"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
On 9/29/2014 7:14 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:33:13 -0400:

When my saw died,I had two chains, new in box. I listed them on Ebay
with no reserve. One sold for a few bucks, other sold for a penny. Some
lucky fellow got a nice chain, cheap.

I've *never* sold anything on ebay, craigslist, etc., and I'm not about
to start.

I'd suggest you try it. If nothing else, it give you
a reason to post to AHR.

"I sold my saw chain for a penny, by Danny D."
135 lines of original text.
472 follow up posts.
17 spinoff threads, which had
1063 follow up posts.
(as reported by Badgolferman.)


not to mention the unexplainable reply 17 years hence.

On 9/30/2014 9:22 AM, Pico Rico wrote:
"I sold my saw chain for a penny, by Danny D."
135 lines of original text.
472 follow up posts.
17 spinoff threads, which had
1063 follow up posts.
(as reported by Badgolferman.)


not to mention the unexplainable reply 17 years hence.

On the list "alt.lite.bulb." does anyone
remember that old tried N True?



..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Charlie+ wrote, on Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:06:29 +0100:

So what is the difference between the kerf width of the three chains? I
doubt that a few thou would start catching on the chainsaw body unless
the body clearances are tighter than they should be on any chainsaw. You
may get accelerated wear on the bar rails if you tend to tilt the bar in
the kerf with the wider chains. But the chain you got should be usable
in my guestimation, just try to keep the bar straight in the cut.

These are good questions.

All I know is the difference in cutter is a few thousandths.

How many? Vic said he didn't know, but when I had pressed him, he said
not more than 5 or 10 thousandths.

When I pressed him on how that would damage the bar with the thinner
rails, he said that that's what they tell him.

So, I have had three (3) customer service personnel tell me the same
thing - but not one of them can tell me why.
One of my saws, a small Stihl, has a 14 inch bar and is aimed at
homeowners who want to cut up small stuff. It uses an anti-kickback
chain made for infrequent users, folks who don't have much experience
with chain saws and how to use them. The part of the chain that fits
into the bar is about .005" thinner that normal chain. So even though
there is a chain that has the same pitch and so on it will not fit
easily into this bar. I was able to find a more aggressive chain than
the stock one but the better chain for lots of cuts won't fit in the
bar so I will be buying another bar for this saw because it gets lots
of use. I imagine your chains are the same. I can push the thicker
chain into the bar but it drags so much that the bar would overheat
quickly. I suppose I could put the chain in with some lube and run it
slowly and eventually wear the bar to fit but I'm just gonna buy
another bar. I'll get a 16 inch bar because the Stihl dealer says that
a 16 inch bar is really the longest bar the saw can pull and still cut
fast.
Eric

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:25:04 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

He agreed that, even though the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links
are the same, the Oregon H72 is the *wrong* chain for the narrow-kerf bar
that is on my Husqvarna 445 (the right chain is the Oregon G72).

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chainsaw-Chain-325-Pitch-x-050-Gauge/
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsaw-Chain/Chainsaw-Chain-325-Pitch-x-050-Gauge/Narrow-Kerf-Chainsaw-Chain/
http://www.baileysonline.com/Pages/Chainsaw-Chain-Cross-Reference-Chart/
Note how many different types of 0.325 pitch chain is available.
0.325 is not the same as 3/8 which is 0.375.

I suggest you buy or download the Oregon "Maintenance and Safety
Manual". Lots of good info that might keep you out of trouble:
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/pdf/maintenance_manual/ms_manual.pdf
http://www.oregonproducts.com/maintenance/manual.htm
I'm not sure where to get the printed version. I forgot where I stole
my copy.

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

1AM and I'm dead tired. Later...

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

etpm wrote, on Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:51:35 -0700:

The part of the chain that fits into the bar is about .005" thinner that
normal chain. So even though there is a chain that has the same pitch
and so on it will not fit easily into this bar.

According to my three phone calls (two to Oregon, and one to Husqvarna),
there are four (4) dimensions that matter when matching a chain:

1. pitch (distance between three rivets divided by two), e.g., 0.325"
2. gauge (thickness of the part that goes into the bar), e.g., 0.050"
3. # drive links (number of parts that go into the bar), e.g., 72
4. width of cutter (e.g., narrow kerf or standard kerf), e.g.., G72 vs H72

dadiOH wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:27:36 -0400:

No it is not. You want to cut it closer to the main trunk...a stub like
that will just rot. If the bark ever grows over it, it will encapsulate
whatever rot their is. You want to cut just outboard of the branch
collar. Here's an explanation and pix...
http://www.wcfb.sailorsite.net/WCFB/Pruning.html

I read that, and a few others. Thanks.

