I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work and
are worth the money?

Steve

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work and
are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

--
When knee deep in alligators, remember to drain the swamp.

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work
and are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

He's talking about evaporative cooling units . They pump water from a sump
at the bottom over a fiber pad , then suck air thru same pad to cool by
evaporation . Most units will have 3 pads and the outlet on the 4th side .
Better ones will have a float valve to maintain water level in the sump .
What Steve is talking about is a device that drains the sump daily , which
probably helps keep mineral deposits out of the pump and off the pads .
FWIW Steve , you can probably use a light timer to actuate a solenoid
daily and save a wad of money . Use dual relays and a dashpot delay on the
end of cycle to let the supply water run a minute or two to rinse the sump
before the drain valve closes .
--
Snag

On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work and
are worth the money?

Steve

I can't say about those devices but my experience with using re
circulating pumps on swamp coolers compared to just running the water
thru once and out to the lawn is that recirulating the water is VERY
hard on the cooler causing a lot of corrosion and gunk build up, far
in excess of what you get running the water thru only once. I also
had a water cooled outside AC Condenser that bleed off water when
running to try and keep the salt buildup from being as bad. It still
built up a ton of crap. For $40 I'd do it as it will surely be better
then not doing it.

On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:17:11 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work
and are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

He's talking about evaporative cooling units . They pump water from a sump
at the bottom over a fiber pad , then suck air thru same pad to cool by
evaporation . Most units will have 3 pads and the outlet on the 4th side .
Better ones will have a float valve to maintain water level in the sump .
What Steve is talking about is a device that drains the sump daily , which
probably helps keep mineral deposits out of the pump and off the pads .
FWIW Steve , you can probably use a light timer to actuate a solenoid
daily and save a wad of money . Use dual relays and a dashpot delay on the
end of cycle to let the supply water run a minute or two to rinse the sump
before the drain valve closes .

Jesus, Jose' and Maria! I'm familiar with swamp coolers. Steve and I
live in the same county, only miles apart. He may be talking about his
place in Utah, too. I doubt that, as his shop he built (from several
shipping containers) is most likely here where we live. We've
discussed swamp coolers here before.

All I was saying is that I'm not familiar with the device he talks
about. Shucks, a pet-cock valve will drain water, too. Maybe just used
in winter in Utah.

I'd like to see this "device" he asked about. I could learn something.

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:17:11 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB
wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that
work and are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

He's talking about evaporative cooling units . They pump water from
a sump at the bottom over a fiber pad , then suck air thru same pad
to cool by evaporation . Most units will have 3 pads and the outlet
on the 4th side . Better ones will have a float valve to maintain
water level in the sump . What Steve is talking about is a device
that drains the sump daily , which probably helps keep mineral
deposits out of the pump and off the pads . FWIW Steve , you can
probably use a light timer to actuate a solenoid daily and save a
wad of money . Use dual relays and a dashpot delay on the end of
cycle to let the supply water run a minute or two to rinse the sump
before the drain valve closes .

Jesus, Jose' and Maria! I'm familiar with swamp coolers. Steve and I
live in the same county, only miles apart. He may be talking about his
place in Utah, too. I doubt that, as his shop he built (from several
shipping containers) is most likely here where we live. We've
discussed swamp coolers here before.

All I was saying is that I'm not familiar with the device he talks
about. Shucks, a pet-cock valve will drain water, too. Maybe just used
in winter in Utah.

I'd like to see this "device" he asked about. I could learn something.

Well exxxccuuuuuUUUuuuse me ! I didn't know , and the way your question was
worded ... Anyway , I grew up out there , a bit north of "y'all" near
Potato Country . The biggest thing I don't much like about The South is the
humidity . Swampers don't work well in 90% RH ...
And I'm betting that Steve's device is just a timer-actuated dump valve ,
probably tied to an inlet cutoff . Hmmm, I wonder if a sensor could be
rigged up to dump when a certain concentration/threshold of precipitable
compounds is reached . Probably be easy to program for someone into that
level of computing .
--
Snag

On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:18:09 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:17:11 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB
wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that
work and are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

He's talking about evaporative cooling units . They pump water from
a sump at the bottom over a fiber pad , then suck air thru same pad
to cool by evaporation . Most units will have 3 pads and the outlet
on the 4th side . Better ones will have a float valve to maintain
water level in the sump . What Steve is talking about is a device
that drains the sump daily , which probably helps keep mineral
deposits out of the pump and off the pads . FWIW Steve , you can
probably use a light timer to actuate a solenoid daily and save a
wad of money . Use dual relays and a dashpot delay on the end of
cycle to let the supply water run a minute or two to rinse the sump
before the drain valve closes .

