not a grease, it's an oil. Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor. 2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply. Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor. 2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#73
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor. 2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply. Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor. 2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply. Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and chain oil. To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded. -- -Mike- |
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 21:29:48 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor. 2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply. Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor. 2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply. Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and chain oil. To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded. Please re-read what I actually wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket. The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket. This might help: "How to Lubricate your Chainsaw Sprocket" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYlmHgK8Qbc Whenever I add bar oil/lube to the oil tank on my saws, or put away the saws for the day, I also lube the bar sprocket with grease. "What is the difference between oil and grease"? http://www.ask.com/science/difference-between-oil-grease-cc16c0bde30b7d23#full-answer ...oil is the general term that applies to all liquid lubricants, while greases are oils that have been mixed with a thickening agent, which turns them into a semi-solid material. However, if you're into ecology, you might want to look into using vegetable oils for bar lube: http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html http://eartheasy.com/blog/2010/11/using-vegetable-oil-to-replace-chainsaw-oil/ I couldn't resist trying it. It worked quite well on a saw with a new blade and chain. However, with a much older and sloppier chain, I was consuming vegetable oil far too quickly and emptied the tank before I ran out of gasoline. It also tended to sling oil more than ordinary petroleum based bar oil. On the other hand, it smelled good, washed out of my clothes easily, and the smell made me crave fried food. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Friday, October 3, 2014 7:55:41 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 21:29:48 -0400, "Mike Marlow" snip Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and chain oil. To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded. Please re-read what I actually wrote: It wasn't worth reading the first time. Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. Which is exactly how a well adjusted saw WILL look. The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket. The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it comes out of the bar, You stop greasing at the firs sign of oozing out...IF YOU EVEN HAVE A BAR THAT CAN BE GREASED. Most don't anymore. thus producing a greasy looking bar. CORRECTION; Thus producing a bar that has been heavily over greased. I did not suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket. This might help: "How to Lubricate your Chainsaw Sprocket" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYlmHgK8Qbc However, if you're into ecology, you might want to look into using vegetable oils for bar lube: I couldn't resist trying it. It worked quite well on a saw with a new blade and chain. However, with a much older and sloppier chain, I was consuming vegetable oil far too quickly and emptied the tank before I ran out of gasoline. It also tended to sling oil more than ordinary Then your saw has a problem of over - oiling no matter what you use. petroleum based bar oil. On the other hand, it smelled good, washed out of my clothes easily, and the smell made me crave fried food. Jeff, please post about things you know. You very obviously have no clue about chainsaw lubrication...or chainsaws for that matter. To begin with there is no chainsaw in the entire world that has a "blade", it is a "bar". As I said in my first post. You just HAVE TO BE KIDDING. harry k |
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Please re-read what I actually wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket. The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket. Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. All I use is my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been using a chainsaw. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket, and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does or not. -- -Mike- |
#77
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Saturday, October 4, 2014 3:27:06 AM UTC-7, Mike Marlow wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote: Please re-read what I actually wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket. The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket. Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. All I use is my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been using a chainsaw. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket, and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does or not. -Mike- I doesn't, I have one. Nor do almost all of the modern Stihl saws. Harry K |
#78
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 06:27:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Please re-read what I actually wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket. The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket. Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. I suspect the difference is that I don't wipe the bar before storing the chain saw. I leave all the oil, grease, and goo in place, which inhibits rusting. If it's a choice between oil and rust, I'll take the oil. All I use is my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been using a chainsaw. With your fairly modern saws and bars, you're probably ok. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket, http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms170/ There's some controversy over greasing sprocket tips. Stihl bars are not intended to be greased and allegedly last longer. The claim is that greasing the tip brings in more dirt, which causes more wear. The higher speed motors rotate the sprocket fast enough to throw any type of grease or oil from the sprocket. Still pump some of the chain oil into the sprocket bearing for lubrication. This discusses some of the issues involved: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-greases-their-bar-tips.50815/ All of my assorted saws are quite ancient and do not run at high speeds. All of my bars are equally old and have grease holes. I grease the sprockets. http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/slides/chain-saws.html I added 3 more gas saws and one electric since I took this pictu and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does or not. Probably the same as the MS170. No grease hole. Incidentally, you might find this spreadsheet useful: http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/Chain-saw-mix-03.xls It's a table and graph of gas/oil mix for 32;1, 40:1, and 50:1 mixes. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#79
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Was chain sawing a dead Monterey Pine today & had a few basic questions
On Saturday, October 4, 2014 11:00:14 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 06:27:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow" wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Please re-read what I actually wrote: Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me. The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket. The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket. Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. I suspect the difference is that I don't wipe the bar before storing the chain saw. I leave all the oil, grease, and goo in place, which inhibits rusting. If it's a choice between oil and rust, I'll take the oil. All I use is my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been using a chainsaw. With your fairly modern saws and bars, you're probably ok. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket, http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms170/ There's some controversy over greasing sprocket tips. Stihl bars are not intended to be greased and allegedly last longer. The claim is that greasing the tip brings in more dirt, which causes more wear. The higher speed motors rotate the sprocket fast enough to throw any type of grease or oil from the sprocket. Still pump some of the chain oil into the sprocket bearing for lubrication. This discusses some of the issues involved: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-greases-their-bar-tips.50815/ All of my assorted saws are quite ancient and do not run at high speeds. All of my bars are equally old and have grease holes. I grease the sprockets. http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/slides/chain-saws.html I added 3 more gas saws and one electric since I took this pictu and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does or not. Probably the same as the MS170. No grease hole. Incidentally, you might find this spreadsheet useful: http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/Chain-saw-mix-03.xls It's a table and graph of gas/oil mix for 32;1, 40:1, and 50:1 mixes. Running old saws you have some excuse for the advice you are handing out. The newer saws...at least since the 80s... usually don't have a greasable sprocket and for sure don't leave enough oil, grease and goo to even wipe off the bar. You advise to 'squiret some grease on the spocket' any how. Does no good at all unless there is hole there to squirt it in. Any you put on the sprocket sticking out of the bar is going to be slung off. Harry K |
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