It seems you want to go from the top of the collar to the bottom of the
collar.

Does this cut look better now?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3928/1...832e7323_b.jpg

Charlie+ wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:34:33 +0100:

OP said all three chains were .050 so this is not useful, an extra .005
would be a major difference. I wouldnt dream of force using a .055 chain
in a .050 bar. asking for a jam and superfast sprocket wear. C+

True.

The amazing thing is that all three customer service personnel insisted
that *damage* could result to the bar, even though the two chains in
question, namely the Oregon H72 versus the Oregon G72, all have the same
three primary dimensions of pitch, gauge, and number of drive links (as
do the Husqvarna H20 and H30 chains).

They all said there are four (4) dimensions that must be matched!
1. pitch (distance between links)
2. gauge (thickness of the part that goes into the rail)
3. drive link number (determines the length of the chain, with pitch)
4. kerf width (a major determinant of the power needed to cut & kickback)

REFERENCES:
Vic of Oregon @ 503-653-8881
Becky of Blont International @ 800-223-5168 (aka Oregon 3rd-party repair)
Keisha of Husqvarna @ 800-487-5951

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:


For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

That looks like my Husqvarna 445!
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg

Did you have a photo of the 7-tooth spur type sprocket?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3871/1...01368b98_c.jpg

I had accidentally used a 62-drive-link 18" chain (instead of a 72-link
0.325" pitch 0.050" gauge narrow-kerf chain), so I was worried about
sprocket damage.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/1...4028f121_c.jpg

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsa...ain-325-Pitch-
x-050-Gauge/

That link explained the four (4) types of kerfs:
1. Chisel Kerf
2. Narrow Kerf (Must Be Matched with Narrow Kerf Bars!)
3. Semi-Chisel
4. Skiptooth Versions

Notice that, even though the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links are
the same, the "narrow-kerf" chain (#2 in the list) must be used with the
narrow-kerf bar (which is also called the "micro-lite" bar), which has
the same depth of slot and the same width of slot, but which has thinner
rails.

What I can't fathom is *how* the outer part of the chain can damage the
bar, since the part that fits into the bar is the *same* gauge!

For example, the 18" "standard" Oregon H72 chain is what I had been told
at Lowes to buy, but, the correct chain for my Husqvarna 445 (also from
that Lowes store) is the 18" Oregon G72, both of which have the same
pitch, gauge, and number of drive links:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2947/1...74301fa4_c.jpg

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chainsa...ain-325-Pitch-
x-050-Gauge/Narrow-Kerf-Chainsaw-Chain/

The strange part about that link is this sentence:
"This chain will not work well with standard chainsaw bars,
so you will need to match your chain with a narrow kerf bar..."

Given, AFAWK, the only difference with a narrow-kerf bar from a
standard bar is (reputedly) the thickness of the rails, two strange
questions must result from that information:

1. *Why* does a narrow-kerf bar have thinner rails than a standard-kerf
bar, when the kerf is *outside* the rails?

2. How can they say we must *match* the chains to the narrow-kerf bar,
when the parts that goe into the bar (i.e., the drive links
themselves) are exactly the *same* in both cases?

(e.g., the gauge, which is the part inside the rails) is the *same*
on the standard 0.050" gauge Oregon H72 and the narrow-kerf 0.050"
gauge Oregon G72 chains)

Makes no sense, to me, but, three people (who should know) confirmed this.

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:

http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chain...eference-Chart

I called the number at that reference 707-984-8115 but it is 3am in
California and only 6am Eastern, so the "answering service" took down my
question and someone will call me back at 9am Eastern (6am my time) to
answer my question of:

Q: How can a standard-kerf chain possibly damage a narrow-kerf bar?

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:

http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chain...eference-Chart

Wow!

That's the least expensive I've *ever* seen an 18" chain go for!

The "Woodland Pro" brand chain is only $13 (free shipping too).
"CHAIN = WoodlandPRO 18" Chainsaw Chain Loop (20NK-74 Drive Links)
This chain is designed to run *exclusively* on narrow kerf bars."