Jesus, Jose' and Maria! I'm familiar with swamp coolers. Steve and I
live in the same county, only miles apart. He may be talking about his
place in Utah, too. I doubt that, as his shop he built (from several
shipping containers) is most likely here where we live. We've
discussed swamp coolers here before.

All I was saying is that I'm not familiar with the device he talks
about. Shucks, a pet-cock valve will drain water, too. Maybe just used
in winter in Utah.

I'd like to see this "device" he asked about. I could learn something.

Well exxxccuuuuuUUUuuuse me ! I didn't know , and the way your question was
worded ... Anyway , I grew up out there , a bit north of "y'all" near
Potato Country . The biggest thing I don't much like about The South is the
humidity . Swampers don't work well in 90% RH ...
And I'm betting that Steve's device is just a timer-actuated dump valve ,
probably tied to an inlet cutoff . Hmmm, I wonder if a sensor could be
rigged up to dump when a certain concentration/threshold of precipitable
compounds is reached . Probably be easy to program for someone into that
level of computing .

A swamp cooler is mostly worthless here with even 40% humility. I'm
still curious about this device. Don't get upset, just tell me what it
is. And where exactly is this "potato country" you grew up in.

Steve has yet to tell me what this device is, And I'd like to know.
Don't you live in East Memphis, Arkansas? Maybe I'm confused.

SteveB wrote:
I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water every
day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work and are worth the money?

Steve

I think it might be worth it. And where do you live?
I think the minerals will still build up on the pads. I had a unit in an
apartment. I did a little maintenance on it once in the 5 years I lived
there. I don't even think I shut the water off. It went to 17 degrees once.
That was in the high desert of ca. Low desert gets hotter. It brought down
the temp 20-25 degreesm with 20 % humidity with a small unit. Here in
Pittsburgh it's not going to work, but they still use misters on fans in
sports and in some open buildings.

Greg

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:18:09 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:17:11 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB
wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the
water every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices
that work and are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

He's talking about evaporative cooling units . They pump water
from a sump at the bottom over a fiber pad , then suck air thru
same pad to cool by evaporation . Most units will have 3 pads and
the outlet on the 4th side . Better ones will have a float valve
to maintain water level in the sump . What Steve is talking about
is a device that drains the sump daily , which probably helps keep
mineral deposits out of the pump and off the pads . FWIW Steve ,
you can probably use a light timer to actuate a solenoid daily and
save a wad of money . Use dual relays and a dashpot delay on the
end of cycle to let the supply water run a minute or two to rinse
the sump before the drain valve closes .

Jesus, Jose' and Maria! I'm familiar with swamp coolers. Steve and I
live in the same county, only miles apart. He may be talking about
his place in Utah, too. I doubt that, as his shop he built (from
several shipping containers) is most likely here where we live.
We've discussed swamp coolers here before.

All I was saying is that I'm not familiar with the device he talks
about. Shucks, a pet-cock valve will drain water, too. Maybe just
used in winter in Utah.

I'd like to see this "device" he asked about. I could learn
something.

Well exxxccuuuuuUUUuuuse me ! I didn't know , and the way your
question was worded ... Anyway , I grew up out there , a bit north
of "y'all" near Potato Country . The biggest thing I don't much like
about The South is the humidity . Swampers don't work well in 90% RH
... And I'm betting that Steve's device is just a timer-actuated
dump valve , probably tied to an inlet cutoff . Hmmm, I wonder if a
sensor could be rigged up to dump when a certain
concentration/threshold of precipitable compounds is reached .
Probably be easy to program for someone into that level of computing
.

A swamp cooler is mostly worthless here with even 40% humility. I'm
still curious about this device. Don't get upset, just tell me what it
is. And where exactly is this "potato country" you grew up in.

Steve has yet to tell me what this device is, And I'd like to know.
Don't you live in East Memphis, Arkansas? Maybe I'm confused.