Here's the blurb:
"20NK will fit saws using Oregon 95VP series and Husqvarna H30 chains.
20NK will not perform well unless matched with a narrow kerf bar. 20NK
chain sharpens with a 3/16" round file or 1/8" grinding wheel. Chain
manufactured in the U.S.A. by Carlton."

The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain!

"Danny D." wrote in message

dadiOH wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:27:36 -0400:

No it is not. You want to cut it closer to the main trunk...a stub
like
that will just rot. If the bark ever grows over it, it will
encapsulate
whatever rot their is. You want to cut just outboard of the branch
collar. Here's an explanation and pix...
http://www.wcfb.sailorsite.net/WCFB/Pruning.html

I read that, and a few others. Thanks.

It seems you want to go from the top of the collar to the bottom of the
collar.

Does this cut look better now?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3928/1...832e7323_b.jpg

Yes, better, after I saved the image and brightened it - it was severly
underexposed - so I could see it. To pis fine, bottom should be a bit
more toward main trunk.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Danny D." wrote in message

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:

http://baileysonline.com/Pages/Chain...eference-Chart

I called the number at that reference 707-984-8115 but it is 3am in
California and only 6am Eastern, so the "answering service" took down my
question and someone will call me back at 9am Eastern (6am my time) to
answer my question of:

Q: How can a standard-kerf chain possibly damage a narrow-kerf bar?

I'll take a guess

When a tooth is cutting there is force applied toward the bar, thinner bar
less able to resist that force. The greater the tooth bite, the greater
the force. Ditto for any lateral motion.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dadiOH wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:38:20 -0400:

Yes, better, after I saved the image and brightened it - it was severly
underexposed - so I could see it. To pis fine, bottom should be a bit
more toward main trunk.

It was taken at dusk with an iPad that has no flash as my cell phone
battery was dead at the end of a long day putting up radio antennas
around the neighborhood.

dadiOH wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 06:43:15 -0400:

When a tooth is cutting there is force applied toward the bar, thinner
bar less able to resist that force. The greater the tooth bite, the
greater the force. Ditto for any lateral motion.

This makes sense.

I think the reason for the thinner rails (hence thinner bar) is that the
narrow kerf chain cuts a narrow kerf so the bar itself must be thinner in
order to have the same clearance inside the wood.

So, in effect, the thinner bar isn't there so much as to accommodate the
"chain", but, I think, as to accommodate the thinner cut in the wood.

Maybe ?

Danny D. wrote:


The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain!

Don't worry about that.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:30:42 -0400:

The only problem is that it's *not* a low-kickback chain!

Don't worry about that.

I don't know if it matters, or not, because I have never used a non low-
kickback chain before.

I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in
when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2946/1...4d3373ba_b.jpg

Some of those Monterrey Pine logs are wider than the 18 inch chain, so, I
had to "girdle" them to cut them fully through:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3883/1...147c05e6_c.jpg

AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback
chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently?
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg

Danny D. wrote:

I don't know if it matters, or not, because I have never used a non
low- kickback chain before.

If you saw properly you don't need to worry about it. The most important
thing is to not engage the top of the tip of your bar in the wood. Read
your owner's manual - it will assuredly have a diagram showing the danger
area of your bar.


I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in
when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend:

See the above comment.


Some of those Monterrey Pine logs are wider than the 18 inch chain,
so, I had to "girdle" them to cut them fully through:

No relevance to kickback Dan.

AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a
low-kickback chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it
differently?

There is no such thing as a high kickback chain - just a regular chain.

--

-Mike-

On 10/1/2014 7:58 AM, Danny D. wrote:
I don't know when "kickback" kicks in. For example, it didn't kick in
when I was cutting this dead Monterrey Pine this weekend:

AFAIK, the saw never "kicked back" on me, but, I'm using a low-kickback
chain. Would a high-kick-back chain have handled it differently?
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg


The term refers to when the operator touches
the tip of the bar to the wood.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/service/kickback.htm

Because of the harsh curve there, the cutting teeth
are more exposed. It's possible for the bar to come
flying back at you. Can be dangerous or lethal.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html


Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have
a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html


Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I
have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)


first, you have to get that chain saw moving REALLY fast.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 09:58:28 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 01:23:46 -0700:


For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

It's a Husqvarna 136. My guess is about 25 years old. I got it in a
trade for some repair work because it needed a new carburetor. Some
cleaning and adjusting solved that problem. The repair job in the
photo was just the fuel line. I got tired of replacing it and
replaced it with a thicker equivalent. In order to make it fit, I had
to enlarge the hole in one of the plastic parts. The required tearing
it down to what you see in the photo. It was also useful for cleaning
out the oily sawdust from odd corners. A simple job that ended up
taking about 5 hrs work.

That looks like my Husqvarna 445!
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2941/1...77d52069_b.jpg

The engine is very different. The 445 is a reduced emissions X-torq
machine which is quite different from my old 136:
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/construction/innovations/x-torq/

Did you have a photo of the 7-tooth spur type sprocket?
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3871/1...01368b98_c.jpg

That looks brand new. The sprocket doesn't have the tradition gouge
down the middle from the drive links. I have a fair collection of
chains for each saw (I think I have about 6 saws), each with its own
matching rim sprocket.
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Products/HUSQVARNA/Sprockets/Rim-Sprockets
If you're not a heavy user (i.e. not doing logging) you probably don't
need to go to such extremes. However, I like to use my chains well
past the traditional point where they should be recycled, so matching
the wear is required.

Incidentally, Bailey's is for professional loggers. They know just
about everything there is to know about using chain saws for logging,
but are not terribly interested in homeowners. Locally, you might try
giving Webb's a visit:
http://webbs-farmsupplies.com

I had accidentally used a 62-drive-link 18" chain (instead of a 72-link
0.325" pitch 0.050" gauge narrow-kerf chain), so I was worried about
sprocket damage.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/1...4028f121_c.jpg

Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube
and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.

My take on the narrow kerf bars and chains is that if you don't lube
them properly, the reduced contact area between the chain and bar will
ruin both somewhat faster than a standard bar and chain. I have a few
narrow kerf bars in my pile that I traded out with owners because of
this problem. I plan to grind the bars flat again, but haven't had
the time or interest. Oddly, I've never bothered to compare the
normal and narrow kerfs cutting abilities. These days, I just hire
the locals to do my tree work for me. I'm getting too old for this
type of exercise.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube
and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.


Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be
expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy
into a tivy...

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 11:42:12 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
.. .

For your amusement:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/chain-saw-repair.html

Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I have
a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)

I may have the opportunity to test the IFR with a chain saw. The
IFR-1500 currently has a very dead power supply. I thought I had it
fixed, but it didn't last:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/IFR-1500%20Power%20Supply%20Repair/IFR-1500%20power%20supply%20repair.html
I've tried to repair it by replacing almost every part in the AC
section without success. I'm going to try replacing it completely
with a 117VAC only PC desktop power supply (I don't need DC
operation). If that doesn't work, it's either eBay or the chain saw.

Also, the Wiltron sweeper on the left decided to celebrate its 30th(?)
birthday with a volcanic eruption of one of the PS electrolytics. It's
been moved to the "to be fixed" pile. The HP 141T spectrum analyzer
on the right was upgraded to a slightly better mutation. I have 3
such mainframes with assorted plugins. The glass bottle to the left
of the IFR-1500 is environmentally incorrect mercury.

Workbench, without the chain saw:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/BL-shop6.html

Here's the shop the last time it was presentable:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/home/slides/test-equip-mess.html

It's amazing what I can accomplish in the 2 sq-ft of empty benchtop
space remaining.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 08:59:20 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:

Could you explain how to use the IFR and Bird to tune the chain saw ? I
have a Bird and 8924c I could use on mine. (GRIN)

first, you have to get that chain saw moving REALLY fast.

Not really. Just use a carbide chain:
http://rapcoindustries.com
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/other-shows/videos/time-warp-chainsaw-cutting-metal.htm
(1:16)
The catches are that the chain costs $25/ft in 100ft rolls and
requires a diamond wheel to resharpen.






--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 9/29/2014 3:51 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:06:35 -0500:

I suspect the wider chain puts more stress/wear on the slot . I have no
experience with Husqvarna saws

Apparently even Oregon bars can be "micro-lite" as this explanation shows:
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/mi...oLiteBroch.pdf

"Micro-Lite is the name for the lean, mean narrow-kerf chains and
narrow-kerf guide bars from Oregon. The advantage of using a leaner
narrow-kerf cutting system is that it requires less power from the
saw to make the same length of cut. By cutting a narrower kerf, the
saw does not have to remove as much wood."