I think what Steve is talking about is a dump valve to drain the water
from the sump . Might help slow down mineral buildup on the pads and in the
piping .
Tater country , heh . I grew up about 25 miles from the Utah/Idaho state
line in Box Elder county and the average humidity up there is more like
25-30% , swampers work great . Idaho is famous for it's Russet potatoes ...
You're not confused , I did live on the east side of the river or many
years , but we've moved . We now reside in a clearing in the woods in Stone
County Arkansas . I'm retired now , and run the machine shop part time on
whatever comes thru the door . I do manage to stay busy with the garden ,
chickens , orchard , and building a house .
--
Snag

On Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:39:53 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:


I think what Steve is talking about is a dump valve to drain the water
from the sump . Might help slow down mineral buildup on the pads and in the
piping .

I see. I was not aware of these devices - dump valve.

Tater country , heh . I grew up about 25 miles from the Utah/Idaho state
line in Box Elder county and the average humidity up there is more like
25-30% , swampers work great . Idaho is famous for it's Russet potatoes ...

I don't travel anymore but Idaho would be a beautiful place to visit,
from what I've seen in photos.

Oren wrote:

I was not aware of these devices - dump valve.

More water efficient than the traditional bleed valve that drains continuously.
Since swamp coolers are typically run in regions where drought is a concern,
they may be somewhat useful in reducing water use. Not convinced either solution
will prevent scale buildup. Just do a good job cleaning after each season.

On 6/5/2014 2:41 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work and
are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

--
When knee deep in alligators, remember to drain the swamp.

Once a day, they dump the entire tray of water, and reduce the buildup
of minerals in the water, hence, the pads don't mineralize as fast, and
the ph of the whole thing is altered so that the metal corrosion is
reduced. I still am placing an anode in there.

Steve

On 6/5/2014 8:07 PM, Oren wrote:
Steve has yet to tell me what this device is, And I'd like to know.
Don't you live in East Memphis, Arkansas? Maybe I'm confused.

Don't know the actual name right off, but it is a pump, very similar to
the cooler pump that dumps the water in the tray once a day to prevent
mineral buildup.

$40 or so.

Steve

On Thursday, June 5, 2014 1:28:39 PM UTC-7, SteveB wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump
the water every day worth the $40? Do they work?
Any other devices that work and are worth the money?

I live in Phoenix, where the water can be very hard, and
I don't think dump valves help. What helps is having the
swamp cooler made out of stainless steel, fiberglass, or
plastic, but I think all blower impellers are made of
galvanized steel.

Remember the evaporative cooling index, which shows how
cool a swamp cooler can make the air, for any given
combination of outdoor temperature and humidity. They
don't work very well above 20% RH.

I forgot to mention that swamp coolers seem to use just as much
electricity as air conditioners do, now that A/C efficiency is
so much higher than it was in the EER 7 days.

wrote:

I forgot to mention that swamp coolers seem to use just as much
electricity as air conditioners do, now that A/C efficiency is
so much higher than it was in the EER 7 days.

Not quite as much... Refrigerated air has a compressor and a fan that run in
cycles. Swamp coolers have a fan and a very small pump that run continuously.

Swamp coolers will always be cheaper to run, but given the limited water supply,
annual maintenance, sensitivity to humidity and relatively small temperature
drop, refrigerated air is definitely more comfortable and convenient.

SteveB wrote in
:

On 6/5/2014 2:41 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:28:39 -0700, SteveB
wrote:

I'm putting up two on my shop. Are the devices that dump the water
every day worth the $40? Do they work? Any other devices that work
and are worth the money?


Steve,

I'm not sure what devices you are talking about or how they work.
Perhaps evaporation in the hot summer will work just as well?

--
When knee deep in alligators, remember to drain the swamp.

Once a day, they dump the entire tray of water, and reduce the buildup
of minerals in the water, hence, the pads don't mineralize as fast,
and the ph of the whole thing is altered so that the metal corrosion
is reduced. I still am placing an anode in there.

Steve

You can buy a very cheap little fitting that goes in the water pump line
that permits a little hose to be attached and feed that out through the
tray drain. It slowly drains the tray as long as the pump is running.
That and water softener - a white block or a mesh bag with a white
chemical in it - in the tray helps me get by. A minimum of scraping to
prep the cooler this spring. I have very hard well water.