You'd think the Husqvarna owners manual would mention that a 'standard'
chain, even if it's the right pitch, gauge, and number of drive links,
will eventually damage the narrow-kerf bar.

The Oregon PDF goes on to explain what's *different* about the narrow-kerf
bars, which still makes no sense to me because the incompatible chains
are the *same* pitch, gauge, and number of drive links!

"To help a Micro-Lite chain cut its narrower kerf, Micro-Lite
bars are built slightly thinner than standard bars. If Micro-Lite
chain is run on a standard bar, there may be hang-ups during the cut.
And if standard chain is run on a Micro-Lite bar, all the performance
advantages of cutting a narrower kerf will be lost."

That doesn't go so far to say that the bar will be damaged, but, clearly,
both the Husqvarna and Oregon customer service personnel told me that
using the non-microlite chain on a micro-lite bar, will damage the bar,
even though the chains are the same dimensions for pitch, gauge, and
number of drive links.

This data is confusing, to me.


If you want a thin kerf then use a band saw.
Metal bandsaws are portable. Maybe use the metal blade
or make/get one made for it in wood teeth. Vari-pitch teeth ?

Martin

On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube
and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be
expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy
into a tivy...

It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will
stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to
form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left
to actually lubricate the bar and chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch
If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black
greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need
to add some additional "tackifier":
https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier

The grease is the "sprocket grease", which lubricates the bar tip
sprocket:
https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+sprocket+great&tbm=isch#tbm=isch

Unless you're doing wood carving with a chain saw, a clean bar and
chain is usually an indication of lubrication failure, or a compulsive
clean freak.

This is what a properly lubricated bar and chain should look like:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080622124148/marvel_dc/images/6/6b/TCM_1A.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 10/1/2014 9:48 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
On 9/29/2014 3:51 PM, Danny D. wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:06:35 -0500:

I suspect the wider chain puts more stress/wear on the slot . I have no
experience with Husqvarna saws

Apparently even Oregon bars can be "micro-lite" as this explanation
shows:
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/mi...oLiteBroch.pdf

"Micro-Lite is the name for the lean, mean narrow-kerf chains and
narrow-kerf guide bars from Oregon. The advantage of using a leaner
narrow-kerf cutting system is that it requires less power from the
saw to make the same length of cut. By cutting a narrower kerf, the
saw does not have to remove as much wood."

You'd think the Husqvarna owners manual would mention that a 'standard'
chain, even if it's the right pitch, gauge, and number of drive links,
will eventually damage the narrow-kerf bar.

The Oregon PDF goes on to explain what's *different* about the
narrow-kerf
bars, which still makes no sense to me because the incompatible chains
are the *same* pitch, gauge, and number of drive links!

"To help a Micro-Lite chain cut its narrower kerf, Micro-Lite
bars are built slightly thinner than standard bars. If Micro-Lite
chain is run on a standard bar, there may be hang-ups during the cut.
And if standard chain is run on a Micro-Lite bar, all the performance
advantages of cutting a narrower kerf will be lost."

That doesn't go so far to say that the bar will be damaged, but, clearly,
both the Husqvarna and Oregon customer service personnel told me that
using the non-microlite chain on a micro-lite bar, will damage the bar,
even though the chains are the same dimensions for pitch, gauge, and
number of drive links.

This data is confusing, to me.


If you want a thin kerf then use a band saw.
Metal bandsaws are portable. Maybe use the metal blade
or make/get one made for it in wood teeth. Vari-pitch teeth ?

Martin
But then you are cutting fire wood or maybe wood working wood (I hope).
Martin

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:57:49 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

wrote:



Jeff Liebermann wrote:





Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar lube

and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry to me.



Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the poor guy be

expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to really throw this guy

into a tivy...



It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will

stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to

form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left

to actually lubricate the bar and chain.

https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch

If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black

greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need

to add some additional "tackifier":

https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier



The grease is the "sprocket grease", which lubricates the bar tip

sprocket:

https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+sprocket+great&tbm=isch#tbm=isch



Unless you're doing wood carving with a chain saw, a clean bar and

chain is usually an indication of lubrication failure, or a compulsive

clean freak.



This is what a properly lubricated bar and chain should look like:


I can only hope that post was a joke from beginning to end. Most chainsaws don't even have a place to grease the sprocket any more and a saw dripping oil is over-oiling. As for a black streak down your chest and face, if you do your saw is badly abused and has broken parts on the bar cover.

Harry K

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar
lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry
to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the
poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to
really throw this guy into a tivy...

It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will
stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to
form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left
to actually lubricate the bar and chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch
If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black
greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need
to add some additional "tackifier":
https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier

Oh - OK - bar and chain lube - but that's not a grease, it's an oil.

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 06:39:46 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2014 14:12:54 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have bar
lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It looks dry
to me.

Nooooo... don't say it! Grease? what kind of grease would the
poor guy be expected to have hanging off his bar? You're going to
really throw this guy into a tivy...

It's called "chainsaw bar lube". It's main features are that it will
stick to just about anything, make a huge mess, mix with sawdust to
form tar, and not get launched by the moving chain leaving what's left
to actually lubricate the bar and chain.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+bar+lube&tbm=isch
If you look in a mirror after sawing, and notice that you have a black
greasy line down the centerline of your face and chest, you might need
to add some additional "tackifier":
https://www.google.com/#q=bar%20oil%20tackifier

Oh - OK - bar and chain lube - but that's not a grease, it's an oil.

Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor.
2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply.

Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor.
2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor.
2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply.

Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor.
2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply.

Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are
saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the
very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your
homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the
kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In
fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and
chain oil.

To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded.

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 21:29:48 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Oil - 1. Kick the can over and it dumps oil on the floor.
2. Does not require a pump, grease gun, or spatula to apply.

Grease - 1. Kick the can over and nothing gets dumped onto the floor.
2. Requires a pump, grease gun, spatula, or shovel to apply.

Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are
saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the
very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your
homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the
kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In
fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and
chain oil.

To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded.

Please re-read what I actually wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.
The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

This might help:
"How to Lubricate your Chainsaw Sprocket"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYlmHgK8Qbc
Whenever I add bar oil/lube to the oil tank on my saws, or put away
the saws for the day, I also lube the bar sprocket with grease.

"What is the difference between oil and grease"?
http://www.ask.com/science/difference-between-oil-grease-cc16c0bde30b7d23#full-answer
...oil is the general term that applies to all liquid lubricants,
while greases are oils that have been mixed with a thickening
agent, which turns them into a semi-solid material.

However, if you're into ecology, you might want to look into using
vegetable oils for bar lube:
http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html
http://eartheasy.com/blog/2010/11/using-vegetable-oil-to-replace-chainsaw-oil/
I couldn't resist trying it. It worked quite well on a saw with a new
blade and chain. However, with a much older and sloppier chain, I was
consuming vegetable oil far too quickly and emptied the tank before I
ran out of gasoline. It also tended to sling oil more than ordinary
petroleum based bar oil. On the other hand, it smelled good, washed
out of my clothes easily, and the smell made me crave fried food.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, October 3, 2014 7:55:41 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 21:29:48 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

snip

Jeff - I don't know where you get your information from but what you are
saying here is just flat wrong. Do some research on the vicosity of the
very products you posted a link to. They are oils - regardless of your
homespun definitions. Show me any chainsaw manufacturer that suggests the
kind of glue you are talking about over a regular bar and chain oil. In
fact - show me why the very link you provided is anything but a bar and
chain oil.

To the OP - ignore the advice about "grease". It is totally unfounded.

Please re-read what I actually wrote:

It wasn't worth reading the first time.

Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.

Which is exactly how a well adjusted saw WILL look.

The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar,

You stop greasing at the firs sign of oozing out...IF YOU EVEN HAVE A BAR THAT CAN BE GREASED. Most don't anymore.

thus producing a greasy looking bar.

CORRECTION; Thus producing a bar that has been heavily over greased.

I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

This might help:
"How to Lubricate your Chainsaw Sprocket"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYlmHgK8Qbc
However, if you're into ecology, you might want to look into using
vegetable oils for bar lube:
I couldn't resist trying it. It worked quite well on a saw with a new
blade and chain. However, with a much older and sloppier chain, I was
consuming vegetable oil far too quickly and emptied the tank before I
ran out of gasoline. It also tended to sling oil more than ordinary

Then your saw has a problem of over - oiling no matter what you use.

petroleum based bar oil. On the other hand, it smelled good, washed
out of my clothes easily, and the smell made me crave fried food.