--
"Things would be a lot nicer if antique people were valued
as highly as antique furniture!" Anon

This is the best answer..
A small bleed valve that takes say 10% of the circulating water and dumps it out on the lawn.
This keeps the level of minerals from building up to no more than 10x the incomming water.

It has the same effect as the auto dump but is less expensive and more reliable and does in effect the same thing.
Mark

wrote:

This is the best answer..
A small bleed valve that takes say 10% of the circulating water and dumps it out on the lawn.
This keeps the level of minerals from building up to no more than 10x the incomming water.

It has the same effect as the auto dump but is less expensive and more reliable and does in effect the same thing.

There is no "best" answer, only tradeoffs. Bleed valves use a lot of water - far
more than than dump pumps. If water supply isn't a concern, then a bleed valve
might be the right choice.

That said, unless you are having problems getting a swamp cooler to run a
complete season, mineral buildup on the pads isn't really a problem that
requires either solution. Mineral buildup in the pan can be dealt with during
routine end of season maintenance with a mild acid solution.

On 6/8/2014 6:04 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
wrote:

This is the best answer..
A small bleed valve that takes say 10% of the circulating water and dumps it out on the lawn.
This keeps the level of minerals from building up to no more than 10x the incomming water.

It has the same effect as the auto dump but is less expensive and more reliable and does in effect the same thing.

There is no "best" answer, only tradeoffs. Bleed valves use a lot of water - far
more than than dump pumps. If water supply isn't a concern, then a bleed valve
might be the right choice.

That said, unless you are having problems getting a swamp cooler to run a
complete season, mineral buildup on the pads isn't really a problem that
requires either solution. Mineral buildup in the pan can be dealt with during
routine end of season maintenance with a mild acid solution.


After thinking $40, plus install, plus upkeep of hiccups, I think I'll
just put a tee on the main drain line, and run it an hour or so with the
drain totally open to drain all the liquid in the tub, plus flush it a
bit. We got BAD water here. All you can do is all you can do, and
that's all I can do. I estimate five years lifespan on the unit if I am
lucky. We have ag water and potable water. I think I should hook this
up to potable water, or I am going to have to add bleach or something.
I get snail shells in my control valves. It would be a booger to try to
find a clogged line in that bag of snakes.

Steve

Steve

On 6/8/2014 6:04 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
wrote:

This is the best answer..
A small bleed valve that takes say 10% of the circulating water and dumps it out on the lawn.
This keeps the level of minerals from building up to no more than 10x the incomming water.

It has the same effect as the auto dump but is less expensive and more reliable and does in effect the same thing.

There is no "best" answer, only tradeoffs. Bleed valves use a lot of water - far
more than than dump pumps. If water supply isn't a concern, then a bleed valve
might be the right choice.

That said, unless you are having problems getting a swamp cooler to run a
complete season, mineral buildup on the pads isn't really a problem that
requires either solution. Mineral buildup in the pan can be dealt with during
routine end of season maintenance with a mild acid solution.


I guess we come from different parts of the country. I have seen where
a crowbar, sandblaster, and muriatic acid would be laughed off.


Steve

SteveB wrote:

I guess we come from different parts of the country. I have seen where
a crowbar, sandblaster, and muriatic acid would be laughed off.

Same here, but that's usually because the only end of season maintenance is to
insert the damper plate and maybe throw a canvas cover over the unit. The
following spring they might put in new pads every other year.

If you do the correct maintenance every fall shutdown and replace the pads every
spring, you don't get that kind of buildup. People want maintenace free swamp
coolers and there ain't no such thing.

There is no "best" answer, only tradeoffs. Bleed valves use a lot of water - far

more than than dump pumps. If water supply isn't a concern, then a bleed valve

might be the right choice.




if the dump pump dumps say 20 gallons a day or you use a bleed valve and set it to bleed 20 gallons a day then the water usage and cleaning effect are about the same. Not exactly the same i grant you but close enough that it isn't worth the cost and complexity of the dump pump.

And if the bleed water goes to water the grass or garden, then it isn't really "wasted".

Yes you have to adjust the bleed valve carefully so the percentage of water being bled is low.

I had a long tube that led down to the garden at ground level and a valve on the end that i could adjust the flow without going on the roof.

Mark