Jeff, please post about things you know. You very obviously have no clue about chainsaw lubrication...or chainsaws for that matter.

To begin with there is no chainsaw in the entire world that has a "blade", it is a "bar".

As I said in my first post. You just HAVE TO BE KIDDING.

harry k

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Please re-read what I actually wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.
The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. All I use is
my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been
using a chainsaw. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket,
and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does
or not.

--

-Mike-

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 3:27:06 AM UTC-7, Mike Marlow wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Please re-read what I actually wrote:

Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.

The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants. All I use is
my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been
using a chainsaw. My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket,
and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does
or not.
-Mike-

I doesn't, I have one. Nor do almost all of the modern Stihl saws.

Harry K

On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 06:27:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Please re-read what I actually wrote:
Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have
bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It
looks dry to me.
The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.
The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it
comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not
suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.

Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants.

I suspect the difference is that I don't wipe the bar before storing
the chain saw. I leave all the oil, grease, and goo in place, which
inhibits rusting. If it's a choice between oil and rust, I'll take
the oil.

All I use is
my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been
using a chainsaw.

With your fairly modern saws and bars, you're probably ok.

My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket,

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms170/

There's some controversy over greasing sprocket tips. Stihl bars are
not intended to be greased and allegedly last longer. The claim is
that greasing the tip brings in more dirt, which causes more wear. The
higher speed motors rotate the sprocket fast enough to throw any type
of grease or oil from the sprocket. Still pump some of the chain oil
into the sprocket bearing for lubrication.

This discusses some of the issues involved:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-greases-their-bar-tips.50815/

All of my assorted saws are quite ancient and do not run at high
speeds. All of my bars are equally old and have grease holes. I
grease the sprockets.
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/slides/chain-saws.html
I added 3 more gas saws and one electric since I took this pictu

and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does
or not.

Probably the same as the MS170. No grease hole.

Incidentally, you might find this spreadsheet useful:
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/Chain-saw-mix-03.xls
It's a table and graph of gas/oil mix for 32;1, 40:1, and 50:1 mixes.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 11:00:14 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 06:27:06 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

wrote:



Jeff Liebermann wrote:





Please re-read what I actually wrote:

Something is wrong with that picture. You're suppose to have

bar lube and grease just oozing out of the bar and chain. It

looks dry to me.

The oil goes on the bar and chain. The grease goes on the sprocket.

The typical way to lube the sprocket is to use a grease gun until it

comes out of the bar, thus producing a greasy looking bar. I did not

suggest using grease on the bar or oil on the sprocket.



Well, we can disagree with each other about oozing lubricants.



I suspect the difference is that I don't wipe the bar before storing

the chain saw. I leave all the oil, grease, and goo in place, which

inhibits rusting. If it's a choice between oil and rust, I'll take

the oil.



All I use is

my bar and chain lube and I've never hurt a bar in all the years I've been

using a chainsaw.



With your fairly modern saws and bars, you're probably ok.



My MS170 doesn't even have a way to grease the sprocket,



http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/homeowner-saws/ms170/



There's some controversy over greasing sprocket tips. Stihl bars are

not intended to be greased and allegedly last longer. The claim is

that greasing the tip brings in more dirt, which causes more wear. The

higher speed motors rotate the sprocket fast enough to throw any type

of grease or oil from the sprocket. Still pump some of the chain oil

into the sprocket bearing for lubrication.



This discusses some of the issues involved:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/who-greases-their-bar-tips.50815/



All of my assorted saws are quite ancient and do not run at high

speeds. All of my bars are equally old and have grease holes. I

grease the sprockets.

http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/slides/chain-saws.html

I added 3 more gas saws and one electric since I took this pictu



and I'd have to look at my MS361 the next time I'm outside to see if it does

or not.



Probably the same as the MS170. No grease hole.



Incidentally, you might find this spreadsheet useful:

http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/chainsaw/Chain-saw-mix-03.xls

It's a table and graph of gas/oil mix for 32;1, 40:1, and 50:1 mixes.



Running old saws you have some excuse for the advice you are handing out. The newer saws...at least since the 80s... usually don't have a greasable sprocket and for sure don't leave enough oil, grease and goo to even wipe off the bar.

You advise to 'squiret some grease on the spocket' any how. Does no good at all unless there is hole there to squirt it in. Any you put on the sprocket sticking out of the bar is going to be slung off.

Harry K